Ep 163: Fishing near Colorado Springs, with Kaitlin Boyer
Kaitlin Boyer is a guide at Angler’s Covey and the lead instructor for the Professional Fly Fishing Guide Program at Colorado Mountain College. She has been guiding in the Colorado Springs area for nearly a decade and has lots of experience on the “tougher” rivers in CO, such as the South Platte. In this episode, we talk about why she prefers time on the water without her kids, how brand deals can become exhausting, the hatches we get in CO, and fishing some of CO’s famous waters such as the South Platte and the Arkansas.
Instagram: @pixiek8
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing in the backcountry. This is episode 163 with Kaitlin Boyer on fishing near Colorado Springs. all right well I start every episode by getting a background on my guests and how they got into the outdoors and into fly fishing so I read a little bit of your bio ahead of time but I'd love to get it from you. How did you get introduced to the outdoors and specifically into fly fishing?
Kaitlin
Well, my dad basically is the one who exposed me to the outdoors growing up. And I had an older brother as well. And I just basically wanted to be doing whatever they were doing, whether it was camping or hiking Pikes Peak or dirt biking was kind of one of my favorite things to do with them. And my dad, we definitely fished growing up, but the fly fishing didn't come until a little bit later. And we started going on these camping trips after my parents bought a camp trailer. And my son, who is 17 now, was very little at the time, maybe two. And that's kind of when I started getting into it a little bit. And my dad taught me how to cast and things like that on these camping trips. And, you know, I enjoyed it, but it didn't like stick with me. You know, it wasn't until a few years later when I was in nursing school, I was very stressed and working hard. I needed an outlet to relieve my stress and started going fly fishing on, you know, on my downtime. And it really became kind of an obsession, I guess. So, but yeah, my dad is pretty much the root of my fly fishing experience. And he was a software engineer. And so the way he taught me was very like methodical and, you know, like the steps have to be like this. And I didn't really enjoy learning that way. So, you know, when I kind of came back to it, I had to kind of reteach myself in a way that I understood. And that's when it really clicked with me. And then I kind of full circle came back to my dad and now he's like my number one fishing buddy.
Katie
So that kind of answers what I was going to ask is like, do you think that you kind of needed that space from him to pick it up on your own as kind of like a way to push you forward? Like I know a lot of kids kind of resist doing things that their parents kind of make them do. It doesn't sound like you were super resistant to it, like you would go with him. But it sounds like you almost needed that space to explore it on your own for it to really like take off for you. Do you think it was a space from him or do you think it was just that his teaching style didn't quite like match up with what you needed?
Kaitlin
I think it was a little bit of both, honestly. It was a little bit of both. At that time, I was able to get a lot of hours in on the water when I was kind of relearning and it kind of felt like I almost kind of excelled above him because I had all that time on the water that he was still working, he hadn't retired yet. And now we're kind of flopping where he's retired and he gets to fish every day and I'm a full-time mom and I don't get the hours on the water that I want. And now whenever we go fishing, he always outfishes me. But yeah, it was kind of a combination of both.
Katie
Tell me about nursing school and kind of using fly fishing to deal with the stress of that. I feel like, you know, everyone who's listening to this probably knows the feeling of like fly fishing to kind of get away from the real world in some way. But, you know, how did that specifically help you kind of deal with the busy schedule and the stress?
Kaitlin
I think at the time it was so hard because I was kind of starting college late. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And then I became a mother really young. So I kind of had to figure it out. And a lot of the people and girls that I was in class with in school were five, ten years younger than me and were living at home and didn't have to work and could really focus on school and get those good grades. And I, at the time, was a single mom. And I was working nights at a bar and restaurant to kind of make ends meet and then trying to get A's in all these classes. And there's no room for error in those competitive programs. So I was struggling. I'm not really a science person. I'm definitely like I have really good practical skills. And I feel like I have pretty good people skills. And I feel like I care a lot about people. But the, you know, some of the science stuff was really hard for me. And I kind of just hit a wall, honestly, of like, is this worth, you know, sacrificing my mental health for, you know, I got to a point where, you know, taking these exams over and over and still not getting it right. And, you know, I started to just sneak off and go fish with friends. And then I found myself just not even caring anymore, you know, and just kind of pulled a 180 and was like, you know what, I'm going to try something different in school. And I ended up, you know, doing a minor in photography and, you know, wrapped up my associate's degree with what I had and did the outdoor leadership, part of the outdoor leadership program at Colorado Mountain College and completed the fly fishing guide certification and started guiding immediately. So and it felt really good because going from a program where I never felt like good enough, it was definitely like a confidence booster because at this point there weren't a lot of women on the water yet. So it was I was kind of like an anomaly almost where, you know, a lot of the local shops started to notice and be like, hey, would you like to guide for us sometime? And and that's when I was like, OK, maybe I could be a guide, you know. and it's worked out. I don't regret it at all.
