Ep 65: The Angler’s Progression, with Preston Smith
Preston Smith (also appearing in episode 47) is the Managing Partner of Wildwood Environmental Credit Company and President of Trout Headwaters, Inc. In his last episode, we discussed environmental offsets and conservation, but in this episode, he’s back to talk about fishing. Specifically, we talked about the angler’s progression from wanting to catch a fish, to many fish, to big fish, and finally to helping others enjoy the sport.
Website: www.wildwoodcredits.com
Instagram: @wildwood_credits
Facebook: /wildwoodcredits
-
Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 65 with Preston Smith on the Angler's Progression. so I'm sure we did a bit of an intro last time when last time you were on we were talking about ecological offsets and your business but if anyone didn't listen to that one can you just Give me another just quick intro about yourself and maybe this time with more of an emphasis on your fishing background, since we're kind of switching gears here and talking more about the fishing.
Preston
Absolutely. No. So Preston Smith, I'm living in Tyler, Texas. I started or helped start a company called Wildwood Environmental Credit Company. We do land-based restoration and conservation projects that ultimately restore these ecosystems to make them more resilient, more healthy. And then we provide protections long-term to ensure that forever and ever. And for me, that's a fun alignment of my personal interest as a sportsman and a fisherman with, you know, fortunate to be a, you know, professional, I guess a profession that I got to pursue. So getting to do that is really a reflection of, you know, these things that I've been passionate about my whole life, including fishing.
Katie
So did you, I assume you started with a spin rod.
Preston
Definitely started with a spin rod. And, and really that's for me was just following dad around or even my grandfather. I can remember at an early age, just him trying to teach me how to fish and probably exuding a lot of patience with my inability to do anything as a small child. Uh, but you know, whatever, physically, metaphorically you, you catch that first fish and then you're hooked and you're like, Oh, this is a lot of fun. I need to do more of this, or I need to do all of this.
Katie
There's something, I don't know if primal is the right word, but just the feeling of a fish tugging on your line. I feel like it's really hard for anyone to have that sensation and not be, like you said, hooked on it. There's just something addicting. And I don't know if it comes from some sort of ancestral desire to catch fish for food. And so now we feel that tug and it triggers something in us, or if it's just plain old fun, or I don't know what it is, but I feel like it's really hard to argue that anyone who feels that tug is in that moment and doesn't want to give up that feeling.
Preston
Oh, you know, and growing up in the South here in Texas, our water is not noticeably clear. So you're really just throwing something out into the abyss and you sit there and you kind of don't know if anything's ever going to happen. And then all of a sudden your line, your rod comes to life. And then you reel in this creature from underneath the water and it reveals itself. And sudden there's like this whole new world you didn't know about. And so you just continue to want to explore that in a lot of different ways or as many ways as you can. And some of us don't ever stop that.
Katie
As much as I love sight fishing, and I'll never turn down like a crystal clear rising trout situation. I also really, really like something about that feeling of not knowing what's in there when you feel that tug, because it could be anything. And it almost feels like unwrapping a gift on Christmas, like you're not going to know what it is until it's right at your feet. And I like that almost as much as sight fishing, just because of that surprise element, especially if there's a lot of different species present where you're like, it could be one of, you know, 15 different fish from this body of water. And I have no idea what it is.
Preston
Oh, no, I completely agree. And maybe it's because I grew up with that, right? Like the first kind of fishing I did was pond and lake fishing where you just, you can't see. And, and even as you got better at fishing, you would, you try to fish structure and you're casting to a specific spot and you think, okay, maybe this lure will work better than that. But at the end of the day, it's your, I said it already, you're casting out into the abyss. You, you hope, you know, what's there, but there's always this unknown element of what are you actually going to catch? And is it, you know, a fun two pound bass or is it some lunker 10 pound sea monster that you're going to give you the fight of your life? And so that's, there is that allure of kind of not being able to see or not know is really still a lot of fun, even today.
Katie
Off the top of your head, can you think of the most surprised you've ever been? Like you're fishing for bluegill and you reel in a pike or something like that, where you're just like, holy crap, I did not expect to catch this on this cast.
Preston
So two memories come to mind. The first is being a little kid, dad taking me out, teaching me kind of how to fish, fishing for sunfish, a little bit of either a worm or some kind of power bait and a bobber. And we used to go out to a friend of ours. They had a pond and we'd all go fish and just kind of work the bank and catch bluegill or sunfish all day long. So much fun. Probably one of my earliest fishing memories is being out there fishing and watching my court going under and then watching my buddy, his court going under, and then we both reel in. And this same sunfish had eaten my bait and his bait. And we'd hooked him simultaneously and reeled him in together. So the two of us caught one fish. And, you know, I still think we have pictures somewhere floating around on maybe an old Polaroid or whatever, us holding this fish up with two lines going into his mouth and, and just how much fun that was to just being, you know, getting started in fishing and like something seemingly miraculous happens. So it definitely was a fun memory as a kid, when you talk about being surprised by what you're catching. The other was probably a little later in life. I was at summer camp in fishing class, which probably shows I had a longtime love of fishing and was fishing off this dock, had the counselor there kind of over my shoulder watching, caught a perch. As I start to reel it in, it was probably about a four or five pound bass comes up and inhales that perch. And then the fight is really on. And of course the counselors all of a sudden jumped into action and excited and I'm freaking out. And fortunately it was able to land that fish. So to your point of like, oh, Hey, I've got this bluegill. We see it coming. And then all of a sudden it turned into a five pound bass. Yeah. That was a pretty good surprise.
Katie
Yeah. I'm thinking the first story you mentioned there, I'm thinking like, What if you guys have been standing farther apart and you just like rip this fish in half? I'm just picturing one line going in one side of the mouth, the other line going in the other side of the mouth. Almost like that skit where the two kids catch each other under the dock. Have you seen that where their two hooks combine and they're pulling against each other? I just picture you both being like, I've got a monster. It's just like this poor blue gill that's just getting like torn in half.
Preston
Yeah, no, I still remember to this day, even as a kid thinking like, what a greedy little fish. Like one wasn't enough. He had to have two. So he was destined to be caught and probably been caught multiple times since then.
Katie
What were you guys using? Were you using the same bait?
Preston
You know, I was young enough. You know, my memories around fishing for bluegill and perch and fish was, you know, going out, digging up worms with my dad, putting them in a, you know, coffee can. It's probably like a Folgers coffee can with a little bit of dirt and then going down to the lake and just hooking them on there and throwing them out. So in all likelihood, that's what it was, you know, probably an earthworm of some kind that we were out there fishing with. And so we, we probably had the right setup, the same depth, the same, everything that you would, you know, as a kid, you wouldn't even think about, but that fish was just right in its wheelhouse.
Katie
Just super greedy.
Preston
Yeah.
Katie
Like, like two dogs, one, one dog trying to steal the other dog's treat and get him for himself.
Preston
That fish was getting all the treats. So yeah, he got double, double punishment. He got hooked twice.
Katie
Well, maybe better than being caught twice. He's like, let me just, I just need this once just to happen once.
Preston
One out of lake experience is enough.
