Ep 97: Backcountry Fishing, Camping, Hide Tanning, and More: Guest Appearance on Buffalo Roamer Outdoors
I recently got to be a guest on the Buffalo Roamer Outdoors Podcast and wanted to release the audio here on Fish Untamed as well. Will Collins, the host of Buffalo Roamer Outdoors, was also recently a guest on my show, covering backcountry canoeing and fishing. Over on his podcast, I got to talk about everything from fishing to hide tanning, and I had a great time chatting with him.
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed podcast. Your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 97, my guest appearance on the Buffalo Roamer Outdoors podcast on backcountry fishing, camping, high tanning, and much more.
Intro
For those who seek adventure, this is the Buffalo Roamer podcast. Sharing the people, places, and moments that make a life on the loose worth living.
Will
I'm your host Will Collins. I'm an adventurer, outdoorsman, and roamer of wild places. I've backpacked the Brooks Range, rafted the Grand Canyon, and have canoed from source to sea both the Mississippi and Yukon rivers. I live for adventure, travel, fresh air, and diving into the unknown. And now, I hope to share my passion with you on the Buffalo Roamer podcast. Katie, I'm happy to talk with you. Long time no see. We talked yesterday for your podcast, which is Fish Untamed. That was a fun conversation, so glad to flip the script here and be able to ask you some questions. So that was fun yesterday.
Katie
Yeah, I'm glad to be on the other side of the mic too. I feel like going from host to guest like I can just sit back and relax and see what comes instead of feeling like I need to control everything.
Will
Yeah absolutely like we were saying on yours or I was saying on yours I asked if you could go first because I was kind of in a rush beforehand usually if I'm you know like tonight when I'm interviewing you I'll sketch out some notes you know a couple thoughts kind of get in the frame of mind before talking to you nothing crazy but a few minutes and then but yeah when I was asking if you could go first I was like you go first because then I just show up turn on the microphone and shoot from the hip you know?
Katie
Yep, yep. But it's a different kind of stress as the guest because I'm like, I don't know where we're going to go. You know, when you're the host, you kind of have a feeling for, you know, where are you going to take it? And I'm like, I have no idea what's going to happen. Yeah. I'm excited.
Will
Totally. Me too. Me too. Well, let's talk fishing. That's what I'm thinking we'll do is talk fishing. You run the podcast Fish Untamed. So tell me, I guess, how you got into, we'll start with the podcast world, how you got into doing Fish Untamed.
Katie
Yeah, it's kind of a long roundabout story, but I've been fishing since I was a kid. Had a spin rod growing up and did a lot of bass and pike fishing. And through a strange series of events, I ended up out here in Colorado. I was born in Pennsylvania, so I ended up in Colorado my freshman year of college to guide fly fishing. And I had never fly fished before. So I came out to work in the fly shop and learned the ropes out here, kind of tag along on trips. and eventually worked my way up to being able to take trips up by myself and stuff like that. But once I graduated college, I moved out here permanently and needed a job for the rest of the year because that was just a summer gig. So I went from fishing being a huge part of my life and what I was spending every day over the summer doing to entering the "real world," working a nine to five, not getting as much time out on the water. And so I wanted a way to kind of scratch my itch and feel like I was still connected to fishing even when I couldn't get out as much. So I started Fish Untamed as a blog where I'd just like write articles about all kinds of stuff, stories and tips and things that I'd experienced. And eventually that just became a little bit tedious. I'm not huge into writing. I kind of wanted to be, and then it didn't, it just, it wasn't exciting to me. I felt like it was a burden. But meanwhile, I'd go to work and I'd listen to podcasts for like eight hours a day while I worked. So I was deep into the podcast. I feel like I listened to all the podcasts out there about fishing. And I was like, "You know what? This seems like something I could stick with a little bit more." And so for a while I did the blog and started the podcast. Eventually I was having so much fun doing the podcast and the blog. So I just kind of tossed that aside and stuck with the podcast. And that's where we are today. Now I actually do have a That I intend to continue that for a while.
Will
That's great. Yeah, it's cool It's cool. The people you meet and the connections that you meet from doing the podcast, you know, this is episode I don't know somewhere in the 60s. This will be and I see you have a bunch too. What are you on 80 or something?
Katie
I think you were 93. If I remember correctly.
Will
Perfect. There you go. So yeah, it's fun being able to make those connections. I'm sure you've You've made some connections and I'm sure you've met people in person that you only talk to from the podcast. I'd have to assume right?
Katie
Yeah, I have and actually I've talked about that with a couple people, you know People ask, you know, do you make money on the podcast and I I make enough like break-even basically Which is which is fine by me, but I've made connections that I view is, you know More valuable than you know, putting 20 bucks in my pocket, which is you know for a niche podcast It's not it's not gonna you're not gonna make it big you're not going to be the next like this American life, you know, talking about a niche subject within a niche subject. But yeah, I've actually last January, I ended up going to Minnesota to go dark house spearing for the first time with Mark Norquist, who I met through the podcast. So yeah, I've like traveled across the country to meet up with people that I've talked to just started from an email and saying, hey, you don't know me, but you know, I'd like to talk to you. And, you know, I'm sure more of those are going to happen in the future too. But it is really nice to make those connections and people you can reach out to and say, "Hey." You feel like you're friends even if you haven't met.
Will
Totally. Absolutely. And they get to know you because they've listened to you so much. I'm sure they know you probably more than you know them. But the Dark Horse, or Dark House Spearing sounds awesome. What was that trip? Give me a little rundown of that. That sounds wild.
Katie
Sure. I don't know how familiar you are with it at all, but I'll just start from square one, if anyone is completely unfamiliar. I'm by no means an expert, so don't come to me for expert advice on it. Basically, it's a niche culture, it seems, up in the North Midwest, Wisconsin, I think Michigan, and Minnesota. I went to Minnesota. Basically, you cut a big hole in the ice. So think ice fishing, but instead of like a small round hole, it's kind of like a two foot by three foot chunk of ice that you saw out. And then you put a shelter over top of that and the shelter is dark, like it doesn't let light in. So when you put that shelter over the hole and sit inside, the sun goes down through the ice around you and lights up the water underneath. So you're looking down into this two foot by three foot hole and it's lit up like a and things, and then you'll see fish swim past. And you dangle a little fish decoy, like a wooden fish decoy down the hole, and you kind of twitch it. It's on a little stick with a string, and you twitch it and it draws fish in. Like pike will come in in like a predatory way. And then the other species come in out of curiosity. And you've got what looks like a trident, like a pitchfork, a spear, and you throw it down at the fish as they swim below you and you pull them up on the spear. And so it's kind of like a ice fishing, spear fishing combination. And I'm so upset that this doesn't exist in my area. Like, I don't think it's legal to have a hole that big in the ice in Colorado because I looked into it when I got back and you're not allowed to. But I really wish that this this culture would spread because it was like one of the most fun experiences I've ever had.
