Ep 94: Our 2022 Recap and 2023 Goals, with Mel Moss

Written By Katie Kusold

One of my best pals, Mel Moss, is back on the show for our annual New Year episode where we discuss our fishing goals from the last year, whether we achieved them, and what our goals for the upcoming year are. We cracked a few beers and had a great time catching up!

Waypoint TV

 

  • Katie

    You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. this is episode 94 with Mel Moss on our 2022 recap and 2023 goals. all right three two one

    Mel

    oh it got all over my computer board Cheers, Katie.

    Katie

    I hope your computer's okay.

    Mel

    It's just my work laptop. No big deal.

    Katie

    I just realized that instead of reaching to the camera with my beer, I reached to my microphone because I knew that's where the sound was going. But that wasn't really a cheers motion to you on the camera.What are you drinking?

    Mel

    I was just going to ask you that. That's a very important question. I'm actually drinking a beer from our friend's brewery in Minnesota. Oh, cool.

    Katie

    What kind of beer is it?

    Mel

    It's a German lager. 

    Katie

    nice I have a Hazer Tag which is a hazy IPA from Odell out here I like this one a lot we get it in the Costco mix pack or in a Costco mix pack 

    Mel

    nice that's the way to go 

    Katie

    well cheers yeah cheers again all right so I'm actually glad we followed through on this because last year we had wrapped up our like new year's resolutions which I think we did in like February or March we were a little delayed yeah but we but we talked about how we're gonna tune back in and when we said it There was a part of me that was like, okay. But then we're actually here doing it. So good for us. We're here to talk about whether we achieved our goals. Yeah, and where we're going this year.

    Mel

    This is the second annual chat, beers, and cheers in the new year. Chats, beers, and cheers.

    Katie

    I forgot you came up with that. Really roll off the tongue phrase for this.

    Mel

    Doesn't it, though? Yeah. And I would like to make a quick shout out. This I would like to dedicate to Mike. And any of the other listeners that like to listen to us chat about just random fishing stuff.

    Katie

    Well, I have no idea if people like these episodes or not, but I think I said it last time too, your episodes make up like a large percentage of my overall episodes. And Mike always raves about them. So that's all we need, really. That is. 

    Mel

    Yeah, we just need the one super fan, really. 

    Katie

    Well, he'll be listening as soon as it comes out, I assure you. He's probably listening through the walls right now.

    Mel

    Kind of getting a little preview.

    Katie

    Yep. Cool. Well, I'm going to let you start because I have three for each. Three goals from this past year that we'll talk about and three for next or for this coming year. And you said you have four. So I'll let you go first so we can alternate. 

    Mel

    Perfect. 

    Katie

    In case people didn't listen to the last time. Basically, the format is we're just going to go through the goals that we had set for ourselves, the fishing related goals we had set for ourselves for this year or for 2022 two, and then talk about whether we accomplished them or not and why we did or did not get around to accomplishing them, and then move into what we were planning for this year and what our goals are coming up for 2023. Does that sound good to you? 

    Mel

    Perfect. That sounds great. 

    Katie

    All right. I'll let you kick it off. Tell me what your goal was from last year and whether you accomplished it.

    Mel

    I do have to admit, and you'll admit this too, that we had to re-listen to our old podcast because we had to be reminded of exactly what our goals were.

    Katie

    Okay. So first goal for both of us for this coming year is to actually write them down and not just stumble into accomplishing them.

    Mel

    Right. I had them mentally. I had them mentally. I think I missed one in my head. I was like, I don't remember what one of them was. But the other ones I had mentally noted. However, what we didn't do is email each other with this list and hold each other accountable as we said we would.

    Katie

    Group goal for this year overall is to actually follow through on these things that we talk about that we're going to hold each other accountable via email. Actually write these down and post them somewhere that I see instead of just remembering two out of three of them.

    Mel

    I need them on sticky notes by my mirror when I'm brushing my teeth. I think that's the best way.

    Katie

    So we're going to write that as a group goal preemptively to accountability.

    Mel

    Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, so my first, I'm going to go through the order that I talked about them in the last podcast. And it's, it's really sad because I have to start with a goal that I didn't accomplish. 

    Katie

    Well, no, you only go up from there. 

    Mel

    That's true. So my first goal was, just to remind everyone, I live in Idaho, the Northern panhandle of Idaho. And so I kind of was talking a lot about my local goals last year. And just to remind everyone, my local radius is about three to four hours of drive time. So I wanted to explore a lot of local rivers. And one of them was the Blackfoot River near Missoula, Montana, which is about a three-hour drive for me. And I mentioned in the last podcast that we had potentially talked about Jerrett and myself, my husband Jerrett, getting a raft that would kind of entice us to go over to more of those Montana rivers and explore them. And the Blackfoot River is not really one because you and I fished it together. It's not really one that requires a raft necessarily. It would be fun, but it doesn't really require one. We did not end up getting a raft yet. And I did not end up getting to the Blackfoot River last year. And I have absolutely no good excuse for why. No good excuse. So I did get over to Rock Creek near Missoula and we fished that, which you drive right by the Blackfoot or at least the exit to go to the Blackfoot River. and I don't know why I didn't put that as a priority. I was like, let's just go back to Rock Creek. We love Rock Creek. And yeah, so no good excuse.

    Katie

    Okay, so question then. Had you thought about it? Like as you're driving past the Blackfoot, man, that was a goal, but we're just really in the mood to fish Rock Creek or did it not even occur to you that you had said that you were gonna do that and therefore you just went to the first place that you decided you wanted to fish?

    Mel

    It didn't even occur to me. So I think that's the goal that I kind of was blanking on. Um, and we, we decided to book this little A-frame cabin that we always stay at in, right near Rock Creek. It was just kind of a spur of the moment. Hey, let, you know, next weekend, let's try to get that A-frame and go to Rock Creek. So it was very much kind of spontaneous planning and, and, just a space on my end that I really wanted to get to the Blackfoot. But it was also a colder time of year. So we would have been camping along the tent camping along the Blackfoot versus this little A-frame. Anyways, so I think it was Easter, April. Yeah. Okay.

    Katie

    Well, I mean, of all the goals, I remember one of your other ones that I think is inherently more interesting. I don't remember what your third one is. I'm actually curious for you to remind me. But I feel like just fishing, like you know the blackfoot which you're close enough to montana that it's not a huge thing to go over there and do that like it's not you know the fact that you didn't do it it's not gonna be hard for you to accomplish it if you actually put a little bit of effort into it so yeah hopefully that'll come back around and and not be hard for you to to get in a future I don't know. no spoilers maybe a future goal

    Mel

    don't you be giving away 2023

    Katie

    I don't know what your goals are we haven't told each other any of our future goals so true all right great so I will also start with the one I did not accomplish because we can just get those out of the way because they're kind of boring like we didn't yeah and mine was I started off well but I had a goal of being more consistent about fly tying which I did start off the year strong I would go down to the basement and like tie a couple flights every day like I had said I was going to and I progressed but then like right after we talked, my semester started up and I've been taking the last two semesters, I've taken a pretty heavy load of classes. So I would often be up until like 10, 11 at night doing homework on the computer and my eyes would just be like burning and I just want to get away and go to bed because I have to wake up early the next morning and start all over again. So I started off strong and then it just kind of petered out. It was always the thing during the day that would get chopped if I ran out of time. You know, there's the things I need to do and then there's that. So yeah, that one it's this is the one I told you that I there was no real quantification of it it was just you know do more of this but I told you it was like really obvious to me that I hadn't accomplished it because I I kept it up for maybe like two two or three months where I would do it regularly and then it just kind of fell by the wayside so definitely didn't accomplish it but I made some progress and I started it so I'll give myself like a D plus on that

    Mel

    Wow. 

    Katie

    reaching for the stars. 

    Mel

    No kidding. Did you end up in those two or three months tying anything that challenged you that you were proud of?