Katie
But anyway, going back to the, the arc you mentioned, you brought this up as a topic for today. And I thought that was a really interesting topic because it's come up before this idea of the progression of an angler. I know we're also kind of generally talking about the progression of like a spin fisherman to a fly fisherman, but also just in general, this arc of wanting to go to the end of the go from catching, you know, a fish to eventually progressing to, depending on which arc you're talking about, you know, it either ends in just happy to be out there or teaching others or something along those lines. And the one I've generally heard is like, you first want to just catch a fish, any fish, then you want to catch as many fish as possible. And then it might be the biggest fish. And then, like I said, it usually ends somewhere a little bit more abstract, like just happy to be on the water or share it with your kids or something like that. And yours was a little bit different than the one I've heard before. So I'd love to hear kind of how you've figured out your progression of an angler from going from I just want to catch a fish to where you are today. And we can maybe stop at each one and discuss.
Preston
Sure. You know, for me, I think of this as almost a sportsman's or sports person's life cycle or arc or trajectory is you get introduced to this thing and you're like, okay, I like this. I want to do this. And that can be hunting or fishing or all kinds of things. For me, in most of my life, it's been fishing. And you go, oh, I caught a fish. I want to catch all the fish. And I still can remember going to little kid fishing tournaments where it wasn't about pounds of fish or, you know, what kind of equipment in a one fly tournament, it was just like, who caught the most brim today?
Katie
Right. And, and so you're like, I'm going to catch the most,
Preston
I'm gonna catch, you know, 10, 12, 20. And you just go for that. And, and so it was, then let's catch, you know, whatever, as many or all the fish. And then I think maybe somewhat naturally you go, okay, I've caught a lot. Now I want to catch the big one. And, and that's different for everybody, right? It's, you know, what's, what's the big one. And that's kind of a, maybe the fun thing about fishing is, is there's maybe always a bigger one out there and maybe that's a different species or different style. And, but then it goes into, okay, well, I've caught a bass, but now I want to catch a five pound bass and a six pound. And, and maybe it's just part of being a fisherman that gives you the opportunity to, it's maybe not the opportunity, it's the excuse to keep going. Like, Oh, well, Hey, I got to go. I got to see if I can catch a bigger fish than I did last week or the last time I had time to go fishing. And for me, like I said, growing up in the South, it was mostly largemouth bass fishing. And so it was, okay, I've caught this size. Now what do I have to do to learn to catch the next size? And so it becomes a very dynamic process because it's not just throwing the lure. It's what lure do I use? What time of year is it? Where are the fish? And so there's kind of that whole learning process that comes with it that makes it a lot of fun.
Katie
Yeah, I'd love to dissect each of these. And maybe we can talk about some of your stories and just kind of just some discussion, I guess, about each one and like what maybe what causes people to go to each next step. Because like you said, this is something that a lot of people go through, but it's not something people really discuss in that they're not they don't realize they're on this arc a lot of the time until they've already kind of progressed most of the way through it or they've heard someone else talking about it. But even if they've never heard of it before, people still follow the same progression, which is kind of interesting that, you know, everyone follows even if they don't know that they're on it.
Preston
yeah no I'd be happy to dive into that and you know for me it's you know I'm at a point in my life where I can be a little bit retrospective because I've got young kids and so I'm now to this stage of like oh let's let's teach them some of these things I know and see what they do with it and and then all of a sudden you realize there's a new kind of fun and I think that's maybe each step right is you don't know you're there and about the time you think you're maybe bored with the this idea of fishing, there's something else to go do. And for me, that started, you know, maybe from spin fishing to then even evolving into fly fishing or, you know, fishing with style, as I've heard it said. And, and, and, and it just changes the thing again. And so now it's the same thing that you've loved for a long time, but with a new spin on it and a new twist. And you can go back and say, oh, well, I've caught a lot of perch, but never with a fly rod. Right. Let's go do that. And so for my, you know, my trajectory, it was, it was kind of exploring all that I felt like there was to explore and then realizing there's a whole new mechanism or style to go catch fish. Um, and I've, I see that with friends that pick up fly fishing that are new to it now, where even talking about equipment and things, they still refer to, Oh, like, Hey, this top water lure I'm using, you're like, Oh, Hey buddy, that's, that's a dry fly. We don't call it a top water. And it's like, Oh, okay. And oh yeah, we're going to pinch the barbs down. Well, why? Well, it's more sporting or it's more fun that way. And so there's kind of that arc and trajectory at any stage. And you're right. I don't think people realize they're on it or in any particular phase until they've had some opportunity to be kind of retrospective about it. And then you can kind of go back and dissect like, oh yeah, I was here for a long time. And even to say that it's an arc, that it's only a one-way street. I think we all kind of go back and forth. It fluctuates, right? Because I think there's still times when I think, man, I want to go catch the biggest of whatever. And then you kind of think about, okay, how do I weave that back into where I am in my pursuits and fishing?
Katie
Okay. I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to mention that later. But yeah, and I think this has come up on another one of my episodes that there's days where I just feel like a certain stage in the art where I'm just like, you know what? I just want to catch like 50 five inch fish today. Like I just want to be catching a fish on like every cast and I don't care how big they are. I'm probably just going to toss them back. I might even hope that they get off the line before I get them in. I just want to be like feeling a lot of tugs that day. And then there's other days where I'm like, I want to catch one fish and I want it to be a monster. And if I don't catch anything else, I'm perfectly happy. And there's other days where I'm like, I just want to go fishing. Like I had a stressful day at work. I honestly don't care if I catch anything. I just want to be in silence on the river for a little bit. And you kind of like jump all over the place. And it's not necessarily related to how long you've been fishing. You might jump back to stage one and be like, I just want to catch a fish today. You know, I don't care what it is or how big it is or anything.
Preston
Yeah, just get an opportunity. Well, we've all heard it, right? A good day fishing is better than a good day in the office or a good day at work. And yeah, no, and I think that's maybe that's part of the progression, right? Maybe there's a stage in here that we're not talking about that's a little bit of all these. But usually it seems in my experience to come with, you know, maturity is the wrong word because it's I wouldn't consider myself very mature, but age, right? Like as a kid, it's not fun just to be out there. You don't maybe recognize that at the moment, but you're just like, oh, we're not catching anything. I'm bored. Let's go home. And, you know, luckily for me, I had a dad that was patient and was like, no, we're going to stay here because it's just fun for me to be out. Right. I had a long day at work. I just wanted to be out. And that, you know, that time for him translated into patience with fishing for me and then, you know, opportunities to catch fish and then, you know, think about it differently now that I'm, you know, trying to maybe fish with a four-year-old. It's really less about me getting to fish and facilitating fishing for him. And then maybe I get a cast in here or there.
Katie
Yeah. And I think as an adult, you can appreciate things that you might be getting apart from the fish. Like if you go out and you, maybe you have a big fish on the line and it gets off, you might be able to think of that as a learning opportunity. You might be able to say, okay, what did I do wrong? What can I do better next time? You know, you got to practice a new technique. You got to enjoy some nice weather. And as a kid, none of this stuff really enters into your mind. Like you're not thinking about like what a great learning opportunity something was. Like that's not something that hits people until they're much older.