Will
That's awesome. Yeah, I've seen I don't know much about it, but I've seen a little bit just on social media and stuff. And yeah, it looks awesome, looks wild. I have to imagine that's a different type of fishing than you normally do, huh? A little out of the ordinary.
Katie
Yeah, and we talked about this yesterday on my show. My show's very much fly fishing focused, and I'm very much fly fishing focused, just because being in Colorado with a lot of small trout streams, it just lends itself to fly fishing. That is the proper technique to do a lot of what I'm doing out here. I feel like I would be stretching it if I tried to use other techniques. And so I tend to do a lot of fly fishing. I am by no means a purist. Like I said, I grew up with a spin rod. And when we go home, I still pick up a spin rod fairly often for bass and stuff. So I just like fish and fishing. I'm just fascinated by both those things and by the different subcultures around the country. I love seeing how different little communities have the ways they found to get fish out of the water. There's such a variety of ways that people do it that I'm just always interested in seeing how these different techniques have popped up and things that you wouldn't even know exist. Like I had no idea this was a thing until I started talking to Mark and he invited me up to do it. And it's such a big part of the culture there. Everybody's talking about, everybody's excited for the opening of the season. People carve the little decoys, it's like a whole art form. And I just love kind of immersing myself in those little subcultures that you'd never know about but are very rich and have a lot of history behind them.
Will
Totally, yeah, it's so cool. I completely agree. And as I've grown as an angler, I have grown in the different modes and methods too. And when I first started fly fishing and got deep into the fly fishing, I was probably a little stubby nose about dry flies or even just fly fishing specifically, like poo-pooing spin anglers. And then I moved to South Dakota after being in Colorado for five years, moved to South Dakota where, yeah, they don't have a fly rod within, you know, 300 miles. And walleye fishing and pike fishing and just absolutely loved it. And then there's just so many ways to fish. And like you said, too, all of the culture and nuances about those different avenues of fishing, different ways of fishing are so awesome and so in-depth, too. Kind of on the same note, I was on a fishing trip in Brazil about a year ago, a little over a year ago in November. And I was sitting around and it was a fly fishing trip. We were fly fishing for peacock bass was the main target, but we were catching wolf fish, catfish, piranha, all kinds of stuff. And it was myself and I think there was seven other guys in camp and they were all like 65 plus. The head, the main guy, I want to say he was, I want to say he was 82, but I could be mistaken. But regardless, great crew of guys, but they were all lifelong fly fishermen. And there was another guy, our party was like six, it was me and these older gentlemen, and there's two other individuals who were just traveling on their own, kind of like I was. And they were spin fishing, all six of us were just fly fishing. And I sat down at the table and we were like talking, and I found out that one of the guys was a big bass fisherman. So we were talking about different bass strategies and, you know, talking about the Texas rig, Alabama first Alabama rig versus the you know the wacky rig or the Ned rig or drop shotting or like all these little niche topics within spin fishing and the fly anglers were like what in the world are you guys talking about they're like you guys are talking like a whole different language like I had no idea that spin fishing could be that in depth and I was like yeah of course and then meanwhile talking to the fly guy the spin guys have no idea cuz I'm like yeah like throw a woolly bugger or you know, articulated streamer or you know, whatever it is. So it's cool to be able to go between the interdisciplines, I think.
Katie
Yeah, it's something I'm, I'm still like mostly a fly fisherman, but I have actually in the past year or so bought both a bait casting rod and a spin rod just because there's like, there's some species out here that I'd like to fish for more that just don't lend themselves to fly fishing. I mean, it'd be really cool, but you know, if you I have a bit of a goal this year to do some catfishing and catch one because I've never caught a catfish.
Will
Nice.
Katie
So I'm kind of thinking of this as more of a learning opportunity. Like, "Hey, let's dive into this other kind of niche area within fishing." Like you said, all the different rigs and stuff. I went out with a buddy and we didn't get anything, but he showed me the ropes. We set up a couple of different rods a couple of different ways. And I just really enjoyed soaking in that information because obviously even within whatever discipline you usually do. For me, fly fishing, I'm still learning stuff all the time. But for the most part, I would consider myself good enough at it that most things that I'm learning are more little tweaks, apart from the big categories. I don't like EuroNymph. But within the standard fly fishing that I do, most of the things I'm learning are small things. I'm not still figuring out how to cast and stuff like that. And so it's fun to go to something else where you're a complete beginner. 'Cause I haven't experienced that in a long time with fly fishing. And I like that place where you are, like everything's new to you, everything's exciting, everything's interesting, and you don't realize how deep some of these things go. I think I just like being a student and you have to kind of branch out if you wanna be in that new beginner learning stage again.
Will
Absolutely, I 100% agree. And I'm right there with you. Yeah, I enjoy that aspect of fishing. And it's fun to be able to, you know, sometimes you can pick up little things from spin fishing that you can bring back to fly fishing or the other way around, you know? Like I know the jig headed flies are really in popular now. Like those are basically came from spin fishing, you know? So how -
Katie
Well, and there's a lot of crossover too between, you know, fly fishing is different because you're using different techniques and stuff but at the end of the day, the most important part to catching fish is understanding fish behavior and reading water and stuff like that. And that is universal. I mean, if you know those things, you're already ahead of the game. For somebody who's a complete beginner, who's never looked at water, touched a fish, touched a rod of any kind, the hard part is knowing what it is you're trying to do. What are the fish eating? How can I imitate that properly? And those things, once you know those things, it's not that hard to pick up a different kind of rod try to imitate whatever it is you're trying to do. And I think people forget that there's a lot of crossover like that and a lot of value from learning different techniques.
Will
Yeah, absolutely. The old saying, right? Like 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water.
Katie
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Will
Yeah, so how did you get, do you have like a story that you recall as a kid or whenever it was like that when you realized like, man, I'm hooked on fishing. This is awesome.
Katie
I don't have a single instance. I have two half-sisters, but they're much older than I am. They were already moved out by the time I came along. I grew up as an only child. We had a cottage on a river in Western Pennsylvania. I would just be dropped off and told to go entertain myself. That's where fishing came along because it was something I could do by myself. What I don't know is how I stuck with it because I remember back in the day, I would go out fishing and I would fish for a week or two between fish. I catch one fish and it was a highlight of my month.
Will
Totally.
Katie
And I'd come back and tell everyone about it. And then I'd go out and I'd do it again for the next month and not catch anything. And I don't know how I was still interested in that as a kid. Because I feel like with kids, you got to keep it action-packed or they lose interest. But yeah, but something about it just kind of drew me in and I would just stand out there with a rod casting over and over and over again to the same spot, hoping for a different result. So no, I don't like have a single moment. It just kind of happened and grew from there. And yeah, it's morphed over the years. But for the most part, the passion's been there since I was, I don't know, five or six and hasn't really gone anywhere.
