Ep 164: Fishing the Wind River Area, with Jeramie Prine
Jeramie Prine is the owner and head guide of Dunoir Fishing Adventures near Dubois, WY. In this episode, we discuss fishing in the Wind River area, including seasons, hatches, species, and different types of water, as well as grizzly safety and the importance of protecting our public lands.
Website: www.dunoirfishing.com
Instagram: @dunoirfishingadventures
Facebook: /wyomingflyfishguides
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for Fly Fish in the Backcountry. This is episode 164 with Jeramie Prine on Fishing the Wind River Area. Well, I start every episode by getting a background on how my guests got into the introduced to the out and specifically into fly fishing. And I saw that you had a kind of a cool history with your great-grandfather and your grandmother. So I'd love to hear kind of that history and how you got introduced to the outdoors.
Jeramie
Yeah, so we've my family's owned the Rams Horn Guest Ranch in outside of Dubois on the way to Jackson Hole for 7 years. Really, I was introduced to fly fishing through our guest ranch. We take guests out as a little kid, and we had a beaver pond not too far from here that I grew up. fishing on and my uncle was a ranch fishing guide as well and I remember getting my first fly rod by the corrals and I was eight years old and I was kind of told, like, this is how it's going to be. And I, you know, I embraced it. It's something that's definitely become a passion. I still tie flies on my great grandfather's fly tying vise. He he mounted it on an old hardwood, and um then my grandparents were avid anglers as well. just really instilled that love of being outdoors and fly fishing. And I owe everything to my family for getting me involved in the sport of fly fishing.
Katie
So when you were eight years old and given a fly rod, was it kind of like were you excited about that? Or was that kind of a you didn't have a choice and that's where your life was going, whether you liked it or not?
Jeramie
Yeah, I mean, it was definitely like a rite of passage. I was super pr to embrace it. And I remember getting lessons from my uncle down by the corral. I knew that it would have a profound effect on my life at that point. And I just kind of I felt like a big kid at that point that I was given that honor to take up the art of fly fishing.
Katie
Had you ever used a spinrod before? Or was it straight to fly fishing for you?
Jeramie
Oh, no, no. I mean, I grew up right in the lawn chair sitting on a reservoir looking at a bobber. I'm using worms. We used worms a lot. My grandmother, she loved using a fly rod with a worm if things were going really bad on some of the creeks. And she she kind of earned that right to do that, especially when she got older into her eighties. And um she was fishing all all the way up into her nineties. So, um yeah, it was it was that progression, right? And uh It's something that I've instilled in my own children as well. We don't have to be complete purists, but it's important to be able to fish all sorts of different techniques.
Katie
I don't hear about grandmothers too often as kind of like the catalyst for what get people started. It 's often like a dad. Occasionally it's a mom, but n normally it's a dad or a grandfather. What was it like having your grandmother be the Kind of the catalyst for you?
Jeramie
It was awesome. She really kind of got me going just by getting me out on the water quite a bit and then fly. She loved tying flies as well. and kind of introducing me to that and giving me some equipment to get going as far as tying flies and some patterns that we tie locally. It was just it was gentle and not forced at all, and I really appreciated that. And I've tried to kind of instill that in what we do up here in our guiding with guests and customers.
Katie
Yeah, I I think that's a good approach. And I know we'll get probably get into the fishing and the guiding that you do, but I think more guides could kind of take a lesson from that of like let's make this fun and inviting and not like we have to catch this fish, we have you have to be doing this, you have to do it this way. I think a lot of people, especially beginners, like They need a little bit of that kind of nurturing side to get them interested in it. It sounds like you said you've done the same thing for your kids. Have they taken an interest in it too?
Jeramie
They have. They're both avid anglers. My son is kind of, I feel like. He especially is taking it to the next level. My daughter, she's very much, she likes going when the weather's perfect and the fish are biting. But she's a heck of an angler. I've always wanted to kind of get her involved in the guide life. But she's busy at university right now and life is busy. But yeah, my son shows a lot of promise and just like I said, taking things to a whole new level and trying everything out. I learn a lot from him whenever we go as well. And he's only sixteen years old. I'm looking forward to the future with the family. I think she'll eventually come around, my daughter. But she still loves it, and she has great patience as well.
Katie
Before we get into the actual like fishing, kind of like telling people what it's like to fish around your area of Wyoming, tell me a little bit about like what you guide. What rivers are you guiding? What kinds of things are you fishing for? Stuff like that.