Preston
Yeah. You're like, my lure is stuck in this tree and I broke my line and I'm never going to get it back. Like I've ruined my day. No, you're right. It's, there's a lot of perspective in fishing. And maybe that's the great thing about fishing is that it teaches you perspective. I mean, you have to like, I mean, I can still vividly remember even in recent years, missing that fish, whatever fish it was. Right. And it's like, oh, devastation. Like, oh, what happened? Like, what did I do wrong? How can I fix this? How could I re-approach it? And, and then you get back up and you go fishing again. And, you know, it'd be really easy, but I quit. I'm done. This is never going to work. And, and I'm finished with it. But maybe there's, again, something wrong with us that like to fish, you go, no, no, I'm going to go back and try again, a little bit different, or maybe the same way, but different conditions and, and see what happens this time.
Katie
You know, I'd never thought about it that way, but that's a really interesting point in that you do have those memories where you're like, I let that monster get away and you're devastated and it still hurts like years later, just thinking about it. And you're like, yeah, but if you hadn't gone out at all, you also wouldn't have caught that fish, but you wouldn't have thought anything of that. But it's the fact that you got close to it and then didn't get it in somehow like leaves this burn scar on you of like how painful this is. But you know, most days of the week, I don't go out fishing. And so most days of the week, I'm not catching a giant fish, but that doesn't bother me because I didn't even try. And it's weird how those stick with you, but it does give you kind of some perspective in that you remember how hard that was, but then you compare it to anything else in your life that's actually hard. And you're like, it wasn't that bad that I didn't catch that fish. Again, most days, I'm not catching a big fish. So why is it so painful? And it's nice to kind of use that as a perspective to be like, again, I'd much rather be out there losing a big fish than being anywhere you know, like being at work or, or doing chores or anything. So, I like that, that viewpoint of just putting things in perspective and I don't know, it gives you a different viewpoint on a lot of things.
Preston
Well, that's, I mean, I think that's, I don't know, thinking about this abstractly a little bit, right. There's very little in life that we get to try so many times to get right. You know, you know, whatever it's, we have very linear progression through school, right? You don't get to go retake that test that you didn't study enough for and you bombed or, you, forgot to do the homework. With fishing, you can go back to that time and time again and try all kinds of different things, different styles, different equipment, different lures, different techniques, like you're saying. And it gives you the opportunity to learn in an environment that most cases in life, you don't get to do that. And then I think you get to take the good with the bad because as we've all remembered those bitter losses, there's unbelievable moments where you do catch the big one and you've had this experience that is also just burned into your brain but in a positive way and so then you kind of balance the whatever the the tough losses with the great memories of the good and and then I think that's what kind of keeps you coming back because you just don't know what you're going to get on any given time and and luckily you can have the perspective of man I'm just happy to be out here I'm happy to catch any fish man maybe it's the day I go for the big fish. And so it kind of reflects almost the mood and your aptitude for what the, you know, what the situation might be that day.
Katie
Are you the kind of person that remembers the one that got away more or the one that you landed?
Preston
I am fiercely competitive in just about everything that I do. And I think that stems from remembering the, like the bad beats, the, like the ones that got away more than some of the good ones. But I'm also really lucky that I've got some just amazing stories of like catching a big one and that, you know, I, you know, I know we talked about this a little bit because I sent you a picture of this brown trout that I caught. And this was really just a few years ago. I'm fishing in Southwest Montana. I'm with my wife, which is, you know, we talk about the kind of the arc and the life cycle of fishing, like sharing and teaching. I definitely don't teach her anything. She, she's teaching me lots of things at this point. Cause she's been a fly fisher person since she was a little kid. And I'm still relatively new to it in that sense. But we got to go fishing. We'd gone night fishing on the spring creek. We'd been mousing, kind of just taking turns, hitting holes, working up the spring creek. Happened to be my turn. I pitched this big mouse fly into the hole and it sounded like someone threw a cinder block in the water, just this explosion of water. And we are both sitting there. The same level of excitement arose out of both of us. I set the hook. I've got this monster her fish on. We're turning on our headlamps. We're running up to the edge. I'm fighting it, fighting it, fighting it. She's got the net. She's yelling at me. Don't lose it. I'm yelling at her. I'm trying not to lose it. And in that moment, in that time, it all came together. She nets this fish. We pull it up. We're probably equally as excited. She's just as excited as I am. I'm just as excited as she is. We take our pictures, we tape it, we put it back, we release it. And then it's just this like, oh my goodness, what just happened moment. And was it the most amazing brown trout I probably will ever catch in my life? Yes. Was it that much more amazing? Because I got to share that moment with my wife? Absolutely. And so like that memory will outweigh a lot of the bad ones of when they got away. But I think it's the bad ones that keep me coming back to see if you can go replicate those just great moments and stories and moments.
Katie
Yeah. So I think that brings up an interesting point in that when you mentioned catching this and you just were so excited and afterward there's just this like feeling of euphoria I feel like when I catch a giant fish like that I almost there's like a vacuum after where I don't really need to take more casts right away like I almost just want to sit down and just like rest for a little bit I don't I'm not immediately inclined to start casting again but like you said when you when you lose a big fish it like motivates you to get back out there and keep trying and I feel like there's this like interesting dichotomy of when, when you fail, it motivates you to start again. But when you are successful, there's almost like a period of not gloating. Cause it's not like you're bragging to other people about it, but just this like wallowing in your own happiness about it, where you're just like, I never need to fish again. Like I've, I've hit my peak. This is wonderful. And obviously eventually that wears off, but, I've never like noticed that when I'm actually out there, but now that you've mentioned it, I definitely have that same motivation when I've lost a big one that I'm like, I got to get back out and try again.
Preston
Oh yeah. No, there's a, it's their contentment and having that like accomplish something. And it's not like you really accomplished something. You were in the right time in the right place. You did the right things and you caught the right fish and you're right. You're like, I did it. I've mission accomplished. You know, and I joke, I caught the fish of a lifetime. I kind of like to think it would become later in my lifetime that maybe there's the allure that I could get one bigger. I don't know if that'll ever happen. Yeah, I might peak too soon. But you're right. When I've had fish that I've missed or opportunities that I just totally blew, I remember those because I went right back to fishing. It was like, hey, I got to keep after this. Like, let's fix that now so it doesn't happen again. And you're right. Some of the euphoria wears off even after a big fish. You're like, okay, let's go. I guess we'll go try to do that again. And you kind of keep after it.
Katie
Yeah, I almost feel like part of the reason, I mean, in addition to just kind of sitting and enjoying the moment, is that you kind of know that you're not going to outdo yourself that day. You're like, I already caught the biggest fish. So if I cast out now, I almost know for a fact that I'm going to catch a smaller fish. So the motivation kind of goes a little bit down. I guess unless you're fishing a place where there's just like tons of giant fish. But in general, it's like you kind of know like, okay, I've hit my peak for the day and there's not much use in trying to outdo it.
Preston
Well, yeah, right. I think if we were all really smart fisher people, right, you'd say I caught the biggest fish in my life. I should never cast again. Like I did it. I can end on top. But probably like most professional athletes, we go, no, we'll keep going. You'll get a bigger one, yeah. The rest of the day you catch nothing or you catch little ones and you go, okay, well, maybe I should have stopped after that one. but whatever that, I think you said this at the very beginning, right? There's this allure to the unknown of what you might catch or what might happen. And you're like, well, I caught this one, but, but maybe, right. Maybe there's something else out there. And so you just, you just keep being drawn back to it.
Katie
What did that fish measure on the tape?