Will
It's funny looking back on those times too. Like when you were set talking about that, obviously I still get skunked way more than I like, but, but, uh, you know, like those early days learning fly fishing for me is when I was in, uh, when I was in college, uh, like a freshman year in college, you know, just trying to figure it all out. Like I remember the first time my buddy showed me a, uh, just like a double nymph rig or like a dropper hopper rig or something like that. I was like, Whoa, like that's a whole new level, uh, to this, you know? Uh, and just learning those little intricacies along the way. And yeah, like you said, like having no success, but just enjoying being out there. And then you do have that little, you know, that tiny little fish that you hook and you're just like so pumped. It's fun going through that learning process.
Katie
Yeah, I remember, like, so I would stand out in like a big rock and cast for a small amount of bass. And I would, I'd want to, my dad would be on shore 'cause he wasn't a big fisherman. He would take me out occasionally, but for the most part, he was just like, go have fun. But I was so excited about all the fish I would bring them all back to him. Um, not probably not great fish handling, cause I would like walk them across this pretty big river just to bring them back and show them, um, they were bass. So hopefully they're okay. It wasn't like a fragile trout, but, um, yeah, I would, I would be so excited that I'd have to bring every single fish back to show them. And I don't know, some of those fish probably spent a long time out of the water getting carried back, but I mean, that's like the highlight of your life at that moment is, you know, what you've been working toward and it's, it was so rare that it was just like, everyone has to see this.
Will
It's so funny too. Isn't it? how some folks, it's just in their blood. It's in my blood, I know it for sure. If I see water, I'm like, okay, where are the fish at? If I'm crossing a bridge on a bike ride or something, I always stop and look down in the water. Fishing just runs in my blood, and it sounds like you as well I mean, especially for not having a parental figure or a sibling who you'd go out with. It was just innately, you wanted to do it.
Katie
Yeah, I've heard that from quite a few people. The two stories I hear a lot are, either I discovered this later in life and it felt like I should have been doing it my whole life. It calms me and takes my mind off things and I just couldn't get enough of it. And the other story is, I don't know, it's just kind of always been there and I can't picture my life without it. But I don't know where it came from. It was just there. And that was me for sure.
Will
Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. So how did you go? What was the leap of faith from going to the guide shop and trying to soak in all you could in the fly fishing world. So you were in Pennsylvania and you were in college in Pennsylvania and you spent your summers out west or how did that go?
Katie
Yeah, so my freshman year of college, the guide shop I worked for was a seasonal thing. It was not like a traditional fly shop. It's more catered toward family trips. So you're not paying paying like $500 for a drift boat and, you know, exclusive access or anything like that. It was, Hey, you know, me and the family want to come out and learn how to fly fish. Can we book an affordable trip with you? So it was kind of more geared toward introducing people to it. We obviously took out, you know, experienced folks as well, but it was much more family friendly than a typical fly shop would be. And it was only, it's only open from like May to September.
Will
Okay, cool.
Katie
And so a lot of the folks that work there are teachers because they'll do the summer job and then go back to teach during the rest of the year. And my sister already lived out here and she was a teacher and she worked with one of the guys who guided for them. And he was like, "Hey, we're looking for help for the summer. Do you know anyone who likes to fish?" And she's like, "Well, my sister likes to fish, but she doesn't fly fish." And he's like, "Well, give her my number and we can maybe make something work." So I just got a call one day being like, "Hey, do you want to come work in Rocky Mountain National Park guiding fly fishing?" And I was like, this seems suspicious.
Will
Too good to be true.
Katie
…but okay. So yeah, I came out here and showed up and I would tag along on trips and kind of just soak in what I could, learning to fish with the guests coming out. I was just there to watch. I would help tie knots and stuff like that. But technique-wise, I was like learning along with everybody else, but I was kind of there as a pack mule and stuff like that. And then I'd work the shop and help people book trips and things like that. And then I worked there for maybe three or four years. And so by the end of it, I was going on trips as a normal guide and also working the shop. I liked working the shop. I know some people use working at a fly shop to become a full-time guide. And I really liked the balance because I would get kind of burnt out by the end of the summer going to the same spots over and over again. So I liked being able to mix it up between the shop and taking folks out. But yeah, that's basically how I got there.
Will
Awesome. Yeah, Rocky Mountain National Park, how about that place, huh?
Katie
It was such an amazing, like, first dip into Colorado.
Will
Yeah, talk to me about Rocky Mountain National Park. I've done a few trips in there. I've caught in Greenback, Greenback, what is it? Greenback cutthroat? Is that the name of the species? Yep. That's, like, unique to that area, right?
Katie
So that the greenback cutthroat story is kind of a convoluted one. I don't know how deep you want to go into it. And I don't know all the details, but the 30,000 foot view is that they thought they had, so they were thought to be extinct a long time ago. And then they found a population and stocked them all over the place, all over Rocky mountain national park. And the brochures you'd get in the park or they, they loved to promote this, uh, you know, state fish in danger. Thought to be extinct. - Thought to be extinct. Yeah. And then it came out maybe 10 to 15 years ago, I'm not sure on the date, that actually all of those fish were not what they thought they were.
Will
Really?
Katie
And that they were, yeah, I don't know if they had maybe a little bit of greenback DNA in them, but they were not like the pure greenbacks that they thought they were. And I don't know what strain it mostly was, maybe Colorado river cutthroat. I'm not positive on that.
Will
Sure.
Katie
And so then I think there was another kind of panic of like, oh no, this wasn't them. are they still around? And they did find a pure strain in one of the creeks. So now they're doing kind of like a secondary stocking where they have now another list of locations that do have pure greenbacks that have been like genetically tested and confirmed to be the pure strain. But it's not all those ones that are across Rocky Mountain National Park. There's like, I don't know, maybe six or seven locations that they put them in. I could be wrong on that too. And I'm not sure if Rocky Mountain's still like really advertising. They're like, come here and catch the greenbacks. I don't really care if they do. I mean, people get excited about it and you couldn't tell the difference visually. They look the same. But I do wonder how many people I told, because back when I was guiding, we thought they were greenbacks too. And so I don't know how many people I told like, "Oh yeah, you caught this unique fish that only exists here and it's our state fish and blah, blah, blah." But I think that that's not the case.
Will
Breaking my, you know, busting my bubble. I'm going to have to take it off my species list now.
Katie
You have to just come and I can help you get some. They're not terribly hard to find.
Will
Yeah, awesome. So, but it's wild how, like, these streams that we're talking about in Rocky Mountain National Park, which if you've never been, it's just like the most pristine, amazing, spectacular, like, jagged peaks, really awesome park, elk everywhere. But these like the water is so small. It's like these creeks are pretty tiny. The fish are not very big, pretty tiny, but it's just wild that they have this specific or at least they thought they did, specific strain of fish that is found nowhere else other than in these tiny little creeks and stream beds. Have you done much backpacking and kind of backcountry fishing through Rocky Mountain National Park? I know that's kind of a passion of yours is the backcountry fly fishing.
