Ep 91: Putting the Fun Back in Fishing, with Nick Fiorini
Nick Fiorini is a Jackson-based guide with Grand Teton Fly Fishing, Wind River Canyon Whitewater and Fly Fishing, and Big Wind River Fly Fishing. In this episode, we talk about how he got into guiding, some stories from his recent saltwater fishing trips, advice for anyone looking to get into guiding, why we need to protect our local fisheries, and the importance of getting back to fishing for the fun of it.
Instagram: @fish_with_fiorini
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Katie
You’re listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 91 with Nick Fiorini on putting the fun back in fishing. I’d just love to hear how you got your start in fly fishing.
Nick
I was young, my dad introduced it to me when I was maybe like six, like we had a little pond in front of my house and caught like the little bluegill, which are, man, they're so powerful, like a two-weight. And that kind of transferred. We had a lot of great trout fishing in West Virginia. It's actually getting recognized, it seems like, more and more. And it was great. So I had a bike and a dog and not a lot of kids around where I lived that were into it, so it was just me. I would just poke around in all sorts of places. Maybe not a lot of them were public, but when you're 14, they just smile at you. You offer to do some lawn work or something, in petty trade, and they see you're a good kid, just kind of fish in and try to stay out of trouble. That's how I got into it. And then I moved to Jackson and basically in 2019 or no, 2011 when I was 19 years old. And I read a book about my great uncle in the 1940s. He was a Fenwick pro and he kind of would fly people from Seattle into BC and Alaska and guy like John Wayne and Bing Crosby and all these super famous people. And I read it as a kid. And I'm like, "Hey, no, I wanna go give it a shot." And I had like other plans, kind of go to California and ski and then hang out with some buddies and they all fell through, didn't work out. So I moved to Jackson, like, limb and basically haven't left. So I ended up just fishing and being a trout bum for years, working in pizza shops, you know, lawn care, did basically whatever. and I would try to strategize to have like three day windows and four day windows where I could go fish and hike and backpack. I didn't really want a guide for like my early 20s. I was kind of more into just like, I was like, wow, like, you know, like I would like to go fish and like, kind of seems like none of these guys get to fish. And so I did that for a while. And then I worked at Snake River Angler for Will Dornan for one year and in the shop. And it was great, we had an awesome crew and it was just a really cool vibe, we had a great time and that kind of transformed me into being like, oh, like maybe I could, maybe I should guide, like it's kind of, might be my thing. And Buddy chased a girl down to Denver and left his boat in my driveway. And I was like, okay, like one of the managers found out and he's like, you have a boat? I'm like, yeah, like can I have a boat now? And he's just like, well, you gotta guide. And I'm like, okay, he's like, well, you can guide like on your weekends and you can work in the shop four days a week and you can guide three days a week. So I was like, oh, okay, so work seven days a week. I was like, yeah, okay. So I worked nights, like waiting tables, working in the shop in the morning. And then my days off I would guide and ended up liking just guiding so much that like I didn't take any days off and bought the boat outright from my buddy. and went to the shop and they're like, "Yeah, you should probably just die "and not work in the shop anymore." I was like, "Cool." So then I worked there for two more years and kind of got recruited over to Grand Teton Fly Fishing. And that's a really great show. I get to work along like Scott Smith and Josh Galvin, who Tom Montgomery, some really kind of really cool people. So it's cool to be kind of on the water and sometimes in the shop at the right times. once a year that we all get to see each other. So it's a cool crew. But yeah, I just bounce around and do all that kind of stuff.
Katie
Now, was it all it was cracked up to be to be a trout bum? Like before you guided, when you were truly just, you know, like scraping by, making what money you could just so you could go fish, like was that worth it?
Nick
Oh, I resent those days. Oh my God.
Katie
Yeah?
Nick
Yeah, oh yeah, they were some of the best, like some of, I mean, yeah, bring tears to your eyes kind of thing. You're just like, wow, like, being like an actual dirt bag and just making a buy, making life around it and being a diehard, just fishing on your own and just focusing on your own fishing is pretty incredible. That's how you get your, I feel like I tell people all the time, You gotta get your 10,000 hours. And I'm like, if you wanna feel like you're really confident, something like 10,000 hours. And you don't get that without putting in the time.
Katie
Do you think, 'cause you said that you were initially kind of like hesitant to guide, but then you've since found out that you actually like it. Do you think that having that little bit of time where you didn't have to worry about it as a job and you could just enjoy it, like do you think that allowed you to now enjoy like fishing through other people? 'Cause you feel like you've almost like gotten it out of your system. Like I've had my time to fish and now watching somebody else catch their first fish is just as exciting to you. Whereas I could see a new angler doesn't really care about watching someone else catch their first fish. But once you've caught enough fish yourself, you can kind of put yourself in that new mindset where now you're just as excited to get someone else on that fish.
Nick
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly how I look at it. And that's how every guide should look at it. If you don't get that time before you're a guide to enjoy that period, I feel like that's when guides burn out. They're just like jealous. Yeah, they're just like, they're not jealous, but like, you know, they just never like, you know, they never built up that like, that fun period and like, you know, like jumping around and fishing all these different fisheries and stuff. And you know, when you guide, like, you know, a lot of people, they get stuck on the same fisheries for, you know, so many times, so many days in a row, or maybe even some days, like multiple days on the same stretch, like day after day after day. and it burns you out. And I feel like, you know, when I try to talk to like people that are young, like 19 or 18, they want to get into guiding. I'm like, no, like be a trout bum, we're gonna shop, like build, build your way up. Like it's gonna be a better outrun than just like straight going into guiding and working every day and like, you know, being frustrated sometimes when people are as competent as they thought they were.
Katie
Right.
Nick
Who knows, you know? So it is what it is. But yeah, I have a couple of guys that I've talked to over the years that are gonna be fantastic guys. And one kid in general that I really like, he basically just, you know, he was very hesitant towards it. And I'm almost like glad because I'm like, you know, I'm like, what'd you do this summer? He's like, oh man, like I went and did this, I did that, and I was like, yeah, these are the years that like you should. And like, then you kind of grow You see what you did on your own, maybe you did something stupid. Maybe when you're guiding, you're like, "Oh, I did that on my own. I probably shouldn't do it that way." You learn. It's a learning aspect.