Preston
It was right at 30 inches.
Katie
Nice. I was hoping you might say 30.
Preston
Yeah. Oh no, it was, it was a, yeah, it was a fish of a lifetime. I mean, it just really, you know, people travel all over the world looking for fish like that. And I was fortunate enough to catch one in a non-specific area of Southwest Montana.
Katie
Do you know if there are fish like that in the area? Like were you, was it on your mind that you could catch a 30 inch Brown when you were, I mean, mousing at night is what you think of when you think of big Brown. So, you know, if, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen now, but was it on your mind that that could happen or were you expecting a lot smaller fish?
Preston
So the idea was to be chasing big fish. I mean, this mouse fly was a giant mouse fly. I mean, it was like throwing a wet sock, you know, it's like, There's little, little to it that was eloquent, but luckily it's dark and no one can see. Um, so that was the idea. And this maybe goes back to like, Hey, this was a time in my life with maybe this new style of fly fishing, which was, you know, I, I started learning to fly fish in college. And so, you know, opened up a whole new world of, of, of types of fishing and fish to go pursue in this new method. Um, for, so for that part of the arc, I was like, I'm after the biggest, I don't care if I catch a single fish, but if I do catch a fish, I want it to be a big one. And so that was the idea for that, that evening and that night. And, and, and again, it goes back to maybe even like never want to pass up good dry fly fishing, right? Like it's amazing to watch fish eat and set the hook and then have the fight and you get to kind of see it all happen. But, but you know, the kind of the allure of the darkness and not being able to see or what's really out there and what's coming out to, you know, hopefully eat your mouse fly, adds a lot of excitement. And, you know, I'm, I'm a consummate optimist. Maybe that goes well with being a fisherman. And so I just always think like, Hey, maybe, Hey, maybe there could be that one. And even in places, and it probably is detrimental to my fishing. Cause there's a lot of times I fish water that objectively, most people go, Hey man, just move on. There's no, there's nothing there. It's not that good. It's too small or what I'm like, but maybe, but maybe. And so I keep trying. And so that's a lot of the kind of my more recent big fish endeavors have been night fishing for brown trout and you know that but maybe kind of sets in and each hole could be the the next spot
Katie
so right I've got another this or that question for you would you would you prefer to go out with the intention of catching a big fish and then catch a big fish so you've succeeded in your goal or do you get more excitement out of just going out fishing no expectations and then you catch a giant and it's like something that wasn't even on your radar but at some point during that fight you realize what's going on? Like, you're not expecting it at all. Like what, what gets you more pumped up at the end of the day?
Preston
You know, that's a great question. I think there, there are times when I will specifically say, okay, I'm going to go chase big fish, but more times than not, I just like to go fishing. I just want to be out there. Um, and, and, and now, I mean, I used to fish a lot by myself because it was, you know, that would be this or that question, like, would you rather, you know, fish with someone or, you know, or not fish or fish by yourself? And I was just like, well, if the options to fish by myself or not fish, I'm going fishing with by myself. Now it's like, Hey, can I go fish with somebody? Because you get to share those experiences. And so fishing with my dad or my father-in-law or my wife or now my kids, it just takes that like, okay, I get to go fishing. So this is great. And then to your point, when all of a sudden you do have that fish of the day or the one that can really, you know, set itself apart as far as the, a bigger fish and you realize it, then it's like, then things get a little bit more serious. You focus a little bit more. Oh, there are fish like that in here. Okay. Oh, absolutely. And, and, you know, and I like, I, I think anytime I fish a new stretch of water or a new river or a new place that, that allure like is reinvigorated. I go, oh, I've never been here. I don't know what the fish are like. Maybe they're huge. Maybe there's a lot of them. And you know, most of the time it's about what you expected, but every once in a while you have just this unbelievable day where you catch a ton of fish or what I was fishing on the Madison river. This has been a couple of summers ago. And I went with my dad and we were in a drift boat and we had a, probably about a two hour stretch over a, you know, six or seven hour float, which is all I really remember about that trip because the trout started eating hoppers and the dry fly fishing was amazing. And we couldn't, you could barely put your flies in the water without getting a take and then, you know, another rise or, you know, a miss and then another miss and then a hit. And, and he and I were just like, he was as giddy as I was. I mean, we just had so much fun catching a fish cause you just could, it still rarely happens that way. Then all of a moment of like, oh, we know this is special. And it was fun because we knew it was special in that moment.
Katie
Yeah. I think that's sometimes kind of rare. Like a lot of times you look back and you're like, that was a really great experience, but it's, it's always the best when you realize it midday, you're like, this is like, I'm going to remember this for the rest of my life. And it's, it's good. Cause you're just like, I'm going to soak it up, you know?
Preston
Oh yeah. And you, but you also have to be careful not to say it out loud. You kind of like, look, you give that knowing look like, Hey, this is amazing, but don't say it.
Katie
Oh, I say it. I say it. I'm like, this is the best day.
Preston
Yeah, that's about the time when I say the fishing just stops.
Katie
Yeah, that's a risk. Oh, I ruined it.
Preston
Sorry, everybody.
Katie
I think, so I know we're going to get back to the arc here and we're kind of jumping around. But when it comes to like many fish versus big fish, I think I've actually realized that when I'm with people, I lean heavily toward lots of fish. It is always really exciting when anyone catches a big fish. And if you're in a group where someone has a big one on, it's fun when the whole group like gathers around and like someone's on net duty. someone's standing up above trying to like navigate and stuff. But it's just really fun to have a crew out there on the water and everyone's just catching lots of fish. Like that's just probably, I think, peak fishing for me is I would like to be out there with a couple of my friends and the fishing's just on fire. And when I'm by myself, I think I don't care as much about the number of fish because I don't have anyone there to, you know, celebrate with. So it's like if I catch 30 fish, it's like, okay, by the 10th fish, they all kind of start to blend together. And that's when I start to care a little bit more about either a specific species. Like maybe I'm trying to catch a native fish or a big fish. And I think I go back and forth between those two stages a lot, just based on who I'm with, because the energy just builds when everyone's catching fish. And like you said, your fly hits the water and there's a fish on it immediately. That's just, it's so easy to get pumped up when everybody's just like, oh, I got one. I got one. I don't know. It just, you just feed off each other.
Preston
Yeah. You get the call out. Well, the other fun thing about fishing with people is everybody's expectations are different and everybody's measure of success is different, right? Like some people have caught a 10 inch trout. Some have caught a 15, you know, the rare people, you know, 20 and like a really lucky person like myself has caught a 30. And I don't know if it's a humble brag or whatever, but so, you know, the rarity of that is, is okay. And it's okay to go on kind of like a solo mission to try to chase those things down or a small group where everyone's got that mentality. But when you've got the energy of everybody catching fish and somebody catches their first ground trout, right? Like all of a sudden, like, man, how amazing you never caught one. How great, like it doesn't matter what size. And then, and so it kind of goes into the, even in the microcosm of fishing with a group, you have, everybody's at a different point in that arc that we're talking about. And so some people will love that, like, Hey, as a group, we caught 50 fish. And then someone will be like, Hey, I caught the biggest fish. So you get a lot of different energies in that kind of that group setting. And, and that's, that's a lot of fun. And I think that fun extends to like what we're talking about. You kind of get to the moment where it's okay to be sharing fishing or even teaching, right? Like, Hey, what do I, what should I put on here? I don't know. You go, Oh, this is what's worked for me. And you can pass a little bit of that knowledge around and then you see it work. And then that excitement build for them. And then you get excitement from it. So yeah, I love the idea of being able to fish with lots of people more times than not. Because yeah, you know, and maybe to your point, right, if I'm going on a solo mission, you know, it's just whatever I feel like. So I already know I'm going to have a good time. It just depends on, you know, do I catch one or none? Let's be honest. There's a lot of times I don't catch any fish because I'm doing something silly or don't know what I'm doing or trying the wrong things. But so, yeah, I love the kind of the group energy you get. And, you know, again, I think because you get so many different perspectives on the water at the same time and measures of success.