Katie
Yeah, I used to do a lot more when I lived up in Estes. That was kind of like the only place I went. But now living a couple hours south of there, I don't actually get up to Rocky very often. Also the crowds have just gotten crazy. It's one of the most visited parks in the country. So there's like, you know, big lines, reservation systems, stuff like that. So I've kind of moved away from the park itself. It is an incredible place. I have no regrets spending as much time there as I did when I was up there. Now I've kind of moved into some of the more I don't want to say remote, because there's a lot of remote places in the park, but less visited areas, less high like lower traffic, I guess. But yeah, I do a ton of backpacking, just hiking, camping. And I usually try to incorporate fishing into that in some way.
Will
Love it. What is it that draws you to the backcountry fishing, as opposed to just going out for an afternoon or whatever?
Katie
I guess mostly I just like being away from people and I like beautiful scenery. I love fishing but I don't care that much about size or anything like that. I mean, I like catching big fish as much as the next person, but I'm definitely not a size-driven person. I'm not on a lifelong goal to catch a certain size of trout. I like spending time with my friends. I like being in beautiful environments. I like not seeing people all day. And so that lends itself to gathering a couple of people up, hiking 5 to 10 miles in, setting up camp, and then just hanging out by a lake or a stream for a couple of days. There's just something so peaceful about it, but also adventurous. I like working hard to get somewhere, but then also having this calmness come over you. Especially, we've talked about this on my show before, but when you're in the backcountry for two, three plus days, once you've been out there for a couple of days You haven't had cell phone service. You haven't dealt with emails coming in and stuff. Something changes where you just start to flow with the day. You wake up when the sun comes up. You go to bed when the sun goes down. You're only chores or priorities out there, just whatever you need to do at that moment. Hey, I need water. Hey, I need to get into my shelter because weather's coming. There's not a list of things you need to be doing. You're just existing out there and becoming part of the daily cycle. And I love being out there long enough to hit that point because it's just such a nice reset. And I actually think I don't know who did it, but there was somebody who was looking into this from a scientific perspective of what changes when you're immersed in nature for I think it was three days was the point where something starts to maybe shift in your brain. And I think there was even some recommendations about how many times you should do this throughout the year to reap actual benefits from it. Like go to your local park at least twice a week. be outside overnight at least a couple times a year and do like an extended at least three to four day trip, completely disconnected once a year. And I think they showed that there were actually significant health benefits from doing these things just by giving your brain like a reset from the day to day, just like noise that we all deal with.
Will
I totally believe it. A hundred percent. Anecdotally, I have felt it, I don't know, hundreds, probably close to hundreds of times, definitely hundreds of days over the collection of trips. And yeah, and with the folks that I've taken out on as a guide, guided trips with friends that I've taken out, it's wild how that works, isn't it? It's like the first day you're out there, you're still worrying about work and like what was going on in the back of your head and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, as soon as that, I think it is that third day, as soon as that third day rolls around, everything just kind of melts and like exactly like you said, you're just like in the motion of the woods, like waking up when the sun comes up, eating when you're hungry, sleeping when you're tired, like and I love when you finally get into the groove of that routine, you know, it's like where it just feels normal to be like, all right, where should we stop for lunch? like oh there's a flat rock there that make a good little you know perch spot or whatever it might be good spot to throw the backpack off or like there's a sandbar over there for the canoes like let's hop out and and it's just like second nature and when you unload the boats for me or like unloading the backpacks whatever it is like unloading the boats at the end of the day everybody knows you know what they're supposed to grab like the tent goes up first blah blah blah then we get firewood it's just that yeah that that flow and once you hit that routine, it's the best, isn't it?
Katie
Everything's so simple. You know exactly what needs to get done. Not that a lot of chores you do at home aren't simple, but there's always that nagging thing in the back of your mind, "What do I need to do? Who do I need to message? What email do I need to respond to?" And out there, it's very much like you just look around and you can see what needs to be done. You said, "We got to pitch this tent. We got to get firewood. I got to eat some food because I'm hungry. It's all very much bodily cues and things right in front of you that just need to get done. And it's just a very simple... I think this is why people are probably drawn to moving out into the middle of nowhere and getting a cabin and just living out there because it's like the rest of the world kind of ceases to exist. And it's just what is right in front of you and what you need to do. And it's very clear.
Will
Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? And the other funny part about that is that as soon as you you are back into the front country, back into the world. It's just like, you get that first text message, that first email, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And then it's just like right away, you're like back into it like it never happened. Like every time I'm out on a trip, especially a longer trip, it's like, at this point I've done it enough that I realize, you know, I'm not gonna feel like this forever. But still, it's like, it's so hard to fathom that this feeling that I'm not gonna feel like this, like in two days, you know, it's like, it's just, it's so strange. As soon as you're back in, it's just boom.
Katie
Well, and I swear, I always get some sort of like bombshell email while I'm gone. Like I never come back and get, you know, a couple of spam emails and some newsletters and things. It's always like, hey, we need this thing done earlier than expected or something, you know, it's just, it's something that is so jarring. Like I always get one of those while I'm gone. And yeah, like really kind of, yeah, I said, it's just jarring when you get back and you're just suddenly thrust back into it. And you really have to shift your mindset back into being a productive member of society. And there's something that was just on the tip of my tongue. Oh, yeah. I often go into a bit of a depression when I get back for a couple of days. I want to feel like I'm still reaping the benefits of going out. Because in some ways, I'm still on a bit of a high, thinking back on all the fun we had or whatever. But there's also a depression. Why can't I just do that forever? and here I am stuck back in my office or whatever. For a couple of days, I usually feel a little bit depressed and I find myself on Google reading about the area we were in or reading about fish or just something to try to keep myself in that mindset of something related to what I was doing before just to keep my brain slightly still engaged with that.
Will
I know exactly what you mean. Usually I'm trying to plan the next one.
Katie
Yeah, looking at maps or whatever it is.
Will
Yeah, exactly. Do you have any trips, fishing trips, or just travel trips or backcountry trips that come to your mind as being like, you know, one of the trips that was, I don't know if monumental is too big of a word for you, but one that kind of sticks with you?
Katie
Yeah, one I've talked about a decent bit, and I can't share too much because just by the nature of what the trip was. But my friend Ali and I, a couple of years ago, went up and fished for one of the only populations of golden trout in Colorado. And I think there's more now. They're putting them in different places. So they're not impossible to find anymore. But for a while, they were pretty rare. And we ended up scouring maps and reading blogs and looking at pictures and stuff, and found where one of these remote populations was. And we kind of just dove in. We didn't really know what we were getting into. And it ended up being a really, really grueling hike. I think it was maybe 11 or 12 miles in. And it was mostly off trail through deadfall and stuff. So it's just every step you take is just painful. But you have to keep moving because you're in the middle of deadfall. You're not near water or anything. You've just got to get to your destination. And we didn't even know if we were going to the right spot because this wasn't a place that was listed on CPW's website. This was like a, we hope that this is the place people have been talking about.