Jeramie
So our guide service really focuses on what I call the Golden Triangle of Wyoming, which would encompass Lander, DuBois and Thermopolis. I am within an hour, an hour and fifteen minutes of some of the best fishing in the state of Wyoming, hands down. So I'm very lucky that we have quick access to all those different fisheries. And they're quite diverse. And really for me, it starts up here in DuBois, where The Wend River starts on Tog and it trickles down the Wend River drainage and then goes into Boys Reservoir and then into Wend River Canyon and then becoming the Bighorn. So we really fish the majority of that drainage. and kind of base a lot of our trips out of there, which is exciting. So it's spread out, but and we offer everything from weight fishing and DuBois. That's kind of our bread and butter in DuBois. Getting up into the high mountain streams and the tributaries of the Wind River, and then getting in drift boats on the Bighorn River in Therm. And we do a little bit on the Green River below Fontenelle as well. We really we cover everything, and we have a lot of water that we can adapt our trips to meet our customers' needs.
Katie
I know like we kind of got connected because you guys do a lot of kind of like more backcountry stuff. It's not all it's like you said, it's not all the drift boat, big river stuff. You're also going up into the tributaries. Do you do any like alpine lake stuff? Or are you not quite in that part of the state?
Jeramie
No, absolutely. We have a couple really special lakes that we hit. One is a cutthroat trout fishery. Where there's some fantastic cutthroat in there, right kind of near the Tok Pass area, and we definitely hit those lakes. We have a couple other lakes that One lake in particular holds what I would consider record browns for our area. And those brown trout have not been stocked since about the sixties or seventies. So those are all wild fish. Really, we really focus a lot on wild fish and kind of stay away from the put and take reservoirs and lakes. But yeah, we definitely have a couple of little hidden gems that we like taking people.
Katie
Are your brown trout in like a kind of a more high alpine lake or are they in the lower level kind of reservoir bodies of water? I was just thinking here like we don't have…I don't see browns a lot in the kind of higher alpine stuff. They're kind of down in the lower creeks and lower reservoirs.
Jeramie
Yeah, and that would be the same here as well. Although we do get a few browns that will run out of the Wind River and they'll head up the tributaries, and they are lower on the tributaries, but you're still in the mountains catching brown trout in some pretty spectacular country. really. So and there's great cutthroat trout fishing in that same drainage that I'm thinking about.
Katie
Do you have rainbows and brooks too? Or are browns and cutthroats your kind of primary uh species you're going after?
Jeramie
No, on the Wind in the Wind River, we definitely have rainbows. Um those are mostly a lot of them are stocked, some of them are natural. Um and then in the tributaries there's a couple where we get a few brook as well that they will they'll go they go high up into the mountains. So it's not uncommon to catch a brook trout along with cutthroats on some of those higher waters that we fish in the mountains.
Katie
Yeah, we get the same thing here. The brookies are up higher. Um I was just talking to somebody else uh who is in Wyoming or sorry, not Wyoming, uh Washington. And she said that they don't have a lot of brookies up there. Um they've got like kind of a different set of species. And it was interesting to me, like, which states have kind of gone with which species. Like, I mean, they're all non-natives, um, but it like some states have chosen some over others. And like Colorado seems to have like really had a love affair with brook trout at some point because that's like if you're not catching cutthroats high up, like you're probably gonna find brook trout. That's like the two that we get.
Jeramie
Yeah. Yeah, our fisheries here around DuBois, it's illegal to kill cutthroat trout. The game and fish has been working really hard to establish a really healthy native population. And a lot of work is going into that between the Game and Fish and Trout Unlimited, some of our chapters, and really pushing that, which is great to see that conservation effort being made. To keep the native population healthy and strong and really focus on that.
Katie
What kind of cutthroats do you have? What subspecies?
Jeramie
So we have a Yellowstone cutthroat trout and That's what's in our drainage here in DuBois. Down on the Bighorn, they kind of those are stocked more, and so you'll get a couple different species. On the Green River. uh it's the Colorado cutthroat. Um but in Dew the majority of what we do is is the Yellowstone cutthroat.
Katie
I don't know how much you'll have to say on the Yellowstone versus the other subspecies, like whether you have experience with them or not or just if they if they're actually that much different. But do you have anything notable to say about the Yellowstone cut compared to any other subspecies that would make it you know, if someone came there to catch that subspecies, would they find anything special about that?
Jeramie
Well, I mean, just the location where you're finding them in the mountains is super special and rewarding. And then when you catch them on a dry fly, right, in pristine wilderness-like settings. And then the colors. They are super golden and they have the bigger black spots on them. They're just an absolutely gorgeous fish that loves to come to the surface and eat, which everybody loves, right? Everybody loves dry fly fishing. and they make it pretty easy to be caught most of the time. They have a strange take that takes a little bit of getting used to with setting a hook. But no, they're they're just they're they're like gold. They literally come out of the water. Gin clear water is as super golden. And those colors, they're kind of like a brown in that regard. where they're just the features that they have is spectacular. So that's what I like about.
