Ep 59: Rare Fish, Spotburning, and Earning your Catch, with Jon Hill
Jon Hill is a writer, angler, and rodbuilder. He also appeared in episode 58 on building your own fly rod. This is a much more casual conversation that we recorded immediately afterward. In this one, we cracked a few beers and chatted about some of the trips we’ve taken over the years, the allure of rare fish in hard-to-reach areas, the ethics of asking people for their fishing spots, and the reward of working hard to find fish.
Instagram: @yellowfinrods
Website: www.yellowfinrods.com
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing in the backcountry. This is episode 59 with Jon Hill on rare fish, spot burning, and earning your catch. Ah.
Jon
Perfect.
Katie
Perfect. And we're back after the last session.
Jon
Yes.
Katie
So this one should be more relaxed. And just talk about fishing instead of rods. So I guess just a little bit of a background. You and I met over a trip, essentially, that you took. What year did you take that trip?
Jon
Man, I think it was 2011.
Katie
That sounds familiar.
Jon
And I wrote a blog for Orvis. I think that's where you read it, right?
Katie
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't remember what episode it was. I'll have to go back and look. But at some point in the first 15 to 20 episodes, I talked with my friend Allie about our trip to look for golden trout in Colorado. And I'm sure at some point during that we mentioned that the reason that I was inspired to go try to find some is that I came across your article in Orvis where you talked about going to find golden trout. It wasn't just the golden trout. It was also the fact that it was kind of an intriguing situation, I guess. it wasn't just CPW came in last year and dumped a truckload of golden trout and then I want to go catch one. Right. Um, it was that they had been stocked was decades ago, like a long time ago. Um, and you were going to find out if that like remnant population had still, was still lingering up there.
Jon
Yeah. Cause I had heard rumors, you know, first came out to Colorado and started fly fishing. I heard rumors of golden trout and I'm like, what are these golden trout? know and you look it up and it's like oh it's California state fish and blah blah blah and then you come to the point where they had a surplus of eggs in California and gave them to Wyoming and Colorado for a number of years probably a couple decades and the last time they had stocked them was I think 1988 maybe 1990 is the last stocking in Colorado at the time at the time
Katie
Now there's been more.
Jon
Yeah, at the time. And whereas Wyoming, they grow like crazy way back up there. And it takes like 20 miles to get some of these places. But they were still up in Wyoming. So we had heard rumors that there was a couple spots in Colorado that might still have naturally reproducing golden trout. So we started doing our research or trying to research. There's not much out there. And this was 2000. Well, I started probably looking into it in like 2008, maybe 2007. And then we ended up picking a spot that we hoped, you know, had golden trout. And 2011, mid-summer is when we went and tried to find them.
Katie
Now, quick sidebar here. Do you know why they have historically been really successful in Wyoming and just in Colorado they've struggled?
Jon
I'm not sure. I think maybe some of the lakes they put them in in Wyoming were more suitable for naturally reproducing. I'm not 100% sure. I guess that's what kind of confused me. Yeah, throughout the years, you see pictures from people in Wyoming way back in the back country.
Katie
It's like they grow bigger there than they do in California. It's like Wyoming is almost the – I mean, I would rather catch one in California than Wyoming just because it's their native range. But if you're trying to catch like a quote-unquote trophy golden trout, like Wyoming is the place to do it.
Jon
Yeah, because where they are in California, they're super, super small streams. So they do not get very large. But the spots, for whatever reason, in Wyoming, you know, the plant life, the location of the lake, I'm not really sure. They just grow them very large for sure.
Katie
Yeah, I just don't. Like, I haven't been to the Wind Rivers before. It's on my list. But I just wonder what makes it so different than Colorado. Yeah. Apart from maybe the pressure. But, I mean, I feel like a lot of trout do just fine here despite pressure. I mean, people still aren't willing to hike even five miles in, you know, compared to someone who can pull up, drive, drive off the road into a pull off and go fish. Like five miles back is going to be a decent amount of protection from, from pressure.
Jon
So I don't know. So when we went and we actually did find them luckily in 2011 and then, you know, so that had been decades since they were stocked and we've, we caught fish in the six inch range and my buddy caught a 16 inch. So they were definitely naturally reproducing. And we get back and I think like a month or two after we got back, I read an article that California had a surplus of golden trout eggs the first time in decades. And Colorado started stocking them again in 2011 in areas in Colorado, which is great. I mean, it's people go hunt them now, you know, go try to find them now, hunt them down. But when we found them, you know, there was no information. And now there's a ton more information, which is good. You know, it gets people out there.
Katie
And I have to say, like I said before, like, I feel like it could be easier nowadays to find some. But I feel like where you found them and where I subsequently found them in the same spot, that it just felt different.