Katie
Yeah, I was going to ask if you found that kind of like uniqueness being a woman on the water, like was it a hindrance to you or a help? But it sounds like it may have been in some ways a help because, you know, people were kind of looking for that. I assume it's a little bit different now. Like I bet there's a lot more women guiding, but at a time I bet there was like a kind of a desire to get women on staff. So it's like you you'd appeal to clientele who were looking for something like that.
Kaitlin
Right. Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't too long after that Orvis started the 50-50 initiative. And yeah, there was just like this huge influx of women wanting to learn how to fish. And I mean, I still hear it all. I mean, I was just yesterday I was at this little shop and this woman, I told her I was a fly fishing guide because I was buying these little fishy pajamas for my daughter. And she's like, oh, I did that once with my husband. And the guide, it just wasn't that great. And I'm like, yeah, because it's a different experience if you have a female guide. Because usually I feel like women clients just have completely different expectations in what their experience is than what men do. And I feel like a lot of male guides don't really know how to connect to that where they're like, you know, it's all about the fish and getting the fish and the fish and the fish and the fish. And it's really not about that for a lot of women. You know, it's more about the experience.
Katie
How have you been able to kind of harness that and like show them kind of what they're looking for? What would be a typical thing that a female client might look for? And how are you able to kind of satisfy that in a way that is still focused on the fishing, but in maybe a more holistic way that's not just on like we need to get a fish in the net right now?
Kaitlin
I think just being in nature and taking that time to be there. Women, we're so busy with our lives and our children if we have them and work. And it's so hard to carve out that time to actually just be in nature. So sometimes just that taking the actual trip and just like being in a beautiful canyon or standing in a river is like a lot for it means a lot to them. And I think that's kind of the first step, you know, is just like getting there and taking a break from the rest of life. And I don't know, it's really interesting. I've had so many beautiful connections with my female clients. And, you know, some that come to mind are, you know, one woman got extremely emotional one time during a trip and she, you know, she was just fishing and, you know, nymphing, drifting over and over. And she just got really teary at one point and said, you know, you remind me of my daughter who she overdosed on drugs and she's about your age. And I just think she would have really loved this. And she was just like really grateful and just kind of taking a moment to feel those things. And it was really beautiful to me that she was able to share that. And I see that a lot with the women. They sometimes grieve a little bit during it. Like, you know, me and my dad used to fish and he's, you know, not here anymore. And I can just really feel him with me today. And those kinds of things are just, there's nothing like it. It's just completely priceless to share an experience like that with someone. But I go, you know, it ranges from women who just want a really mellow experience to women who want, like, I want to Euro nymph.
Katie
Yeah.
Kaitlin
And I want to catch a brown and, you know, like where it's very specific. So it's fun kind of finding the different spectrum of it and being able to accommodate everyone's needs.
Katie
Yeah, I think what you said there highlights that this is obviously like a, this is a generalization and not everyone is the same. But I've heard this as a common sentiment amongst like female guides that their female clientele is often looking for something a little bit different than their male clientele. And they're looking for something that often can't be, they don't feel at least it can be provided by a male guide in many situations, even if it could. I mean, even if there is a very in touch with nature and the experience of being out there, male guide, if that's not the perception that people have when they join the trip, then they might not feel comfortable kind of like expressing that. So as much as I know this is a spectrum, this isn't the first time I've heard something very similar to what you're saying. Yeah. So I know these days you're wearing a lot of hats. You listed all kinds of stuff that you do now, guiding and being an instructor at Colorado Mountain College, bartending, fitness. Tell me how you balance all these things, plus, you know, obviously being a mom to an older child and a younger child at the same time.