Katie
What 's special about the way they take a fly?
Jeramie
Oh, you know, it's really easy when you're fishing and you're matching hatches or not matching hatches and you're getting good drifts, and then all of a sudden Here comes the Yellowstone cutthroat, just real slow, coming up for the take. And you have to be patient. It's kind of like a tarpon. Let them take the fly. And you can't have these quick hook sets. You got to let them eat it. And that's really hard, you know, when you're excited to catch a fish. And once you kind of get that timing and that patience down. then things will start coming together for people.
Katie
Yeah, you'd think that being able to see the fish coming would make it easier because you'd have like kind of more information to work with. And I like, if I see the fish coming, I almost need look away for a second. Peek back at it to see if it actually rose yet because I 'm notorious for like setting way too soon.
Jeramie
Yeah, yeah. And then, right, you can wait too long too. And it's just that fine balance of getting that hook set down and. And yeah, it just takes a little bit of time and a little bit of practice and catching a few of them to really kind of get dialed in on'em.
Katie
Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more about the the fishing itself and kind of like I I always like to go with like seasons, you know, what what people might expect in different seasons and the different techniques that you'd use for specific species, but also specific species within those different seasons. So maybe I'll kind of let you lead the way, but I'll just frame it as I'd love to hear kind of a year-round cycle description of of what the fishing's gonna be like and what you're gonna be doing at each time of year to catch, you know, fish in the bigger rivers, fishing in the Alpine lakes, the streams. Just kind of fill me in on what you're doing.
Jeramie
Yes, so we're getting ready to get into our prime season for the Wade Fishing trips in DuBois on the tributaries to the Wind River. And we wait for runoff, right? And during that runoff time, we're in driftboats. When the waters are high, we're down on the Bighorn and the Green River, really focusing on driftboat fishing. It's good. It's starting to get mossy and grassy, so we still continue trips throughout the summer on our tailwaters. It just changes. It turns more into dry dropper and less nymph fishing on the tailwaters. As we get into July. July to about the beginning of first week of September weeks of September, we're really focusing on our high mountain. walk and wait trips, cutthroat trout fishing, matching hatches, 100% dry fly fishing. We will throw dry droppers and nymphs, but I've really me personally, I've gotten away from that a little bit. I really like trying to match the hatch and just keep it simple with one fly. So that that will go into the fall. And then as fall starts coming and the weather starts hitting the high mountain stuff, we get snowstorms in September and that kills kills the dry fly fishing once we start getting a hard freeze going on. It still happens. It just really slows down. the catching. So we'll start slowly translating over into back to the tailwaters again and fishing those. Our high alpine lakes, we you know, we do those upon request. Or if all of the tributaries are blown out, we always have something to back up and fish when we have guided trips going out. There's more than you could fish on that. So and then, yeah, the fall is back to tailwaters. The winter is all tailwater fishing and a little bit of hard water fishing, a little bit of ice fishing during the Or two, but we can fly fish 12 months a year here in Wyoming if you focus on those tailwaters and are willing to put on a few extra layers of clothing.
Katie
I'll go a little bit deeper into each one of these seasons and kind of ask like how you're picking it apart. So starting with run, since that's kind of I know we're just past it, or it sounds like you're just past it, but um, what I know you're probably throwing nymphs mostly during uh run. What what kinds of things are you throwing for fish during that time?
Jeramie
So nymphs are like… Right now, I'm going to be on our walk and wait trips on our free stones, I'm going to be throwing more streamers, to be honest with you. Just the basic bugger patterns, nothing too big you want to be careful about. I mean, we're not throwing anything articulated. And we will do a little bit of Euro nymphing as well as things start clearing up. But we're really kind of throwing those attractor patterns, trying to catch the attention, get those flies right in front of the fish's face with the high water. Right now, they're going to be holding in really soft water up against the banks and just kind of finding places where they're protected and out of that heavy current. They're couch potatoes. They don't want to work too hard for their food. So that's what we're focused on right now. you know, in the next couple of weeks, it will be dry droppers. We'll be running droppers about oh, two to three feet behind, you know, like big chubbies. some of those bigger att patterns. And as we see heads coming up, then we start matching hatches. We have pretty good hatches that are going to start happening. kind of starting with the stonefly hatch, and that will come and go throughout the summer, those hatches. So Yeah, we really focus on that this time of year. And then as it gets colder, we go to more nymph under indicators. So not up in DuBois, but on our tail.
Katie
And are you still are you using streamers for cutthroats as well? Will they hunt down a streamer?
