Ep 130: Fly Fishing in the UK and Staying Grounded on the Water, with Marina Gibson
Marina Gibson grew up fishing many of the well known streams of the UK. After traveling and fishing much of the world, she returned home and founded The Northern Fishing School, where anglers of all skill levels come to learn more about casting and fishing. She also recently released a book: Cast, Catch, Release: Finding Serenity and Purpose through Fly Fishing. In this episode we talk about her journey through fly fishing and the opportunities she has fishing for salmon in the UK.
Instagram: @marinagibsonfishing
Northern Fishing School: link
Book: link
-
Katie
You’re listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 130 with Marina Gibson on fly fishing in the UK and staying grounded on the water. Well, I start every episode by getting a background on my guests and how they got introduced to fishing. And I know we're going to kind of go through your book, which kind of covers that. So let's just start with how you got introduced to fishing and we'll kind of take it from there and talk about where you've come since then.
Marina
Thanks for having me, Katie. really, really kind of you. I started fishing when I was five years old. I mean, when I say that, it doesn't mean that I was fishing since five and I was out there the whole time. It was something that was like an activity that was ingrained in our family environment because my mum and dad really loved fishing, especially my mum actually. She was really, really obsessed with salmon fishing growing up. And so we used to spend a lot of time in Scotland and I learned how to fish with a double-handed rod for salmon when I was eight. So that's when we had our first, or I had my first lesson. My brother was a little bit older. And yeah, so I was, I was kind of born into fishing, but not the industry more as a pastime. And I've actually been talking to a lot of people about sort of how it feels to be a woman in still a male dominated industry and community. I'm not sure what it's like over there, but I think when I was growing up, I would, you know, watch my mom go out there the whole time and fish. And so that barrier was broken down for me. And I kind of didn't even think that it was male dominated at all, because I saw her and a few other women, her friends fishing, and I didn't really think anything of it. I didn't come into it later in life and have to navigate that barrier, which probably would have been a little bit harder. But yeah, very lucky to have a family who loved fishing when I was growing up.
Katie
I feel the same way. I didn't experience any sort of – I can get the feel that it was male dominated until I was older and actually going to shops by myself and experiencing that. And I also, granted, have not experienced a lot of negative things. We can maybe get into that if you have. But overall, I would say my interactions are overwhelmingly positive. But as a kid, yeah, it didn't come up. I was fishing by myself or with people I chose to fish with. So that was something that I also never experienced as a kid. So I'm glad to hear that you had the same experience. What's the culture around that like in the UK? You mentioned that you don't know what it's like here, and I kind of feel the same way for you. I've never experienced UK fishing culture, but is it kind of that older, keep things close to the chest and not let new people in feel?
Marina
I think that it's changed a lot. You only have to look into initiatives and organizations like the Angling Trust, Get Into Fishing. so many amazing, amazing ways to get into fishing and people who are helping connect people. So I think that right now it is the most inclusive it's ever been in its history. And actually the timing of this podcast is quite good because I was at a book festival called the Hay Festival. And this was in the UK. And I was talking to the interviewer called Horatio and he was asking me great questions and it then came up that he asked how is it like being a woman in a still quite male dominated world. And I said, you know, as I said to you, it's changed over the years and there's so many initiatives to get into fishing and people are making it more accessible for everyone than perhaps before. We've got a lot of still water fishing as well, which is very accessible for a lot of people. And basically, I said to him in tongue in cheek, but there is a fly fishers club in London, which you can only be a member of if you're a man. And so someone in the media must be listening to all the interviews going on at the book festival and have picked up on this comment or conversation that we were having. And I woke up two mornings ago and it was all over the newspaper, like front page, I had a million calls from different newspapers and radios and TV asking to talk to me about it. It's something that has been a kind of joke over the years. I did actually send an email to the secretary last year asking whether they're considering opening it up for women. It was a polite decline at that time, but he said that things will probably change. It's an interesting time right now because a lot of our men-only clubs, whether that's fishing or dining or meeting up are starting to accept women. It would be really interesting to see whether the Fly Fishers Club do change because it's such a staple venue. It's beautiful. It's got archives, collectibles, things that you can go in and get lost in for a day or even two. When you go to a place like this, you interact with people, you talk about conservation, you brainstorm about things. I think that if fishing was just for men, it wouldn't be the same because women bring a totally different aspect and vice versa. Together, you're even stronger and more powerful, especially for the future of the sport as well.