    Katie

    I wouldn't say there was a ton of challenge because I still tie like very basic patterns. So I'm not doing anything. I'm not like spinning deer hair or anything. Okay. But I felt like I did. One thing I felt that I did well in that time was perfect patterns that I used to tie really ugly versions of. So I'd like, you know, make something that, you know, fish should probably eat, but it does not look good, you know, in your fly box. And I feel like I would tie enough of the same patterns over and over again. Like, you know, I could nail an RS2, like that kind of stuff where, you know, if I can tie a couple of flies really well, and at the end of the day, you know, if I can tie the flies that I really like using and tie those well, you know, that's, that is some sort of achievement forward. So I would like to get that. That wasn't really my goal, but I was able to get something from it at least.

    Mel

    Yeah. Well, that's way better than me. I don't tie. So maybe that's a future goal.

    Katie

    Yeah, I know. We'll find out. But that's really all I have to say on that. Like, it's not super exciting because I didn't accomplish it.

    Mel

    So I do have one additional question about that, or I guess comment more so, because you had said, you know, I really only need to go down and tie 10 minutes worth or something, get one or two flies tied. But to be fair to you, that when you're tired and that, and your day is wrapping up, that seems like a lot of energy still, because honestly, you probably would get caught up in what, probably more like 30 minutes. I feel like it's really hard. Yeah. It's really hard to just put it down after one or two, or even if you, you know, did finish one or two in 10 minutes, I feel like you're, you've gotten all the stuff out. You're, you know, kind of warming up, so to speak. Why not tie more?

    Katie

    And that's the big problem I encountered is I told myself I don't need to tie a lot. Like I can go down and tie for, you know, a couple of minutes. That works well with the really simple patterns because I can fit in some pretty simple patterns in 10 to 20 minutes. But as they get more complicated, suddenly it's going to take me most of that time to get through a single fly when I'm still new to that pattern. And also the setup. The setup is the biggest hurdle because if I want to tie a pattern that's different than the one I've been tying, you know, the day before and have all the stuff sitting there, I've got to go through and find everything I need and, you know, cut everything to length and all that. And that part could take the amount of time that I would like to dedicate to fly tying that day. And so it's kind of like, if I want to tie something different, I've got to go through that setup and dedicate more time to it. But then I also have to kind of switch my brain over to this new pattern, which again, when you're new, takes some time. Like it's not as easy as making a recipe you've made 10,000 times, you know, it's, it's still new to me. So I still have to kind of read through the steps and make sure I'm doing everything right and look at the pictures. So I think it'll get faster with time and that'll maybe allow me to fit more into a short time. And that'll, I guess we'll, time will tell on that. Time will tell.

    Mel

    Awesome. All right.

    Katie

    What's your number two?

    Mel

    So my number two was, we have the river that we go to. That's the closest for us about a half hour driver. So was the one that I was saying last year, we have all these spots, pull out spots that we fish the same zones every time we go. And if you drive way up that river road, there's a spot you can access the North Fork of that river with walk-in only access on this hiking trail. And I really had wanted to devote a weekend going back in there and exploring and possibly camping overnight, maybe two nights or so, and really getting deep within that wilderness area. We, I would say I give myself a C plus, B minus maybe on that goal. We ended up going, we did go. It was early season and I didn't really realize how terribly high the river was. So we hiked in. We didn't prep for an overnight. We kind of just thought it was going to be a scouting mission, a day hike. So we didn't have any overnight gear and we ended up realizing how high the river was. We didn't get to get in very far because you have to cross the river multiple times to really, you get cliffed out. So you have to cross and I'm talking big cliffs. Have you, have you ever been to Horseshoe Bend in Arizona? 

    Katie

    I haven't, but I've seen pictures. 

    Mel

    Yeah. So where the Colorado curves way around, I called it our own little Horseshoe Bend because there was this area where the river made that same shape and you're looking at it from hundreds of feet up on this cliff. It was so beautiful. Uh, but you kind of have to then scramble your way down to the left and then cross to get further back. Anyway, we fished probably a half a day or so. Uh, Jerrett caught one cutthroat. I think, I was hanging out with Maddie more of the time, but and I just it was so high there were really really limited spots that you could fish so and then we didn't end up going back the rest of the summer summer got away from me so that's still kind of kind of on the to-do list but at least we we scouted it and we kind of know what to expect getting back in there a little bit

    Katie

    what was the verbiage of your goal for that because I feel like if you went there, if your goal is to go there and fish it and you did that, then I say you accomplished the goal. And like, there's a caveat that it wasn't very good, which is similar to something I'm going to say too. But like, I wouldn't sell yourself short if you did what you went there to do.

    Mel

    Well, my verbiage had two overnight, two nights in the backcountry back there. So I, yeah, I feel like I shorted myself there.

    Katie

    Got it. Okay. Yeah. So you get the B minus then, but I'm going to give it to you. I think you, I think you accomplished it. I think you accomplished it for the purposes of this call. 

    Mel

    Perfect. I'll take it. 

    Katie

    You did it.

    Mel

    Thanks teacher. Giving me a better grade than I gave myself. I like it. second one,

    Katie

    Cool. Well, my I'll do, I'm just going to follow you, follow you, kind of goal for goal because we had some similar, similar in that my second one is also location. And the way I had phrased it was I wanted to go to one of two lakes, that one of my buddies had told me about one had big brook trout, one had big cutthroats and you had wrongly predicted that I would go to the brook trout lake. 

    Mel

    Yeah. You're the brook trout lady. 

    Katie

    Yes. But alas, I went to the cutthroat lake. So, I did, I accomplished it. Um, but the fishing sucked. So I, I'm giving myself the accomplishment of going there and I'm treating it almost as like, I've written this lake off. I'm not going back because the fishing wasn't bad. You know, this is a lake. I wasn't subject to high water or something like that. It was that there had been, like a fungal infection that spread across all the fish. And so there were fish there. We didn't see any of the size that was reported. Like my had mentioned cutthroats of like 24 inches. And I think the biggest one I saw was maybe 18 inches, which is still nothing to like scoff at. But I only saw one, maybe one or two fish even close to that. Most were like 10 to 12 inches. And they all had just like a white fungus growing all over their body and were all slimy and looked like they were covered in a film. And Mike and I went up for, think two nights and we caught one fish the entire time I caught one like tenant one 10 inch cut throat 

    Mel

    were they just slow and lethargic and dying?

    Katie

     they moved around not unusually like it they looked fine but they just wouldn't acknowledge a fly it was like they were blind to anything you'd throw we threw everything we could think of and I finally cut that one on like a stripped tears your nymph or something. But they were rising occasionally to what, I don't know, and mostly in the middle of the lake. I don't know if maybe there was some fish out there that were not suffering from the same thing because it was too big to cast out that far. But yeah, I mean, it was fun in that we had the lake to ourselves the entire three days we were there. And I want to say we may have been there over a holiday weekend. Maybe not. Maybe it was just a a week maybe it was just a weekend in Colorado and I kind of associate all of those with being like a holiday weekend because there's people everywhere but we didn't see a single person the entire like three days two nights we were up there so it was a win it was fun it gave me the chance to write it off and say I don't need to go back there and now I can focus on the other lake that was on my list so yes yes I achieved it but kind of anticlimactic at the end

    Mel

    sure and is it in a pretty non-popular area or why do you think that there was nobody else up there

    Katie

    it is a less trafficked area of Colorado it's not I'm not gonna give a what range it's in but it's it's a six six to seven mile hike in so it weeds people out and there were other things that you could do along the way so I think people would do a lot of hiking on that trail and stop before they get to the lake.

    Mel

    Okay. Because yeah, I remember you, I remember you saying the brook trout lake is the one that's shorter and doesn't require a whole lot of effort. Is that right?

    Katie

    I think so. I don't really remember how far that one is. I don't know if I ever actually looked, but this one was long enough that it would keep out basically all day traffic and it's just not a heavily trafficked area in general. So there just happened to be no one backpacking there when we were there. I think it's just kind of the luck of the draw. Right on. But yeah, that's that one. What's your third one?

    Mel

    All right. The third one, is this the one you can't remember what it was? Do you need a refresher?

    Katie

    No, that's the one that I knew. This is the one I knew. 

    Mel

    This is the one you know. Okay. 

    Katie

    Well, oh, wait. I don't know. You have two left. I don't know which one this is. 

    Mel

    Yeah, I have two left. 

    Katie

    Okay, so I don't know which one you're about to say.

    Mel

    Okay. So the third goal for 2022 that I had was to go back to British Columbia and fish.