Katie
I feel like everybody, when they're in their college age or very early 20s, should have some sort of experience like that. For me, it actually was guiding because I only guided very seasonally in the summer, so it wasn't a full-time job. I didn't need the money. I didn't get burnt out because it was so short, but it was like all the guides living in this like terrible little house like crammed and there's someone like sleeping in the kitchen and like you I feel like everyone should have some sort of experience like that in their early 20s or even younger like in their 18 to 22 range where you're just like barely scraping by but you're having like the absolute time of your life doing it. It's just like I don't know I would I would not want to be in that place right now but I look back on it so fondly and I feel bad for people who didn't have that experience.
Nick
I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm doing too much better than I was then, but just because of the place that we live in is Jackson and it is what it is at this point. We don't even need to get into that because it seems like everybody else does in every other scenario, But it's expensive to live here. And it is, you know, we take, you know, it keeps getting more expensive. So...
Katie
I think to live in a place like that, you've got to make some sacrifices.
Nick
You have to, exactly.
Katie
You're getting, yeah, so much back from that.
Nick
Yeah. If you stay angry about it, you're only going to stay angry about it.
Katie
So do you guide year-round? Or do you switch to do something else in the winter?
Nick
No, I kind of plow snow or run a, you know, a hand shovel, like a shovel driveways and I like to say that I shovel H2O year round. (laughing) So paddles or a shovel, either one or the other. But basically I start guiding in the end of February a little bit. We get some windows on the Snake River here in Jackson where I just put my raft together and slip it in over the snow banks and we get some really incredible, some of probably the best fishing of the year, honestly.
Katie
Really?
Nick
Yeah, it's incredible midge hatches It seems like a lot of people, it's a lot of work to probably get your raft out in the middle of winter, you know, get something to it, slide in over the snow, figure out how to get it out of the river, which is a lot harder than getting into the river. But if you do kind of figure out these little ways around it, and there's, you know, we have a low snow year, we get really, really amazing fishing. So I usually start doing that a little bit at the end of February, do about 15 trips through March, try to do a little traveling in March before like the season takes off 'cause I head down to Thermopolis, Wyoming for about three months and leave my wife here in Jackson. So try to make a little time for her and me and go to a foreign country or something, go do some fishing. And so we do that and then I go to Thermopolis, Wyoming, central part of the state for three months and guide Wind River Canyon for Derek Calhoun. And that's a phenomenal fishery and we have a lodge setting there. And we also have the Bighorn River, which is an exceptionally phenomenal river. So, and no real major cities close. So it's a really cool, it's a really cool place. So I'm really fortunate to have that aspect. So I spend about three months down there and come back the end of, real end of June, tail end of June, start guiding in Pinedale, Wyoming, via Jackson. So that's where my drives start, like the old two hour drive to work every day back kind of scenario. So do that for about six weeks and then I pop back here for in Jackson and fish the snake when the fish are gonna coming out of the springs and into the main part of the river. Fish that for a couple weeks and I fish Crow Heart Wyoming in that period of time too, which is like the wind river, upper wind river stretches, the freestone stretches on the Indian reservation. It'd be like northern spot of the reservation and do that a little bit that's awesome. We're like kind of the only people allowed to float there unless you're enrolled travel member. So when we like put in in the morning no matter what time it is I get like look at people I'm like you can look upstream all day like no way he's gonna be there. It's like kind of our place today and There's low density fish there, but really cool. So I do that and then head back to Jackson for September. Usually just do my same people I fished with since the first year I ever fished, same dates every year. So I do that one and then I go back down to Thermopolis for October. So I'm all over the place. That's why when we try to chat, it's usually, it was a little tough.
Katie
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense now. like everywhere every every like month you're somewhere else. Thermopolis is bringing up like bad memories for me that my one memory of Thermopolis was getting my my one and only speeding ticket on Christmas Day for going 38 in a 30. And I was like can't you just cut me some slack on Christmas for going 38 miles an hour? Like come on.
Nick
Probably in Shoshone. Yeah probably right there in Shoshone before the turn. There's always somebody there. Yeah. If you go just a little bit over I'll get you too. So many clients every year come down and they're like, "They got me!"
Katie
They're like, they know that your clients are coming and they're like, "We're gonna get these folks. They're excited to go fishing." Do you do much skiing in the winter up in Jackson?
Nick
Yeah, I did. I used to do a lot of skiing. I had an injury in 2014 that kind of messed things up with my knee that's not been the same. So I've kind of trended away from skiing a little bit and just trying to actually make a little bit of money. I'm trying to do a little bit more travel and do a little more fishing actually.
Katie
Yeah, going skiing more is definitely not going to make you more money. That's one sure thing.
Nick
No. Yeah. I've definitely played the whole dirt bag scenario where I ski like 100 days or a year or more. It was super fun and I would never trade any drop of it for the world. I would trade everything back for it, to tell you the truth, but it's just not the way it is anymore.
Katie
You mentioned some things that you wanted to talk about today, and I think we're going to be all over the board because it is all over the board. But one last thing about guiding before we hop into some of the other topics is, do you have any advice for somebody who is in that place in their life where they're really considering becoming a guide, but they're not sure how to take that plunge or if they want to take that plunge? Do you have one or two pieces of advice for that person that would help them out?
Nick
Yeah, yeah. Try working in a fly shop because you're gonna interact with those people that are gonna go on guided trips and you gotta see how you feel with those interactions. Like some people are people, people and some people aren't. And I'm not a people person, but I can turn it on and be a people person when I need to be. And like, that's your aspect and you learn how to approach people and where to approach people like their body language in the shop, I feel like. And I feel like when I'm feeling at a new guest, I read into you a lot. Your body language, if you show up on time, if you show up like 30 minutes before, like, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm playing you out for the day because you know, it's gonna play out in your fishing, like a lot of a lot of people, I feel like a lot of people's emotions play out at the end of that stupid fly rod.
Katie
Tell me more.
Nick
Yeah. And so that's what it is. But yeah, so yeah, I feel like try working in a fly shop. You know, try talking to some guys. That's probably the hardest thing is talking to other guys. Seems like a lot of other guys don't like to be open sometimes. And just trying to find that right guy and feeling their body language and having the He's standing there and be like, "Hey, I'm interested. How do I go about this?" And it might be a little bit, feel like that guy might be, feel like these guys toes stepped on a little bit. So it could be interesting, but I don't really see it that way. There's new guides every day and it seems like you can even do one every minute. And I was a new one at 1.2 and nobody shows up with 10 years of experience. So you have to start somewhere And if you want to do it, I say try it for sure. It's not going to be for everybody. I see a lot of guys get into it and do it for just a couple of years and kind of trend other places, but they always remember those years. So it is cool.