Will
We've heard through the grapevine.
Katie
Yeah. Yeah. And so we're like, you know, hopefully this is the right spot. Hopefully they're still there. Cause it's, you know, not a, not a big area. It's not like a massive lake full of them. Um, and you know, who knows what we're going to find when we get there. So we got there and we ended up finding them. Um, which was, it was just like, I remember the moment that we realized we had found them and we were going to catch some, which is such a, I can't even describe it, just like it's such a wonderful, like warm feeling of like, I'm up here, I'm like with one of my best friends. We did it. It was like a physical accomplishment because we were just like dead tired. We got to camp up there for a couple of days and didn't see anybody. It was just kind of like the pinnacle of like what I want in a trip. Because I like trips to kind of suck. You know, I enjoy like a nice relaxation day. Yeah, I like sitting in a hammock and enjoying the sunshine, but if it doesn't like hail on you or you don't fall and almost break a leg, like, I don't know, I need a little bit of that in a trip to really, really feel like it was worth it. So that's, I got a lot of that out of that trip.
Will
Yeah, that sounds awesome. I know exactly what you mean too on multiple fronts. A couple of things came to mind when you were telling the story. One, I've done two golden trout, both in Wyoming though, not in Colorado. just over the border and then just north and then one in the Wind River Range. But then also in the Wind River Range, we were hiking one time on a backpacking trip in the winds in Wyoming and there was four of us and we just picked like a lot of the stuff in the winds is off trail. There's like trails to get into the main areas but once you get into like the main basins It's just kind of free roaming. There's not many trails. And so we just like picked a spot on the map and we're like, this lake looks awesome. We've heard, uh, uh, you know, vague things about it. Not many people have talked about it. Probably good sign for us. Um, so we're like, let's give it a shot. And just like looking at the topo on the map, it's like, okay, it looks doable. So we go in and like maybe a third of the way in on the first day, uh, it starts dumping and then we get into this forest and like you were saying, just deadfall everywhere and just like the thickest deadfall and we have these like Overtly heavy packs on like packing like idiots. I think we were like maybe maybe 20, you know 22 or something 21 at the time and like Trying to like shimmy over these downed logs while it's pouring like the wet the logs are so wet and slippery Like, you know, I don't know how we didn't you know roll an ankle or twist an ankle and yeah that that is some tough hiking through that stuff.
Katie
It is so bad. I don't know how it is in other states, but most of the forests we've been in Colorado have just been like decimated by the beetles. And some of that stuff is like nearly impenetrable. Like there's areas where it's not too bad. I don't know many areas where it doesn't exist at all, but there's a couple like nice places where you really have to step over one or two trees at a time. But a lot of the places I've ended up, I'm like climbing on all fours over, you know, five trees that have all landed on top of each other. And yeah, when you've got, you know, a bunch of overnight gear on your back, once you start to fall, there's no stopping yourself. So you're just going to kind of go with it and have to tumble and hope that you don't hurt yourself too badly when you go down.
Will
Yeah, yeah, I know it all too well. The other thing that this conversation reminds me of is I still say to this day that like, of all the different styles of fishing that I've done, which is a lot. You know, I've done a lot of different species, ocean fishing, saltwater fishing, fly fishing, muskie, you know, all kinds of stuff. But I still think one of my favorite ways to fish is, yeah, hiking in or backpacking into a remote alpine lake, nobody around, there's just like a cirque of towers around you and just like walking around that lake when you get there and first scouting it out from like from the height and just seeing like a trout come out from the depths to you know snag some grasshopper beetle on the surface you're like oh yes like game on it's just such a great feeling I think that's one of my favorite ways to fish.
Katie
Yeah alpine lakes are definitely up there for me for the for the same reasons you described And especially the terrain, because streams are-- they can be beautiful. But lakes almost always are surrounded by big, jagged peaks. You don't find a lake in the middle of a field, generally, if it's an alpine lake. You've got mountains all around. And because they take some effort to get to, you're not going to see a lot of people. And if you do, they're generally cool people. I'll talk to them because, hey, you also trudged up here. We probably have something in common, versus seeing the crowds down off the roads. I will say that they're kind of hit or miss, though, in terms of difficulty. I feel like I either show up at an alpine lake and there's fish rising everywhere. You'll get a bite every cast without even trying. You put on any fly. And then other times, I'll go up and I feel like I throw everything in my box with every technique. And I can watch fish just swim right past my fly without even looking. And it's just so frustrating. You could be up there all day and not even move a fish. So it's kind of hit or miss. I feel like usually I can figure it out enough to get a couple of fish out of the water. But it's not the same as stream fishing, where I feel like as long as you can find the pockets they're in and present something in like no without too much drag, you'll probably get a couple fish. And I don't know what it is about those lakes that they're either really turned on or really turned off. And it can be really frustrating when they're turned off.
Will
I know exactly what you mean. It's the worst to I can picture in my head multiple times a couple of my buddies in particular. They've gotten better over the years. But you know, when you're when you're the fisherman right on the trip and then you hike up to a lake And like you say, there's fish everywhere and you're spending all this time doing it. And they're like, dude, there's a fish right there. Like, come on, cast over there. Like, like, hey, come over here. I just saw a fish. It's like, yeah, I saw him too. I'm trying to catch him. Okay. He's not he's not working right now, guys. Like, dude, I just saw a fish. Come on, why don't you catch it?
Katie
Yeah, it's hard because you can see him a lot of the time, like they'll just be cruising along and you know, if you can stand up on boulders and look down and you might you'd be able to see like a dozen fish and they might look like they're feeding them. be cruising around or something, but that doesn't mean they're going to eat what you have to offer.
Will
Totally. Yep. How about species? It sounds like trout is obviously at the top of the list for you. Is that your favorite species to chase or is there anything else on the list?
Katie
I feel like trout, various subspecies of trout or species of trout are top of my list only because it's what I've got access to and I love where they live. So it's not necessarily trout themselves, that I love. It's just I like being where trout live and it's what we've got a lot of in Colorado, so I end up fishing for them more than anything else. But like I said, growing up, I did a lot of smallie fishing, pike, walleye in some of the warm water rivers back east. And I don't know, I kind of like all species. I like fishing. I don't care that much about species, but when it comes to trout specifically, I do prefer native species. I like targeting cutthroats. I also like I'm not-- I don't have anything against other species of trout, but I feel like I'm not as much on the brown trout bandwagon as a lot of fly fishermen. I think a lot of people put them at the top of the list because they get so large and aggressive. And I totally get that. I'll never turn down a massive brown trout eating a streamer. But because I tend to focus more on the whole atmosphere when I go fishing, I prefer to just be out in the middle of nowhere, small stream, mountain, alpine lakes, things like that. I don't encounter a lot of like large predatory brown trout because I'm not fishing in their environments for the most part. And because I prioritize that atmosphere over like big fish, they just don't occupy as big a part of my life as I think a lot of fly fishermen, but nothing against them. It's just, it's not my jam compared to something like a native cutthroat. I'd rather chase those all day.