    Katie

    Okay, not this one then. I remember your last one.

    Mel

    Okay. So I wanted to go back where Jerrett and I got engaged and fish it again because it's been, what, seven years, I guess, since going there. And to be fair, COVID took a few of those years, a couple of those years away from us from even being able to. And then we also lived in Arizona, another couple of those. but it still seems like way too long we let go by between getting engaged up there and having the most insane bull trout fishing experience I've ever had and going back this year. So we took a couple of our friends who moved out here recently from Wisconsin, and they're in the early stages. They fly fished a handful of times, I would say, to where they're kind of in that phase of getting really amped up about it, getting all their gear, kind of accumulating everything and getting really excited about going. So we had planned it a couple of months in advance, got an Airbnb, which was really cool. This guy rented out an RV right on his property across the road from the river. So it was kind of really rural, really beautiful area. And we had gorgeous weather. It was sunny. I think we fished the Bull Trout River two days. And then there was another river we went to a third day. But unfortunately, so the bull trout, the bullies were there. Jerrett caught one. But and we saw them in the river in certain parts, you know, like we come up, we came up to this one bend, really deep, slow pool. and there were, I think, eight hanging out, just chilling in there. And we worked that pool for, I bet you, over two hours, all of us switching off, throwing super deep nymph rigs, streamers at them. I guarantee my streamers went in front of their faces like many times. I was, it was really frustrating. They just weren't. And I know that about bullies, like they're, they can be really temperamental and just you have to hit them on the right day but I just we had that experience if anyone went and watched the best catch a fly fishing proposal did you have it on repeat when you were doing your fly tying?

    Katie

    I was just thinking when I when I listened to that episode back and I realized I don't know if I linked it in the notes like I said I was going to so if I didn't I will I'm gonna make a note to link it in this one in case anyone couldn't you know type the words in

    Mel

    I know I think I think we said it enough times for people to remember it well anyways after that first trip we had there which nothing will compare to it was I think we caught 18 or something in one day anyway so this trip was I think a little bit for me the fishing wasn't great but I I have a feeling it was because I was, we were kind of, I don't know, sharing the spots. It was kind of far and few between. You had to walk a long ways along the river and then you get to a decent run. And I'd want my friends to step in and fish. And they caught a decent amount of cutthroat, but they really weren't big. They were very normal size for what I would consider normal for around here. to whereas in my memory, I remember them being, you know, upwards of 16 inches on the lower end and upwards. So I think they were maybe, I don't know, 12, 14, something like that, 14 and a half, maybe. But yeah, a little throwback. So yeah, it was great. I was so happy to be back in that area just because it's such a beautiful and remote spot. But I do remember talking to our Airbnb host who also fishes a lot. And he said that that area has been getting a lot more pressure over the past few years and the bull trout are being really finicky. So and just all the fish in there, really. So it was, I don't know, the third river we went to kind of on our way home actually fished the best. So the one that, yeah.

    Katie

    What was in that? Like what kind of fish were in that river? 

    Mel

    Those were mostly cutties as well. 

    Katie

    So you accomplished that goal. It just like didn't turn out as well as you had envisioned it. But I mean, we can't judge fishing goals based on how well the fishing went because that's just not something that you can necessarily control. So yeah, you definitely accomplished that goal.

    Mel

    Check, check. Yeah. And those location ones are, it's like a, did you do it or did you not? So those are easy versus more of the concept goals or I want to learn more about this or that. Those are harder to quantify. But yeah.

    Katie

    Well, I'm glad he made it up there, especially since he'd been trying to get back for so long. Yeah. Even if fishing wasn't good, I'm sure just being back in that place where you got engaged and everything is just fun for its own sake.

    Mel

    It was. It really was. And it gave us the motivation to plan more Canada trips. Just talking to locals and saying and them telling us, oh, you got to go check out this river, actually. Oh, you got to go up to this spot. It's so beautiful. If you think this spot's gorgeous, you need to go up there. So we have more on our list now because of going there again and talking to people. So that's really cool.

    Katie

    Now, when you say locals, do you mean people that live within like three to four hours? 

    Mel

    OK, let me rephrase that. Canadians. 

    Katie

    OK, great. So my last one. Oh, are you done? 

    Mel

    Yeah. 

    Katie

    Okay. I want to make sure I didn't cut you off. My last one was catching a pike on the fly. And I did accomplish this goal. I didn't accomplish it how I had expected to. So I didn't specify that it had to be caught a certain place. But I did say in the last episode how I intended to go about it. And it's not how I ended up doing it. I actually caught it with the Sasquatch crew over the summer. and it I do want to get more deliberate about catching pike on the fly because the one thing I was disappointed about I had I mean it was a ton of fun it was a beautiful fish we kept it and fried it up but the only thing that I kind of regret is that I wasn't necessarily fishing for pike in like a pike fishy kind of way I went to the outlet or I guess no the inlet I went to the inlet, this reservoir. And I was kind of trying to catch big trout hanging out in that area, but I knew that there were pike around and that I might catch one. So I threw on kind of like a big woolly bugger, woolly bugger type fly. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was kind of like, I'm guessing I'm going to catch trout. I'm kind of trying to catch trout, but I know that a pike's a possibility. So I wasn't fishing like a big pike fly with like a wire leader. I wasn't doing deliberately pike fishy things. I just knew that it was a possibility. And it turns out the only fish I caught was a pike. So it worked out. And so I definitely accomplished it. Happy with it. I was kind of secretly hoping I would catch a pike. But if I were to kind of mold this goal, I'm not listing pike again for this coming year. But if I were to, I would kind of rephrase it to say like, I want to deliberately go out, fish for pike in a more standard pike fishing kind of way and more reliably catch them instead of like I'm going out for trout but I know there's yeah and I know that they can kind of overlap with the flies you're using um sure definitely accomplished it but I'll give myself an a minus on that

    Mel

    all right I like that

    Katie

    I'll give myself an A if I go and do it more deliberately 

    Mel

    how big was this pike 

    Katie

    maybe 20 to 22 inches something like that we didn't I don't know if I measured it but it was somewhere in that range.

    Mel

    Nice. Pretty good. Do you remember what tippet you were using? Was it like, 3x?

    Katie

    probably like 5X? No, you're right. I probably was not using 5X if I had a stream around. I probably, yeah, either 3 or 4X. 

    Mel

    That's so impressive. 

    Katie

    Yeah. You know, every pike I've ever caught has been like that because I've caught a lot of pike on spin gear. And generally when I'm fishing, kind of the same way. I don't usually deliberately target pike in a pike fishing kind of way. I've caught them mostly fishing in places that I know have pike and smallmouth bass and walleye and all these other things that can all kind of eat the same thing. You know, you throw on like a three or four inch long lure and you might catch one of many, many species. And every pike I've ever caught and a muskie have all been caught like without a wire leader, without anything special, just like basically fishing with bass fishing gear and having it happen organically, I guess, which is kind of cool when it happens. But also like I like that deliberateness about doing everything right and getting the result you wanted versus just kind of stumbling into these things. But yeah, all the pike I've caught, I'm sure I've broken pike off that I didn't even know. I didn't even know what they were because they were gone before I knew. But I haven't had like terrible luck landing pike without like line designed for that. I guess if they get hooked in the right part of the mouth, like you're going to avoid the teeth. So right. Maybe I've just got lucky.

    Mel

    I can't remember. I think it's been several years now since I've since I caught that pike on the fly and I was targeting them. We were in the boundary waters and I don't know. I believe I had a wire leader on. I'm pretty sure. because, and then I used one of those pike flies that are like, I don't know, six, eight inches long, something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

    Katie

    See, I like using those intermediate flies though, even though I want to be more deliberate about it. I like knowing that I could catch like anything, you know, I like throwing on a two to three inch bugger and knowing, hey, there's big trout in here. There's pike in here. Like whatever's around might eat this. I like that more than I'm throwing on this eight inch fly. And now I'm really limiting myself to only the fish that are big enough to which you get to that point when you've caught enough of a certain species to not care. Like you want to catch just the biggest, but I haven't caught enough pike on any style of gear to want to only catch trophy pike. Like I just like catching pike when I do. Yeah. I like catching big trout. I like catching it all. So I don't, I like to kind of keep my options open.