Katie
What about actually getting your foot in the door? Do you think that working at a fly shop is the best way just because you're going to start interacting with these people and that kind of makes you the natural best person to take that next open position they're looking for, but, or is there another way that you think like approaching to get one of these jobs that's better?
Nick
Yeah. Like, I think that like, so there's kind of two scenarios that I've seen play out. And like the one is the way I started at Will Dornan's and he wanted you to work in the shop for him a year for a year. And he wanted to make sure I think on that point, he wanted you to work in the shop for a year because he had a hard time finding people working in the shop. So you kind of had to pay your dues. And that's a big part of guiding is kind of trying to pay your dues a little bit. And so you want to work in the shop and then he wants to make sure you can show up on time. He wants to feel out how you are over a season. Okay, 'cause a lot of people show up and you know, they're real bubbly at the beginning of the season and then they get a few trips into them and then the deterioration starts throughout the fall. And he wants to, I think that the way Will Dornan did a snake river angler probably one of the smartest ways I've seen it. And then Darren Calhoun started a program this year that was an internship and that was really cool and he got a couple of enrolled tribal members, which is really, really important for the reservation and because they should be guiding on their native land. And we got a couple of them into the program and it's a really cool thing. They work in the shop, they would run shuttles, they would know how to do everything. Okay. So if something would happen, they know where they can step in or, you know, teetering down the ladder, if something would happen, they know where people might be in strategy. And they have one kid in the program, Brayton, I thought it was, you know, he's 19, he showed up, and I'm like, oh, like, you know, this kid's really young and like sleeping in his car. I like this kid already. And he started living in a camper next to mine with no heat all summer. I mean, it didn't even end the summer, but the fall, I was like, man, we need to get you a propane tank. But he was dirtbagging it up. And he would go out with clients and he started getting a little bit of trips and he started running whitewater and started getting the flow of the canyon a little bit, which is not an easy thing. But he started going up to Crowhart and started getting this feel up there. and he was on the big horn a little bit. And I would kind of see his clients in the morning, I'd be like, "Oh, you fished with Brayden today." And they'd be like, "Oh yeah." And I'm like, "How was your day yesterday?" "Man, I really liked that kid." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's what I like to hear." And I don't think they would tell him, but I would go up to him, pat him on the back, "You know what, you're doing a good job." Like, if they're not telling you, I'm telling you, 'cause somebody needs to. So I think those kinds of programs are kind of really good. I don't like guide schools. I don't think those are, I think they're too short lived. I think a week isn't gonna prepare you for a lifetime. I feel like programs like this where you're actually, like actually doing the job, but you're also trying to feel out the other logistics of what's going around is gonna help. But for foot in the door, I mean, sorry, I'm a rambler.
Katie
That's fine.
Nick
I mean, you just got to apply. And I feel like a lot of people these days, they always, they talk and they never apply. If you don't apply, you'll never get in.
Katie
I can't speak to guide school specifically because I didn't attend one and I don't know a lot of people who have. I know a handful who have, but I guess, and so I'm not going to say anything about them or the quality of what they do because I've never, I've never experienced it. But I feel like guiding is more just like, do you have the right personality for it. You know, it's not a matter of your skills. Like, there are skills that you can develop. And honestly, I feel like they're more related to, are you a good teacher than are you the best fisherman on the river? You will probably become one of the best fishermen on the river if you're out there every day. But at the end of the day, being good guide is 80% being able to show someone a great time and be able to handle situations when they come up. And as long as you know how to fish, then that'll, like, the fish will come. But I feel like that's just a matter of like, do you have the personality for that? You know, does it do you feel comfortable around people and rethinking things when it's not going as planned and just like thinking on your feet, like all those things like that's not something you can teach in something like a guide school. You could teach kind of logistical things, but at the end of the day, like what you said that this guy who, you know, he sleeps in his car and he's just like, so jazzed about it, like that personality that just like you You want it so bad and you're so excited about it. That's the kind of thing that you can't be taught. I feel like you just know it when you see it. That's the kind of person that really fits in that role.
Nick
Yeah. He's a kid that would absorb information too. Absorbing information and listening to other people, even if it's sometimes hard to, absorbing what they're saying and then just maybe portraying it as what you think it is, that's how you kind of, I feel, evolve. But I told him, I was like, you need to go to Chile, you need to do a full-time thing. And he called me yesterday and he's like, "Yeah, I'm going to Chile." He's like, "I got a job." I'm like, "Yeah, that's exactly." (laughing) I'm like, "If you don't apply, you won't get in." You know what I mean? You applied, you got in. Now he's 19, he's gonna be a full-time guy. And I'm really pumped for him. He grew up in Bozeman, so I think he might've had some of those fishing years in high school that I didn't get 'cause I lived out east. But I hope he did. But he is young, but he's enjoying it and that's the most important part.
Katie
Good for him. Switching gears a little bit, you said that you've been doing some saltwater fishing. It sounds like you just came back from a trip. Tell me more about that. Is this new for you and how has it been going, like switching gears to saltwater?
Nick
Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to get into saltwater. It's not cheap. So, you know, I got to kind of try and pick places where to go and times to go, 'cause my season is getting longer and longer and longer each year. So I just got back from seeing some family in South Carolina, Charleston area. So I went out with, it was Captain Pat Pearson in Bulls Bay one day and loved the area, but we had a tropical storm roll in right before that. and then it was kind of followed by like a weird cold front. And we kind of discussed this on the way out. And I was just like, you know, we've kind of had the vibe that it might not be the greatest day ever kind of going into it. And I was like, this is gonna be a fun day. Like my uncle's out here and I've fished in a long time. We did that, but transferring into that, but it was a terrible day. I had not very good fishing and, but I had a great day with Pat and we kicked it. And he was like the best guy and I just, I had the vibe all day from him that I'm like, I'm coming back to fish with you again. Pat, like I know this is just the shittiest fucking scenario. Sorry, that we could possibly have. And you're working so hard. Like I kept telling my dude, thank you for all of your work. He's working so hard. He's like, trying so hard. And like, you know, we got like four fish that we only saw tail like, like vanished. And like, I was like, what happened? He's like, I don't know what to tell you. I was just like, it's just what happens when kind of guides like care too much and they book guided fishing trips. And like, it always just blows up in your face. Like other guides come and pick trips with me from other places. It blows up my face sometimes about 50% of the time. It's just, it's the way fishing is. It's just fishing and there's no way fall. And like, it's just weather. So the biggest thing about saltwater fishing for me right now is just strategizing around weather. Went to Costa Rica in April and had like six and a half foot seas on the first two days. It couldn't like, could barely stay under the boat and like, and that was, I had kind of like a four day window and like the last two days it just like tapered off and it just didn't work out. But I've had really bad luck saltwater fishing. But I am really, really addicted to it for some weird reason. It's like gambling for me. I'm like terrible at it, but I just love pissing my money away.