Jon
Right.
Katie
Because you could tell it was just this lingering population that only a select handful of people are even aware of, let alone have made the effort to try to get to it because it was not a very accessible spot.
Jon
It was a big pain, that's for sure.
Katie
I've heard that they've put them in, I think, Dillon. There's a whole bunch around.
Jon
If you know anything, the Denver area, they stocked them in Chatfield Reservoir. Oh, I heard that. Yeah. Which doesn't seem like a very... No, but a friend of mine actually caught one years after they first stocked it in Chatfield. Really? Caught a golden trout in Chatfield.
Katie
See, that would almost be just as fun in a different kind of way. Like, what are the odds that this thing survived?
Jon
Exactly.
Katie
But again, it's just like if they're not doing well in the Alpine lakes where they've thrived in, for example, Wyoming. Yeah. Or the tiny mountain streams like California. What makes them think they're going to do well in Chatfield Reservoir and downtown Denver? It's so strange.
Jon
But yeah, you're right. it's the uniqueness of it the adventure of it and mostly it was the adventure
Katie
honestly like it was I wouldn't have been as enticed to go if I found out that it was like a three mile hike and on a trail and it went straight to the lake right it's just not the same
Jon
yeah and you know people don't understand like I'll post pictures on you know on the internets and people where is this where is this and they don't understand that there's over 3 000 high alpine lakes in Colorado over 3 000 what are the you know how many of those I don't know but how many of those are stocked with different trout grayling golden tiger trout it's all about the adventure and hunting it down do you really want somebody just to tell you where to go
Katie
well that was kind of a an interesting situation too because when I read your article and I was like this sounds awesome like the adventure sounds cool you had really exciting pictures and you talked about just how grueling it was and stuff and I remember looking at the comment section and it was just people being like where is this and I was like well obviously this is not the way to get the information because he's not going to share but I was like I'm gonna send him an email and see if he's willing to
Jon
you had already done some research too so it wasn't like
Katie
I kind of like looked into it but I figured at least sending you an email would be like I didn't want to just ask where is this right you know so I think I said something along the lines of like I just I read your article like it was really inspiring like I don't know if you're like willing to share this location but If not, I'd love to just connect. I don't remember what it said. I remember you just said, thanks for not just commenting on the article.
Jon
It's fine. People want to give up spots and stuff, but other people don't quite understand. I've been in Colorado for almost 20 years, and it's grown crazy in 20 years. I'm a transplant just like everybody else, so I don't mind people coming here. But everything is getting so crowded. Online, people get mad if you don't say where it is.
Katie
I've noticed that too, as though they're like entitled to it.
Jon
And again, there's over 3,000 lakes in Colorado, high alpine lakes.
Katie
Pick one.
Jon
Do your own adventure. That's the part of the fun for me is that.
Katie
It's the planning.
Jon
Planning and trying to do your research. Just don't ask where this is, but you can, there's plenty of stuff online where they sell, what they stocked, where they stocked it, you know, the Colorado Department of Wildlife and stuff. And do your research. It's more fun that way instead of just being told where to go.
Katie
Well, you didn't tell me. You were like, I'm not going to tell you. But here, I think you said basically like, I don't want to tell you, but I appreciate that you actually reached out personally and like talk to me. So like if you're looking for some cool places to go, like here's some other spots that you might want to check out if you haven't been to them. Right. And I think we talked for a while and I was like, well, I'm still going to be looking for this spot.
Jon
It's more fun, like looking for it yourself.
Katie
Yeah. And so there was a lot of just like internet scouring and I think there were some books involved. I didn't actually have physical books, but I had like access to previews online.
Jon
Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly.
Katie
And so I could kind of like search previews and I eventually got, I found, I don't remember what it was, but I found something that was like a lead. Like I had a name of a place. Right. And I was like, okay, here we go. So, I remember looking it up and I don't even think it was listed on like Google maps. Like that I, it was like maybe context clues and I matched up some like pictures online. And I was like, I think this might be like what I'm looking for, but I don't know. Um, so then we went out kind of, I mean, it was honestly, I don't want to say a wild goose chase as though it was just random. But I told Allie when we started, I was like, we might be hiking 20 miles and not catch a single fish. I just want you to be aware of this before we start because I don't want you to be upset like I'm guaranteeing anything. And so we went up and it was it was kind of interesting because a lot of the time when you're hiking somewhere, you know what is at the end. Yeah. You're like, you know, I've seen trip reports on this. It's listed on Colorado's website and all this stuff. And you might get there and it's winter killed or something. But for the most part, you know what's going to be there. And we were kind of like, I guess, you know, in a couple of days when we arrive, we'll find out if this is what we think it might be. and we got up there and it worked out. We found them. I remember coming back and being like, is this the spot?