Will
I know what you mean. And yeah, it's funny as a fisherman, I'm always debating that. More as I've gotten older and more especially as I hang out with fishier and fishier people, I've gotten more away from this. But yeah, I always only used to want to go to the most pristine places and the most picturesque where nobody else is. And I still love to do that, obviously, any time that I can. But I have gotten more comfortable with like, I don't know, maybe fishing around people is the right word, but just being like, okay, there's a dam here. Like it's not very, it's like not the most picturesque thing, but this is where the fish are so let's go get them, you know? And there's such a fine line with that.
Katie
Don't get me wrong. I like fishing and I'm not so snobby that I can't have someone in my view when I fish. It's just like when I have control over the situation, I'm going to choose to go to these places a lot of the time. But I still fish plenty of like tailwaters with people, you know, lined up above me and below me. I still do a decent amount of that too. And like warm waters back east, it's a lot of like floating. I know we talked about that a lot, the canoeing when you were on my show. But I grew up with a kayak, so I was always like floating the rivers. And so you'd see like other people kayaking, canoeing, tubers, things like that. So I don't mean to make it sound like I am like too good to fish near people. It's just that when I have my choice, I usually try to kind of get away from the crowds. But at the end of the day, I'll take fish wherever I can find them.
Will
No, me too. But and I didn't mean to say you, but I used to be like that where I'd be like, even if it was a good area to fish, if there was someone there, I'd be like, or someone in the area, I'd be like, ah, like, I'm not here for that. But now I've gotten more into fishing where the fish are. And sometimes people are where the fish are, you know?
Katie
Yeah, for sure.
Will
But obviously, yeah I'm trying to get away as much as I can. How about do you have like is there a dream trip? The fly fishing world in particular is like loaded with all these fishing destinations and like saltwater trips and like all these wild different species that you see on social media a lot of them are kind of far off and fanatical maybe but curious if you if you had like a dream trip or anything that that piques your interest?
Katie
Yeah for me the number one would be Kamchatka, the Kamchatka peninsula in Russia. I'd love to go up there and chase like the native species they have plus like the big rainbows up there. I don't know if you can fish for steelhead actually up there. I know they have them but they would be protected. But yeah I mean I've just I've seen videos up there and it just looks it looks like big fish but in the setting I want which is exactly like what my dream is is to be able to get out in the middle of nowhere, but also catch trophy fish. And I'd like to do some saltwater. I've never gone saltwater fly fishing. And we're actually looking I'm getting married in June, so we're talking about doing a honeymoon trip where we can do a little bit of scuba diving and try out some saltwater fly fishing for, I don't know, maybe bonefish or something. Just something kind of easy. Maybe redfish, I'm not sure. So we'll see. That's on my list and seems a little bit more doable in the near future. come track as more of a lifetime goal.
Will
Totally. Yeah, that sounds great. And yeah, bonefish and redfish, both good species for trying out the saltwater. Does your fiance fish?
Katie
He does. Yeah, he's kind of gotten into it through me. But I kind of drag him along on a lot of my trips. And he's not as into it as I am, but he's happy to go.
Will
That's good.
Katie
He'll fish too. And he likes backpacking and hiking and stuff. So it's usually not hard to convince him to go fishing with me, but he doesn't really do much on his own.
Will
Sure, sure. Have you been to Alaska?
Katie
I haven't, it's on the list.
Will
You gotta get to Alaska. If you wanna do Kamchatka, you gotta get to Alaska, man. It is just like, it is Colorado on steroids. It's just so big, so much water, the fish are big, it's so wild, it's, yeah, you gotta add Alaska to the list for sure.
Katie
The problem with Alaska is I can't decide when I wanna go and what I wanna do there, Because I want to fish Alaska. I also think it'd be fun to hunt in Alaska. And I feel like any time of year I go there, I could ski in Alaska. There's so many things to do that I would like to do. That it's like I feel like I'd have to go for either multiple trips or just stay there for six months. Just to experience it all.
Will
Paralysis by analysis, right? Right. Yeah, it is wild, Alaska. I haven't been there in the winter yet. It's on my list for sure is to get there in the winter. But yeah, just the rawness and remoteness of it up there is amazing. I'd love to do a hunting trip up there too. What type of hunting are you into or are you into hunting?
Katie
Yeah, we do both archery and rifle and we hunt elk, deer, pronghorn and small game for the most part. We're actually hoping to go on our first waterfowl trip this year. So we'll see how that goes. But that's been kind of like a big barrier to entry because we don't really know where to start. So we've got a friend who's going to take us out. But yeah, mostly big game and a small game, not a lot of upland or anything, just because to do that in Colorado, I feel like it's beneficial to have some private land out east, like for pheasants and stuff. And we don't have that. So it's mostly like what we can do on public land in the mountains.
Will
That's awesome. And is that something that you've always been into as well, kind of tied in with the fishing, or is that something that grew once you came to Colorado or what's the hunting story?
Katie
I picked that up in high school back in Pennsylvania through actually my ex-boyfriend's dad. His son wasn't super into hunting, but I was really interested, so I would go out with his dad.
Will
That's awesome.
Katie
Just for whitetails. I did start hunting in Pennsylvania, but I do feel like moving up to Colorado, it was kind of like I had to restart because it's completely different. Growing up, it's like sit on a bucket at the base of a tree and wait. You're sitting in the snow and waiting for deer to walk past, and now it's a lot more active mountain hunting, walking around all day, glassing. And the tag system is so different. I had to learn all the licensing requirements out here versus going on the gas station and buying a hunting license where you can now hunt everything in Pennsylvania. So that was a rebirth moving out here. But yeah, I've been hunting out here now for, I don't know, maybe five or six years. And it's picked up in the past couple, like the first, the first couple of seasons were pretty dry. I didn't get much. Um, but now we've kind of got in the groove a little bit and they're having more success. Um, although we just got back from a trip this past weekend, it was a pretty hellish. We went out for snowshoe hares and we went, we went the same time last year and there wasn't much snow on the ground, but they were white. So we had a heyday, they were everywhere. And this year we didn't think to check the snow depth. So we got up there and there was a, like a foot of snow on the ground and we like, "Well, rats, you know, they're white and so is everything else." So we ended up hunting on skis, which is something we've been wanting to try out.
Will
That sounds awesome.
Katie
But didn't end up having any success. Yeah, we just kind of skied around and looked for stuff, but didn't find anything.
Will
What is that called? Diathlon? Dicathlon?
Katie
Oh, biathlon?
Will
Biathlon, the Olympic sport where they shoot the guns.
Katie
Yeah. Unfortunately, we didn't get a chance to shoot our guns, so we carried them around, for sure.
Will
That's cool. into the small game. What other small game do you like chasing?