Katie
Would you say that was the biggest eye-opener for you in terms of it being different? 'Cause obviously there's a lot of things that differ between saltwater and freshwater fishing, but was that the biggest eye-opener? Where you're just like, man, you could go down there for a four-day trip and never get weather that really allows you. Whereas I wouldn't expect that. If I booked a four-day trip to Wyoming, I'd expect that one of those days we're probably gonna crush it. Even if a couple of those days are bad. Is that the biggest difference any other like notable differences you've seen?
Nick
Yeah it's just like yeah it's just like I would go down and be like ah sweet like you know full moon like you know like the time should be good like looking down the weather and I'm like perfect perfect perfect and then like I look like absolutely before every saltwater trip like two days before it'd be like whoa like huge rain huge winds I'm like oh are you kidding me? I mean this has been like I've maybe went on like a dozen saltwater trips ever. I haven't been on a much, but probably about three of them have been by good weather. We had great fishing, but then I was talking to some other people about that and they're like, "That's a great percentage."
Katie
Oh, man.
Nick
I was like, "Okay, a lot of other people get shitty weather too."
Katie
That percentage seems fine if you live on the coast, but if you're traveling every time to do it, that's not a winning percentage.
Nick
I can't complain because when clients come out and, you know, like I'm looking at the weather beforehand and I'm filling it in and it backfires my face and I just have to be like I want to be the perfect client when I'm saltwater fishing for when I, because guiding is in bad weather, in bad conditions is way worse than fishing in bad weather.
Katie
Yeah.
Nick
because the guide is caring way more and he knows what's going on and it's just not happening. So in that scenario, I always feel worse for the guide in any scenario of that sort. I'm just like, we can call it early, like whatever you wanna do. Yeah, that's my saltwater. My saltwater has been very minimal, but I'm trying to get more into it.
Katie
Well, like you mentioned, I mean, how hard he was working. That's, I mean, I can feel like that's kind of the case across the board. When the fishing's good, you don't have to work that hard. The fish are doing the work for you, but when the fishing's bad, suddenly you have to kick it into high gear and really put some effort in. Sometimes people don't notice that, that you're working so hard and they're like, "Yeah, we didn't catch anything." It's like, if only you could understand how much effort I was putting into you not catching anything.
Nick
Yeah. It's really hard for me to cast into the wind. I'm like, "Yeah, if it's really hard for you to cast, it's really hard for me to row."
Katie
Right.
Nick
I mean, it is. It's a funny scenario when people haven't been in the middle seat shoes, is what I like to call it. Actually feeling what is going on in the real world, in the middle.
Katie
What species have you had some luck on, saltwater?
Nick
Just redfish, really.
Katie
Okay.
Nick
Yeah, just redfish. I kind of spent most of my afternoon trying to find spots in Puerto I'm kind of looking at that spot for March. I heard some beta down there. So I'm trying to maybe go get some tarpon fishing down there but really just redfish. I'm trying to figure out kind of where I can go on my budget. It's, fly fishing is an expensive sport and to do the really cool stuff, you have a lot of money. It seems, but you can, I'm trying to figure out the DIY steps. It's just more in my realm. And, uh, you know, I like to fish for trout still too. So, you know, I fish the South forks, I'm the winner. And I go to pyramid every once in a while, uh, for like a week and do that kind of thing. So, you know, I try to like get out and just do things that are kind of maybe a little bit more in my realm. Um, I feel like, you know, I always get on like social media or something and look and I'm like, "Oh man, everybody's like everywhere, you know, like catching permit and bonefish and sailfish and rooster fish." And I'd love to go do that. It's so cool. But I can only kind of strategize so much time in my schedule and my money to make guiding profitable and not be a dirt bag my whole life.
Katie
(laughing) Worse things have happened though.
Nick
I mean, it's really cool. And I'm figuring out more and more of like where I can go and maybe get a cheap trip or maybe host a trip or I'm trying to, I have Scott Smith and Josh Gallon kind of mentoring me and Tom Montgomery on some kind of hosted trips. And they're trying to help me like figure out how to get into doing that. 'Cause they're like, you love to fish and you should go see these places. And I really want to, they understand that I'm just kind of a normal guy. I like to fish, but I can't afford it.
Katie
Well, it's tough because I feel like it's, you hear this, fly fishing is so expensive. And when I first hear that, I feel the need to push back. Like, no, you need a rod, a reel, a couple of flies, and you can just walk out and start fishing for 200 bucks. But then, yeah, if you wanna start to go places and fish, suddenly it does get really, really expensive. So it's kind of like this, it is and it isn't super expensive, depending on what you wanna do. But if you fish enough, you're eventually gonna hit that point where you'd like to go see something new that you haven't seen before. And that's when it's like, you're gonna have to start paying some money to get to these places.
Nick
Yeah, it's just a transformation in your, as in your angling career. You start kind of trending towards other things. I've caught a lot of trout and just, I'd like to catch smallmouth or musky, I like pike fishing. I like all sorts of fishing. I feel like, you know, trout, when you catch trout like 180 days or plus years and days a year, it becomes a little, you know, I don't even know how to explain it. It's just repetitive. It's just repetitive, repetitive, repetitive. You know, some fish you catch are awesome and some of them are awesomely small. But it just gets repetitive. And it's as cool as these, just go to these other places and talk to other guys and see how they do things and how their life works. And there's so much more to this sport, I always tell people, than catching a fish. That's like the 10%, like 90% of it is like whatever else you wanna make it into. but it's not more. It's more about experience. It's about seeing where you're at.
Katie
Finding new friends, seeing new places, like all kinds of stuff. Yeah. You could derive from it.
Nick
Seeing new places, playing the chess board, figuring out the game, finding other anglers, meeting other anglers, whatever you wanna get out of it. It's so many things to so many different people, which is why it's so cool.
Katie
Now do you have any of these other species like pike and smallmouths and stuff like that near Jackson? I feel like it must be a little bit of a drive to get to some of these other species, but maybe I'm wrong.