Jon
Yeah, yeah. That was after, yeah.
Katie
And it turned out we had gone from different directions, which was kind of fun too, to find out that we had planted differently. We had both looked at the same spot and then assessed what's the best way to get up there. I don't know how yours went. Ours was pretty awful.
Jon
Yeah, ours was brutal as well, for sure, for sure. But that's the point. There's so many different ways to get into anything, you know, and there's so many places out there. And we've hiked to places that were barren, that were dead, you know. You know, 20 years ago there was fish and we hike, you know, eight hours and it's nothing. You know, we took a trip one year and it was up this valley, 13 miles one way. We hiked all the way up there and it was winter killed, you know, and all the fish were dead. And they were supposed to be grayling and they were grayling, but they were dead. So luckily we had a backup plan, but yeah, you hike a whole day to find out that the fish died over the winter because there wasn't enough sunlight getting to the water, you know, to the, the, the plant life in the lake. And so that's kind of the price you pay for doing what we do. Um, but it's the adventure and it's so much fun. I mean, the hiking away from the crowds, you get up above tree line. And I don't know about you, but I feel very small.
Katie
Yeah. You feel like no one's been there. I'm sure people obviously have, but you feel like no one could possibly know where you are right now. You're just in the middle of nowhere.
Jon
Yeah, you don't see many people. Or you might see some hikers maybe doing some 14ers or 13ers.
Katie
But especially if you go off trail. As soon as you leave a trail, it really feels like no one could find you if they wanted to.
Jon
I mean, maybe some miners back in the day were up in that drainage. But, I mean, you look at the Rocky Mountains and the cliffs and just everything. You feel so small and so, I don't know. It's just so cool. The fact that you put one foot in front of another with 50 pounds on your back for eight hours or however long, and you got to this pristine area that's all yours for like two days, three days, however long you want to stay up there.
Katie
Right. And I feel like that's not – most of the trails I do, I just take a trail straight to a lake or something. Right. And most of the time there's fish there because, you know, I've looked it up and it hasn't winter killed or anything. But there is something different that I particularly enjoy when you leave a trail and you find your own way up somewhere. And you know that the odds of you seeing someone up there are next to none. But if you do, you're instantly going to be friends with them. Right. Because you're like anyone I meet up here is going to be awesome.
Jon
Yeah. Because anybody that knows that does things like that, it's just it's a passion that, you know, we share. You know, it's just the joy of being up there. Like some people are way more hardcore than I am. Like they'll hike up and over peaks and like crazy craziness. But there's been so many times where we've gone off trail and it's very difficult. Like you have that pack on with 50 pounds and you're hiking over deadfall or, you know, willows. You're trying to get through willows. And we took a trip last year that was so brutal.
Katie
Do you think this one was harder than the original one?
Jon
The one I took last year?
Katie
The one you took last year, how did that compare to the one we're talking about?
Jon
It was twice as hard. Twice as hard.
Katie
Really? Because I think the original trip for me was probably the hardest hike I've done, except for maybe one of the longer 14ers, like Long's Peak. But that's because I did that all in one day trying to get down before noon, whereas the Golden Trout was spread out over two days. But all things considered, the hike itself, I think it was harder.
Jon
Yeah. Last year, we took a trip to a lake that was very remote, didn't have a trail to it at all. I think the GPS tracked us at like 10 miles one way.
Katie
All off trail or did you get to start on a trail?
Jon
Well, I'm sorry. There was parts of trails throughout this hike. I think back ages ago, there was a trail and it's been so overgrown and it was a burn area. So there was a fire that went through and there was thousands of trees down. and we had to hike up and over thousands of trees, hundreds of trees.
Katie
I've hunted roughly in the area you're talking about and we left because the deadfall was insane.
Jon
It was just too much.
Katie
Yeah.
Jon
I broke two trekking poles that trip. I fell two different occasions. I fell and tried to stop myself and broke two trekking poles, one on the way up and one on the way out. And then there's pictures of my friends that just tripped and fell because you get your foot stuck in between two downed trees. And it was brutal. It was brutal. But, and the fishing was brutal.
Katie
Yeah, I remember you coming back and being like, maybe we saw some monsters.
Jon
Big cutthroat trout. And there was golden trout in the lake. Nobody caught any of the golden trout. There was big cutthroat trout. And it took me three days. It was the last, we were leaving the next morning. And it was like 6.30 at night. I think my other buddies were at camp. And I was like, I'm going to try one more time. And I caught a massive cutthroat, like, at the very end of the trip. But it was three days of rain and sun and then more rain and walking around this and casting and casting and getting denied and denied for three days after this huge hike. And then finally caught one.