Katie
Yeah. And I think just going back to like the arc and maybe we can start to get a little bit more linear because I kind of feel like this is actually maybe, I don't know, step four and a half or wherever. Just like fishing with people. It's just fun. Like you, you might just want to go have fun with your friends and you don't really care how it goes. You just want to be out there. And we can come back to this because I've got more, I definitely want to talk about with these stages, but going back to like the very first stage of just like wanting to catch a fish, I feel like the art kind of starts over when you pick up fly fishing. Like I'm sure maybe you do remember the very first fish you've ever caught. I don't remember the very first fish I caught. I do remember the first fish I caught on a fly rod. And I assume for a lot of people, that's just because they picked up fly fishing later in life. And a lot of people were too young to remember their very first fish. Do you happen to remember the first fish you've caught or just the first fish you caught in a fly rod?
Preston
You know, I probably don't remember the first fish of either. But, well, you know, I think as a little kid, I remember fishing and catching fish, but I don't remember specifically being this being my first fish. I was lucky enough that, you know, my dad grew up fly fishing. And so he kind of passed that along early enough that I dabbled, but I didn't really ever learn until I was in college. And I was in a summer school program in Taos, New Mexico, which was the best summer school program you could imagine. I mean, I was taking a class called mountain sports. And one of those sports was fly fishing. And at that point I had my own rod that my dad had given me in a reel and would, you know, kind of ask around for what do you use? But I still very vividly remember the first time then I went out on my own fly fishing, trying to catch fish. And most of the early expeditions during that summer were fruitless, right? Like I would watch fish, not catch them, scare them away, never have any luck. But then I remember one day I was on the Cimarron River and I had kind of just defaulted to a woolly booger. I was like, as a neophyte fly fisherman, this is the only fly I know the name of. So I'm going to put it on and casted it out a few times. And then all of a sudden I hooked up and I was like, I did that on my own. Like I did it. I cracked the code. I know how to do this now. And just remember what a great day that was. And I'm pretty positive that was the only fish I caught in like a three or four day span. But I remember that fish because it was like, oh, I get it. I get why people like to fly fish. And now I think I'm hooked on fishing in a new form again.
Katie
So you basically are saying that you probably caught a fish on a fly rod before that, technically, because you had dabbled. But this was the first one where you felt like I've taken up this new activity and I have figured it out. So it's like your honorary first fish on a fly rod.
Preston
Yeah, the honorary is a good way to put it. And definitely looking back, I probably thought I'd figured it out. And now I know I had not figured it out at all. But I still haven't. But it was a fun opportunity to catch a fish. And I just remember that day in the mountains and what a great day it was.
Katie
Well, I think that's probably why people go through that first stage of just wanting to catch a fish is that once you do, like you said, even if you're wrong about it, you think like, oh, I'm a fly fisherman now. I can do it. I know how to do it. And it's like, okay, you caught one fish. Like you could have caught that totally from luck. You know, you could have just been going to castigating. You accidentally hooked the fish. Not that it doesn't require some skill, but it doesn't mean that you really know what you're doing in the grand scheme of things, like maybe choosing flies correctly, matching the hatch, picking your depth, things like that. Like you don't actually know that yet, but it feels like, oh, I'm finally part of this activity. Like I'm part of this group and I know what I'm doing. And I think that's probably why that first stage is so important. Because even though fly fishing is fun, like casting is fun, making a drift is fun. Like all this is fun, but you're still moving toward the singular goal of catching a fish. And so I think that's, I don't know, you feel that sense of accomplishment that it's hard to match even later on. You could, I'm sure, with your giant brown trout, that was surely one of your biggest accomplishments. But probably at the time when you first caught that fish, you were probably almost dressed to catch that first fish at the time, just because you had no other frame of reference. You're just like, I'm getting started and I did it.
Preston
Yeah, you're right. Like that's still one of my greatest fishing memories, right? It's one that's lodged in my brain that will never go away. And so in the context of memories, it's still up there with this brown trout story. That's, you know, I think that's the thing about, you know, maybe the arc and the life cycle, right? it's, maybe it started over as a fly fisherman and, and, and yeah, any fish mattered. And then it became how many, because to your point, I could prove maybe that's not luck. If I can catch more than one, it wasn't an accident. It was on purpose. And maybe I've matched the hatch and I'm learning. And then it's like, okay, now I got to catch the most. Cause it gets, is for me, at least I get competitive. And so if someone else is fishing, like, oh, I caught 10. I'm like, ah, I got nine. I got to go get two more. And then it becomes another measure success of like, who's got the biggest. And so then you think, okay, well, I got to go catch the biggest. And then at some point, you realize that, yeah, it's fun to catch a lot of fish. And yeah, it's fun to catch a big fish. But really, the fun is in fishing, and just being out there. And then once you kind of have come to peace about that, then you just want to share those experiences, like we talked about with friends, with family. And so then it's any experience outside is great. And now I want to share that with other people and teach people what I've learned because it's not a competition anymore. It's just fun.
Katie
Right. And honestly, I know we're kind of skipping ahead here again, but bringing up the group again, I think this also comes down to the fact that when I think back, like there are fish that really stick in my mind, either the ones that got away, some of the biggest ones I've caught, some of the prettiest ones I've caught. but a lot of my favorite memories like when I'm when I'm sitting around the fire with my friends having a beer the things that come up are very rarely like remember that giant fish and it's more like remember that time you fell in and flooded your waders like it's a lot of the like memories that happen because you happen to be with people on the water that you end up remembering a lot more than a specific fish and like the fact that you got it to the net like that's kind of the icy on top of the cake or like what you you're working toward that but when you actually think back on it that outcome is not generally the first thing that comes to mind for me apart from like the big ones, like that brown trout you mentioned. Obviously, that's going to be kind of the top of the top for your memories. But most of the memories don't have to do with fish directly for me.