Nick
Yeah, Idaho, we have some like three hours away in Idaho we have some smallmouth. And that's a really cool fishery. I get to do that every once in a while. And we do have some mirror carp fishing, which is really cool. I did the Johnny Boyd carp classic at a carp tournament over at Blackfoot Reservoir this year with two of my clients that I fished with the most. They invited me to go. They didn't have a third. I said, "Sure, I'll go." We saw tons of carp, and it was really fun, so we'd do that a little bit. That was really fun. I do that, but I go down to Colorado and do a little bit of the pike fishing down there with a couple of buddies. And I really liked that fishery a lot. I feel like pike are a lot like cutthroat. Like it's really cool when you get to see them eat, but they don't really fight too hard for like their length. Like the first one I caught like with a buddy was actually fairly large. And he's like, "Oh, you're spoiled." And I was like, "What?" Like he didn't kind of do anything. And he's like, "Yeah, that's kind of pike." I'm like, "Well, like they're just like giant cutthroat kind of." You know, it's all about like seeing me and then you just like lift your rod and it's like over. And it was really cool, I like them. It was, we got like one to eat on a figure eight, which was fun. Like, I mean, it's a super fun scenario, like so different. They like opened my mindset, like totally. And it was really cool. Actually started tying some flies for trout off of some of those flies that I was sawing. They started working really well. So I do, I like to pop around. I'm gonna start doing that more. We caught a walleye on the fly, which was cool and it has bug eyes. And like, I mean, it was cool. Like, I mean, it has scales and like not skin. I was like, this is sweet. And yeah, so I like doing that. I really want to go for muskie. You know, I guess, you know, you have to hate yourself enough at one point to go chase muskie enough.
Katie
Yeah, you gotta dedicate some time to it too.
Nick
I know, I know. I got to figure out when to make time for that. But yeah, I mean, I feel like you just got to go musky fish with the right guys because it's just going to be a conversation all day.
Katie
I got to say, I've never heard someone compare pike to cutthroats before. That's got to be a first.
Nick
Sorry, sorry. I mean, yeah, I'm a little out of the ordinary when I compare things. But They're beautiful. It's the most native fishery. You'll get some really, really hard fighting fish, but sometimes four or five guides will pick on the same fish in this little spot every day. By the end of the summer, he just doesn't fight anymore. He just rolls over and comes in. I'm like, "We can't even hold this fish up anymore. He's so over it."
Katie
I get what you're saying. I feel like Cutthroat, for me, it's more about getting them to take than it is the fight. Whereas something like, I don't know, a lot of the river fish, like rainbows or browns, they'll put up a huge fight too, but it's not necessarily difficult to get a rainbow to rise. And I feel like that, I see the comparison you're making with Pike and Cutthroat, where the fun is in everything up to when you hook them. And then you just bring them in, take a picture, and let them go. It's really fun to try to solve that puzzle of like, can I get it to take?
Nick
Yeah. Like some fish, I break the hook off for clients and I'm like, "You want to watch this fish eat like a couple times?" And they're like, "Really?" And I'm like, "Yeah, try it." And we'll throw a little mayfly up there and he'll suck it down and like he'll hold on to it too and bend the rod and like it'll finally come out. He's like, "No way." And I'm like, "We'll throw it back up there." And they'll like eat the same mayfly. He's like, "You want to see it a third time? color it purple.
Katie
I've heard of people doing that on Steelhead.
Nick
Yeah, yeah. It's a technique. It's a really cool technique. I feel like I like to show anglers that are setting the hook too quickly. So I like to show them that, you know, like they really like, you know, if they eat it at the right angle, they don't really spit it out that quick. I mean, I feel like they spit those nymphs out quick, but that's a delay in between the indicator and the fly. But when they eat a dry fly, and they go down with it, sometimes they go down. They're not letting go.
Katie
Well, I wonder if maybe the idea behind that is that they... I don't know, I'm just speculating, but if they come up and eat it, my guess would be that they would be more likely to spit it out once they've gotten back down to where they were. And so you've got that maybe one or two seconds of them descending before they're like, "I'm I'm gonna spit this out versus like try to spit it out while they're going back down Whereas a nymph it enters their mouth and then they just immediately will spit it back out because they didn't have to move like they're Just like this is it what I want it's gone So I don't know if there's any like validity to that But it seems like I would probably want to do one thing and then do another thing and not try to like spit it out while I'm still descending
Nick
I Know and we put an amazing amount of thought into everything we think about when the fish eats It is we have such big brains that they have such little brains. It is amazing How much thought process we put in to just leave it there and we're like, oh the angle
Katie
yeah, and they still outsmart us every time
Nick
Yeah, they do it like, you know, he'll eat the fly I totally thought like it was a good hook set and it like comes clean and Guys, what I do wrong and my new saying now I'm just telling people I'm like, you know, like he ate it wrong. He didn't want it that way. Like he ate it right? It's his fault like not your fault. Like I don't know what to tell you like
Katie
There are times there's nothing you can do.
Nick
Yeah, exactly. But it is what it is. You know fishing’s fun
Katie
Another thing that I say you want to talk about that I'm not sure if these two topics can kind of be combined but like you mentioned Kind of the push toward taking care of our fisheries a little bit more And kind of tying that in with how a lot of places and you mentioned specifically Wyoming in the summer like temperatures are getting high A lot more people out there handling fish that maybe don't know how to handle fish. And also kind of the rise of the influencer world. I feel like all these things are kind of intermingled. They all relate to each other. So I don't know exactly where you want to take it, but I'd love to just hear your thoughts on all this stuff and the pros and cons of where we're headed in light of the fact that we're hitting a lot of these warmer waters in the summer and the fish are struggling.
Nick
All right, well, this is…Wyoming doesn't have a hoot owl system.
Katie
Okay.