Jeramie
We do. I do that pretty limited, just when it's heavy water, big water, and then it's one hundred percent dry fly fishing at that point. So it's going to be a short kind of streamer season here. And we can continue on the big river, like the Wind River. Streamers can work really well on that. But the tributaries, we go a little bit more delicate with our patterns. and not so aggressive. They seem to always be hungry, which is nice.
Katie
What what kind of size are these tributaries? Um I I don't know how you can really give me like a sense of scale, but uh I feel like there's there's there's like in my mind kind of three levels. There like a big big river, there's like a stream you could jump across and then there kind of like what I feel like I see the most. at least in our mountains in Colorado, which is kind of a, I don't know, maybe ten to fifteen feet wide kind of stream. But like where on this kind of spectrum are your tributaries falling?
Jeramie
So just depending on where you're you're fishing the tributaries. We have one that we go clear to the to the it's a trailhead essentially, and that's going to be anywhere from five to ten feet. It's small. And there are a lot of cutthroats in there, and it feels more like spring fed creek fishing. It's that small. But then, yeah, it kind of what you were talking about, that fifteen to twenty foot mark is what we're looking for on the tributaries, getting plenty of water. And then as we get to the Wind River, then it's a big river. It's not as big as a tail water at that point. But it's still pretty pretty heavy. All of our stream crossings, we use the buddy system here in Wyoming because it it's strong enough to push you. And so we're really cognizant on being safe and not falling in the water. But even the smaller stuff, like we're going to buddy cross and just keep people safe. So but the the tributaries for the most part, yeah, I mean, there are places where they can get a little heavy, but other places it's it's not that bad because they're shallow enough to cross. But so they're not huge.
Katie
What uh what time of year does runoff typically start and end for you? It sounds like you might be a little bit delayed from us. Like we we still have some runoff going on, but I feel like we're about done with it here.
Jeramie
Yeah, so some of the stuff we fish is almost at ten thousand feet. And even getting to those locations in the spring, you just can't because of the snowpack and the roads are not maintained. we can start getting on those at the end of June. And then usually what I tell all of my guests in DuBois spring run is pretty safe by after July fourth, and things are in their prime at that point. And we experience spring runoff on the Bighorn as well, depending on what happens in the Wind River and the Absaroka Mountains. If we get a real big heavy year, then that's going to affect our tailwaters because that all spills into the Wind River, both of those mountain ranges. This year, it's been really, really mellow. We're not having a huge runoff. It's subsiding a little bit earlier. Like things are pretty much ready to fish at this point. So Just depends on how much snowpack we get.
Katie
Yeah, is this a low snow year for you guys too?
Jeramie
Yeah, I mean, we're sitting at about 90%, but we're coming off of, at least in the Ab Mountains here, we're coming off of Kind of a drought year last year, so a lot of the water it's not running off, it's just soaking directly into the ground. It's yeah, it's a little scary. I mean, we we need more water, but it's gonna it'll be a good season. It's just gonna start a little bit earlier. And I get a lot of guests that ask about Hood and if we change our fishing as the summer goes. And we'll start a little bit earlier. But with our elevation here, our waters stay nice and cold and they're coming right out of the mountains. So it's not as it's not as dangerous for the trout here. um, as it is in other places like in Montana that have hoo ow restrictions.
Katie
Yeah, that's uh something nice here too. I mean, uh, down down in the Denver area for sure, it gets really hot, but um, that's it's kind of a great excuse to go to the mountains like you't really have to worry about it when you're at like 10,000, 11,000 feet. Like if you're above tree line, they're good.
Jeramie
Exactly.
Katie
Going back to kind of the seasonality, um, tell me more about your hatches during the summer. Like, what's hatching in roughly what what month?
Jeramie
Yeah, I mean, like I said, we're going to have stonefly hatches kind of throughout the summer. They're going to get started really July, the beginning of July, the stonefly hatch. Caddis have already started going off. I'm thinking mostly are freest right now. And then PMDs, right? Those will those are going to go throughout the summer. And then, you know, we're really with the PMDs and some of our Mayflies, we get some Mayfly hatches where like purple haze is the ticket for a lot of the summer. Just kind of Doing an attractor that kind of represents a mayfly. When the stonefly hatch is kind of finished, then we're going over those mayfly patterns, caddis, flies like that. So and then the tailwaters, that's a whole different beast, right? So we don't, at least on the Bighorn, it’s tricos in the spring, and then we have yellow sallies that happen on that river. And then as we get into the fall, it's blue-winged all the patches. Very weather dependent.
Katie
I know this isn't quite a hatch, but I was surprised to not hear you mention terrestrials at all. Do you guys use any like big hoppers or anything? Or is that not as much of a thing up there?