Kaitlin
Yeah, really, I have no idea how I do it all. I mean, a lot of it in the off season is, you know, I have to find stuff to do and waiting tables or bartending. It's just kind of been my go-to winter job.
Katie
And what is your off season? Like what, what months are you…
Kaitlin
Basically like November to like the end of April.
Katie
Okay. Are you still guiding it all during that time?
Kaitlin
I do. If it's usually just regulars, if they want to go out in the freezing cold, but I usually don't do a ton of trips in the winter. But yeah, just off season it's, you know, doing whatever works with my schedule and whatever, you know, benefits my family financially. And yeah, so that's pretty much it. It's pretty exhausting. Right now it's kind of overlapping where I'm bartending, you know, on weekends. And then if I do get a random guide trip right now, trickling in, flip-flopping the hours is a little hard. Because, you know, some nights I'm at work till two in the morning and I don't go to bed until four. And then mornings that I'm guiding, I get up at four and, you know, I'm still dealing with a teething baby and all that. So it's, it's an ongoing thing.
Katie
Are you able to kind of control your own schedule when it comes to guiding? Like, are you able to take some trips and turn down some trips?
Kaitlin
Oh yeah. I have full autonomy of my schedule and, um, I'm definitely not guiding at the capacity that I was before I had my daughter. But she's only little for so long, and that's kind of my priority right now. In a few years, she'll be in school, and I can go back to it. But right now, it's like I'd rather be at home with her. And if I get some repeat clients that want to see me again or someone that requests me, I'm happy to take them out.
Katie
I do want to get into some of the fishing in your area what kinds of things you guide. But since we're on that topic, I was really interested in your hot take that you don't really like fishing with your kids because that's something, you know, kids are probably in our future. And I've talked to a lot of other parents and it's always about like, you know, how to get your kids fishing and, you know, fishing is not going to look the same, but I still want to bring them. And you're the first person I've heard say that like, I just want to go fishing and I don't want my kids to be there. So I'd love you to expand on that and tell me what the logic behind that is and why you feel that way.
Kaitlin
I didn't always feel this way. And there was definitely like a period of time where I was the parent or the girl on social media that was all about getting the kids out. But after I had Georgie, I'm just like, it's too hard getting out there with a baby. It's so exhausting. It's stressful. I mean, it's still enjoyable. but um I don't know I think I'm I've just moved past that where it's like I don't really get a lot of time on the water since I had her and so when I do I just I want to enjoy it for myself and not be you know chasing her or dealing with my husband doesn't fly fish so…
Katie
oh okay I was gonna ask like can you can you partner and you like take turns or something like that
Kaitlin
I mean no I mean he's pretty good like if we do bring her he'll hang out with her and stuff but she definitely like wants mommy most of the time yeah um and then with my son like I tried really hard to not force it on him growing up um and then he went through this phase where he really loved just like a spin rod with a worm you know and that was hard for me um and I would make him go and he just and he never really, it didn't click with him. And then when I started working at Dunn Hot Springs, he'd come with me during the summer and he would work there when he got old enough. And he worked in the kitchen and all of the chefs there fly fished. And then all of a sudden it was really cool. Sorry, there's a plane flying over right now. Yeah, all of a sudden fly fishing was really cool to him because all the chefs do it. And on our weekends, you know, we're down in the San Juan Mountains during that point. And there's just like endless opportunities to fish and a lot of like really small tributaries that don't really get fished. And, you know, it was the perfect opportunity to really get him into it. And so that kind of became our thing over the last few summers was just fishing these really small creeks and catching these pristine cutthroats. And so I feel like that's a little different because he's older now and he's, he's more independent when it comes to fishing. But when he was younger, it was a little harder. I had stepchildren at one point and it was interesting trying to bring all of them, you know, and keep them all entertained. And it was, it was hard. And now that I'm older and I'm just kind of, yeah, more selfish with my time. I'm like, it's for me. Like I want to go and enjoy it and not parent at the moment.