    Mel

    And it's kind of, I mean, that's part of the fun of fishing. I, whenever there's multiple species in a river, I'm always so excited to see what it is.

    Katie

    Yep. Same. I like to be surprised.

    Mel

    Yeah.

    Katie

    Cool. And if I'm real lucky, it's a whitefish. I'm really, really lucky. A master angler whitefish at that. A master angler. I got the brook trout one, too. 

    Mel

    You did? I was going to ask you that. Awesome. 

    Katie

    I got it hanging on my wall right now for all to see.

    Mel

    And that patch, that's the same as the whitefish one?

    Katie

    It's the same. That's so disappointing.

    Mel

    I know.

    Katie

    They need to put a little extra effort into at least making it different for each year. I don't even need to have the specific fish on it. it just needs to be that if you got one this year, it looks, you know, this year's design. Yeah. So just if anyone from CPW is listening, redo your patches to be new every year.

    Mel

    So people keep wanting them. All right. 

    Katie

    What's your last? 

    Mel

    All right. My final 2022 goal is I had wanted to catch a jungle perch because I was going to Guam to visit my brother in May. and so I deliberately packed my five piece little three four weight rod and yeah do you have one of those Elkhorn?

    Katie

    no 

    Mel

    I love it because it's a five piece so anyways very packable and I packed a pretty healthy assortment of flies as well because I had no idea what they were going to eat. And I remember how we talked about that couple on YouTube that, it was really the only YouTube videos that I could find on Guam jungle perch, was that couple. And so I watched some of those a little bit more after our last episode to kind of prep for what they might, what I might need to use to catch these guys. And, they were actually making some lures out of bottle caps. They're like these jungle perch for no rhyme or reason. I can't, we cannot figure out what they're, what they eat. You know, like some days we'll be able to catch certain them or we'll be able to catch one or a few or in other days, nothing. And you see them, you're seeing them in these pools below waterfalls and everything like that. So I was a little, I was a little unsure as to how or what I was going to try to catch them with. So I packed some streamers, small streamers, dry fly patterns, just the standard ones included ants and stress drills. And then, I packed poppers like bass poppers. I just like threw a bunch of nymphs in there. I wasn't sure. So we ended up going on a couple, I think, actually, I think it was just one hike. Um, and the water levels were really low inland as well. Um, and so my brother was a little skeptical if we were even gonna find them or find good spots to try to fish for them or, or whatnot. And he said, unfortunately, we only had that one hike to have the opportunity to do so. So, packed up all my stuff and we get down into this jungle ravine. Um, and the water was a trickle where the normal river is. And I'm like, Oh no, no. So hiked along it, get down to this below this waterfall. And sure enough, there was a ton of them in this pool. Um, probably more than usual cause they all have to cluster in that spot. Yep. And so I thought, oh, gosh, this is gonna be so easy. There's so many of them. And I think even when we arrived, they were maybe I think they were rising or eating something off the surface. Anyways, gentle jungle perch, for sure, because we put our feet in and they started they started nibbling like you said they did. 

    Katie

    They did. 

    Mel

    Yes. I mean, very they are gentle nibbles, but they did. Yeah. 

    Katie

    So it's that's funny that they'll eat. you, but not what you want to throw at them. 

    Mel

    I know. I know. And they're startling because you're just dangling your toes in there, wiggling your toes. Or even when we were at a different waterfall and just kind of like, you know, playing around in the water and it was kind of murky water and we're like, ah, what was that? So anyways, I cannot remember. Actually, I didn't catch any in there and we gave it a really good shot. I think we were there for 30 minutes or so. And I kept, casting a certain fly up just a couple of times. And I knew that, you know, I'd run my streamer by some, or they had seen my dry fly on the surface or whatever. So I kept switching it up. I probably switched up my fly 10 plus times that particular pool. And I was bummed because I'm like, this is maybe my only shot at them and I can see them. And it was a big goal for me just because it was a destination goal you know and so we kept going down stream and ended up finding this other smaller waterfall cascade with a pool that had a few in them and finally I ended up throwing on like a purple sparkly ant one of my 

    Katie

    of course it was purple 

    Mel

    I know I think it's one of the ones I sent you for your, your Christmas, fly exchange last year. 12 flies of Christmas. 12 flies of Christmas. Yeah. We should touch on that. Um, if people want fun ideas with their fishy fly fishing friends for Christmas anyways. Uh, so yeah. Um, I ended up casting that one probably five, six times in this little tiny jungle perch hit it out of nowhere. I was actually so surprised 

    Katie

    how tiny is tiny 

    Mel

    I think he he was maybe three to four inches palm sized yeah and they're really pretty got these fun like black spots on their fins and I think actually I flung him behind me because I was so shocked that he hit I think it was one of those

    Katie

    that's what happens to those little guys I know you know I don't I don't know enough about jungle perch to like say anything educated so you know this is just me brainstorming but I feel like when I picture these perch in what I assume is kind of a remote area probably don't get fished very often if this one couple on youtube is the only resource you could find that they don't all attack whatever lands on the water like fish in a tank being fed fish food like that's what I picture happening and especially with my only experience being I get in the water and they all rush to me and start nibbling like they seemed kind of ravenous and I just picture this clear pool food occasionally falls in and they just like swarm and so I was really surprised to hear that it was difficult to get one to take anything I know but I don't know anything about them like this is just what I'm picturing in my mind

    Mel

    that's what I pictured too when we got to that first pool I thought oh easy this this goal's getting checked off immediately

    Katie

    well you still got to check it off I mean any perch is a good perch I don't care if it's three or four inches long

    Mel

    thanks Katie there were slightly larger ones in there but listen I was very happy with that as soon as I caught that one I was like yes one of my goals for 2022

    Katie

    is there any part of you that wants to go back and try for more or is that is that kind of like a ship that sailed

    Mel

    I'm so satisfied with Just that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Honestly, if I were to go back, it would be more of the deep sea fishing that I would have interest in.

    Katie

    Oh, okay. That's surprising. Would you be fishing with a fly rod or would this be like a trolling or, I don't know, dropping bait down deep or, you know, what would you be doing?

    Mel

    More trolling. My brother had a boat that we went out and did some really, I mean, we were like 11 miles offshore doing some chasing the bird flocks type of fishing okay and trolling and we ended up hooking into a wahoo and we saw it it was right next to the boat and it snapped the line as soon as it got right next to the boat

    Katie

    did you catch other stuff or or was that like the only thing

    Mel

    that was the only thing I think we put two I think we were out on the boat three days but they weren't full days because you get out there really, really early and then it gets really hot. And, but yeah, we, we put in quite a bit of time and, we heard from other fishermen around the area that my brother knows that it was really tough fishing that week. So that was, I mean, reassuring that we weren't just the only ones getting, pretty much skunked.

    Katie

    So I feel like you had some like tough trips this year. Like you went out, I think you went out with your dad at one point and you said the fishing was just like kind of lackluster. And then this one, like a lot of like going places and it was okay, but not like what you would want it to be.

    Mel

    Yep. Yep. We actually met up with Rebecca. Um, and that was one of the rivers around here. And my parents were with us for that one. And yeah, I just was a little bit bummed about the fishing there because I talked it up so much. Cause that was the river that I first introduced to fly fishing and we caught 50 cutties within a matter of an afternoon. Wow. And so, yeah, it was yeah I don't know it we caught fish but I also think my parents it's a bummer to say but we've gotten to Wyoming and they have that size of trout in mind

    Katie

    yeah your parents need to go other places to like know what a normal size trout is like

    Mel

    however they did fish a fair amount in rocky mountain national park you know when we were out there

    Katie

    okay that'll definitely bring their expectations down to reality

    Mel

    I know I know I just think that every their their big fly fishing outings in the past years in recent history have been Wyoming and so yeah they did want to catch other species and they were really excited about the prospect to catch the West Slope cutthroat out here. And so we did that and they were very excited about it. 

    Katie

    Oh, that's good. 

    Mel

    Yeah.

    Katie

    You got to tailor your expectations to like what, or not your expectations, but just like what you're going to get out of it. And maybe that's not always the biggest fish, but you can at least find something to look forward to. 

    Mel

    Right. 