Katie
Yeah, I agree completely. I mean, I've got a great group of women who I fish with, but I also have a great group that I fish with and I wouldn't feel like I had a complete circle of people if I didn't have both of those different perspectives in my life. So hoping that things continue to progress, but I agree with you, I think things are better than they've ever been. And like I said, the vast majority of interactions I have are positive and that's what I hear from most people as well. So I'm glad we're still moving in the right direction.
Marina
Do you have any men-only fly fishing clubs in the US? Do you know of any?
Katie
I don't. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I am not aware of them. And I guess my feelings on them are a little mixed because I do know that there are women-only fly fishing clubs. And I get that there's a little bit of a different need for that. There's not the safety feeling. I don't feel like most men are worried about their safety to have a woman in their presence or feel embarrassed or anything like that. So there's kind of a different vibe, just a different power dynamic. So I understand the need for women's-only fly fishing clubs. But it does give me kind of mixed feelings, because I feel like that's a bit of a double standard. But I'm not aware of any men's only fly fishing clubs. That doesn't mean they don't exist. But I don't know of any. And I guess the ones that I'm thinking of that are women's only are more of just like a a lot of them are like Facebook groups and things like that. They're kind of informal. They're not-- you're not paying dues. And you don't have this private property and all these collectibles. And that strikes me as a little bit different, because it feels like you're withholding something from a large group of the population that to partake in these things and learn about the history, I feel like there's a bit of a difference between if there were a men's only fly fishing Facebook group, that wouldn't bother me in the same way, I guess. But a long way to answer your question, no, I'm not familiar with any, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Marina
Interesting. Yeah, it would be... Yeah, and I totally agree with the points that you've said, and I'm not... But then I have had quite a few comments saying, "Why don't you just start up a women's only fishing club and I'm like but I don't want to do that I want to be I want to be at the flyer fishes club because that's such a cool venue it's got so many incredible things to go and see and read and it's so it's so hard it's so hard but yeah I mean I know a lot of women's clubs as well and a lot of women's Facebook groups and I agree with you at the point that you know they feel comfortable and they don't want to embarrass themselves. But I think that, yeah, I mean, there are a few, I think there are a few other men-only fly fishing clubs, but just the London one, it just seems like it's such a shame because other men-only London clubs are accepting their first women members. And it would be a shame, I think, for the Fly Fishers Club not to open it up because it's not like it's a sort of club where they go fishing all the time. It's a club with a venue with loads of memorabilia and you can have your lunch and dinner there. So it's a social club. But I kind of see also that people, the members that are there right now, some of them are saying, you know, it's a traditional gentleman's club. And we don't want to change that. We want to stay as a gentleman's club. So it's really, you know, there's just no, there's no right and wrong, I think. Um, but we'll see.
Katie
Yeah. And I think, I think the idea of a gentleman's club, not that we don't have some of that here, it strikes me as more of a UK thing than a US thing to have those, um, and we do have them, but not in the same, the same way. I also feel like a happy medium for something like this would be to have everybody be a member of the club, but then they have specific trips. This is a men's only trip. Guys want to be around guys and chat about whatever they want to chat about, and then you could have women's only trips. But like you said, because you brought up the fact that they have a place that they go and memorabilia that other people don't have access to, that strikes me as something that would be best for all to be able to enjoy. And then if you want to have a next Wednesday, all the guys are going out, that doesn't seem nearly is gatekeepy to me. That feels different.