Katie
Yeah, the universal thing I've heard is that fishing doesn't look the same anymore. You need to adjust your expectations and be happy with maybe you take five casts and that is your day. And I could see where if you're like, well, if I'm just going to do that, then I don't really need to go.
Kaitlin
I'd rather just save my time, do kid stuff and then take some me time to go actually fish.
Katie
I could see both perspectives. Like if you really just like being out there and you don't really care if you catch a lot of fish or have a lot of time to yourself, then maybe it does involve bringing your kid with you. And if you're like, I would rather just go a couple times, but actually get to immerse myself in it and really fish the way I used to fish, then maybe a two-year-old isn't involved in that.
Kaitlin
Right. Yeah. And her time will come. And I'm not saying I won't ever bring her with me or anything like that. It's more like I'm not here to prove something to the Internet about being an adventure mom and, you know, exposing her and making her this like rock star fly fisherman. Like, that's not my goal. I want her to be herself. And I have a lot of respect for, you know, the parents out there that do take their their kids and are able to be successful at it and enjoy themselves. Like I have a lot of respect for that. It's just not quite for me right now.
Katie
You've mentioned a couple of times, like, you know, people, people showing this kind of lifestyle on social media. And you also mentioned ahead of time the struggle, the balance of, you know, being a guide and being a mom and also having these expectations as like an ambassador for companies and being active enough on social media. Do you feel like there is some kind of like expectation of displaying that certain lifestyle? Like when you have a baby that like you're now going to be bringing them out with you and kind of incorporating them in some sort of like social media brand? Or is that just kind of a personal thought of yours and not something that you've necessarily received expectations from the outside?
Kaitlin
I mean, I don't know. I've never like had a company specifically request content with kids. I mean, it's always around Mother's Day, I get the emails, you know, where they're like, hey, do you have any pictures of you with the kids or whatever? And it's like, oh, okay, you know. But no, I haven't really like, other than, you know, Mother's Day stuff, I haven't really gotten companies requesting that per se. But it's definitely just a really, I don't know how to explain it. It's a hard dynamic, I guess, just if you are committing to, you know, representing some companies, you have to follow through. And sometimes when you're a guide, you don't have the time to do it, to create the content. Like you're working, you're out there on the water doing it, you know? And I think that's where I feel like I've fallen off the map a little bit is I kind of transitioned into guiding full time in, I don't know, 2020 or 2021. And I don't carry my camera with me. I don't have the time to make content. And then I get these DMs from companies and I honestly, I just ignore them. Whereas the old me would have been like, sure, I'll try this cereal while I'm fishing and film it. And you know, like, it's like, now I'm just like, I actually do like that cereal, but I just don't want to do that. I can't catch fish without my Cheerios. Right. So I don't know. It's, it's just like a, another thing to balance for sure.
Katie
I've, I've talked to quite a few people who I'm sure have, you know, deals with various companies to promote them on social media, but I don't think I've ever actually talked to somebody about what that kind of looks like on the backend. And I'm not somebody who has any partnerships with any company, so I truly have no idea how it works. I'm just curious, especially because there's probably a lot of people listening who also have no idea how it works, but they are consumers of the content produced by people who have these brand deals. What does that look like when you work with a company to produce content for them? Like, what is it that's asked of you? You know, what are you expected to produce? And like, what kinds of things do you get in return? As much as you're willing to share, I'm not sure if that's an industry secret or anything, but I'm just really curious how that works.
Kaitlin
Honestly, it's different with every company. And in most cases, it's pretty vague. Like there's not really like a written contract or anything like you need to submit, you know, the X amount of photos per month and make this real. Like a lot of them aren't specific on that, really. Most of them.
Katie
I'm surprised. that there's not like a requirement of like this many posts per some time period
Kaitlin
and I mean I'm sure there are companies that are like that and that's kind of what maybe I expected going into it but it's pretty relaxed um which is it's nice but it's also like vague
Katie
It would almost be easier if they gave you like a list of things so then you're like I know I did it versus likeis this enough?