    Katie

    Cool. So do you have four of this year's goals too, or just three? 

    Mel

    So I have, I have three and a half.

    Katie

    what the hell

    Mel

    I just feel like the oh I actually do have one more thing to add before we jump into looking ahead okay looking forward you may I remind you had harassed me into setting one additional goal for 2022 and that was to come out to Colorado and guess what checkity check I did it

    Katie

    that's true I was thinking about that and I was like Mel didn't even come out here and I was like you totally did. I just assumed you hadn't, but then I was like, oh no, we definitely fished together.

    Mel

    We did. And that was so fun to be fishing again together. And I just love, you know, not just the fishing itself, but the whole, the whole thing that accompanies it when I'm with you. Right. So the camping part, the, just like having a beer and chatting on a rock part, Like all of it. So it was really fun to do that again, finally.

    Katie

    And the fishing was pretty good. But honestly, if we hadn't fished at all, I would have still had the best time. Like, because it was you, me and a bunch of other like old guides, they got back together. And I was like so much more concerned with just like hanging out with people and like looking at old photos together and talking about stuff. And like occasionally someone would pick up a rod and take some casts. But for the most part, it was just hanging out. So yeah, that was like definitely one of my favorite weekends this past year.

    Mel

    Me too. I'm so glad we did it.

    Katie

    So we'll put a bow on 2022. And overall, we passed. You know, I think we got a passing grade. I got a D plus on one. And I think I gave myself an A minus on the other. And I'm going to give myself an A minus for both of the ones that I accomplished. But they weren't in the way that I had envisioned them. But I did accomplish both. So what were your grades, again, of yourself?

    Mel

    Let's see. I had like a, I had an F and then, and then like a B minus and then an A and an A.

    Katie

    All right. All right. I think we passed. I think we passed the class.

    Mel

    Yeah. All right. I mean, like you said, you know, some of the, some of the fishing wasn't as I envisioned, but that wasn't part of my, I have to remember that it wasn't part of my goal to have the best, the best fishing, the biggest fish, that type of thing. It was to get to these places and experience them.

    Katie

    So I feel like our goal should never be like, unless your goal is like, I really want to catch a fish over a certain size and you're going to really work toward that throughout the year. The goal should never be like, go there and have a great, like fishing experience. Or I guess, no, that's fine. You can have a good experience, but like you can't have your goal be, I'm going to go there and have a killer day of fishing. Like that, that can't be something that you're planning for. It has to be like, I'm going to go there and let's see what happens. 

    Mel

    Right. Yeah. 

    Katie

    All right. Well, I'll let you kick off the goal since you have three and a half and I have three, whatever that means. Okay. Are you starting with a whole one or a half one?

    Mel

    So, all right. So I'll start with just saying that the first couple that I came up with for this upcoming year are again, one of a couple of those goals that it's hard to say, yep, I did that with, you know, catching one certain fish, going one certain place or having like one certain weekend. Um, these are more of things that I want to kind of, you know, consciously devote time and thought to and try to learn or whatever. So, so I'll start with my first one. And that's that I, I would like to, I think I'm coming back to a phase in my fishing, fly fishing career that I get a lot more joy, not more because I love catching fish for myself, but I am getting so much joy from introducing people who are newer to it again, to this sport and getting them really involved in it and seeing the hype that they have for it. Um, and I had some of those, I think this is kind of stemming from having a couple of those experiences this past year. Um, and on a separate occasion, I went backpacking to an alpine lake with my dad. This was not the river fishing with my mom as well. And we brought my little, my little five piece again. And there we saw a fish rising. I knew they were a little tiny. I didn't know what they were, but I knew they were teeny tiny. And I was like, you know what? This is going to be really fun just to like practice long casting with my dad. Cause we had this really nice wide open rock we could cast on and have the longest back cast ever. And so we were just having a ball, just seeing like how far we could cast this dry fly out. And the fish weren't eating like our fly. I was like, whatever, let's just practice. This is so much fun. And my dad was having so much fun. He's like, that was such a good cast. I'm so proud of that one. Or like, oh, that was shit. So we kind of took turns. And finally, my dad actually did end up catching one. They're tiny little brookies. And it was really cute and really fun. And but, you know, it was just really fun seeing the him get so into it. And I had the same kind of experience with my friend Sam, the one that came to British Columbia with us. We also hiked up to an alpine lake. And that one that afternoon, there was nothing happening on the surface. And I think I saw two fish swim by. But I just set up the fly rod and we took turns casting. And she was like, oh, my gosh, I forgot how fun this is. And it's just like, you know, it's the whole thing. It's the going somewhere you, you know, you're taken to these places because there's a potential to fish there that you may not otherwise go to. And then the casting and all of the things that go along with it and not just the fish, the catching the fish. So I have some friends who have expressed interest in, you know, kind of just in passing of Mel, I'd really like to go out and fly fish with you. Can we please make that happen? And I feel like those are always those comments that it's like, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But then nothing ever comes of it. You know, it's like you're at a party or a get together and somebody you're talking about what you did this summer. And then they just say, oh, you know what? I really actually like to do that. I've seen, you know, I've been seeing all your pictures and I want to go. So try to take like three people who are newer to fly fishing out this summer and really like give them the experience. Maybe that would be a good goal. I don't know. So three people specifically, I'm going to write it down for you. Okay. Yeah. Let's do it. They don't have to be like brand new, right? It can be like my friend, Sam. 

    Katie

    No, no. Just like take three people who want to learn more. 

    Mel

    Okay. 

    Katie

    Is that what you're going for?

    Mel

    I think so. Yeah. Cause we have a friend, Tyler, who has gone again a handful of times. But he mentioned to Jerrett and myself that he wants to go with us. So I think that'd be like a fun goal to set up a weekend with him deliberately to say, hey, we're taking you to this river. We're going to camp. We're going to fish. We're going to have a blast.

    Katie

    That's a very selfless goal. Good job. 

    Mel

    Hey, thanks. But I get something out. It's actually a little bit selfish in that I get like I get reward out of it.

    Katie

    Wow, you're so selfish.

    Mel

    It's like that guiding.

    Katie

    I know, I know. It's flipped so quickly. Now I just, you're doing this all for you.

    Mel

    But I mean, you know, remember back to the guiding days when you're like, oh, I just like to go to the river by myself right now. Yeah. I've had enough years in between where I'm like ready to spread the love again.

    Katie

    Oh, I've hardened my shell even more. only I will say I do I do enjoy teaching people who are newer I don't I don't love the people who want to go but don't want it that badly so they're like not paying that much attention they're doing it as more of like a novelty experience that's that's what I've kind of moved beyond where I need to know you're like serious about wanting to learn because I want to know that when I'm showing you things you're actually engaged and like absorbing the information That person I will talk to all day long. No problem. But I've had enough people that are like texting while I'm trying to tell them something and I'm like, eh, and I'm losing interest in this.

    Mel

    Are you serious? Oh my gosh. You need to live, you need to bring them to places where there's Zippo zero cell service.

    Katie

    Well, I've done like, I've like done casting things for people that like are in town, you know?

    Mel

    Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. Sure. So yeah, for me, it's more like really good friends that I know are, we're going to have a blast doing it and it's going to be hilarious and all sorts of things. 

    Katie

    For sure. Well, that's very altruistic of you. I'm proud of your first goal.

    Mel

    Wow. Thanks, Katie. Thanks. I didn't mean to like get your approval in that way, but you know, it's an extra bonus.

    Katie

    Yeah, which selfish goal am I going to list?Which goal that's all about me am I going to say next? I'm going to do the one that feels the most like a cop-out first, so I don't end on that. So I want to renew the fly tying goal for this coming year. I will say, because it's a bit of a cop-out, and I'm just being like, well, I didn't do it last time, so I'm going to do it now. I'm going to tack on another kind of like half. So instead of your one half that you're going to tack on to the end of your three, I'm going to tack on two half goals together and make them one count as one. 

    Mel

    So confusing. 