Jeramie
Yeah, so that that's going to be our stoneflies, right? We predominantly use chubbies, tan and black chubbies. I've gotten to the point where I'm using micro chubbies. I have a dear friend who ties flies for me that He ties a wicked micro chubby pattern that is gonna it could be a grasshopper, which we get, it could be a stonefly. So that's been kind of our go-to pattern up here. And then just doing variations of that to give them something different to look at than what other than what's just sold in the store, I think, is super important. And that goes for every fishery, at least that we fish around here.
Katie
Yeah, do those rivers get hit pretty hard, at least the kind of the bigger ones?
Jeramie
Yes, our tailwaters have gotten really busy, and some of our freestones are getting busier. There's a couple of spots around DuBois that, yeah, we've seen an increase in traffic for sure. COVID helped. with that. And for me, it's just great seeing people out and enjoying it. But we also really focus hard on avoiding people as much as possible because that's the experience that we're trying to give to our guests. We live in a beautiful part of the country, and we want them to not be overrun with other anglers. And we have so much water that we're able to make those adjustments as we need to.
Katie
Yes, what is most of your clientele coming for? Like, are they kind of focused on catching the bigger fish in the tailwaters? Do you get a lot of people who are really asking for that backcountry experience? Is it a a mix?
Jeramie
Yes, so I get a mix bag. In the spring and the fall, it's my it's tailwater anglers predominantly. In the summer, it's I would say ninety five percent of our clientele wants to get up into the mountains and dry fly fish for cutthroat. And that's what we really focus on. And then we'll the beauty about where we are, we can be up in the mountains at eight thousand feet and then we can go hit a tailwater the next day if we plan trips right. And so there's just it's kind of a mixed bag for sure. But summertime, 100% were fishing free stones, and then the kind of the off seasons were on the tail waters fishing for bigger fish. And the people who come to the mountains they have a really good understanding of it's not the size of the fish, but they want to catch a beautiful wild trout in the mountains, and that's what we really aim to provide for them.
Katie
Yeah, what what do you personally like about the backcountry? I that's kind of how I came to hear about you was that you had mentioned like doing a lot of backcountry fishing. So what is it for you that really draws you to that?
Jeramie
To be honest with you, I feel like getting into guiding and starting my company, it was a driftboat that kind of won my heart over. But then as I don't know, as I was doing a lot of driftboat trips, it's always wonderful to get back and just walk in the mountains and Experience what the mountains have to offer. For me, it's like getting back to being that eight-year-old kid again, right? It feels like That's what really developed the love for fishing. It wasn't the driftboat fishing. It was walking and wading in the mountains and spending time with family and catching beautiful fish in the process. To me, it's really special to come off of out of a driftboat and just the simplicity of walk and weight is it it's very special. It holds a special place in my heart. And I like that I have both options so I don't get stale on one. You know, kind of meshing those two styles of fishing at times and taking those experiences from both. Freestones and and tailwaters, um, it it's great. But yeah, the walk and wade is is very special for me in the mountains.
Katie
Yeah, I I don't think anyone would turn down catching a big fish on a tailwater it's just it's just fun. But in in some ways it almost feels like the rat race of the fishing world. Like, especially when you go to a river and it just like driftboat after driftboat after driftboat, like it it almost feels like you're a cog in a machine when you've tried to leave that to go fishing for the day and you're back in it to to an extent. So Um, I feel the same way. They're like just kind of having the freedom to go wherever you want and and you know, you look upstream, it looks good, you could just keep going and see what's up around the next bend.
Jeramie:
Yeah there’s nothing quite like it.
Katie
Um you mentioned fishing beaver ponds as a kid. Do you guys have uh many beaver ponds up there on your tribs that you can like fish while you're out?
Jeramie
We used to. Um the one beaver pond that we fished was just off of private and um Yeah, I mean that that that place is has a long history and a long story, which we no longer fish anymore, unfortunately. Just westward expansion and people buying, and there are not a lot. I know I grew up in Cheyenne, Wyoming, in the winter times, and then I'd spend my summers here on the guest ranch. And there was a lot of stuff around Cheyenne, around the Vitavoo area, that we'd go we'd try to find some beaver ponds there and mostly brook trout fishing. And in Fremont County, we definitely have a few beaver ponds, but it's not something that I focus too much on anymore.
Katie
That's interesting. I feel like we've our beaver ponds here have like exploded. I don’t know if like beavers are just doing really well, but I feel like when I go to the mountains it like I'm surrounded by beaver ponds. Sometimes to the point where I like I would like to find a stream to fish, but like I have to wade through all these beaver ponds to get to it. I love fishing beaver ponds. Um you're right though, it feels like brook trout were like made for beaver ponds. I don’t know what it is about those two two things that go together, but I I rarely see anything but a brook trout or the occasional brown that'll like slip into one from probably from the stream. But yeah, I don I don't know why that Brook trout are like built for beaver ponds in a way that other species don't seem to be.