Kaitlin
Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it almost would be nicer knowing like what they expect from me. And then it just depends on the brand and like what kind of company they are. But you know, a lot of the pro deals with their ambassadors, they just a lot of them get like the guide pro deals, essentially, or, you know, random bonuses and things like that. It's not usually a lot of money. It's usually a lot of gear. So that's kind of nice, but it's also, I'm sure there's a lot of, there's people who make pretty good money, you know? I'm just not, you know, I'm not good at making reels and things like that. I just, yeah, I'm like a, I'm a millennial sort of like an older millennial or am I Gen X? I don't know. I'm like right on that cusp, you know, and I just, I don't like sitting and making reels. It's just like, it just like hurts my brain. You know, posting a picture is one thing, but like getting frustrated at a reel because the music isn't right. And I don't know, I just don't enjoy doing it. So I've kind of backed off from a lot of that.
Katie
Do most companies have kind of a, like I know you said they don't have, you know, you have to produce this much content over this time period, but do they have requirements like that about like what kind of content you're expected to create? Like, could you get away with just posting, you know, a photo a week, be talking about what you're using and why are you using it? Or is there kind of an expectation that you do some of that more involved stuff with reels? And I would be in the same boat. Like I've probably made like two reels in my life.
Kaitlin
Right. Yeah. I think, you know, sometimes like, like let's say they're launching a new product and they really want, you know, something specific for it. And they can kind of give you an idea of what they want. Like that's easier. Or like doing a takeover or something like that. But yeah, they're not always like super clear on it. But then again, it's been a while since I've been really active in that. So I don't know. I think it honestly depends on the brand and how organized they are and, you know, clear on what they want.
Katie
I think I know the answer to this based on the fact that you've said you've kind of like backed off it. But, you know, when you were more active in this kind of scene, were you feeling like a weird pull both ways where it was just like hard to want to get yourself to make this content when you're out there trying to guide and you know like it sounds like you were kind of doing it more as a chore than as like a pleasure thing um and I bet there's a lot of people in your same boat that are like you know they look like they're having such a great time and having fun and like repping this brand but really it's just like oh my god I have to get this content in before I go to bed tonight like what was that like for you were you ever like really into it or was it always kind of like a chore that you had?
Kaitlin
I think I really enjoyed it at first. The first few years, I did really enjoy it. And that's when I started, you know, doing photography and just enjoyed getting to know my camera and, you know, the composition and things like that. I really enjoyed that. and then I think once I started guiding more and more and more it just and not and I wasn't getting that personal time on the water because I was guiding more so it's like you know sometimes when you're guiding a lot you're like the last thing you want to do is pick up a fly rod and go fishing and tie more knots and tie more flies on um so it there was I think that transition happened when, when I was, you know, my, my guiding was really picking up and I kind of realized like, this is, this isn't where I want to go and fly fishing is as a, like, I don't really feel like being a brand ambassador is, um, as fulfilling as being a guide. Guiding is more important to me.
Katie
I'm guessing most people would agree with you on that. Like, I feel like brand ambassadorship is something people do to subsidize what they're doing, like get the gear that they need. But, I would assume most people would say I'm a guide first and I do this as kind of like a supplemental thing. I don't know anyone personally who is like, you know, I just really love making content for brands. Who's not like in marketing, you know, like that.
Kaitlin
Right.
Katie
If that's what you're into, then you're going to go be in like marketing and communications.
Kaitlin
Right. It's just not my thing anymore, you know.
Katie
Yeah. I mean, different phases of life. Like, I'm sure like being a, not that you worked a mom before, but it sounds like you kind of like reentered motherhood in a way where you're suddenly parenting a young child.
Kaitlin
I was almost done and then I had to do it all over again.
Katie
Well, I want to hear a little bit about the fishing in your area. I saw that you're from Manitou and I was actually in Manitou for the first time recently to do the incline, which I don't know if I'll ever do it again, but it was a checklist item that we went down to do. I'm up in the Denver area, so we're not too far away. But I've never done any fishing down in the Colorado Springs area. I'm usually heading west into the mountains, but I know the Arkansas is down near you. I'm not sure if that's like one of your main spots, but I'd love to hear just like what fishing looks like in your part of the state.