    Katie

    Okay. So listen here. We're confusing ourselves. Yeah. No, I feel like fly tying. There's not much to say about it. I'd like to try again and do more of it, but because that feels like a cop out, I'm also going to say, and this is also a bit of a cop out goal, but I tried to catch a splake this year. I tried a handful of times and I couldn't, I didn't get one. I saw some in the water. Like there was a lake we went to that had a rock. So I know they're in there and it had a rock that I could stand on and look down in the water. And it was very obvious which fish were cutthroats and which ones are splake. And those are the two species that are in there. And I tried and tried and could not get a splake. Now I know I'm going to be really busy with this upcoming year, getting married and everything. So I'm not going to make the goal catching a splake because that seems like it might actually be too lofty. but I have the goal of trying like trying one one new spot for Splake and maybe it won't work out but I'm going to kind of combine that with the fly tying and say that these two are kind of like half goals where fly tying feels kind of boring like a continuation of last year and trying a location for Splake also seems kind of boring but like I'm going to combine those two and make those kind of two half goals that I'm going to try to do but accomplishing them shouldn't be very hard or very exciting really. Because the goal isn't to catch a splake, even though I'd like to. The goal is to get myself out to a new spot and see what happens out there. Because I haven't put enough time in yet to catch one. And I'd like to just make myself put a little bit more time into that.

    Mel

    Are you combining that with trying to use a fly that you have tied? Because then you're really putting that goal together.

    Katie

    Man, fine.

    Mel

    Awesome.

    Katie

    It's one cohesive goal. Screw your half goals.

    Mel

    hey can we go back to something you said during that conversation no you're getting married this summer what 

    Katie

    it's true 

    Mel

    everybody congratulate Katie yay

    Katie

    well it's gonna come up again in the next school so we can talk about it we can talk about it in the next school

    Mel

    oh okay all right 

    Katie

    all right are you ready to move on 

    Mel

    I am ready 

    Katie

    let's hear your number two out of three and a half 

    Mel

    okay so my number two is another vague goal 

    Katie

    how do you say vague 

    Mel

    what? 

    Katie
    you pronounce vague weird 

    Mel

    oh it's because I'm from Minnesota 

    Katie

    say it again. continue on what you were gonna say 

    Mel

    I will not say that word again the remainder of this podcast absolutely not No. This is a goal that's a little hard to see if I've accomplished it or not. I would like to, believe it or not, the sector of fly fishing that is entomology, I don't have a whole lot of knowledge in. And I want to learn more and devote more time and energy and thought to it. because I feel like I'm very much of a, I have my flies that I are just my go-tos, right? And I always know that they're going to probably work whenever in doubt. And so instead of me being like, oh, those are my backups for when I try to match the hatch and it's not working, I just like go to them. Yeah. So, so I feel like, you know, I listened to the podcast and I can't remember the gentleman's name that you talked to 

    Katie

    Rick Hafele, 

    Mel

    Rick. Yes. I listened to that and I was really intrigued because it's, it's just one of those areas that I don't know much about. And so whether it be me, you know, picking up a book or listening to some podcast, more podcasts about it. Um, something like that. I'd like to just learn more about it and then put it into action. So when I get to a river, you know, maybe devoting 10 minutes or so, just kind of looking around and trying to figure out, you know, it'd be really fun to go and say, Hey, this morning, I think we're gonna, I think we've got like size 16 PMDs. So, you know, that's what I'm gonna, that's what I'm gonna deliberately take out of my box. Um, and I've just really had that, never had that knowledge or, not desire because I'd, I'd love to, but it's just another, it seems like a very overwhelming part of fly fishing, to turn over rocks and know what I'm seeing and looking at.

    Katie

    So now, how do you think that'll affect your desire to go straight to a purple tungsten salvation? 

    Mel

    Like I'm going to have to put like a lock box. 

    Katie

    Okay. Okay. So like A breaking case of emergency? 

    Mel

    Yeah. 

    Katie

    How long until it's an emergency? Like how many hours do you have to fish unsuccessfully trying to match the hatch before you break the glass? 

    Mel

    Well, what if that is matching the hatch? 

    Katie

    You're just going to convince yourself every day that purple tungsten salvations are hatching.

    Mel

    No, it's like I'm going to try to see if there's a dry fly I can use. But when all else fails, something purple. It doesn't even have to be a purple tungsten salvation.

    Katie

    purple haze. I did send you so you already referenced it so I'll reference it again that we every Christmas we send each other a dozen flies of our choosing so we'll go to the shop pick out a dozen flies that look juicy and send them to the other person and I think half the box I sent you this year was purple because I will say I wasn't actually really trying to go out of my way for it but the shop I was at happened to have a ton of purple flies like I feel like it hard for me to escape them

    Mel

    you know what the shop that I've gotten your flies out the past couple of years it's north 40 fly shop they have a ton of purple too and I gravitate towards them obviously yeah same and yeah I'm like oh Katie must not have a lot of purple in her box let's hook her up

    Katie

    meanwhile it's like all I have. I have your flies right here I think I have your flies right here.

    Mel

    Nice. So you gave me only like three that are purple. Here's what I like that they're doing nowadays. They have the parachute that's got the different colors. It's not just white.

    Katie

    Oh, yeah. I saw that when I grabbed that one for you. I love those. You – oh, no, sorry. That's different. I'm not going to go through all these flies and describe them over audio for people. But, yes. I'm glad that we both have each other's dozen flies on hand, despite the fact that these were received like a month ago. 

    Mel

    I know. 

    Katie

    I'm just treasuring them.

    Mel

    Clearly. Yeah. Clearly haven't done any fly box or fly bag organization.

    Katie

    Nope. Haven't even touched it. Well, I really like that goal. I know that this is not as quantifiable, but it wasn't hard for me to know that I had failed at fly tying. So hopefully it'll also be obvious to you. And it's kind of like we resorted to giving ourselves grades. So maybe the ones that are not like a yes or no are more of a, did you pass the class? I think we'll go on that scale from now on. Like if it's a, my goal is to go fish this river, then it's a pass fail class. But if your goal is to get better at something, then you're going to give yourself a letter grade. And we're going to shame you if you get less than a C because C's get degrees, but D pluses don't get degrees.

    Mel

    I love that. I love that a lot. And I think that just organically came about on this episode.

    Katie

    It's true. Every year we're going to have some new reference. Last year it was locals. And this year is the grades. Maybe since I'm in school. So I'm very like grade focused right now. That's all I can think about.

    Mel

    I know. I thought about that too. I was like, it's been many years since I've gotten a grade. I don't even know what.

    Katie

    What do you mean many years? What would be it? I feel like you were in school like a year and a half ago. 

    Mel

    2019. 

    Katie

    Okay. Four years ago, whatever. Time flies.

    Mel

    And you know what? My goal is, one of my goals, to never have to get grades again. 

    Katie

    Yeah, that'd be nice. I'm almost there. I'm almost there. A couple months left. 

    Mel

    I know. So anyway, yeah, just to kind of wrap up on the entomology aspect, you know what? I had a thought and I think I already said it.

    Katie

    You know, I would edit that out, but I'm not going to.

    Mel

    Oh, Katie.

    Katie

    No, that was too good. I'm going to leave that one in. All right. You carry on. Okay. All right. So you brought up that I'm getting married, which is true. That is happening in June. And we are planning our honeymoon right now. And we are pretty settled on Belize because I used to do a ton of scuba diving back in the day before I moved to Colorado. And that just got killed. but mike has not gone diving before so he's going to get certified and we're going to go down and do a dive trip but I was like oh if we're going down there I'm gonna do some saltwater fishing so we've we found a couple places we haven't booked anything yet but we found a couple places that do like saltwater fly fishing slash diving and you basically like wake up and tell them what you want to do and they come grab you and you go out and do it and it's like it's almost like an a la carte option so well I don't even know exactly how to rein in one specific goal because I don't want to say just like go saltwater fly fishing because it seems like that pretty much will happen so that is my goal like I'm looking forward to that but I guess if I had to place like a you know a more concrete goal onto it would be to catch like I don't know one or two species of saltwater fish likely bonefish they also have all kinds of other species down there so Maybe I'll make it more concrete by saying catch a bonefish this year and then hopefully kind of add on an optional, like I can get extra credit in my grade if I catch another fish, another species. I need the bonefish for the passing, but I can get an extra credit with any other species.

    Mel

    Is that extra credit so you can slack in other goals?