Katie
Looking back, do you have any insight on why the fishing was so terrible? Like, why they weren't? Like, do you think that you didn't have a fly to mimic what they were eating? Were they just kind of not really eating much? What was the problem?
Jon
That's the thing. You can hit lakes and you can have like 100 fish a day because these lakes, how many months out of the year are they frozen? You know, they're not eating for They've got a small window of time to Six, eight months of being frozen. And during the summer, they have, you know, three to four or five months where they're eating and there's no ice. So sometimes you go to a lake and you're catching them on anything left and right. Other times you go to a lake and you don't catch anything because there might be scuds, like a certain size and a certain color of a scud that's in that lake that that's all they eat. And so you're trying to throw scuds. You don't have the right size. You're trying to throw, you know, hoppers or this or that. And you just go through your whole fly box and you might get lucky and catch one, you know, after you know 16 hours of hiking round trip you know you'll catch one fish you know but it's so hard to say why I mean this particular lake I think out in the middle I think it was a little deeper and there was a channel that went through the inlet stream to the outlet stream and meandered through the lake and I think out in the middle you know it was probably deeper maybe they just didn't care to come to shore. They just hang out there. It was just very difficult.
Katie
Do you think that you could have been better prepared by taking a wider, like, do you think in general taking a wider selection of flies can kind of solve this problem? Or do you think that there comes a point where there's almost nothing you can do?
Jon
So we should call my buddy Tommy up. Tom brings about five fly boxes, backpacks in five boxes, almost every one of these trips and he goes through every single fly he has. So I don't think we could be more prepared.
Katie
Meanwhile, I'm showing up with like a hundred parachute Adams and I'm like, one of these will work.
Jon
Yeah. Yeah. Like, and I'm a, I'm the guy who will tie two flies on and fish that all day. Like I hate changing flies. So I'll put two on, you know, if they're hitting on hoppers, I'll put a hopper on. But I just think changing depth and changing, like retrieving a streamer, you know, changing up faster, slower, I'll change up depth and I'll change up retrieve more than I'll change a fly.
Katie
Yeah.
Jon
And that seems to work for me.
Katie
I agree with you in that I feel like I associate alpine lakes with either being the most fish I've ever caught in a day or just getting skunked. And I feel like streams and rivers tend to be pretty just like consistent, but I'll never have a day on a river that's as good as a day I've had on a backcountry lake. But I also will generally catch at least a handful of fish on a stream or river when I go out. And I don't know what it is because it doesn't seem to be related to necessarily how pressured they are. Like I've got some friends who went up into Rocky Mountain National Park and I think they were going to like the most remote lake in the park. I think it's called Adams Lake. And I want to say they got there and it's like 12 miles one way. And so in your mind you're like these fish never get fished for they're just going to take anything and I think they like either didn't catch anything or caught like one or two and then you you hike like two miles into some lake and just like slay every fish in there yeah and you're like you'd think that the fish that never get fished for would just eat anything and the fish to get fished for a lot would be really picky and it doesn't seem to follow a pattern
Jon
and it doesn't it doesn't if you figure it out let me know if anybody figures it out let me know because it's very difficult and it also depends on spawning you know because they only have four months to spawn so sometimes they're just chasing each other around you know if they're and they're not interested in anything you throw and you don't know they could spawn you know the whole summer on and off so yeah it's it's very hard to figure out you just gotta come prepared you know have the right clothing have the right shelters have the right everything you know because you never know what kind of weather you're going to get up there and just be prepared you know be prepared to fish all day and not catch anything. Can't wait. Yeah.
Katie
Do you tend to bring waders on these trips?
Jon
I used to hike in a pack. I would bring waders sometimes. Now I have found that I don't need them.
Katie
Because you just get in the water in whatever you're wearing or you try not to really wade?
Jon
Well, but I'll bring some wading shoes. There's some nice wading shoes that I have.
Katie
Oh, there's those kayaking ones that you talked about?
Jon
Yeah, Astral Footwear. They make these kayaking shoes that are great, and they're lightweight, and they're made to be in the water. So I'll bring those up if I'm getting in the water. But a lot of these high alpine lakes, you can fish around shore, and there's a lot of areas where it just drops off and you can't wade in it anyway.
Katie
Yeah.