Kaitlin
Yeah. So our main, um, rivers are going to be the South Platte and the Arkansas. So those are the two kind of, uh, main rivers in the area. And I guide on both, um, I'm on the plat more, I think as a guide. Um, and you know, I love being in 11 mile Canyon. That's probably my favorite place to, to guide because that's where I learned how to fish. And it's just, Everyone loves it. It's always beautiful. It's always pretty fishy. And, you know, the Dreamstream, Deckers.
Katie
All the classics.
Kaitlin
Yeah, all the classics. And then the Arkansas. I really love the Arkansas. We've got the Tailwater in Pueblo. And it's pretty straightforward. it's mostly technical nymphing and definitely kind of a good place to go in the winter because it's a little bit warmer down that way it's gotten a little crowded over the last few years I feel like but pretty much everywhere has and so that's kind of like where I got I like guiding on lakes too Um, we've got the North Slope Recreation Area and the South Slope Recreation Area. The North Slope, we have permits on. And at one point I lived in Cascade, which is where the entrance to the Pikes Peak Highway is. And so I would, I would convince my clients to do basically all my trips there. Because it was so close to home. I wouldn't have to get their waders because we would just wear hiking boots or sandals and just kind of walk the shore. And people love that because it's really beautiful views of Pikes Peak. And the fishing's always pretty good. Good, easy half day for families. And a lot of them would finish and then drive up to the top of Pikes Peak or whatever. So, yeah, that's kind of it. When I'm teaching in Leadville, the Arkansas headwaters I'm really passionate about. I love it up there. I've fished up there pretty extensively. So I always look forward to being up there and fishing that area.
Katie
How does the South Platte compare to the Arkansas tailwater compared to the Arkansas freestone section upstream? Like, how do those three differ? And like, if you're trying to figure out where a client might want to go, like if they're booking you, but they're like, I don't know, I just want to go fishing. Like, how are you kind of sussing out the differences between those and figuring out like where would be a good place to take somebody?
Kaitlin
So I don't know. I feel like the big difference is really like, you know, the South Platte and the Arkansas Tailwater, they're both tailwaters. So, you know, it's a lot of nymphing, which isn't my favorite, but it's the most productive way of fishing. And I think the biggest difference between the two is honestly the scenery. You know, the tailwater, it's not bad. It's, you know, it's got a lot of elms and cottonwoods lining the banks and a lot of birds down there. Osprey, you see a lot of osprey, which is really cool. And then, like I said, in the winter, it's just a little warmer. It's actually a lot warmer than going up into the mountains and trying to fish. So I think that's the big difference. And then the freestone, I mean, you've got completely different aquatic bugs going on. So you're going to see a lot more stones and caddis and bigger bugs and the fish really hold close to the bank. And I prefer that. I enjoy, you know, figuring it out. And I love runoff and big water and tailwaters. It's, you know, it's kind of unpredictable where you never know when they're going to dump and if they do. And so, yeah, I think that those are kind of the big differences for me, but I prefer a freestone, honestly.
Katie
Yeah. I was talking to somebody recently about the differences between freestones and tailwaters. And we got into the discussion of people talk about freestone, stones like they're unpredictable because in some ways they are. I mean, they're at the mercy of the weather, whereas tailwaters are, you know, it's, you kind of know what you're going to get, but in some ways tailwaters are more unpredictable because you can't rely on being like, well, it rained, so like water's going to go up or where in May runoffs are going to be coming down from the mountains. Like if they decide to let water out on a weird schedule that you're not aware of, like you might get hit with some random like flood-like event that you had no way of knowing without, I guess, like keeping track of you know their water release schedule which you might not know until it's happening um so in some ways tailwaters are like slightly more chaotic than than freestones which you know are at the mercy of other factors but it's usually factors that you can kind of predict in in some kind of way like right this time of year you know the water's going to be higher that's just how it is and it's going to be that way every single year um just a matter of like how much higher so it's kind of interesting how how they they're both chaotic but in different ways
Kaitlin
right yeah I mean, I've been guiding at Deckers and all of a sudden the water's just like extremely turbid all of a sudden. And there's like random stuff floating downstream. And I'm like, oh, they just released a lot of water. Great. But, you know, at Angler's Covey, we have pretty good communications with, you know, whatever agencies running it, whether it's utilities or Denver Water, whatever. Or, you know, like I feel like my boss is really good about keeping us up to date on like, by the way, they're releasing water today. Or by the way, they're shutting it off or, you know. So usually we know, but sometimes, yeah, you never know if it's going to happen.