Nick
Like Montana. So it is upon the guide to pull the plug when it is too hot. And, you know, years since I've been here, we haven't really had those hot water temperature years, like in the seventies in the snake, But due to our drought, our really low reservoir, and we only have a 40 foot dam release, so it's not like necessarily coming off the bottom of the lake either. So it's a confusing scenario, 'cause everybody feels like it comes off the bottom of the reservoir. Not every dam comes off the bottom of the reservoir. They're 30, 60, they come off mid-level. Like Idaho owns the top 40 feet of our lake. So like all that water goes down to Idaho, it feeds all the way down to Twin Bridges, past, you know, all the way in the Columbia. So we don't have a hood law system and our waters are changing as in the reservoirs are getting lower, especially in Jackson and we're getting hot water temperatures. And it's kind of a divided system between guides right now because it's like a he said, she said about the thermometer. So it's like, you know, like I'll be like checking my, I'll throw it in the morning right when I get to the boat ramp it's like kind of mark my flag throw my thong and go up get my boat ready go down put the boat in check them out. So I check the thermometer Louis that temp see what I need to do but you adjust when I'm going to check the next time. So if it's so and so I'm going to go to this time I'll check it this time. But if I'm at 12 o'clock you know I'm fishing it's 68 degrees. I'm like, oh, okay, we're done. I clip off their flies. So like no one gets like a bright idea. And we row out and I see other guys just like putting in. And I don't want, we're not gonna get any names or anybody. It's not, it's weird because I don't think it should be upon what you think and I think. And I think it should be more upon the state to take care of, they do take care of our fisheries and I love Wyoming's Game and Fish and all of their officers, they're all great people. And they don't do anything wrong, it's not that, it's just there should be some type, they need to, in state of law, if for certain elevations at certain water temperatures on certain rivers that need to be shut off at one o'clock. two o'clock for hudalla just for the summer. And it wouldn't be a big adjustment. And with more anglers and everyone has to get a picture of the fish and oh he has to be out of water and like, with all of this going on, I just think that it's not gonna be a benefit to what's the future of Wyoming fisheries. And you know, like the early mornings, like during these hot water temperatures, they're phenomenal, they can be great fishing. And you can see the trend of it turning slowly off. And it's not like you're not gonna get great fishing through hot water temperature. So I don't understand why we're fighting it. But, and it's not, I don't feel like the guides wanna be out there either at two o'clock in the afternoon, 90 degrees, sweating it out with a client, having bad fishing. But they booked a full day fishing trip. But Earl didn't wanna get out of bed till seven o'clock this morning. You know what I mean? So like they're playing like the, I wanna do this because this is kind of what my routine is.
Katie
Well, I feel like the law would help because then it would be like, it's out of your hands. So you're not fighting the client. And I don't know if you've had clients that have like resisted this. I'm sure like the right person is like all in probably for ending early to protect the fishery. But then you've got, like you said, the person who rolls in late, they booked a full day. But that puts it on you to have to be that guide who says we have to stop early, even though you booked this. Whereas if it was a state thing, you'd have, I mean, it'd be like, well, the state says, you know, it's out of my hands. It's not my fault.
Nick
And that would be great. Or it could be a national park thing. It could be anything. I mean, or not just that, they could just do a daily enlightenment of people. Like post on social media or get out to people that are like where they're looking at, their fishing reports and post it. Like our shop does a really good job. Like everybody comes in and sees Bruce and Bruce is like, all right, water temperatures are hot in the afternoon. get out early, you know, best on this and this and this. And they're really, really adamant about it. Orvis does a really good job about it too. And there are people that are kind of notifying people, but it's a fly shop. So they just think that like, they act like it's like, we're like, oh, you should try this fly. You know what I mean? But you should try fishing really early in the morning. And basically from there, it's like, they just act as kind of like a recommendation versus like a need.
Katie
Yeah.
Nick
So that's kind of where it's getting weird. It's because it's just like, everybody kind of treats like the hot water temperatures as a recommendation instead of the actual need. And if we want them to get bigger and you want to like hold them up, but you want to get your like two footer, you know, everybody's dream, like you got to put them back and they got to live and they kind of get through to the next year so they can grow. Like it's just like my saltwater fishing. (laughing) You come out, you're like, yeah, okay. But this is our window. This is what we got to do, okay. It's just, it's evolving. You have to, this sport's about adapting. If, and if we can't learn to adapt, that's it. So yeah, I feel like it's just, it's terrible. 'Cause I would, a couple times this year, I'm like cutting my flies and I'm rowing out and I'm doing my thing. And like I pass other guys, my clients, they're gonna be like, well, they're fishing. And I'm like, "Yeah, they are." And he's like, "Well, you didn't say anything to him." I'm like, "Yeah, 'cause I'm just tired of confrontation, "man, I'm tired of telling people, "hey, you shouldn't be fishing." When he probably knows you shouldn't be fishing, but he's doing it anyways 'cause that's just the way he's doing today, I guess.
Katie
Yeah, have you had much pushback from guests?
Nick
Just a couple. Most guests, I give them the light down. I'm pretty light with people all day and they miss fish and I'm like, whatever, man. Like it's trout fishing, we'll go find another one. So I feel like they get my vibe. And then when they ask me if they can fish again, I give them a little bit of a serrated edge vibe where I'm like, no. And I kind of put the vibe out where I'm like, no, we're not fishing. Like the water temp's too hot. Like it'd be like you running away from a bear at 100 degrees, okay? Like you're still not gonna, you're not gonna get away from the bear because you're the bear, okay? He's got a line connected to you, okay? But you're still gonna run away as fast as you can, okay? You're probably gonna die of exhaustion, okay? Well, don't you think? He's like, yeah. I'm like, that's what's gonna happen to this fish. He's gonna like die of exhaustion because the bear is trying to get him. You know, it's just like, you gotta think about it that way because there's a lot more anglers. And if we're gonna have more anglers, and it's a good thing we have more anglers, it's a growing sport, it's evolving, it's helping everybody get into the sport, and more guys get into it. But if we wanna do this, we have to take care of these fisheries. And that's gonna be like, you know, exactly with water temperatures, it's gonna be with handling fish. If you can ask a lot of my clients, between about June and August, we don't touch very many fish. We net them, I'd kind of take the hook out. Every once in a while, I might hold up one for them, but we kind of release them in the water most of the time, just because they come back year after year. And we do, I mean, I'm not, we all have fish that eat it wrong or are just sick and they die. And it puts a weird light and vibe in the boat for the day. And it's not fun. You know, I've had guys just like catch really nice fish right after it. all I thought about was that dead fish. And I'm like, you know, like that's all I'm thinking about too. So it's all about kind of taking care of our fisheries. And then in social media, it's just kind of, it's kind of like, I don't know what to explain it as. It's a wild aspect. There are just people all over the place. I just like popping up, like I see local anglers popping up all new, you know, like I'm like, what is going on? but it's more about like, see me. And I don't know, I fish because this is what I do. When I sit in the middle of the sea, that's like my comfy, like my safe spot. Like I can relax and I feel like more centered than anywhere else in my life. So, but I don't, I like to hold up a big fish every once in a while and I like to chase big fish, but I'm not out there to show everybody. And I feel like that's kind of the vibe I'm getting more.
Katie
Have you noticed an uptick in that? I don't know if you've been guiding long enough to have really seen a transition since, at this point, social media's been around quite a while, but I do feel like in the past maybe five years, there's almost been a different, an explosion of…
Nick
Yeah, that's where you're right.