Jon
So I've found kind of perfecting a roll cast, sidearm cast to get it out farther, using sink in line if you need to, using heavier flies if you need to to get them lower. So I kind of concentrate on that aspect of it more than trying to get out. Because there are lakes that have like a shallow area with a shelf. But still, there's still boulders in there. So trying to wade through that is quite difficult sometimes. So I just don't bother with the waders. Plus it's extra weight. We're already carrying tent and food and I'll hike in some steaks. you know so I already have yes beer whiskey and steaks for the first night so see I tried the beer out and save the weight on whiskey
Katie
well I take whiskey I save the beer but bring the waders but the the thing that I've noticed has helped the most is I ditched the waiting boots because the waiting boots weigh so much more than yeah that's true everything else and I just wear the Tevas and put them over the waders which I mean it's not ideal but it's helped a lot and I like waiting out on those shelves yeah like that's my first instinct is to wait out on the shelf and just cast straight out from there assuming the fish are just going to be cruising that that shelf line yeah I mean you get to some lakes that the shelf is the whole way around it like you can't true and the fish might be on the shelf too but I feel like I can usually find out if there is a shelf on like google earth before I go
Jon
true yeah I'm kind of playing around it's like okay no shelf there I probably won't take waders yeah the internet is definitely helpful for that
Katie
yeah yeah. You can usually see it pretty easily. I like taking a belly boat too, but that's not really an option if you're trying to stay overnight. Right. I don't know if you are aware of any belly boats that you can. Because I think I've heard of some people who are trying to make lightweight ones, really lightweight ones.
Jon
My buddy Sean has one, and I can't remember the company that makes it. But it's smaller, but it's still a pain. You still have to pack in flippers. You've got to pack in the thing to blow it up. Oh, I just blow it up by mouth. Yeah. And, you know, he hiked in, you know, a pump and everything. You know, so like I would say the first handful of years that I backpacked, I did, you know, every other trip I'd bring in waders. And then I just figured out you walk around that lake, you're going to find something else that you don't need to wade. Yeah, for the most part. For me, it's like I would I just don't I ditch the weight and, you know, just try to walk around more to find them. You know, if the wind picks up, usually the fish are at the tail end of the lake. if the wind's pushing down the lake, because it'll kick up all, you know, all the oxygen, it'll kick up all the bugs, you know, so when it's windy, you go to that side, you know, that side of the lake, you know, so there's some things you pick up that, you know, I just don't, I just tend not to do the waders anymore. And in fact, I might wear my waders once or maybe twice a year, like it'll be March and I'll wet wade a river, February, it'll, I'll wet wade, like, I'll wet wade whenever I can, like, just forget the waders, you know.
Katie
I feel like people have kind of adopted waders as like the unofficial uniform of fly fishing. If you're fly fishing, you should be wearing waders. I'm like, if you're sweating in them, you should probably consider just taking them off.
Jon
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you get your feet. I grew up in the country outside of Buffalo, New York, and we had a creek running through our backyard. So I was always in that creek. I never, I didn't fish back then, but, you know, we'd have our creek shoes and put our creek shoes on and then just go wandering in the water and just in the woods. So, yeah, getting my feet wet comes natural.
Katie
It feels better.
Jon
Yeah.
Katie
To fish just in your boots.
Jon
Yeah, yeah. You feel it more. And then the sun gets warm, so you get out. If your feet are cold, let them warm up a little bit, and then go back in.
Katie
I recently got the – we talked about this when we fished the other day, but those neoprene, just the booty part.
Jon
Oh, yeah, the boot, yeah.
Katie
And, oh, man, that was such a game changer. Yeah. Because I was like – well, it's just there. You get the gravel guard, so it keeps the stuff from going on your boot, which I don't really care about that much. So I would generally just wear like sand, like the Tevas. And my feet would freeze. And I got those because they're not that expensive. So I was like, I'll get the little booties that you put in your boots. And it turned my world around because the water that goes in there like warms up with your feet the same way if you've got like leaky waders. You're only cold for a minute or two before you warm up. And I can't believe I didn't buy a pair of those sooner. Because now it's like I feel like the temperature range that I can wet weight in now has expanded like three times over.
Jon
Yep. Those are definitely a good call. Like I just use like the smart wool socks and they seem to work for me, you know, fine too. But those that you have are, yeah, they're great.
Katie
Something other than bare skin in the water because that, it just drains your, your temperature so fast.
Jon
And it makes it miserable. You start not being able to feel your toes, you know, I mean, I've been there for sure.
Katie
I've definitely had times in belly boats where I had like, I distinctly remember I was fishing for tiger trout in a belly boat and I had a leaky waiter leg and the waders were just filling up as I was sitting in the boat. But I was like, I'm not going to go the whole way over the shore and empty these out. But after a while, I was like, I feel like I'm sitting in a bathtub..
Jon
Right. I knowIt gets just warm. You're like, whatever.
Katie
But without those, I would have been freezing. Oh, you're going to crack another one? Yeah. Oh, you got to crack it by the...
Jon
Another beer. Oh, okay. Here you go.
Katie
Ah, there you go.
Jon
Another beer. More stories.