Katie
Yeah, I'm speaking more, I guess, to the hobby angler who's like, I feel like fishing today. I'm going to go hit, you know, my favorite tailwater section who's not quite in the know as much or, you know, paying attention to all those different things.
Kaitlin
Or doesn't look at flows.
Katie
Right.
Kaitlin
It doesn't look at all, it just goes out. Yeah, it just jumped like a thousand CFS. Like, great.
Katie
For somebody who is visiting Colorado, I know I asked you Arkansas versus South Platte, but South Platte is like pretty famous and pretty well known around the country. I would guess that even people living on the East Coast and the West Coast have heard of things like Deckers and the Dream Stream and Cheeseman Canyon and these kinds of places. If somebody were coming to Colorado and thinks like, well, that's a good place to start because, you know, I know the South Platte has fish. I know it's really fishy. I know it's a popular place to go. Could you give some like tips or advice on kind of choosing a section to go to based on like what someone might be looking for? Like, are there differences between the different sections beyond just how it looks that somebody might want to take into consideration if they were planning a trip out here?
Kaitlin
Yeah, I don't know. I would probably like encourage them not to fish in the South Platte.
Katie
I personally agree, but I'm just picturing somebody who's coming to Colorado for the first time and they're like, they're deer in a headlights and they're like I don't know how to plan like a you know a trip to some random little stream in the middle of the mountains like I'm I'm googling like where to fish in Colorado
Kaitlin
get a guide you know because fishing the South Platte is not easy
Katie
well maybe this is your piece of advice then like like give someone advice yeah give someone the dish like what are they gonna encounter if they follow Google's recommendation and come fish the South Platte.
Kaitlin
Yeah, they're in for a rude awakening, honestly, because, you know, you're fishing with size 22 midges and, you know, you're elbow to elbow some days and it can be unpleasant. Not to say it's a great fishery, you know. All sections are beautiful and they have their own good qualities. My boss has said this before, you know, if you can catch a fish on the south plat, you can catch a fish anywhere because it's one of the most technical rivers in the country. And so I always kind of tell people going into it, you know, lower your expectations because, you know, it definitely takes a skill set. So usually I tell people to go to 11 Mile Canyon just because it is beautiful to drive through. It has, you know, a lot of space to kind of figure out, you know, like if it's crowded up here, maybe it's not down there. Whereas Decker's, it doesn't quite have the space. So yeah, I usually send people to the canyon, honestly, because it's just, it's that like classic Colorado fly fishing experience, you know. And then, you know, the Arkansas is also really technical. The upper Arkansas is, if you don't know how to fish a freestone, it is hard. It took me a long time to figure it out. But I don't know. It's nice once you're getting into dries and stuff and things are a little, you can at least see where the fish are coming up and things like that. But yeah, usually I'm pretty honest with people about this place. I'm like, it's not like Alaska. I get that a lot where their you know clients or whoever is like oh I was in Alaska and we were catching them every drift and it's like well this isn't Alaska it's Colorado
Katie
That's a very frustrating thing. I used to do some guiding too and the number of times I heard someone say like well I went to such and such place and I'm like well guess what that's not where you are right now so like if you expect every place to be like that from here on out like you're in for a rude awakening because like the first place you ever went was like on a drift boat trip in Montana so like right I don't know how to break it to you but like not everything is, you know, heaven on earth.
Kaitlin
Right. Yeah. It's, it's hard dealing with clients like that, that just don't understand, you know, how things are different everywhere. Not all fisheries are the same.