Jeramie
Yeah.
Katie
Um, I want to ask about some of the things that you mentioned ahead of time. Um, one of them being grizzlies. Uh, being grizzly country is not something I have to deal with here. and it's not something that's on my mind, but I feel like it would be very much on my mind coming up your your way. How big of an issue is it and what do you do to mitigate it?
Jeramie
Um, so it's serious. I tell everybody that I any who's new to the area, especially, and even Some people, even me. We were cleaning some trail yesterday and my dad reminded, like, hey, you better grab your bear sp. I get really complacent and maybe dangerously so just because I'm so used to them here. To me, it's like being in Africa where there's big cats. We have them. They're all around, especially in the DuBois area. And to me, it's a special part of the trip. I do a tremendous amount of hunting, and I'll do it alone, which is not necessarily the best thing to do. I don't recommend that for anybody who's listening. go out with a buddy. And that's a big part of how we mitigate it. There's studies that if you have four or more people, then your chances of seeing a grizzly bear are pretty slim. Most of our bears that we see on our fishing trips are going to be from the car, crossing the road, driving into some of these higher up tributaries. We see them on the river early season before they've moved up into the high country looking for Miller moths. And so we always carry a bear spray. People ask about carrying sidearms. I personally don't. Unless if I'm hunting, I don't carry a sidearm, but I always have bear spray. I make sure that all of our guests have bear spray and know how to use it. and are proficient with it. And kind of we have a protocol, we have a safety protocol before we go out on any trips, kind of what we do if we run into a bear. And so that's very much a part of our operating plan is keeping people safe and educating them on how to kind of Keep bears at bay and not attract bears and create human wildlife conflict. That's all a part of the experience that we get to teach our guests when they come to fish with us, and it's super rewarding. Most people are really apprehensive about it at first. But once you start fishing, you know how it is. You get that tunnel vision. And I just let people know, hey, we're your eyes, we're your ears. We're going to keep you safe. And Keeping within eyes of one another is super important when we're fishing in some of these areas, and just taking care of each other and not getting separated. And making noise. We make a lot of noise. We have a couple of places where we're in thick forest before we get to the river. There's willows and We do a lot of yelling before we enter those areas. And bears they don't want to have any interactions usually with us as well. And being cognizant if there's something dead that they're feeding on, normally you can smell that. It's just using all of your senses as soon as you step out of the car and onto the river, kind of what is in your surrounding. And avoiding any hazards that could potentially make bears behave maybe a little more aggressively than they would if they just bumped into you a hundred yards away, you know, and they're kind of mind their own business. So It's a very real issue that that it makes this place special. And there are not a lot of places like that anymore. And yeah, I I love the bears and the wolves and the mountain lions and and it's just yeah, it's a part of the experience for sure. And I think it adds a little bit to the flare. But like I said, most people they become very calm and very like they don't worry too much about it once they get fishing.
Katie
So what's your what's your reasoning behind bear spray over a sidearm? At least for for guests, I assume it's it's a matter of, you know, everyone can use bear spray. Not everyone is going to be proficient enough with a firearm. Is is that your logic or do you think bear spray is kind of the more effective technique? For anybody? Because I've heard both things. I'm just curious what your reasoning is
Jeramie
I mean, I think anybody who works with bears or around bears here in Wyoming, my friend is the large carnivore biologists with the game and fish, and he would tell you bear sp. The thing about firearms is the amount of training it takes to be accurate under a stressful situation. And the it you have to be accurate if you're going to use it. And the bear spray is nice because you don't have to be deadly accurate. It it plumes up in about thirty feet. And as long as you get it fired off in their general direction, they're going to taste it, and you don't have to be super accurate. I just yeah, unless you're law enforcement or you're very comfortable with a sidearm, I don't recommend it. Bear spray works wonders.
Katie
Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who like the idea of carrying a sidearm because it feels like, I don't know, more badass in a way, I guess. But um, everything I've heard has been that, like, bear spray is just as effective, but it takes a lot less skill. So I yeah, I was just curious what your what your thoughts behind that were.
Jeramie
Yeah, and I I do like I said, I carry a sidearm when I'm hunting, but never fishing. I just don't want that responsibility, and I don't want that around my clients necessarily. Some clients love it, right? And they come out for that experience and they like seeing the sidearm. And that's great. Maybe it makes them, like you said, feel a little bit more comfortable. When I'm hunting, I always say the bear spray is for the bear, and then my sidearm is for myself if things go really bad. And I'm joking, of course, but It's it's yeah, it's the bear spray is extremely effective and and accurate, and they do not like it. So I'll go with that hands down over a sidearm any day.