Katie
But yeah, I remember you saying that that second trip you took was kind of dismal. But that guy that we kind of like mutually know from online, you said had a great, great trip there and caught like a bunch of big oldens.
Jon
My buddy Patrick has been there like three times.
Katie
Shout out to Patrick, who we both know virtually. Yes, yes.
Jon
Actually, so this is crazy. I took a trip a few years ago and Patrick had emailed me a couple times here and there through Reddit, the fly fishing subreddit. And I took a trip a few years ago. we camped at one lake and hiked to two different lakes.
Katie
And you say we, you don't mean you and Patrick. No, no.
Jon
You and your group or whatever. Me and my buddy Tom and Shawn. We went to this lake and we were fishing and started talking to the guy. And he was like, Jon? And it was Patrick. It was crazy. Like we never talked about this lake or meeting up or anything. And just, you know, eight miles in, you just meet a guy, you know. So, yeah, shout out to Patrick for hitting that lake up last year, the most difficult hike in the world.
Katie
Yeah, and I didn't realize, I mean, I don't know him, but he had messaged me back when I shared that golden trout, I don't know, like a blog post or whatever. I brought him up the other day at the brewery, and you're like, oh, Patrick.
Jon
Yeah, you're like, yep, same guy. I mean, there's a lot of us that interact with each other and tell stories, and we'll give hints to where things are, help each other figure out where things are. It's kind of like a little community.
Katie
you're a lot more inclined to give someone information when you know, a, they're not going to share it. And B, they might share some information with you. Like, like you said, it's like the whole fun is finding your own spots and researching that and stuff. But you know, I'm also, I'm also much more welcoming to somebody who I can tell is in the same mindset. And it's like, Hey, I've got some information. You've got some information. We're obviously not going to just like blast out to the world in a forum, which is just like the most egregious of the, yeah.
Jon
I mean, I don't want to be a jerk about it, but it's like, I'm not going to tell you that I put, working, not only physical work, you know, I put time and energy in trying to find these places, do the research, calling, you know, the Colorado Division of Wildlife and talking to a biologist and, and, you know, him telling me, you know, well, we stocked this like eight years ago. I don't know, you know, go look, yeah, go look and tell me what you find. And it's all about the adventure. So just somebody wanting me to come out with it. I don't, I don't know. But some people find that as being a jerk online.
Katie
I've noticed that too, that people get offended and act like they're entitled to it. I don't mean to say that sounding like a jerk either, but I mean, it's not, no one's entitled to anything. I mean, I emailed you and was like, I don't know if you're going to want to share this, but I just wanted to check out. And you're like, I don't really want to. And it's not like I was like, well, you just suck. I was like, okay, understandable. Let's like keep talking because like I obviously share similar interests. But it is weird to me when people get extremely offended though because a place exists and someone knows about it that everyone's entitled to know about it just by being told and not by looking it up yeah and I don't know why that sentiment exists and you know I also don't like people who like dangle carrots down in front of people just to be like na na na na na like yeah but yeah I don't know I don't know why that culture exists and it's there's like I don't know a weird interaction between the people who find things and are like trying to entice other people to ask just so they can shut them down and also the people who reach out and then are shocked when they're not told the location
Jon
I just want a general location bro yeah it's like okay this state yeah Colorado where where is this Colorado that's what I always say but and it's like I'll post pictures and if you can figure out where I'm at from the picture I feel like that's that you deserve yeah because I've had plenty of people be like holy cow I know that peak or I know this and that's great because if you know that already you already know it appreciate it and you know you'll appreciate it more you know you know that's fine people want to blur out backgrounds and stuff you know I get it I guess but if you can figure out you know where I'm at from a picture more power to you I think that's great
Katie
well and also if you are going to the lengths to look at pictures to find something you probably would have found it eventually anyway just from scouring like you're obviously dedicated to finding right and that's I mean the whole thing is scouring the internet. That's basically what this involves.
Jon
Well, how many things are just spoon-fed to us these days? How many things do you have to actually go out and try to find, make an adventure of it? I keep, and I've said it already, but 3,000 lakes in Colorado. No, not all of them are going to have fish, but why not find out?
Katie
But that's what's exciting. Yeah. Because winter kill makes the other ones sweeter. If you go up to one lake and it's winter killed, that just makes the next lake you go to that's not winter killed even better. Well, thank God. I found one that has fish in it.
Jon
And not everybody has the same mindset, but for me, I just love just not knowing. You don't know. And then you don't know what the weather is going to be like. You don't know.
Katie
You don't know how hard it's actually going to be.