Marina
Yeah, exactly. I said to a friend who's a member, I said to him, "If you, for example, opened it up to women members, then you have specific, you alternate nights. Let's say Monday, Wednesday, Friday, it's men only. Or you have mixed nights. Monday, Tuesday is mixed, anyone can go. Then you have Wednesday, which is women's only, the next night which is men's. Then the men can decide if they're going to go to the men's only nights or lunches. The ones that want female interaction, they can go to the other days. I think that's a sort of happy medium compromise, isn't it?
Katie
Yeah. I was actually just talking to another woman yesterday on a recording about this because I kind of agree with you. want a women's only thing. That's just not really my scene. I have a lot of male friends and I like having them in my life. So I'm not drawn to women's only groups. I'm drawn to general groups. And I don't fault anyone who is interested in a women's only space. But I'm with you that I would just want it to be mixed. Let everybody come. Let's all trade ideas and meet people that have similar interests. And I just feel like it gives a more well-rounded perspective. So I'm with you on that.
Marina
Yeah, yeah. I'll keep you posted.
Katie
Yeah, I'm interested to hear, you know, how that progresses and how it's received because, as I said, it's kind of a different culture over there, I think. But moving back to your background, I'd like to hear how you got from, you know, this girl at eight years old swinging a double-handed rod, which to me sounds difficult. I feel like that rod's going to be a lot for an eight-year-old to wield. But how did you get from there to where you are now? I know you've got the school now and we can kind of talk through, you know, the events in your book that you've, that have gotten you here because I know you've gone through a lot of you are today?
Marina
So I had, so I fished a lot when I was younger with my parents and then I probably through my teenage years fished once a year with my mum and but I was actually more interested in seeing friends. I remember she told me the other day that I went fishing with her and I sort of at the end of the day I was like that was really fun I feel like I finally you know I'm feeling a little bit more confident with my casting. Can you like drop me off at the train station now so I can go and see my friends? Like I was very, I was much more interested in seeing friends. And it's so funny like when you're that young you don't really see what's, I mean back then seeing your friends was more important but actually when you grow up you're like damn I wish I could have, I wish I would have taken up more opportunities, fishing opportunities. So then when I went to, I basically left school and went to New Zealand and I thought I was going to be there for like a month and I stayed there for two years. And I guess that New Zealand was probably the bridge to, it was like the in-between bit between my childhood and coming back into fishing. I wasn't fishing much in New Zealand. We would spin and I don't even think I fly fish there at all. And yeah, so it was mostly just conventional tackle stuff and a little bit of trout. I really wanted to go big game fishing there. Like a friend of a friend, they used to go out a lot and catch these awesome fish, sea fishing. And I kept saying, "Can we go? Can we go?" But we never did. So it was definitely, I think, like the spark had already initiated in New Zealand. And then when I got back to London, I wasn't in a great place, like you have read in the book. And I was repeating my weekends over and over again, I was feeling pretty down in the dumps and I needed something to sort of take me away. And I think because I had that fishing background already, I think, I don't even know why, maybe I went fishing with my mum that kind of like set it off again. I can't remember exactly why, because it's pretty random, like, especially the fact that I was living in London. But perhaps like, you know, But most of the, you know, a big reason is because I could escape London, which I wanted to because I, it totally depressed me living there. I've never been the city person. I wish I was. I wish I had taken full advantage of the city, but I just didn't. And so once I had found, I remember calling around and asking people because I had got I bought a salmon and trout rod for my 21st birthday and I really wanted to go fishing near London. I had been salmon fishing with my mom with my new rod. I remember calling around my friends and friends of friends to see whether I could find a cool place to go fishing, which was really easy to get to, almost public transport easy. One of the guys who I'd never met before, he said, "You should try Zion Park because it's super close to where you live." And that's what happened. That was it. The first time I went, I was totally obsessed. And back then, I was kind of teaching myself a lot of stuff because usually when I was younger, I would have someone helping. And so from this point onwards, it was my rod, and it was my journey, and my fishery, and my exploration. And I think that I-- and it's awesome, really, because I see this in other people. I see when people have bought their first rod, and then they start going by themselves, and they get to know a local fishery and build up their confidence. And I see this is the usual progression. And it's such a beautiful thing that unfolds because you never really know where you're going off the next trip or the... But there's this constant adventure and the unknown, which is why most of us get so hooked.