    Katie

    No, this is a separate class. Each grade or each goal is its own class. So the extra credit only counts toward this goal. so if I don't catch the bonefish maybe I'm getting a d in the class but if I catch something else I can you know raise that grade up to a b plus you know by catching something else 

    Mel

    you are getting really creative 

    Katie

    it's yeah I mean I'm in that mindset yeah but yeah that is that's my goal catch I've never caught any saltwater species on the fly so it's and it seems likely it seems like an achievable goal we're going to be there hopefully for a week or so so it seems really reasonable to catch like a bone fish during that week's time

    Mel

    oh yeah I'm so jealous and I'm so excited to hear about that that's one of my favorite that's like the one that you'll obviously not be able to keep secret from me until we do this again next year because I'll be I'm gonna be texting you yep oh yeah and I think now that you say that going back to because I've never caught saltwater fish on the fly either. And when you asked me about Guam, if I would go there and do, you know, fly fishing or not, I don't even think that would really be achievable. Just because they don't have any flats or anything. I picture, you know, fishing for saltwater species in flats and you basically just like go right out and it's just cliff drop-offs into like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of feet of water. So, yeah, so that, that, yeah, is very exciting. And I'm very excited to hear about it. And that will be something that because you go and do it, I will be putting that on lists for the future, but not feasible for my 2023 travel.

    Katie

    That's fair. That's fair. This is a, a, special occasion. So, well, yeah. All right. What's your, wait, no, this isn't your last one because you've got another half, but your third one. What's your third one?

    Mel

    Third one is a destination one. It's a very achievable, well, kind of, but it is, yeah, it's achievable in that I'm going somewhere that I would like to catch a fish on the fly. Okay. So we're going to Italy in September. 

    Katie

    Oh, wait, I'm going to Europe in September as well.

    Me

    Are you? 

    Katie

    Yeah, I'm going to be in France. 

    Mel

    What?

    Katie

    I don’t feel like we will cross paths, but it feels like we're going to be so close together.

    Mel

    I know. Yeah. So when we traveled in New Zealand, we met a couple our age who lives in Italy in the northern part in the Dolomites. And they told us that we need to come visit them at some point. And we've been talking about it every year since, which was in 2019. So it's been four years. And finally putting that in motion, which I'm very excited about, we are going to focus our whole trip in that northern part. So we'll fly into Milan and then head up north. And I really, you know, as soon as we kind of started making it a concrete, trip and a trip plan. I started looking into if there's fly fishing in that area, which I assume there is because it's mountainous. And, it kind of sounds like it's a little bit, I reached out to the guy, the guy and the couple to ask him if there's anything that he knows about. And he said, not really, but he also isn't a fisherman. Um, so he just doesn't know anything. So I kind of looked a little bit up online and I guess they have marble trout there, which I don't know if you've heard of.

    Katie

    Yeah. I think of it in the context of Slovenia. Um, that's where I've heard of them being.

    Mel

    Yeah. So I don't really know. I looked up a few pictures. They kind of look like a tiger trout to me. Have you seen pictures of them?

    Katie

    I have. Um, we're actually planning to go to Slovenia in 2024 I think so that's on my list for 2024 yeah that's going to be on my goals next year 

    Mel

    oh spoiler 

    Katie

    yeah I know but yeah I have seen pictures

    Mel

    but I guess they have a bunch of they have browns and rainbows and the usual and I I'd honestly be happy catching anything because I I think that the marble trotter may be a little more rare from what I hear I haven't done a lot of research

    Katie

    did you see anything in your research about the puccini trout no what's that it's I don't Puccini trout. P-U-C-C-I-N-I. It's just like the trout I know from Italy. I don't know what it is. Like, I don't know if it's like a subspecies of a brown trout or something, but because it looks kind of like a brown trout. If you look it up, if I Google it, it's like a brown trout, but the spots are way bigger. Yeah. 

    Mel

    I haven't heard of them. 

    Katie

    Yeah. Look it up. I don't know where in Italy they live, but I had it sitting in my like tabs for a long time because I came across it and I was like, oh, I got to remember this. Yeah. Because we were supposed to go to Italy a couple of years ago and it ended up falling through because of COVID. But I'm like, oh, if I ever get back to Italy, I got to catch the puccini trout.

    Mel

    The puccini. When I Google that, it comes up as puccini brown trout. Is that what you said?

    Katie

    I just said puccini trout, but I said it might be like a subspecies because it looks kind of like a brown trout with giant spots.

    Mel

    Those are gorgeous.

    Katie

    Yeah. It looks like it might be like a subspecies. I'm not sure.

    Mel

    Well. that might be I mean I think that's asking a little too much if I put a particular species on

    Katie

    yeah for sure I mean you're going to Italy and like try to catch a fish that's yeah

    Mel

    because it's not a fishing trip anyway and we're only going to be there for nine or ten days so it will be lucky if we even get the chance because Jerrett was looking it up and it looks like it's a little complicated to get the licenses for Italy. I'm not quite sure. So we have to do a lot of research.

    Katie

    Well, every trip is a fishing trip with the right attitude, Mel. 

    Mel

    You're not a fisherman if you think otherwise. 

    Katie

    Right. Well, that's a fun goal. I'm really excited to hear how that one goes. I actually really like all of your goals. I'm excited to hear how all of them go.

    Mel

    Well, thanks. Same with you. I mean, why else would you come up with a if you didn't want to talk about it later

    Katie

    well I guess the difference is like last year some of our goals were like go to this place and it's like I don't know what place you're talking about so it's not that exciting for me to hear about like if it if you go and it goes well I'm excited to hear the story but like I don't know what river you're talking about or you don't know what lake I'm talking about so but all all the ones today I feel like you've said enough that I feel kind of like connected to it like I'm interested yeah I'm invested in it so I'm curious to hear how that goes. all right my last one this is the one that I like I couldn't think of a third one and then I realized that this is one that's kind of been like lingering so I did one of these this year I would like to do another one this coming year it's called the fastest known fish. have I told you about the fastest known fish? so the flyathlon you're familiar with the fly that I do each year the founder of that has he's been into trail running and fly fishing which is how the flyathlon came about and are you familiar with the concept of fastest known time for like trail running?

    Mel

    I mean probably not because

    Katie

    it's so yeah okay so it's like an fkt fastest known time and it's like people logging routes on their their watches you know like I ran this peak in three hours and 12 minutes and that's the fastest known time that anyone has logged on their watch running this particular route that's like you know in the system and so people go out and try to achieve these fastest known times on like trail runs on skis on bikes and all these things so Andrew the founder of the flyathlon came up with the fastest known fish which is kind of the same thing but you've got to catch a fish while you're there or it doesn't count oh I like that so it's like the fastest person to you know run to this lake catch a fish and get back to the trailhead. Like who's done that exact route the fastest. And there's like variations of it where, you know, one way. So it's like run up there, catch a fish, and then stop the clock. Run up there, catch a fish, come back, stop the clock. You can link multiple species together. So it could be like run to one lake, catch one species, run to the next lake, catch another species, and then come back. You can like craft pretty custom routes. And he posts them on the website. And then people can challenge the existing time. So if someone goes in and sees a listing that they're like, oh, I can do that faster than that. they can go up and try to, you know, catch a fish faster in that lake than somebody else. And so I did, I did one this year and it was slow. Like anyone who attempts to beat it is probably going to beat me, but I got a record

    Mel

    But you’re the first one to do it.

    Katie

    I said that's, that's my strategy is just to set a bunch of firsts. So I can do it as fast as I want. I did run. I didn't, I didn't walk it. I ran slash walked it, you know, I'd slow down when I needed to, because it's, It is like running up a mountain. You know, I'm not going to be running the whole time. But it was relatively slow. And the fishing was not as good as I expected. So it took me longer than it should have to catch a fish, which hurt me. But this year, I like to just set my goals to set another one. Or beat one. Or beat one. But it's unlikely because the people setting them are often like really good runners. And what I have on my side is that I generally can catch a fish pretty quickly. But the running is slow for me. And so if I see one that's posted that I think I can beat, I'll try it. But if not, I'll just try to set a new route and someone can beat it down the road. But it's just fun to have your name on there for even a brief moment.

    Mel

    Yeah, I love that. I'm really excited to hear about that one too.