Katie
Yeah, of what you're talking about, with the “see me,” 'cause I feel like social media for a while was just like, I wanna share what I'm up to with my friends, which I feel like that kind of social media use It's really not the problem. Here's a picture of me on a hike with my friends. No one's upset about that. It's the, I'm doing this thing I wouldn't have done before because I want attention for it from strangers. And that, I feel like, shifted what people are doing. Now they're doing things they wouldn't normally do because of this pressure.
Nick
I wanted to say it that way, but I didn't want to say it that way. But I'm glad you said it that way. But yeah, that's the absolute vibe I'm getting. And that's it really. I mean, it's, yeah.
Katie
Have you seen a shift? Like as long as you've been guiding, has that changed since when you first started to now or is it kind of always been that way?
Nick
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's definitely changed. Yeah. I didn't have, I don't think I had an Instagram when I first started guiding and then I got one for guiding. And then now I'm like, it's an interesting concept Because I'll give you a scenario. Like I'm guiding in the Wind River Canyon and I follow this guy on Instagram, and I see him on the bank all the time. And he seems like a nice guy, whatever. But he comes up with a crew and it's like, they get like a bunch, I see them, they take a bunch of photos and then it's like a 10 day cycle of photos. 15 day cycle of photos. Because they can run the social media like the weird cyber world and get their face up and I don't know I don't know why they do it but like um but I see him post something and I'll drive up the next day with a shuttle driver and I was coming down and there were eight people fishing in the exact spot he posted and from the day before. And I'm like, this is a little bit of a disadvantage to social media right here. Because I'm like, the whole place is open. And everybody is right here. And it's just because they're following by curiously through somebody else. It's like a game for people. They're always strategizing. Oh, where's this guy? I'm looking at the background. I'm trying to do on Google Earth. Where do you think this guy goes? Oh, I saw him heading north out of town like two days ago, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? So it's like a strategy. So it's like, it's weird. It's a weird vibe. But yeah, I mean, it's a see me. And I think we all had maybe that stage a little bit, like you post like a couple, you know, good year and posting up some big fish photos and having a good time. But then you realize kind of there's repercussions to that. And I did that once and I had some repercussions. You know, I had some friends that, you know, weren't happy with me and I'm, you know, I apologize and they were totally right. I probably shouldn't have posted those photos of those fish and then, you know, and then I also had people, you know, starting to get, you know, people started getting notice, they start asking, you know, I mean, that's a cool thing, but we have to guard something that's a natural resource and the fish spawn and make new fish, but it's not necessarily a new renewable resource. And that's kind of the way I'm looking at it nowadays. It's not as renewable resource. So Instagram could be just, I just don't feel like a lot of people are looking at it that way through social media. They're just kind of like, I'm going to the spot. I'm gonna go, I got these flies and flash out, you're gonna work really well. I'm gonna like dredge this hole in NIMS all day, get a pig, or stand here all day, not let anyone else fish here all day, kind of thing. There's fisheries now where like, if you don't get there at 6 a.m. for like, and you're like fishing for rainbows, which are not necessarily my favorite fish ever, but like I've watched guys, like I got there at like 6 a.m. I was like five minutes behind them. They walked us by, I'm like, oh, cool. I was like fish down here for a few hours, come up, and they stay on there all day. And this went on for weeks and weeks. And it was just like that, but it was like that guy. And then I got online and I was like, oh, here's his 10 day, 15 day cycle of photos.
Katie
For that one spot.
Nick
I'm like, from that one spot, but like, he's not like willing to share with other anglers or like do anything out of this realm. He's just, it's greed. Instagram is a lot, there's a little greed in that stuff.
Katie
Well, what do you think the end goal is? 'Cause obviously there's the attention of like, look at me, but where does that go? I mean, I suppose it could end in like a sponsorship or you get hired by some company to make content, but apart from that possibility, which is kind of slim that that's gonna actually go somewhere really meaningful for you. Like, what's the end goal?
Nick
I think it just ends up in fucking cyberspace. (laughing) They're going to get older, they're going to have a kid and they're going to get out of it. All their followers are going to start slowly unfollowing them because they're going to start posting baby pictures every day.
Katie
It's going to trend into the circle of life.
Nick
Exactly. The circle of the Instagram fly fisherman, the five-year turn. It's weird. I'd almost give up everything to go back to being 14 years old on a bike with my dog and just chasing bass and you see another angler and you're super happy. You know he could take a picture and show 10 people. You know what I mean? But now people take a picture and show 50,000 people.
Katie
Well, you know what's weird too is that when someone does that and they all flock to that one spot. It's not like that one spot is like that fish is going to be sitting right there. I mean, yeah, fish do have like territories. They kind of hang out in the same spot. But I feel like people think that I show up to this exact run and this is the answer to all my problems. Like, the whole river is here and there's more fish like this, like all these other places. And showing up to this one spot is not going to mean that you're going to have the same experience that that person did, you know, three weeks ago.
Nick
half these guys don't realize when they post a photo of that spot, it was from like three months ago. So like, you know, they all flock there and there's like nobody there. And I mean, it's like a kind of like a cat and mouse game how they're playing it. But I just feel like it's just not organic anymore. Like it used to be. And I feel like when you find something organically, not by curiously through a cyberspace, like, it's gonna be more unique. It's going to be more special and you might even realize these things that we're talking about. You know?
Katie
Well, it's weird. I went through, I feel like I went through not to this length, but there was a period of time where I found myself, I'd be out on the water and I'd be thinking about how I was going to create an Instagram post around this. And it started to kind of ruin, and I never had a big following. I was not anywhere near what I would call an influencer. I just like was excited to like show people things, but it was like starting to ruin it for me because I go out and I'm like, why am you know, I didn't catch anything. So now I'm like really bitter about it because I don't have anything to show people and like I didn't actually enjoy myself and like why was I even out there and I came to a point where I decided that I like I don't really post much of myself on social media. I use my Instagram to promote the podcast and stuff and I'll occasionally share a picture, you know, now and then I probably share maybe five pictures of myself throughout the year, But it has like completely fixed that problem for me. Like I enjoy myself so much more now when I'm out because I'm not thinking about, "Oh, I didn't catch a big enough fish to like brag about." Or "By the picture I got of that fish, it was flopping and it's all blurry and like now what? Like I just don't care." And I'll like come back and show my friends and be like, "Oh, look at this fish I caught." And like talk to them about it because that feels like real. Hey, five friends, come over and like look at this picture. And then we all talk about it and they want to hear the story. And it's like, it's a real experience there. But that is completely fixed at feeling for me. And I feel like if more people gave that a try, they might realize that, "Hey, I actually like fishing a lot more when I'm not worried about it the whole time."