Jon
How hard it's going to be. You don't know what to bring. If you brought enough clothes, is everything going to – I took a trip a few years ago, and my boots got wet, and it was damp. And we had a small fire every night. I couldn't draw my boots. My feet were wrecked for like four days. I could not get, you know, I could not get them to dry and it was miserable. And the fishing was, you know, not good at all. You know, I caught maybe three or four fish in like four or five days, but it was a great trip. I got a good story. You know what I mean? It was so difficult. I'll never go back again. Uh, but I'm glad I did it. It was off trail and it was the most beautiful location, you know, you could find and it was miserable and horrible, but I loved it, you know, because we did it and we tried it and well now we know
Katie
the other thing about the photos too is you know you'll see people not I haven't had this happen to me but I've seen people in other comment sections on other photos being like I know where this is and it's like first of all cool yeah that's great but also if you know where it is I'm not really worried about you going there because you already know where it is like you're already aware of this place that's that's why I find it funny when people blur out backgrounds because it'll be like blurring out a bridge on a river that everyone fishes and it's like oh I know that bridge and it's like cool like you already you obviously have already fished here then yeah so the odds of you going back there are already very high just because you know someone caught a big fish there like you probably already knew there were big fish there if yeah you know if you've been there so I again I agree I don't really view the photo scouring is that big an issue like if you're and that's only half the the difficulty is knowing where it is you can know where something is and it might be 40 miles back and like congrats if you get back there yeah and I've had people reach out after that that first golden trout trip and they're like I think I figured out where this is and they'll send a pin I'm like you're right but like they're like I'm from Connecticut I'm gonna try to come out yeah yeah good luck good luck and I don't mean that in like a you know no way it's just the odds of of someone traveling out here from sea level and just randomly going up there are it's hard
Jon
yeah I mean it's hard for someone who hikes a lot and lives up here so you hike way more than I do and and way better shape but we can still do it because we're you I think we're our bodies are used to doing it every year
Katie
yeah I mean and it's it's just gonna be again I don't I don't mean it in like a derogatory way but it's just knowing where it is is only a quarter of the struggle of actually doing it yeah and I think a lot of people forget about that like just there's a lot of places that I know about that I'd like to go to someday and I look at it and I'm like that's a pipe dream right now I'm not actually going to go there.
Jon
So I mean, and the people in Alaska can say the same thing. People in, you know, Wyoming, Utah, you know, there's there's Rocky Mountains and all these other mountains. And there's a ton of places, tons of places. And there's people way better and way more extreme than I am at backpacking or more miles than me. You know, so I stick with what I can do and what I feel comfortable with. and, you know, I don't need a hard hat to hike over, you know, some, some needle ridge or whatever, you know, but it's just the adventure and just getting away, you know, I just love it.
Katie
Yeah. It's awesome. Did I tell you about the guy who, he like emailed me and what he wanted to know, I don't know if it was that spot. I think it was maybe that spot, but wanted to know where it was. And I, you know, we went back and forth and I was like, sorry, but, I was still trying to help him out you know I think I pointed him in the direction of some resources where he could maybe find another spot to catch him or something like that and I tried to give him basically a diving off board to figure it out on his own and he got really upset really and like did the email equivalent of like storming off and I was like that's fine and then he he replies and he's like so I just bought this piece of private property and it's got this lake and there's 30 inch brown trout in there and anyway so I just want to let you know and he didn't he didn't follow it up with anything but I was like I is that a bribe yeah I think that you're what you're getting at is me being like oh no if I if I don't tell him maybe I won't get to access his private right but I didn't like I didn't take the bait because I was like oh this is fun yeah so I just responded with something like that's great I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun yeah and then he stormed off again like the email equivalent of storming off. Um, and he came back multiple times, essentially like demanding information. And I was like, dude, you're getting farther and farther away from me giving you any help for anything, you know, like start, start a reasonable conversation with me. And even if I'm not going to get like, kind of like my first interaction with you, like, even if you're not going to tell me where something is, like we can just have a conversation and become friends and then maybe we'll be open to sharing information with each other and going fishing together and stuff like that like you just think about you're talking to a stranger who has no reason to want to share anything with you yeah at all yeah you're just a random person on the internet think about how you're interacting with somebody and whether they have any reason to to give you the time of day
Jon
right so like when I started out I had a couple friends that knew of a couple spots you know that they heard from somebody else that they heard from And so we would go there and I started getting on a fly fishing forum, you know, and start meeting like minded people, you know, and meeting up, telling stories, trying to like figure out where things are. It's just, again, it's like organically growing friendships over the things that we love to do. It's not just fly fishing. It's the backpacking and fly fishing is like a whole new.
Katie
There's a different group.