Katie
Yeah, I feel like that is a really good point. The transition between... This is something that you've been introduced to by somebody else and you feel like you kind of rely on them for spots and for tips and you're not in control. Even if you're doing everything, it just feels like you're there because of somebody else. And to make that transition to, I'm in control here, I'm behind the wheel, and I can take this wherever I want to go, I think that's a really important time, either for a child who's grown up or an adult who's picked it up but has always relied on somebody to take them out. I feel like it's an identity transformation almost between, I go fly fishing and I am a fly fisherman. Those are kind of two different things. So it's cool to hear somebody else voice that.
Marina
That's really cool. I love it. You had a very similar thing where you grew up fishing?
Katie
I grew up fishing, yes, not fly fishing. I picked up fly fishing in 2012. I was 18 or 19 when that happened. I had an unusual introduction to it, but since then I've mostly stuck to fly fishing. I do still pick up conventional gear on occasion, but not too often. How did you get into the school? Because you started a school, which is another huge step in going from just like, "I do this" to "I'm running something and I'm teaching people and I have to have business skills and all that." How did that come about?
Marina
I had moved. It's a long story, but in short, basically when I was living in London and I was totally obsessed with fishing and every weekend I was going and that's all I wanted to do. It's all I wanted to talk about. I basically started this casting in the park in Green Park, which is next to my office. I started up with Orvis. They gave us kit to use and we would run the sessions. We would do them once a week, especially during the summer when it was nice weather. People would come and learn to fly fish or have a lesson. It was just on the grass, so it wasn't even on water. People would come up to us and be like, "What's happening here? There's no water or fish anywhere near here." And then I think that got me into the teaching side of things. I remember Shaker who's from America, he was one of my first mentors. So he was FFI, Fly Fishers International, and he told me that if I wanted to do the FFI exams, I should start preparing and training for it. And when I was ready to leave London, the winter after I left, I decided that I would start practicing like full on and book my test for the sort of early spring, you know, after a few months of practicing. And so that was it. Like I moved my whole life from London to the north of England. And in my first year, I don't know how I actually survived because I wasn't making that much money and I was traveling around giving lessons and guiding people more than I, you know, I didn't charge enough basically and I wasn't charging any, I don't think I was charging travel expenses at one point and I would like drive to people and my mom was like, "You're crazy. You need to stop this. You need to start charging for your time and expenses." And so then the year after I thought that I needed to find a base because I couldn't keep running around like this. So that's really where the school came in. And I kind of fell upon Swinton and it was right place, right time because I was kind of looking for something a little bit smaller and maybe not a hotel. But it worked out well and it's a fantastic place to be, especially for beginners as well.
Katie
I want to hear more about the FFI exam because that was something you kind of talked about in your book. And I have kind of no concept of how difficult it is, but based on the amount that you talked about practicing, I assume it's very difficult. So I just want to hear about that and what it took, what kinds of things are they looking for and what is it like going through the exam?