Nick
Yeah. I did a whole thing where a lot of my clients, we go out sometimes on a weekly basis in the summer or I have a lot of people just repeatedly. We're trying to chase the bigger fish. And they'd be like, "How big is this one? How big is this one?" you know, like this, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, end of September, I was just like tired. And I kind of was thinking to myself, and I'm like, you know what, for October, I'm not going to measure any fish. I don't care what size they are. I'm like, it can be the biggest fish I've ever seen in my life. We are not measuring it. And I stuck to my guns all all October. And some clients were looking at me cock-eyed. But I'm like, "It doesn't matter." And I'm like, "What was your favorite fish today?" He's like, "Big one." I'm like, "Yeah, okay. But what was your second favorite fish?" "Oh, that one that jumped." I'm like, "Yeah, that's what I'm looking for." It's not about this size. It's not about, "Oh, I'm going to post this and like, all these people are going to ooh and ah. I mean, we all like to catch a huge fish and we all like that photo of ourselves. I'm not going to call myself like sitting in the parking lot every once in a while just like flipping through my phone from like June, just being like drooling over like big browns that we got and having a great time. But like, it doesn't matter. It's what you get out of where we're going. And it's just like the influence of the influencer with the size and the demand. And I'm doing this and I'm catching this big fish and I'm like, I'm the man or I'm the gal or whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, that's not our sport. And it's not what it was intended to be. And a social media platform is changing our sport and we need to recognize that. And we need to bring it back to life. Like we need to, we need to like, it needs a little different vibe.
Katie
Now I have to ask you, like if I came to you and said, what's your favorite fish you've ever caught? Like if you can think of one, I bet it's not the biggest fish you've ever caught. Am I correct in saying that?
Nick
I don't know if I have one.
Katie
If I just like, if you're just like thinking of your favorite fishing memories. It doesn't have to be like your favorite, your favorite one or whatever, like a specific fish, but just like, I'm sure you kind of have a camera roll in your mind of like, oh, that was a good time. That was a good time. And I have to imagine like for me, at least when I'm thinking back on those, I can think of the handful of biggest fish I've caught. And most of them are not what come to mind when someone says what's like one of your favorite fish you've caught. Like I think of this one brook trout I caught that was like really, really colorful and was maybe seven inches long. Like that one always comes to mind for me. And it was just in this like back country stream with one of my friends. And it's like, it would have belonged nowhere on someone's wall. Like it wouldn't fit at all. 'Cause it was so tiny, but it was just like everything else about it was so memorable to me.
Nick
I mean, it's so hard to, I don't know if I have a favorite fish because it's not about the fish for me.
Katie
Well, that's kind of what I'm getting at. It's like fish that you liked because of everything that went around them.
Nick
Yeah, I think one of my favorite days this year, I went out with some guides, some of the younger guides, and we're having a really fun day, and we're bonking them a little bit. And I finally looked at them, I'm like, "This is too easy, boys, switch hands." And they're like, "What?" And I'm like, "We're all fishing left-handed "the rest of the day." And they're like, "Really?" And I'm like, "Yeah, you're gonna feel "like what a client feels." And they're like, "Oh, okay." So we fished left-handed the rest of the day. We had a ball, drank some beers, and we talked about it the rest of the week. We were like, "Oh man, so fun fishing left-handed." And like, you'd miss a fish and you'd have to like kick a shoe into the river or something, I guess, on like weird rules. But it was just like, we were just like kicking it and like, we didn't really care. And like, we caught some big fish and we didn't care. It was just like, it was organic.
Katie
Just like plain old fun.
Nick
It was fun. It was like a kid moment. And like a client told me one time, like, you know, as soon as you start fly fishing, like you stay that age, like, you know, like inside, like, you know, like you might go and like do things throughout the world and blah, blah, blah. But like, if you're, if you start fly fishing at that age, when you go fly fishing, you're always gonna feel like that age. You know what I mean? And I was like, that's brilliant. So like, I think about it like that. I'm like, I just try to think about like being more simple 'cause we have such complex lives and like we're out there to like, kind of let that go. You know, we're out here to catch some fish and like, I guess we have a little bit of a job to do. It's always good to have a motion, but we're out here to let all those things go.
Katie
Yeah. Well, I think that's a great note to end on, bringing a little bit of the realism back to why we started this in the first place, which for most people was just that they tried it and they were like, "This is awesome. I just love it. So I know I know we talked about how you're not super active on social media but if you want to find you online or if they want to book a trip with you where's the best place for them to come find you?
Nick
They can find my social media at @fish_with_fiorini and they can find me there. They can also kind of call the Grand Teton Fly Shop or Wind River Canyon or big wind river and kind of get them to kind of get a hold of me a little bit. I have a little bit different schedule than everyone else so they kind of have to call and check in just because I'm all over the place. So you know it's hard to get in with me. I usually kind of have like a 16 month window where you can get in so it's an advanced booking. So if you want to come and fish with me it's awesome just just get in early and we'll get you some dates and we'll do good and yeah if you end up coming to Jackson hit me up if it's not hot water temperatures we'll go out evening or something so.
Katie
Sounds good I would actually love to experience some warmer temperatures in Jackson because last time I was there was like negative 20 something so it'd be nice to see it in the summer.
Nick
Negative 14 tomorrow.
Katie
Oh not jealous of you there. I'm not gonna get up too early. Well, at least you won't have to worry about the river getting too hot at least.
Nick
Yeah, exactly. Cool off for the fish. So, thanks for having me on here.
Katie
Yeah, thank you for joining us. This is kind of fun and hopefully we'll get to fish together at some point. Maybe Nick can come back from Japan and we can all go out together.
Nick
Yeah, sounds good.
Katie
All right, take it easy. All right, you too. Talk to you later. All right, guys, thanks for listening. Don't forget to head over to the website, fishuntamed.com for all episodes and show notes. And also, please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also, if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me, and I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening, and I will be back in two weeks. Bye, everybody.
Note:
These transcripts were created using AI to help make the podcast more accessible to all listeners, including those who are deaf or hard of hearing, or anyone who prefers to read rather than listen.
While I’ve reviewed each transcript to correct obvious errors, they may not be 100% accurate. In particular, moments with overlapping speech or unclear audio may not be transcribed word-for-word. However, every effort has been made to ensure that the core content and meaning are accurately represented.
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