Katie
What kinds of things do you hunt?
Jeramie
So I most I predominantly hunt elk and deer, and then I do a little bit of waterfowl hunting and a little bit of up hunting in the fall and the winter. But yeah, elk hunting is is it's a culture, it's a lifestyle around here where we live, and um it's very much ingrained in the culture and and For me, it's not about antlers, but feeding my family organic food that I know where their food came from. And I just really enjoy that aspect.
Katie
Are you an archery hunter or a rifle hunter?
Jeramie
I do both. Yep. I've gotten into archery hunting for sure, just extending that season and And, you know, I really love archery hunting, and it's a lot like fly fishing. It's just that connection with With the animal, it's more personable. And for me, archery hunting is not necessarily harvesting or killing. It's interacting with the elk and talking with elk and finding them and can you know, trying to fool them into thinking you're something else. Yeah, that that's great. And then, you know, if we can't get it done during archery season, then yeah, I'll rifle hunt. My kids both rifle hunt at this point. So Yeah, my son's right on the edge of archery hunting, and this will be kind of his we went out last year and we got into some elk and He's kind of chosen not to archery hunt elk right now, but but focus on deer with archery.
Katie
So how does it work? Tag-wise, you know, if you said if it doesn't go well with archery, you can, then you pick up a rifle. Are you able to get a tag pretty easily for both? You don't have to have kind of put in ahead of time for one?
Jeramie
Yeah, exactly. So The areas where I hunt, it's all general. So being a resident, I can buy an over the counter tag. Those traditionally start September first for archery. Some of the areas like there's a little later starting date up here in DuBois, it's the fifteenth of September. And then October is kind of the beginning of rifle season. So if you haven't had success in September, then it's time to switch over. The only I mean, we put in for some special areas for elk, but predominantly, we just we're hunting public land, which is a general tag. And then we always put in for late season cow calf elk, which is that is a draw, and it's pretty easy to draw that as a resident. And both my kids and I drew that tag this year. So, we're not going to fill all those tags. If we can get an elk and a deer, we're pretty happy for the year.
Katie
Is the elk cutting pretty good in Wyoming?
Jeramie
Yeah, it's really good. We have a lot of areas to hunt. I in the winter time, I move back down to Lander where my winter residence is, and I'm able to hunt arch ten minutes from my house and start calling elk and talking to el, which is great. And then I feel like the bigger elk are kind of between DuBois and Jackson Hole. And that season is, yeah, it's just I can hunt. I will legitimately start hunting in September and I could end hunting mid November. So that's what I like about archery. It just extends my time at the mountains.
Katie
And how about the duck hunting? Is the duck hunting good up there? We've been elk hunting for a long time, but we've been we're newish to duck hunting. It's kind of our new like it's it's the newest shiny thing that we did, so we're not very good at it yet, but um so I'm always eager to like find out where other people have luck duck hunting. I have no idea what it's like in other states.
Jeramie
Yeah, so Fremont, we do most of our our duck hunting in Fremont County, kind of around the Riverton area, Boys area. There's some wildlife management areas that have ponds, holding ponds for ducks. Early season can be great. And then we will move over to fields. One of my guides, he runs a waterfowl operation in Fremont County. And so I'm really fortunate to be able to join him because he has all the leases on the fields and we're predominantly hunting fields there. And then We'll get over to the Bighorn and float the Bighorn and set up blinds on the Bighorn River. And you know, the best duck hunting really is in Fremont County though. It's phenomenal. You have tornadoes of ducks coming down and They're just coming in on the feeds, and it's super exciting. And then getting to watch his dogs work. And we're in the process of training a black lab right now as well. Just, yeah, it's awesome. I'm right there with you. It's a lot of fun. And I'd say my son and I are not very good at it, but we've been experimenting and finding Some success, and I think it's just getting out right and trying to figure it out. But yeah, we have decent hunting. I mean The best waterfowl hunting is kind of in the southeastern part of the state, the Torrington area.
Katie
Yeah, um, that makes sense because ours is in kind of the northeastern part of Colorado, so that's kind of overlaps with what you're talking about.
Jeramie
Yep, yeah. But there's still some opportunities for public hunts around Fremont County, which is great. They're harder, you know, to hit the public areas, but I kind of like that challenge too.
Katie
Yeah. Well, that's a good transition to the last thing I know we're going to talk about today, which is kind of a kind of a sad thing happening right now. I don't know what the state of it's gonna be when this comes out um I usually record a couple of months ahead, so things could be entirely different. when we're recording this, we're right in the middle of the potential public land sale, one of many that have that have happened. but kind of end of June 2025, things are very hectic right now. So I'd just love to hear kind of your thoughts on the importance of public lands, what what people can do, because I'm sure this isn't the last time that they're going to be you know, potentially threatened or up for sale. So, um, maybe just a kind of a general PSA of like what people can do to protect public lands, I I feel like everyone who listens to this has gotta be a public land advocate. Um I't know where else to go. you know, backcountry fishing if you don't have that. So I'll let you take it away.