Katie
Mostly, so we do squirrel, although I like squirrel more back east because they were bigger, like gray squirrels and stuff. Out here, we've got fox squirrels down in the river bottoms in the plains, but the mountains are mostly pine squirrels, which are just kind of small. We'll take them if we see them, but we don't tend to drive out there just to hunt pine squirrels. But we like snowshoe. We did our first marmot hunt this year, which was eye opening and pretty fun.
Will
Yeah. A lot of those around, right?
Katie
You know, not as many as you'd think. I kind of pictured going out and just being surrounded by them. I realized that, you know, you see them in Rocky Mountain National Park where they come right up to you because they're getting Cheetos all the time.
Will
Right.
Katie
And when you go out in the middle of nowhere looking for them, you see a lot from far away, but you realize that you don't actually get close to them very often when you're out in the, not in the national park. So it was kind of surprisingly challenging. We, you know, we saw and heard a lot, but it was hard to get within, you know, 50, 75 yards to hit him with a 22. So that was eye opening, but really, really fun.
Will
That's fun. And what's your favorite game out of all that you chase?
Katie
To eat?
Will
Or to hunt?
Katie
Oh, to hunt. Man, I don't know if I could choose. We like every year we really love pronghorn. But if I only hunted on the plains, I think I'd get kind of sick of it. Like it's good. It's a good once a year hunt. is really frustrating, but the scenery is probably the best and you really get deep in the mountains. Honestly, I feel like small game, I love walking around the woods with people being able to talk, not having to get up at four in the morning in the dark. It's not as strict and stringent. Yeah. I think I find small game the most fun, but obviously you don't get as much meat. So I would prioritize big game if I could only choose one because we like having meat freezer, but just for the act of hunting, I think small game of various types is my favorite.
Will
That's awesome. Yeah. It's something that I've always wanted to dive into, but never really have. I have so many big old, I don't know what kind of squirrels they are, big old cord fed squirrels here on my farm. I see them outside of my window just sitting in the tree and gnawing on corn from the cornfield next door. Pretty funny. I got all kinds of stuff around here.
Katie
Do you do any hunting?
Will
Uh, I don't know. I do, um, waterfowl. Yeah. So I was out, I was out goose hunting, um, goose and duck hunting. I was just out goose hunting last weekend. I'll probably go out again this weekend. Um, and that's about it. When I was in South Dakota, I did a lot of pheasant hunting as well. Um, but yeah, I'd like to get into, uh, two things. I'd like to get into deer hunting and, you know, whitetail out here and, well, three things, whitetail, coyote hunting, and I'd like to get into fur trapping too. I think that's something that's always kind of piqued my interest. I have a cousin who does it around here and has like, you know, traps all kind of wild species. And I have, I live on a farm so I got, I know there's a little creek that runs through the farm so I know there's all kinds of stuff around and that's something that's always really piqued my interest too so I think I want to get into that. Little, I don't know if I want to say less entry to barrier to entry but the deer hunting here in Illinois it's I don't know it's it's you have to have it for a certain county so you have to know what county you're hunting in you have to know like the windows are pretty small it's only like two weekends for season, no rifles here. So I'd like to do it but haven't, but the trapping thing kind of interests me to tell you the truth.
Katie
Wait, you don't have a rifle season for deer?
Will
No, it's illegal. You can’t hunt deer by rifle here in Illinois. You have to use a shotgun with a slug.
Katie
I had no idea. I knew that you could use that in a lot of places. I didn't know that there were, I kind of assumed there was a rifle season for deer in every state.
Will
Yep, yep. By the way, yeah, there's a little pheasant there. Funny pheasant mount. A buddy of mine who was a taxidermist in South Dakota when I was living there made that for me. I thought that was funny.
Katie
Is that like a pheasant shoulder mount?
Will
Yeah, exactly. A pheasant shoulder mount. Only one I've ever seen too. It's hilarious. He gave it to me. I had it in my office and I worked in radio when I was in South Dakota. I had it in my radio office there and then I brought it with me back. It's pretty funny. But pheasant hunting is a blast too, like you said. Kind of like that similar small game atmosphere where it's, you know, stakes are a little less, like you're walking with your buddies, flushing birds up. I really enjoyed doing that too.
Katie
Yeah, I mean, I think I like small game hunting by myself too. I mean, I have done it by myself and I enjoy it. I really like the social aspect and I like not having to be silent. It's just more of like a fun group activity and like you said, the stakes are lower. Like if you miss something, it's like, well, we'll see another one, that's okay. Whereas if you miss a deer, you're like heartbroken 'cause you might've been waiting there for days for one to come past and then you blow it. So yeah, I don't know if you can see behind me, I've got a grouse fan on the wall too.
Will
Oh yeah, I see that.
Katie
Not as close as your shoulder mount.
Will
Yeah, I would have guessed that's a turkey, so that's a grouse.
Katie
Yeah, you probably can't tell scale. I've got a turkey fan out in the, a little bigger. Out in like our entry room, but it wouldn't fit on this wall.
Will
That's awesome. So your parents or your folks were not hunters or anglers?
Katie
No, my dad did a little bit of fishing kind of before I got into it, like he would go up for an annual trip with his brothers to Canada and they would kind of camp out and fish. But I think fishing was more of a way to feed themselves while they were out there. It was more about camping and canoeing around the lakes. And it happened to fish while they're out. But and he would take me like we would go out boating together. He enjoyed floating down the river. So he would float with me and I'd fish, but he wouldn't fish while he was with me. He was just there to be in the boat. But no, he wasn't a hunter and my mom didn't hunt or fish. So no, it was just something that I was interested in, I guess. I'm interested in the fur trapping that you mentioned 'cause that's something I would also be interested in picking up, but not living in the mountains. I'm pretty sure there's some laws around how often you have to check your traps. And so I don't think it's really feasible to like set traps in the mountains and live hours away from that and have to check them like every so often. So I'm kind of jealous about you being able to maybe pick that up on your own land 'cause I would be interested in that. I've been tanning the snowshoe hair pelts we get and I hope to make some things out of them. I don't know, hats or something.
Will
That's awesome.
Katie
I think it'd be really cool to get into that with like other types of fur.
Will
Totally, that's the main reason. Well, not the main reason, but one of the reasons I wanna do it, like I think it'd be awesome to make some, like some mitten trims or, you know, trim for my work jackets on the hood or something. Yeah, I think that'd be awesome. How has that process been going? Is that something that you've done before or you're just trying to learn or you've done it a bunch?
Katie
I would say a little bit of both. I'm trying to learn, but it worked the first time I did it. So, it's working, but I'm sure there's like more things I can learn to make them better. You know, some turn out better than others. I can probably get much better at skinning them to get a good quality pelt, I end up with a lot of raggedy edge. I need to trim some off to make it a decent shape. So I definitely get better at that. And I appear to only be good at doing it with animals that are not fatty, because I followed a process I found online for the hares. I mean, I found someone who has a rabbit farm and followed that process. And it worked great for the hares, but then I tried to do it on the marmots, and they were so fatty that it turned into It was just disgusting. I don't know how else to describe it.