Preston
No, you're right. It's a shared experience. And that's what makes, in my opinion, life so great, right? It's the opportunity to share those experiences, right? That brown trout is a great fish. If I caught it by myself, it'd still be a great story. The fact that I got to share that experience with my wife, it just multiplies that. It's even better. And I can actually think of another story. And this was the one that got away. I was in Turks and Caicos, saltwater fly fishing. I knew very little about this, but we had actually gone out chasing bonefish. We're weighed in the flats. I was with my father-in-law and my brother-in-law. We'd all kind of spread out. And I had caught a couple small bonefish. And I look up and I see two tarpon cruising the flats. And we were told the tarpon really aren't even in the area. And so I assumed it was a tarpon. I could have been wrong, but I'm like, there's a tarpon. I cast, I cast, I cast, I cast. And of course it does what most saltwater fish seem to do. Ignore me. And it just kept swimming. Well, you know, an hour later we'd kind of gathered back up and I was sitting there with my father-in-law and I was explaining to him, I was like, Hey, I saw these two tarpon crews in the shallows. And he's like, I don't think they're supposed to be here. I was like, well, I don't know. I that's, I'm not an expert. I thought they were tarpon. And about that time we look up and here they are again. And they're cruising down towards us. And he's like, get ready, you know, get your, get your gear. So I get ready and let's be mindful. I'm bone fishing. I've got an eight weight, like light leader and, you know, a bone fish pattern on the end of this thing, but I'm not going to not try to catch the tarpon. And so about that time, they get in range and I make a cast, nothing. Make the next cast, nothing. Make another cast. And then finally, those two tarpon turn and start following my line. And I don't think we said anything, but we both just started getting excited. You're just like, oh, this could be it. And literally, six foot from us in the water, we're in thigh deep water. This tarpon takes my fly. And I hammer that hook set and it immediately burns my fingers with the line as it takes off tails. I'm trying to bow to the king, you know, like you see on TV. And then it goes another 60 feet and jumps and then goes and jumps. And by this time, somewhere my line has come out, which is good because I didn't have a backup eight weight line or rod. And so I was most likely going to lose everything or break my rod trying to fight this fish.
Katie
And how big is this fish, just for context?
Preston
I think we collectively decided it was probably in that 70 to 80 pound range. For me, it was a huge tarpon. And literally, if my father-in-law had not been sending shoulder to shoulder with me, no one would believe that story. Because you're just like, oh, you're bone fishing and you caught a tarpon? I'm sure we've all heard that fish story. And so then literally, that fish got away. And not even close to being caught. but hooked, tailed, jumped, you know, and we celebrated like we might've caught it. And, and, and like I said, thankfully my father-in-law is standing right there next to me going like, I can't believe that just happened. And I'm like, I can't believe it just happened. And, and I had someone to verify my story. So that was like, that shared experience was just really great. And that was another, you know, that's a fun memory, even though that fish got away.
Katie
I think it is really nice to have someone with you when the one that got away gets away. because yeah, there is that panic moment. And maybe this is like us caring too much about what other people think, but there's been some big fish that have gotten away when I'm by myself. And I'm like, oh no, no one's going to, no one's going to understand how like meaningful this was or how big this fish was. But when someone else is there to back you up and be like, no, it wasn't, it was a monster. I swear. There's just like some validation there. So you can be like, no, trust me. I'm not just like making this up or, or turn, making a mountain out of a molehill here with like a tiny fish that I'm convinced was 20 inches long.
Preston
Yeah. Oh, no. Well, that's right. Fishermen are notorious for the fish story. Like, oh, how big was it? It was this big. And we probably all do that a little bit when we're by ourselves, maybe not on purpose, just because of the excitement and misremembering. But yeah, when you have that independent third party to verify like, no, I saw it. This is what happened. It was amazing. Or yeah, they really botched it and messed it up it's it's good and like I said you get to share that experience and then when you're sitting around the campfire later yeah it's it's really not about the fish at all it's just about the story of the shared experience
Katie
yeah thinking about the the arc I don't have a ton to say about catching a lot of fish I feel like we all kind of understand why once you catch one like you said you want to you want that validation that you actually know what you're doing because if you can catch a lot of fish it indicates you're doing something right even if that right thing is just casting the same fly out in the same spot and there's a bunch of fish there at least you know you can tell yourself that you know what's going on but I feel like the the stage that kind of intrigues me the most is just the desire to catch a giant fish I think that's because there's just a lot there's a lot of different motivations I guess behind it you know some people might just want bragging rights on instagram some people really like the idea of like beating their personal best some people just want a big fight but I think what's what interests me about it kind of like the first stage of just wanting to catch a fish is that it's kind of out of your hands a little bit in that you could be the best fisherman in the world and you might only catch a 15-inch fish that day because there just wasn't anything bigger there to take your fly. Something could happen with the like maybe your line gets caught in a log under the water that you don't see and you don't land it and I feel like it's kind of under your control to catch a lot of fish. Like I can go out on a local brook trout stream and I can pretty much guarantee that I'm going to catch a lot of fish. But I can go out on a tailwater here that's full of big fish and I can't really guarantee that any of them are going to take my fly even if I'm really good at fishing. And I think that part kind of intrigues me and I feel like maybe that's what draws a lot of people to that. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that topic of just how, you know, of all the stages, I feel like that big fish one is the most out of your control. You know, you can control who you go fishing with. You fish, but some people go their whole lives without catching a giant fish, even if they're trying and they're going to the right spots and using the right flies.
Preston
Oh yeah. No, I think that's the, the allure of it. Right. I mean, I'm sure there's, you know, social media pride or, you know, you know, camaraderie of like, Oh, who's got the biggest one amongst a group of friends. But, but yeah, I think deep down, if we really acknowledge that there are things you can do right in it, that are well within your control, like, Hey, I got to make the right cast. I got to have the right fly. I got to be in the right spots, but no matter what you do, you can't make that fish eat. And so there is a, like an acknowledgement of circumstance and luck and being in the right time, the right place. And I think that's, that's, what's kind of extra special about it is that even if you're not the one catching the big fish or you are, especially you have to acknowledge like, Oh, maybe I did a lot of things right, but I still, there's a strong element of luck involved. And, and I've definitely been accused of having more than my fair share of luck when it comes to fishing. And, and I can't argue that that's like, oh, well, I guess you're right. Because I've been very upset about it. I'm not mad. I just, yeah, it's sorry. I guess it's just been a, I've been really lucky with fishing. So, but no, it's, yeah, you know, that's the, I think about like, even recently when I've gone out to catch a lot of fish, it's fun and you're and it's some well it can be repetitive at some point but it's still great catching fish but yeah when you're when you get that big one then all of a sudden it like heightens the focus of what you're doing in that moment and how do I try to catch this and and again you can do it all right and it still goes terribly wrong and that fish gets away or the line breaks and so So yeah, kind of whatever that just, I don't know what you even call it, right? There's those elements that are beyond your control with that fish or specifically a big fish that gives it that extra kind of allure of like, yeah, I want to go try that again.
Katie
Yeah. I think what you mentioned about luck, I'm not bothered by people who are lucky as long as they acknowledge they're lucky. However, I get immediately bothered by people who pretend that there is no luck involved. Don't get me wrong. Skill is a major, major factor in fishing. But there's people who act like that's the be-all end-all. And it's like, I've seen some really good fishermen have some pretty bad luck. And I've seen some pretty bad fishermen have some pretty good luck. And it's hard to argue that there's a little bit of both there. And don't get me wrong. I won't turn down a big fish caught on luck. You know, if I happened to catch the right fly in the right spot and I had no idea what I was doing there, not going to turn down catching a big fish. But I think there needs to be a little bit of humility in saying, hey, I didn't know what I was doing there. Like that was all luck. And, you know, somebody with like way better skills could come to the same place. And just because their fly landed four inches downstream of mine, you know, they might not have caught that fish.