Marina
The exam is split, not 50/50. There's more casting tasks than teaching, but the teaching casts are at the end. You have a few, maybe half a dozen teaching tasks at the end where you have to basically use your examiners as beginners and or at least one of them and just talk about how you would teach someone the roll cast or the double haul or the pick up and lay down or the overhead cast. So the casting tasks are, you know, you sort of pick up and lay down your tell us and show us about how you get a tailing loop. You have reach cast, mend cast, reach cast or wiggle cast. You have to do accuracy and land it around your target within a dustbin lid to the target. Yeah, so there's, there's just loads. And the thing is, as well, is you, you can only, I can't remember because they took it so long ago, but you, I think you can only make two mistakes. And that's including your loop size. So like, if you had, if you were casting, let's say an overhead and your loop size was outside the maximum size, then that would be one fail. So you have to be on your best game and that's why you have to practice so much. mentor Chris who lived in the north as well he said that you have to be 120% on your exam day because if you're not and it's windy or it's you know you're feeling the nerves then you will you know go down to 80% or like 90 whatever it is and then you have you also have a theory exam which is quite long, it's not too bad but it's, yeah, you have to kind of know your stuff. It's not like, I don't know, you can take some sort of, you could probably go and get a certification in a couple of days, right, if you want to, in many industries, but this one you will fail if you if you're not like you know the best that you you are I don't know the best of the best so and anyone can do it as well like it's not it's not something that is elite or but if you put the time and practice in you you can do it like anyone can do it and I guess you you need to know why you're doing it and and whether it's worth your time, because it does take time and it is hard. But if you're gonna use it and if you're gonna be a guide or an instructor, if you get it, you're gonna be the best guide or instructor because you're going to, especially with beginners, like I'm not saying that it's gonna make you into the best guide ever, but you will learn, like I learned so much in a short period of time practicing for the exam. my casting improved from like 60% to 100%. Like it was really, really an obvious, obvious progress. And I learned so much and I was then able to offer my clients a better service because I could have just carried on without it. But actually doing it made me a better caster, a better teacher, definitely a better teacher because you learn all about like five essentials, the dynamics of a cast and why and faults and fixes as well, which is super important when you're teaching someone.
Katie
I think that's a really good point. It doesn't take a perfect cast to catch a fish, but a lot of people who come on a guided trip want to learn how to do it properly. They're not just there to catch a fish. You can be an amazing angler and a terrible teacher if you don't know how to express what it is you're doing, especially for someone who's been doing it for so long. It's muscle memory. it without thinking. And to be able to explain that to somebody who's never touched it before in a way that they can, you know, grasp it and progress. I think that is a bigger skill than being able to actually catch a fish because I've caught some, you know, no offense to them but dumb fish that don't, they don't care how good my cast is. You know, they just see the fly land on the water in a, in a clump and they're like, "I'm in." You know, so. I am curious, what was harder, the portion that was demonstrating your own casts or the portion that was demonstrating your teaching ability?
Marina
I would say the hardest one was definitely the casting. Okay. Because it goes on for, I think mine would have gone on for more than two hours, like two and a half hours.
Katie
Oh, wow. That's a long time to be on.
Marina
That's a long time and it's a long time not to make more than two mistakes. Right? Could you imagine if you fished? Could you imagine if someone said, okay, today you're going to fish and your loop sizes must be like this and your, um, your casting must be perfect. And you're going to do this, this, and this cast. And if you make two mistakes, then you're never going to catch a fish again. Like this never happens. And also like when you go fishing, you just get the fly out there, right? It doesn't matter whether it looks pretty or not substance and style. You just get it out there to the fish. Um, whereas these casting exams are pretty rigorous with that. So, and you know, good on them. They want to make good casters. And not everyone passes, you know, I was, I think in a group of four or five, maybe five people and two of us passed and three, yeah, it was like, actually maybe six people. It was a lot. So, it's hard.
Katie
Do they tell you when you've made a mistake or do you just go through the whole thing and then wait at the end for your grade to find out if you passed or not?
Marina
So I had three examiners and they basically have a clipboard and they're writing notes and if you, if you're, yeah, I know it's awful and then they come together after like every, every task or every other task and they like start talking over their clipboards. So it's horrible. Like the worst, I think it was the worst and best thing that I've ever done. Um, and then if you've, if you have made so many mistakes that you've failed already, then they'll just cut, cut it short most of the time and say like, I'm sorry, you haven't passed this time, but, um, you know, keep practicing. So, um, yeah. And then at the end, they'll tell you, you know, you passed, um, this is what. You did so well and, uh, yeah, well done. So something like this, but already when I was told that I was, I had passed, I was crying and they didn't really know what to do. They all kind of just... [laughter]
Katie
You might not know the answer to this, which is fine if you don't, but I'm just picturing when they're looking at your loop size, you know, they obviously can't pull out a ruler in the middle of your cast and check, so I assume it's kind of like a relative, you know? Yeah. Do you know how they are doing that? Like, they're just looking, they're just eyeballing it, I assume, they have to. So, do you know how that works?