Katie
So maybe twisting it a bit, if someone were coming to Colorado and, and let's say they're not, they're not going to book a guided trip. So you're, you're not pressured to be like, Hey, come book a trip with us. Where would, where would you send somebody? Or what kind of advice would you give them for picking a spot to go fish that would not be as like want to bash your head against a wall as much as trying to fish the south plat for the first time on your own without a guide like what would what would be your recommendation for somebody to come here get on some fish have a good time and experience like what Colorado has to offer
Kaitlin
that's hard
Katie
it doesn't have to be a specific location either this is just kind of a general like what to look for
Kaitlin
it's tricky because it's like there's not really like a place in Colorado that's like Montana or Alaska. It's like all pretty. I don't know, to me, it's a lot of, it's mostly a lot of like technical tailwaters and stuff. But one thing I always tell people, you know, catching a salmon fly hatch is just an incredible experience. And if you can, I always recommend that, you know, on the Colorado or on the Gunny or wherever has one. That's just always an incredible experience I recommend to people. If you can plan last minute and wait for some resource or intel to let you know, like, hey, it's happening. I got a text from a friend today. He sent me a picture of a salmon fly and he's like, it's happening. It's starting. And it's like, okay, I'm going to drop everything and drive four hours now.
Katie
That's the hard part. If somebody's traveling in is hitting it just right. And just for the record, this will probably come out much later. We're recording it now on May 21st. So in 2025, May 21st-ish is when they're starting to pop. But, you know, it's a little bit different every year. And, you know, when it starts is not necessarily when it peaks. And there's all kinds of things. So planning around it, I mean, you got to kind of hope for the best and see what you get. But that's kind of all part of the fun is sometimes you hit it right on. Sometimes you miss it completely. And maybe you catch some Mother's Day caddis or some other kind of consolation prize.
Kaitlin
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, the Mother's Day caddis is not on Mother's Day anymore. That's for sure.
Katie
What are, just to wrap up, what are some of the hatches that you typically get on South Platte, Arkansas, both tailwater and freestone sections? I know it's probably pretty similar to what we have here, but for somebody who's not from around here, you know, what kind of hatches are they going to be looking at?
Kaitlin
So on the South Platte, tricos are a really big thing. Midges, BWOs, pale morning duns, some yellow sallies.
Katie
Roughly what time of year are some of these big ones happening?
Kaitlin
Oh gosh. You know, summer usually, you know, in the winter we'll see little midge hatches And then, yeah, we do see caddis as well quite a bit in the summer. And then again, it also is just like the time of day, you know, like the trico hatch in the canyon in the summer is anywhere from 10 in the morning to one in the afternoon. Not really that late, but usually somewhere in the morning when things start to warm up. And the Arkansas, you're definitely going to see more stonefly hatches and caddis hatches. You'll also see BWOs and things like that. And again, that's mostly summer. So yeah, I mean, you see some hatches in the winter, but just not like you do in the summer. Sure.
Katie
Well, just to wrap up, where can people find you? I know you've mentioned it a couple of times. If people wanted to book a trip with you or follow you online, where can they do all these
Kaitlin
You can just follow me on Instagram. It's @pixiek8. And if you look at the Anglers Covey website under guides, you can see my profile there and request me and I'll probably take you out if you request me.
Katie
Onto the South Platte that you don't recommend.
Kaitlin
Right, exactly. I know.
Katie
But that's the key to having a good day in the South Platte is going with somebody who knows what they're doing. Because I haven't fished the South Platte very much because it's not my type of scene for the most part. But the days I have had, I can attest to the fact that they are a challenge. And they'll probably improve your skills, but you might not come out of it with a ton of fish. So going with somebody who knows what they're doing is probably the way to go if you're not super in touch with the technical side of the South Platte.
Kaitlin
Right. I mean, it's honestly hit or miss. I have really incredible days where it's just like, you know, 20 fish. And then you have days where it's just like one bite, you know, it's hit or miss. But, you know, my favorite time of year on the South Platte is in the spring. So like March, April, even late February on the Dream Stream is pretty good. But I didn't say that.
Katie
Now you're going to be working through the winter as people come out in February.
Kaitlin
Well, Kaitlin, it's great to meet you. I don't know, maybe we'll cross paths one of these days. I'm not too far north of you. But it's great to meet you and thank you for coming on.
Kaitlin
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Katie
All right, that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. You'll also find the contact link there if you want to reach out to me. And you can also find me on Instagram @fishuntamed. If you want to support the show, you can give it a follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app. And if you'd like to leave a review, it would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise, thank you all again for listening. I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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