Preston
Yeah. No, I think that's what I always like. The luck is preparation meets opportunity. Yep. You can do all the right things, but you still have to have opportunity present itself. And I'm not naive. There are definitely everywhere I fished, there's been a better fisherman there before me because I am no expert. I am no professional fisherman. So, yeah, I just, well, you know, I've heard it also said I'd rather be lucky than good. I abide by that. I'd rather be lucky than good because I know luck will get me a lot further than my skill.
Katie
I thought it'd be a little bit lucky and a little bit good, I think, but I see where you're coming from.
Preston
Yeah, fair point. Yeah, to at least pretend that I had something that I did to deserve it besides just being totally lucky is nice.
Katie
Do you think there's a point where people get stuck in this stage and it becomes, I don't want to say annoying because it just seems a little, I don't know, trivial, I guess. But there's like there's a specific person that comes to mind for me when I think of this. It's somebody who like a public figure who seems solely focused on basically like beating his own records. And something about it, even though I totally understand the desire to catch a big fish and I don't fault anyone for saying like, hey, I want to go catch a big fish today or being really excited about doing so. But something about this angler kind of rubs me the wrong way. And I can't put my finger on what it is apart from the fact that I feel like it's just that size matters more than anything. Um, and I feel like this could be a stage where people get stuck and they start to worry too much about size to the detriment of everything else. Have you had any similar feelings like that, where you think that sometimes this stage like sucks people up and it maybe hinders the rest of their progression as an angler and maybe limits some of the other experiences they could enjoy if they got out of this rut?
Preston
Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, I, I think we are living in a time where social media is just everywhere. And so all of a sudden it's, you know, it's all about the gram, right? Like, Hey, can I put a fish on here? That's bigger than the next guy. Look how great at fishing I am. Um, you know, my general impression is that they, they lack a little bit of that humility that you're talking about. Yeah. You, you may be a great fisherman. You may be able to cast the entire fly line. You're going to be able to give yourself more opportunities than me. Uh, but again, at the end of the day, you, you don't control that fish. You didn't make it eat. Maybe you put yourself in the right position when it happened to be hungry and it ate and you caught this great fish. Fantastic. But you're not in control of that fish. And so I think I would agree. Those, those are things that they're troublesome or they, they're, they used to be more bothersome to me, but now I just realized like, Hey, I, you're how you want to fish and how you want to approach fishing is not going to affect how I approach it. And so I don't lose much sleep over it. I definitely, you know, I guess being a, you know, consummate optimist that I hope that they progress through that. Right. Because what amazing knowledge and skills they'll have to share. And, actually I, I was fishing with my wife in Belize and we'd had a fun trip. We didn't catch a lot of fish. Um, but what was amazing, the guide that we had, had such a wealth of knowledge and was just always willing to share and never talked about, you know, how I do this or how he's like, Hey, try this or try that. And was always teaching. Well, turns out he's a unbelievable fly caster as so many are and so many can do, but I just never even seen it before. What his dad was also a guide at this place. He's like, Oh, you ought to ask Cesar to cast for you. He's, he's pretty good. And we're like, Oh, okay. Well, we were new to saltwater fishing. So I'm lucky if I can cast, you know, 60 feet with the wind. And this guy, if we finally like pull them up to the front of the boat, we're like, Hey, we want to see you cast. And in two strokes, one, two, he casts the entire fly line. And I'm still just like, I have a lot to learn. I got to get so much better. I didn't even know that was possible. And then he just kind of reels it back in, hands it back over. And you're just like, oh man, this guy could, like if I wanted to sit up here and talk about how good I am and whatever, he would just sit there and laugh at me because he knows like, well, yeah, not yet. You know, and so I think as good as there are that are people that are out there that want to let you know about it, there's these guys out there and girls out there that are just super humble and quiet and are equally good, if not better. And so, you know, it's always kind of, that's where I go to like find a little solace and like, oh, that guy caught a big fish. But there's plenty of other people that caught big fish that, you know, didn't rub it in anybody's faces. Yeah.
Katie
Yeah. And I, that's why I didn't really want to use the word annoying. Cause like you said, it, it's, it doesn't affect me at all. Like I'm, I'm not really personally annoyed by it. It's more, my thought is more like, I don't think I'd want to fish with that person, you know? But I feel like I almost feel a little bit bad for someone who's stuck in that stage just because there's an end point to it. Like if you only derive pleasure from beating your last fish, then at some point you're not going to beat it again. Like you're going to hit the end point. And I would, again, I would never turn down and catch my personal best fish ever. You know, I'd always opt for a bigger fish. But if that's where you derive the value of your fishing experience, then what happens when you max out? And worse, what happens when that happens really early? Like what happens when you're out on your third fishing trip and you happen to land a, you know, a 30 inch fish and you're like, I can't really go up from here. This is it. and I think you almost need to get out of that stage and progress on to some sort of more like I drive joy from teaching people or I drive joy from just being out my friends or whatever usually comes next after that or I just want to catch like a native fish or something like that that you can kind of control a little bit more
Preston
yeah no I think the a good thing can become a bad thing if that's your soul and only pursuit. And it's not bad to want to catch a big fish. It's not bad to want to catch a bigger fish and a bigger fish and a bigger fish. But if that's the only thing that motivates you and that's your sole focus, you're missing the bigger picture. You're missing the point. And you're right. There's an end to that. And I think when I've seen that, you can insert fish, fishing, hunting, whatever. I mean, it doesn't matter. It's like chasing, chasing a The biggest house, the fastest cars, the coolest clothing or whatever. I mean, that's a pursuit that plagues everybody. And I think it's maybe extra hurtful when I see it in things that I love, like fishing, maybe to your point. It doesn't affect me, but I just don't want them to think that that's, that's the end all be all of fishing. There's so much more to it. And so move past that, see the joy in sharing those experiences, because if it's always about you catching the biggest one, it's a competition, even when you're with people and then you're not willing to help because you're trying to outdo. And yeah, and I think that's, that's missing the point of maybe not just fishing, but life in general. And so, yeah, it's, it's okay for to be a fun and good pursuit. But if it's the only pursuit, then it becomes a bad thing.
Katie
And maybe it's worse during the time of social media. And only because I think that it could give this false perception to other people about what, what fishing is, or what are reasonable expectations. Like imagine getting on Instagram and you follow a couple of people who catch giant fish, which great for them, but then you catch a 12 inch fish and you just feel bad about it because you're like, this isn't good enough. Whereas that should be great. Like if you went out and caught a 12-inch fish and that's your first fish, like that's fantastic.