Jeramie
So yeah, I think kind of the I mean, what I've tried to do is just get educated by reading as many articles and getting everybody's perspective. on on the issue. You know, it was it was Tom Rosenbauer. He shot a with the new fly fisher. He came out and fished with me and and you know, he wore the T sh. The public lands t-shirt that he uh I think that should be in a shrine someplace for sure. But um, that's when the issue really started coming to light for me through Tom Rosenbauer and then Yeah, just getting educated on the issue. One of my guides has been really an advocate for public lands and writing to newspapers and getting as much information into people's eyes and hearts as possible. It's a really, really sad issue that we would even consider selling public lands. And that's I just don't even know how we got here, to be honest with you. Money, but some of the ideas at least that are coming out here in Wyoming, they just It doesn't make any sense to be selling off those public lands. It's a huge resource for our state. Recreation is a huge resource for generating revenue in the state. And it just. I think we all need to become public land warriors. If we're out fishing or hunting or snowmobiling or whatever you do outside, without those public lands, we're going to lose a part of our Western heritage, I feel like. And so just being an advocate and talking to senators and calling senators and writing letters. Doing the Fish Untamed podcast. I think all of that helps with just educating people on how serious of an issue i it is and how much we need to stand up. and protect our public lands.
Katie
Yeah, I think another good point is to not bubble ourselves into our little cocoons. Like I feel like I see a lot of stuff from hunters and it's it kind of they act like they're the only people that care about public lands and I see the skiers and they are kind of under the impression that they're the people that care about public lands and I'm like we all have like different I mean, most people do all kinds of things. I mean I I every season I'm doing something different on public land. And I'm a skier one time of the year, I a fisherman in the summer, I’m a hunter in the fall. but like kind of remembering that like we we're all on the same team right now for this one thing and to not kind of section ourselves off into groups that aren't talking to each other. Uh I feel like we have a a much bigger collective voice than I think a lot of people realize. And whatever differences we normally have kind of un for this front right now is just a a big deal. And like I said, this is going to come out probably a while from now, so I have no idea what the state of this is going to be. This has been an ongoing issue for what feels like years. It it feels like it's kind of at its peak right now, but um I'm sure that once this passes then there's just going to be another thing that comes up.
Jeramie
Yeah. Well, I just I mean, I think all we enjoy public lands, right? But we have to think beyond just like a number that deals with money and how it's going to help out our nation. We need to be thinking about our children and our grandchildren and their grandchildren. I want future generations to be able to enjoy the things that I've been able to enjoy because it's been such an integral part of my life and really shaped who I am as a person. I just want to be sure that I do everything in my power to help protect those public lands and educating people. And I think we do that. with guide trips too, when we're guiding in the guide industry or the outdoor industry, really pushing that. And I see a lot of people coming together in that aspect. And you're right, it's we have to come become united on the issue. And I see it happening here in Wyoming as well. And it makes me happy that people from both sides of the aisle especially are are kind of on board together in this, and we just have to be sure that we're voicing our feelings to the people who are making the laws and the rules and not backing down from that.
Katie
Absolutely. Well, on that semi sad and semi-optimistic, hopefully, note, is there anything you want to leave folks with? website people can can book a trip with you or any parting thoughts or messages that you want to kind of share with people?
Jeramie
Well, no, I just want to thank you for bringing me on. Uh, Fish Untamed. I really appreciate this time getting to talk to you. It's nice to uh yeah, have a little bit of social life in between all the hectic schedules and and trying to make all the all the wheels turn. So I really appreciate that. I love talking, fishing and hunting and just being outside. And so I appreciate you bringing me me on Fish Untamed. And yeah, if if anyone's interested in a trip, you can go to dun. And we have Instagram and Facebook. But yeah, it's Yeah, protect public lands. I'd get back to that again. So that's kind of the big issue.
Katie
Great message. Well, Jeramie, I really appreciate you taking the time for this as well. I don't think we've talked to Wyoming too much on this show, so it's fun to connect with somebody from up north, and maybe we'll cross paths sometime. Only one state away, so thanks again for taking time for this.
Jeramie
Yeah, thank you, Katie. I appreciate the opportunity.
Katie
All right, that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. You'll also find a contact link there if you want to reach out to me. And you can also find me on Instagram @fishuntamed. If you want to support the show, you can give it a follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app. And if you'd like to leave a review, It would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise, thank you all again for listening. I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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