    Katie

    Yeah, I don't know where I would do it yet. You can pick whatever route you want. So I'd like to craft something fun. Maybe that's another thing is instead of just picking what seems like low-hanging fruit, Like maybe, you know, find a, a leg I've really been wanting to go to or a species I've wanted to catch or, or something like that. Um, to just make it something I'm, I'm looking forward to and kind of kill two birds with one stone.

    Mel

    Right. Cool. That's it. Uh, I can't remember if you had already mentioned, but where are those posted?

    Katie

    Um, I forget the exact URL. Uh, but if you look up like running rivers, running rivers is the organization, like the nonprofit organization that he runs. And I'm sure if you Googled running rivers, fastest known fish, it would come up and you'd navigate either. I don't know if I still have the record for mine. I don't know if anyone broke it. I didn't look. If no one did, it's because they ran out of time before it started snowing. Not because it was unattainable.

    Mel

    Right. Give yourself more credit, Katie.

    Katie

    I mean, you should do one too, just for fun.

    Mel

    Is it only, I guess, is there a location restriction?

    Katie

    I don't think so because I think kind of the whole point is that you do it like wherever you want your own time you're supposed to send him your plan beforehand so he can approve it because you know there's there's some rules about you know you can't do it on private land it needs to be accessible by other people so okay so I like sent him my plan ahead of time like hey I'm gonna go to this lake start at this trailhead like a very basic just to have him say yes that and I think there's a link on the on the website that says contact me here to get your route like approved before you go but I think if you choose public land and it's a place with fish that you can legally fish there there would be no problems with you choosing whatever route you want

    Mel

    huh so that's awesome here's my question what if you get up there and you're like I caught my fish but I kind of want to stay

    Katie

    so that's that's where the one way exists so I did I did a round trip version because I had something to be back for anyway. So I ran up there, caught like one. I think I stayed for one extra because I was like, I came the whole way here. But then I left because I had something to get back for. But the one way allows you to run up, catch your fish and stop the clock while you're still up there. So then you can keep fishing. Oh, and you have to drink a beer on the way at some point.

    Mel

    Of course you do. Why wouldn't you?

    Katie

    Well, it's required in the rules that there has to be, I think for adults, it's like an alcoholic beverage. But if you don't drink alcohol, you could substitute something of equal I don't know what how he would phrase it but basically like it's supposed to make the run a little bit harder so so he said like a kid could drink like you know a half gallon of milk or something and then I could count like a substitute for the beer because it's just going to be make you miserable as you run the same way that drinking like a heavy stout would make an adult like hate their life when they're running 

    Mel

    this contest just got exponentially better oh my gosh 

    Katie

    so yeah take a look take a look and you can see what the rules are that is so great but it's just like a fun way to it's a fun way to get up and see a new place and I also was pleasantly surprised with how it allowed me to fit fishing in in a window that I hadn't previously done because I normally wouldn't run to a lake catch a fish or two and then run back I would hike up there fish for like three hours and come back which is great and I love staying up there for a longer time. But then I feel like I have to dedicate a whole day to it. And I fit this in before like 10 30 a.m. And it was like, oh, I could go fishing before like a lunch date with somebody and get to an alpine lake and catch fish and get back in time for whatever appointment I've got. So it kind of like opened my eyes to the ability to fit more fishing into my life.

    Mel

    Oh, this is a fabulous segue to my other half goal. Perfect. We'll wrap up with this one. Okay, so on that note of feeling like you can do a little fishing outing in a very short window, I feel like I need to work on having the, not drive, but just the feeling, I guess, that I don't have to, going fishing doesn't have to be a full day or weekend dedication. And the reason that I thought about this is because I was driving back from Bozeman today. And I thought, you know what? I don't really have plans the rest of the afternoon until this podcast with Katie. I have three hours that I could burn somewhere along the way had I packed my fly fishing gear. And I didn't have it in my car. And I drove right past Rock Creek. Drove right past like the blackfoot I mean I drove

    Katie

    you could have you could have finished on the way home you can do I think the rule is that you can do it up until the day we record the next one like it doesn't have to be in 2022 it has to be between podcast episodes so you've gotten to like probably mid-January because that's when we'll likely keep doing this after the holidays and settle down and everything so yeah just for the future you could have done it but you failed

    Mel

    Oh, crap. I got a big fat F and I could have gotten an A. Yeah. But, you know, I just feel like maybe it's because I have the mentality that I don't have access really, really close to me. Whereas I think you have a river or something that you can go 15 minutes away and you can do for an hour, a couple hours in the evening or something. And for myself, I've always had this feeling just kind of where I live that it either has to be a full day or – and my day is shot once I go. And by shot, I mean like I've done something that I love, but I just have no time for anything else.

    Katie

    I went fishing. Oh, no. So, right. No, but I feel like as, I don't know, I feel like you're probably this way too. I like getting things done. And if I'm not getting things done, you know, I'm feeling stressed. So if I go somewhere for an hour and like don't catch anything, it's like, well, you know, what could I have gotten done in that time? You know, there is like a stress element to it when you haven't dedicated time set aside to going and join this activity. It feels like it's taking, it's encroaching on the time that you had set aside to do things.

    Mel

    Yes, exactly.

    Katie

    Yeah.

    Mel

    So I think just having even, you know, throwing my, some gear in my car and always having it in there. And because I do a lot of driving and a lot of road trips. And if I have an hour or two that I can stop somewhere and fish something that I otherwise would literally buzz right by every single time that I drive, would be really, would be really cool. And so I think that was that, segue where you're like, I, I did that, fastest fish in before 10 30 AM. I'm like, that is awesome. And this is kind of one of those things that I'd like to work on just, you know, and also when you're out there not feeling like you said, like your to-do list is waiting and, you should be elsewhere doing something.

    Katie

    Yeah. But I mean, part of it's just perspective too like how much time do you spend each day scrolling social media or you know wandering around like cleaning things that don't actually need to be cleaned or like whatever else that you feel like you're you're at home and therefore maybe you're being productive but you're actually not really getting anything done it's like okay you add up all that time over the course of a week do you think you could fit in like those that many hours some morning to go fishing instead like probably it's just like a matter of getting all your stuff together and going and doing it so that's something I've I haven't like made it a concrete goal but I've done the same thing where I'm like I'm gonna start storing stuff in my car including like a built-up rod that way if I'm ever driving past somewhere and I've got time I could take out I can get out and take like 10 casts and like so what you know it might take me 30 minutes and if I don't catch anything so what 

    Mel

    yeah yeah cool 

    Katie

    well I like that well half goal 

    Mel

    yeah that's right 

    Katie

    yeah it's a two credit class

    Mel

    well that's right yeah did you have any you didn't have any others right?

    Katie

    no no I love how we started this before we started recording like oh this one's probably gonna go like 40 minutes we should keep it shorter and I don't know what we're at we're at 45 minutes on this half since our audio cut out and the first one was 40 minutes so I think we've hit our normal time this is just what happens when we talk I guess and yeah and people don't like it they can leave cool well let's do the same thing again this time I have accountability written down and underlined so I'm going to send you an email sometime the next couple days I'll put it on my to-do list these are the items that I have to turn down fishing to do is to get through my to-do list of sending you accountability emails about how we're going to fish more

    Mel

    instead of going fishing you have to do that first because it's on your to-do list

    Katie

    yeah and I'm going to list our goals in there. So we have a reference and then I'm going to snooze it. I'm going to make this email pop back into my inbox in a couple of months so I can't ignore it. So we're going to get real technologically advanced with this goal setting this year because we're going to pass these classes.

    Mel

    Heck yeah, we are. I'm not coming to you with an F again. No way. 

    Katie

    No, that's embarrassing. Truly. 

    Mel

    Started with an F. Never had an F in my life.

    Katie

    Well, let's wrap this up. I don't know how to wrap these up with you because there's not like a topic that we've been talking about really. But thanks for talking again. I'm glad that you've been like my most frequently recurring guest and looking forward to the next time we do one of these.

    Mel

    I'm honored, Katie. Thank you so much.

    Katie

    All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to head over to the website, fishuntamed.com for all episodes and show notes. And also, please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also, if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me, and I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening, and I will be back in two weeks. Bye, everybody.

Note:

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Katie Kusold
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