Preston
Oh, I'm always happy to catch a 12-inch fish anytime, right? You know, and I think that's, you know, I don't want to deviate too far from fishing, right? But like, I think that's a problem with social media in general. We're, well, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. If you want to look out and see what everyone else is doing and compare yourself to that, you're going to lose joy in whatever you're doing. And there's a lot of joy to be derived in just fishing, just catching a fish or some fish or maybe your biggest fish. But if you're gonna go compare that to everyone else, which is a by-product of social media, then again, it lends yourself to getting less joy out of something than would otherwise be there. And so I think that's the, you know, always been, you know, and I'm fortunate. I'm just old enough to have lived a big part of my life pre-social media. And now have this thing that I think can be a great tool too, right? Like I keep up with people that I would otherwise do a horrible job keeping up with. And so I kind of feel like I know what's going on in some of my friends' lives that I otherwise don't see very regularly. But it's got to be such a careful balance of, hey, I'm trying to keep up with their lives because I care about them, not keep up with everyone and what everyone's doing to be as joyful as people appear on social media. And so, and yeah, the reality is that that extends to fishing and how people want to talk about fishing. But yeah, I think the reality is you've got to do these things for you and because you enjoy them and enjoy being out on the river or the lake or the pond or whatever that fishing opportunity is. And, and I'm, like I said, I'm very fortunate enough now to have a four-year-old who will entertain going fishing with me. And I get to start kind of this whole cycle over again. And now it is any fish. If we can catch any fish, it's a good day. And, and probably before too long, it'll be how many can we catch? And, and I get to go through it all again. And so it'll be, you know, spin fishing for a while and maybe he'll, you know, pick up a fly rod one day too. And hopefully I can influence that. And yeah, we'll get to do kind of the whole thing again.
Katie
Yeah, I think maybe that's why the art tends to end on something like that, like teaching or sharing with others, because it allows you, especially if those people you're with are relatively new. Like I love going fishing with my experienced friends, but like I look forward someday to like maybe having a kid to fish with or even just taking someone who's really dying to pick up the sport. You get to experience the same joy they do because of how excited they are, even if you wouldn't be that excited to catch, you know, whatever bluegill you're out catching, you know, it's, I'll never turn down catching a fish, but there is something more exciting when it's with somebody who's honestly excited for their first fish versus, you know, I've caught a thousand bluegill before. It's not the end of the world if it gets away or whatever.
Preston
Yeah, no, I got to do that this summer. A good buddy of mine, I went to high school with him. You know, we went to different colleges. We, you know, it seems like a lifetime ago, you know, but then we got to reconnect because he had moved to Bozeman for the summer and he had not done a lot of fly fishing. I'm not trying to call him out like, oh, I'm a better fly fisherman than he is. I've just had more opportunity, a little more experience.
Katie
Just a couple more 30-inch brown trout under your belt.
Preston
Yeah, just that one on the wall. But anyway, he was like, hey, I just don't really know where to go or I'm learning. Let's go fishing. And I'm like, great. And actually, I think I was supposed to, I was flying out that day. So I was in town waiting on a late flight. And I was like, I've got a couple hours, like, let's go. So we went and fished and we went to a spot I know about, took him down there. Hey, what about this fly? Yeah, that one's not bad. Let's try this one. You know, just kind of walk through it all. And he caught a fish and then he caught another fish. And then he caught a very respectable, let me call it 15 inch brown trout, which he was elated about. And I was super excited about it. I was like, man, what? And like, that's another just fun fishing memory where first I probably wasn't going to get to fish. I did get to fish and I got to fish with him and really experience it and see it through his lens of like, okay, this is still all so new. And so it, you know, it just multiplied the joy that I got to experience because you got to experience it through this kind of new cycle with someone that's just learning for the first time.
Katie
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's pretty incredible how excited people get when they first get started. And it also makes you realize how jaded you've gotten in ways. Like I still get excited about a 15 inch brown trout, but not nearly as excited as he probably got that day.
Preston
Oh yeah. No, it's, and that's, and maybe that's part of the allure of the big fish is like you're like, well, maybe that, that one gets me a little more excited, but.
Katie
It's like being addicted to something. Oh no. And needing like a bigger and bigger hit every time.
Preston
Right. Yeah. No, it's, it's probably the best addiction that you could ask for though. Cause fishing takes you to some amazing places and it's outdoors and there's fresh air and water. So, no, but you're right. It's, you kind of keep chasing this unknown about fishing and, and what fish is out there and is there more, better, bigger? And, and, you know, and then like you, you start to think like, okay, I've got this figured out. And for me, then I'd go do some saltwater fishing and I go, Oh no, I, I don't, I don't have this figured out. I don't have it figured out at all.
Katie
Almost always chasing the next arc. Like let's start over again with something new.
Preston
Oh yeah. Cause it's fun. I mean, right. Like at the, at the end of the day, fishing is a lot of fun and being outside in these beautiful places is a lot of fun. And so, you know, I'll work to find a good excuse or not even that good of an excuse to go fishing and that's okay.
Katie
did you have any, like closing thoughts that we can get wrapped up here and, obviously share any, I don't, you said you kind of missed the social media generation a little bit, but if you have any social medias, you're welcome to share them if you want people to come see your fish pics or anything else.
Preston
Oh, no, you know, there's something about, I don't know. We always joke about kind of a media embargo on big fish because, as much as I love fishing and teaching other people to fish, I don't need any additional competition where I fish because I'm not good enough to outcompete anybody. So, but, but no, I'll, I'll send you a few pics Cause it's, it's, it's when I think back about, you know, my life thus far of fishing. And, and we've talked about this much. It's, I don't ever think of being like, I can remember times where I fished alone and had great days, but the memories that step out are, you know, Hey, fishing with my dad, catching the same fish as my buddy, who I think both of our dads were probably standing right behind us. Uh, you know, then fishing with friends, learning how to fish some more, you know, fishing with my wife, which is such a fun, like shared passion that we have and get to experience, fishing with my father-in-law and brother-in-law and other brother-in-law. And, and now getting to share that with my kids, like those are, those are the fishing memories that, that jump out and hopefully I get to have a lot more of those. Cause those are, those seem to be the most fun.
Katie
I'm sure you're getting into the prime of like the most fun fishing that you'll get to have with your kid as he gets, as he gets like a little bit more functional, able to do some more things on his own, you know, but, and it's getting probably a little bit more excited about going.
Preston
Oh yeah. No, he's, he's, he's always game to go. Maybe not the most proficient at reeling, definitely not casting. And then I've got a one-year-old daughter that will be right behind him. So I get to kind of restart all over. Yeah, I get to prolong that kind of the newness of it. Which, man, you know, it's funny. Like if someone told me one day you're going to be more excited about someone else fishing than you fishing, I'd have been like, no way. But now I'm in that stage and phase of life where I'm like, okay, I get it. That's why dad would take me and have more fun watching than fishing. And now I'm that guy. I'm that dad.
Katie
Well, it sounds like you got a lot of years ahead of getting to soak up that stage then.
Preston
No, we hope so.
Katie
Well Preston this was a lot of fun I'm glad I finally got to hear your brown trout story because I've had that picture in my email probably since our last episode came out so I'm glad to finally heard that and all the other stories you told so thanks so much for taking the time this evening
Preston
Yeah thanks for having me it's always fun to talk about fishing and appreciate you entertaining some of the stories
Katie
Oh I'm always happy to hear fishing stories so no worries there Alright guys thanks for listening don't forget to head over to the website fishuntamed.com and show notes. And also please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also, if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me. And I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening and I will be back in two weeks. Bye everybody.
Note:
These transcripts were created using AI to help make the podcast more accessible to all listeners, including those who are deaf or hard of hearing, or anyone who prefers to read rather than listen.
While I’ve reviewed each transcript to correct obvious errors, they may not be 100% accurate. In particular, moments with overlapping speech or unclear audio may not be transcribed word-for-word. However, every effort has been made to ensure that the core content and meaning are accurately represented.
Thank you for your understanding, and I hope these transcripts help you enjoy the podcast in the way that works best for you.