Marina
Yeah, it's, uh, they watch, so basically they're watching from different angles, So they're watching your tracking, they're watching your loop size. Some casts you have to demonstrate wide loops into narrow loops and fast loops. And, you know, sort of the trajectory of your casting arc is above your head and then you need to do this more sideways trajectory. So people, they're watching from behind your tracking, they're watching from the side. I think I'm off the top of my head because again, I haven't looked at that CI exam for a while, but I think the loop size need to be within four feet. So it's not too hard, but every single time you need to do it right. So there's no room for mistakes.
Katie
Maybe too far. Yeah. I've never fished for two hours without making two mistakes. Probably more like 50 mistakes in two hours.
Marina
Yeah. Yeah, that's more realistic.
Katie
I did want to transition a little bit to just hearing about fishing in your part of the world. I think you're the first person from the UK I've had on the show. And partly I want to hear about the fishing itself, you know, the species, the techniques, the rivers. I also want to hear about the regulations and things like getting a beat and things like that is not something that exists here. And it's something that's completely foreign to me. I'd love to hear what is fishing like in your part of the world? We can take it wherever seems natural, but I'll let you take it away and we can go from there.
Marina
Yeah, so we are a small island, as you can see on the map, but you can fish in the sea and you can actually fish without a license in the sea, so you don't need to pay for one online. Then you have the rivers and lakes and you need a license for those and most of them are private, so you have to buy a fishery ticket on top to fish most of our waterways or join a club or pay for a ticket online or in a post office, depending on where you are. You can fish from a boat in various places, you can fish on the bank, you can fish in the water wading. We have Atlantic salmon, which is one of probably the most famous species that we have swimming our waters. It's getting harder and harder to catch them because they are facing a lot of trouble in freshwater and saltwater. We have a lot of brown trout fishing all across the country, really. we have a huge community of still water anglers. So a still water is a lake or reservoir. So people go and mostly fish from the bank, I would say, but quite a few fisheries allow boats as well. And so you can fish for trout, people are fishing for predators as well, pike, zander, perch. And then there's a huge, huge demographic of course and carp anglers. And actually I would say that they probably make up most of our anglers, I want to say in the UK. It's like a huge community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Katie
I would not have guessed that.
Marina
It's really amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Did you know that carp fishing has, I was told the other day, is one of the main reasons for divorce in the UK.
Katie
No, that's a fun fact though. I've, I had no idea that that would be like a, such a big thing. I mean, it's coming into favor here, but maybe it's just my preconceived notions about people in the UK, but I feel like they like their salmon and their trout. There's kind of a fancy air about fishing, and carp is not what comes to mind for me for that.
Marina
No, carp fishing is huge. Yeah, it's very, very popular. And it's quite a – I mean, it's a good way to get your kids into fishing. I like the idea of course fishing and carp fishing. I don't get to do it that much, but when I do get the chance, normally it's carp on the fly, but I have done a little bit of carp fishing before. I think it's really, really fun. The carp anglers are so obsessed that they even make their own boilies, which is like a ball that's made out of different flavors. Basically, the carp come along and they take the ball and it's got a hook on. They make their own boilies. It's an art in itself, really.
Katie
Do people eat them?
Marina
Not in this country, no.
Katie
But they do in Europe.
Marina
They eat them for Christmas. You have to poach them in your bath.
Katie
Yeah, I know that carp were originally thought of as a food source and now very much not so, but I know that at one time they were, so I wasn't sure if that was still big in the culture there.
Marina
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to eat carp when it's such a sustainable fish. Why would you want to eat anything else because everything else is suffering? in suffering because we've got a lot of commercial trawlers, we've got so many predators now that the migratory fish are struggling to even get back to their river or even out. We've got salmon farms that are ruining coastlines and wild fish populations. And yet we have this coarse fish that is, you know, it could feed the 5,000. They're everywhere. It's sustainable. They're farmed. They're meaty. Why wouldn't we be eating them? Why are we still killing other things? I don't get it. But maybe we should start a campaign.