Will
I'll take your word.
Katie
Everything was so greasy. So yeah, I can do it specifically on non-fatty rabbit-like animals.
Will
That's cool. That's funny.
Katie
But I hope to move up in the world at some point.
Will
Right. And do other animals as well. You're ahead of me. That sounds cool too, because yeah, those snowshoe hares, that white fur is so pretty.
Katie
It is. It's beautiful. I found a pattern online where you can make a hat That's you know one type of fur on the outside one type of fur on the inside and I think it'd be cool to get enough hairs and squirrels to do like a Hair on the outside squirrel on the inside for a hat But the squirrels are so small that it's gonna take a lot of squirrels for me to get to that point
Will
That'd be awesome are you familiar with the squirrel tail… I believe it’s Mepps who does it? they have a… You're familiar with that where you can send in your squirrel tails for for lure makers?
Katie
I am vaguely familiar with I've never done it But I I know the spinners are talking about and I think I knew that you could send in your squirrels But I guess I it was it was a memory. I forgot I had I read about it somewhere But I forgot about it until you mentioned it
Will
It might be one of those like legend things But I think I looked it up at one time and for those listening who doesn't make sense to you map spinners, it's a fishing lure They put little rooster tails on all of their lures, and I believe they're made out of squirrel tail, or a lot of them are made out of squirrel tail fur. So they are big buyers of squirrel tails. So they, I forget what the deal is, I want to say it's either, it's probably something lame like a discount on Mepps spinners, but I do know they buy them, which is kind of funny.
Katie
Yeah, I think I read that in maybe like a Field and Stream magazine or something, and historical thing, you know, if they still do it. I may have read like an old copy too, but I do remember reading something about them making them out of squirrel tails.
Will
Yeah. One story here and then we'll kind of start to wind her down, but I think something you'll appreciate is when we talked about my trip on the Yukon River on your podcast when we were talking yesterday. So 70 days across Alaska through the interior of Alaska, and we ended up in the Bering Sea. So where the Yukon River pours into the Bering Sea was our final day, 70 days after we started. And the river is, there's a little village that we were flying out of called Emonic, Alaska. And it's a little salmon canning village, actually. They have a salmon plant there where they commercially fish salmon. And anyway, the river is like 20 miles, maybe 15 miles past, past Emonic where it actually into the Bering Sea and touches saltwater. So we came into Emonic and we arranged with a guy who actually was the mayor of Emonic, funny enough, to pick us up by boat like the next afternoon out at the ocean and then rather than paddle upstream against the current back to Emonic, he was going to shuttle us in his boat back into town and we gave him, I don't know what it was, 50 bucks or 100 bucks or something to shuttle us back. And great guy, had a fun time with him out there and we were like celebrating with him and he was telling us a bunch of stories and when we got back he brought us to his house and his house is like, you know, shack is not the right word because it's much nicer than a shack but it's not the same thing you would think of driving down the road in your Colorado neighborhood. And anyway, he welcomes us in and he gives both my buddy and I a piece of tanned seal hide. And so it's like as a gift, he gave it to us. And so I have a piece of seal fur. It's like, I don't know, probably this big. It's a pretty big piece and it's awesome. Super smooth and just looks really beautiful, intricate with like silver and like little black dots on it. And I was asking him, because he had all kinds of fur. One of the cool things that I found out, they would use fur for all kinds of stuff. Trim. They use like caribou and wolf fur for like a sleeping pad, rather than like a thermo rest. They'd just lay down the fur and then use that to sleep on top of when they were camping. But anyway, the seal hide. So he gives it to me and I look at it. I'm like, "Oh, this is amazing." And I'm looking at it and I notice that there's two little holes in it. One of them is like a small kind of circular hole and one of them is kind of at an angle. And I'm looking at it and I asked him, I'm like, "Oh, what's going on here? Like is this a mess up in the tanning process or something?" And he's like, "Oh no." He's like, "That's where they shot them and that's where they speared them." Just still two holes in the fur from the perfect circular one was from where they shot them the one of the angle is where they speared it. Pretty wild.
Katie
So have you done anything or have plans to do anything with the seal hide or is it just more of like a decorative, like a cool thing to have?
Will
Yeah, it's a decorative piece. It's bad. It's been, sadly, it's been in my basement, but hopefully this conversation maybe, it needs to be hanging in this office. I've always like kind of had in my head like, you know how they tan the beaver hides with like the stretched out and just kind of looks like an old historical way. I want to do something like that, but obviously that's not fitting for Seal. But I don't know, I want to either frame it or do something, but I don't exactly know what. I want to hang it on the wall, basically, is what I want to do, but I don't know how to do it, really. I've gone to some custom framers and the prices they've given me, it's like, "No way."
Katie
I don't know what it is about frames, but I feel like anytime we get any sort of piece of art the frame is the limiting factor in terms of costs
Will
ridiculous
Katie
the prints, but man frames cost so much money.
Will
No. No, it's insane Yeah, I was surprised too. I was like, ah, this wouldn't be a big deal And I was like, oh, this was like a huge sale and I was like, yeah, okay. I'm definitely I'm not doing that I'll go another route Yeah, well Katie it's been a blast It's been a blast chatting with you and swapping some stories and sharing some fishing lore Anything else any final thoughts before we wind her down?
Katie
No, just thank you for having me on like we talked about at the beginning I feel like I make such great connections just cold calling or not cold calling but cold reaching out to people just saying like hey and It's crazy how people are willing to talk to you for an hour if you just ask and that's all it takes to kind of I feel like you get to know somebody. I got to talk to you twice, which is great. Like I said, being on the side of the bike is kind of a fun experience for me. So I just thank you for having me on.
Will
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for reaching out. It was great to connect. And remind me again, and remind folks the best way to tune into your podcast and to kind of find you and subscribe to what you got going on.
Katie
Sure. So it's just called Fish Untamed. You can find it wherever podcasts are found. The website is fishuntamed.com. There's some legacy blog posts on there as well as all the podcast episodes you can listen to on there. There's also a contact form for anyone wants to reach out or just fishuntamed@gmail.com if you don't feel like going through the contact form. And then I'm on Instagram @fishuntamed. It's really the only social media I use. And stuff on there. If I take a trip or something, maybe I'll share a photo, but for the most part, it's just podcast promotion. But folks can also message me on there if that's preferable to email, since it's usually a little bit faster for me to get the messages there. But yeah, that's about it. That's really the only place I'm active. So yeah, either email on the website or on Instagram.
Will
Okay, awesome. Fish Untamed. Katie, take it easy. Great chatting with you and tight lines.
Katie
Alright, you too Will, thank you. Alright, that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. You'll also find a contact link there if you want to reach out to me. And you can also find me on Instagram @fishuntamed. If you want to support the show, you can give it a follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app. And if you'd like to leave a review, it would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise, thank you all again for listening. I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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