Katie
Have you eaten one before?
Marina
I've never. Never.
Katie
I'm curious how they taste. I haven't done much carp fishing, but because it was a food at one point, I assume it must be not too bad. And there's a lot of things I've tried that I was told were not good, and then they tasted fine. that carp, as long as you treat it well, might be the same way.
Marina
Yeah, I think so. I think so. I'm going to make it my mission when I go to Europe to try, because you see them all the time in the freezer food section when you go to Europe. But yeah, I think it's an interesting point because I've also tried perch, and this is delicious. This is actually one of my favorite fish I've ever eaten.
Katie
Yeah, I'm not sure if your perch are different than ours, but I think of perch as being a good eating fish here. We have yellow perch. I'm not sure what kinds of... I think we have white perch too.
Marina
Similar, I think, yeah. Same family, right? Yeah?
Katie
I would assume so.
Marina
Yeah.
Katie
Tell me more about the salmon fishery. What kinds of techniques do you use? What kinds of tackle, flies? Is two-handed fishing a big thing for them?
Marina
Yeah, so this is the traditional way that you would fish for Atlantic salmon with a double-handed rod but you can also fish with a switch rod and single-handed rods just like you can spay cast with a double-handed and a single-handed rod. So we are mainly fishing with between like 12 to 2 feet rods and in the range of like 7-8 weights to all the way through to like our 14 plus feet rods which can be sort of 9-10 weights. And we are fishing a range of different lines, so they can be density lines, floating, floating with tips, so yeah, just the standard. I mean, you know, you play around with things and you're fishing at different depths, So you're fishing with dressed flies, so the materials are tied onto the hook. So we call those dressed flies. And then we have tube flies, which can be tied on different weighted tubes to get down. Maybe you have micro tubes as well that are quite light, but you tend to sort of play around with the depths with the fly as well on tube flies. And yeah, it's mainly we're swinging flies, a bit like you're steelhead fishing. And then you've also got Atlantic salmon, haven't you, in Canada? So, I mean, not you, but Canada has. And you're closer to Canada than you are here. And so we are swinging flies, although Canada, they fish a lot of bombers. So that's that big fly that you chuck upstream and you're basically dry fly fishing for salmon. But we're mostly swinging flies and this is, for me, my favorite thing to do.
Katie
Why is that? What about swinging really draws you in?
Marina
I think it's just the casting is so satisfying. It's so beautiful to do and to watch. I love salmon so much. I really love guiding. If you guide a salmon or you catch a salmon, for me, this is the most exciting event. I just love everything about it. Like swinging flies is kind of relaxes me as well. It's like the beauty of the cast, but then you're swinging and you're kind of relaxing whilst that fly comes around. So you're not, you don't really have to worry about your line so much because a lot of the time when you're fishing with a single handed rod, let's say, say you're fishing dry fly upstream. It's, there's like constant, um, like movement line management the whole time, whereas swinging is a lot more relaxing and you kind of go into this lull.
Katie
Yeah, I don't do a lot of swinging, but I have heard one thing people really like is the ability to look around. You can be doing other things. You'll feel it if a fish takes. You don't have to be doing anything with your hands for the most part. It gives you a chance to be present in a different way. There's the kind of presence that is involved with fishing a dry fly because you're very present with what you're doing, but it often takes away from the ability to enjoy your surroundings, talk to somebody, look around at the natural beauty, and swinging, it sounds like that's what really draws people in. You mentioned steelhead. I know people who swing for steelhead, they will often go a really long time between fish and they stick with it because of the love of swinging. For salmon fishing over there, do you often go a long time without a fish or is it a lot more action-packed than the steelhead swinging that we have here?
Marina
Oh yeah, it's just like steelhead fishing.
Katie
Okay.
Marina
Yeah, yeah. This is, I mean, you're lucky if you get a window where the water's perfect and you've got lots of fresh fish in the system and you can have really good days. But other than, you know, you are working, you're grinding hard, you're fishing, you're casting a lot, you're trying different fisheries and that's what I think makes it so special when you finally catch one because it's so hard. I wish it wasn't though. It wasn't long ago when people were catching so many salmon that they were killing them all and taking them home. That doesn't really happen anymore at all.
Katie
Well, Marina, just to wrap up, where can people find you if they'd like to reach out to you or come on a guided trip with you? Feel free to plug your book. I know we've been talking about your book, but we haven't given it a formal introduction. Feel free to share anything you'd like about your book, your guide service, anything.
Marina
Okay. Probably my... I do most of my stuff on Instagram and Facebook, so it's just Marina Gibson Fishing. And then my book is called "Cast, Catch and Release" and the US edition launches on the 4th of June, so coming up. And the UK version was published on the 4th of April, so that's already out. And then if you want to check out the charity, cancer charity that I run, that's CancerandPiscesTrust.org. We basically offer free fishing centers to people affected by cancer. And the Northern Fishing School, if you want to come and fish the test or you want to come and learn to fish, Northern Fishing School, or just get in touch with me directly, but yeah, it would be, I would love one day to come on a US road trip. So I think that will happen in the next few years for sure. I would love to come to Colorado as well. I've been watching a lot of Yellowstone. Oh, yeah. Oh, my god, it took over my life for a good few months. I was watching I watched 1883, 1923, Yellowstone, all series, and then it's all finished. And now I'm really sad. And I don't really know what to do with myself. I'm just waiting because apparently there's a new one coming out in November. So I'm waiting.
Katie
Oh, I've been wondering when the next season is going to come out. I haven't actually watched any of the prequels yet, but we are Yellowstone fans. So I'll have to check that out when it comes out.
Marina
You seriously need to watch 1883 and 1923, because actually I think that they are 1923 is my favorite. Yeah. I'm excited for you. OK.
Katie
Yeah, it's on our list, but we haven't gotten around to it. But with a plug like that, we'll have to check it out. I'm curious to hear when you come over here eventually, how it compares to what you've conjured up in your mind based on the American media like that.
Marina
You know what, yeah, I'm really excited to, I think from what I've seen online and you know in books that it's you have it all, you know, the US really have it all. You have saltwater, you have mountains, you have trout, you have saltwater species, you know, your tarpon, you have bass, which are so cool, such cool fish. So like you have everything. You are lucky. Because you don't have to go anywhere else. You just need to travel America and you can take everything off.
Katie
That is true. But likewise, I'm interested in coming and checking out your part of the world, mostly because of the history there. We have our own history. New England has a rich history in particular. But hearing about all these things, it's so different from the culture here that it's just something different to experience. I'm so used to how Colorado functions and how the rest of the U.S. functions, but having that rich history, I would love to just come experience that and learn about the origins of a lot of this stuff. So we'll have to swap places and check in on what we do.
Marina
I was going to say, you know where I live now, so just let me know when you're coming over.
Katie
Perfect. Well, Marina, I will let you get going. I know you're operating on very little sleep after a lot of work, so I appreciate you doing this. Yeah, let me know if you're ever over in this neck of the woods and I'm excited to hear about your experiences.
Marina
Awesome. Thanks so much, Katie.
Katie
All right, that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. You'll also find the contact link there if you want to reach out to me. And you can also find me on Instagram @fishuntamed. If you want to support the show, you can give it a follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app and if you'd like to leave a review it would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise thank you all again for listening I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care everybody.
Note:
These transcripts were created using AI to help make the podcast more accessible to all listeners, including those who are deaf or hard of hearing, or anyone who prefers to read rather than listen.
While I’ve reviewed each transcript to correct obvious errors, they may not be 100% accurate. In particular, moments with overlapping speech or unclear audio may not be transcribed word-for-word. However, every effort has been made to ensure that the core content and meaning are accurately represented.
Thank you for your understanding, and I hope these transcripts help you enjoy the podcast in the way that works best for you.