Jon
It's a different genre, you know. And I don't care how old you are, what shape you are. You start off doing it. You can do it. And now over the years, you just grow friendships and meet people and talk to people. And you just share stories. And that's how I kind of now find out of different places to go of sharing stories and doing that and still doing my own research. And like I said, half the fun is finding out yourself. know it's no fun just handed here's the spot here you go what fun is that you know for some people that's what they want
Katie
yeah they just want the the fish at the end yeah yeah but I feel like the fun of a like the most fun is going somewhere not knowing there's like massive fish there yeah and you get there and you're like oh my god yeah fish look at it and like that happened last year yeah it's just so exciting when you show up and you're like they're here you know how did you find so not to completely switch gears, but you mentioned it on the last one we did, the yellowfin. Like, how did you come across the concept of a yellowfin and your kind of goal of maybe, you know, going out and seeing if there could be some sort of remnant population out there, which even if there's not, I mean, again, it's the fun of seeing. Like searching. Yeah.
Jon
So I've always been, speaking of the golden trout, of like, you know, thought to be extinct or rare type of fish. So doing that search, I came across the story of the greenback cutthroat trout. And I wrote an article for actually a magazine that's no longer around, unfortunately. But my first article was about a trip to Rocky Mountain National Park and catching the greenback cutthroat trout or what they thought was the greenback cutthroat trout. So that article was about the genetics and how they're not really sure, but they think it's the purest strain. And this is before the DNA came out. So now they're DNA testing and figured out the greenback cutthroat trout they thought was the greenback is not the pure greenback. They did find the pure greenback and are trying to reintroduce it to areas in Colorado. But in some of those articles, they talked about a yellowfin cutthroat trout. I'm like, I never heard of the yellowfin cutthroat. So I started researching the yellowfin, which was only in this area of Twin Lakes in Colorado. And that's the only place they were found. And they tried to have them in hatcheries and try to stock them for a good 20, 30 years from like 1890 to 1919, I believe. They stocked them, and they just were not taking, and they were not doing well in the hatcheries. And they stopped, and they're thought to be extinct. They're extinct out of Twin Lakes because the government came and stocked rainbow trout because they thought that was a better fighting fish. And to bring more revenue to the state, they stocked Twin Lakes with rainbows, and it killed off both the greenback and the yellowfin cutthroat population, unfortunately. So I actually have done a lot of research. I have the stocking for the yellowfin cutthroat trout in the early 1900s and know where they might still be. I have yet to go. I need to go. But there's a couple spots that are remote enough, that are smaller streams enough.
Katie
There could be a couple in there that no one's bothered to find.
Jon
Yeah, they could still be naturally reproducing, you know, for sure. They've been finding other varieties of cutthroats that they thought were extinct. They've been finding them every few years.
Katie
I think it was just a – I don't know how much these things branch out. And, you know, there's like cutthroats of species and there's subspecies.
Jon
And I think it's just like strains of the subspecies.
Katie
And they found that strain a couple years ago of I think the Colorado River cut. It was some special strain of the Colorado Rivercut throat that was just found in a specific drainage, I think, that they thought was extinct and wasn't. I don't know where they really draw the line between strains. I don't think any average person would know any difference if they just caught one. I can't tell the subspecies apart when I catch them unless I just know what's supposed to be there. That's true. Do you think you would know a yellow fin if you saw one?
Jon
I think so. There's like an illustration of one, and then there's a black and white picture of one dissected that they have at the Smithsonian. So they still have one with DNA and everything. They have its DNA.
Katie
So would you keep it? If you caught one and you were like, man, this seems like it's promising, but I need the DNA test, so I'm going to smack it.
Jon
So what I'm going to do before I take a trip is contact somebody and say, what do you need for DNA testing? A fin clip or something. Can you just clip the Oedipus fin or whatever? You know what I mean?
Katie
I think it's an Adipose fin, not an Oedipus fin.
Jon
Sorry, Oedipus. I think that's so different. Cut that out. Cut that out. I'll leave it in. I think that you can cut that and just take that. So, yeah, I have to figure that out. But, you know, it's possible. I mean, they're finding these things, you know, here and there. So you never know. But it's the adventure. And this adventure might take, you know, four or five days of hiking up a small little stream and find nothing.
Katie
I mean, ideally, at least you'd catch something like catch other fish.
Jon
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hopefully there's a cutthroat, a different cutthroat in there, you know. But, yeah, so we'll see. I don't know.
Katie
What a shame that rainbows are what was considered the preferable. Nothing against rainbows. I love rainbows.
Jon
We caught some great rainbows last weekend.
Katie
I was actually telling you how much I like catching rainbows because I always catch browns. And a good wild rainbow with a nice pink, like a deep pink, not an iridescent thing, but a deep pigmented pink. I love a good pink rainbow. Man, what a shame to think that these species were just considered a lesser species because they don't fight as hard as some random stalker rainbow that they want to throw in there. I know.
Jon
Well, that could be a whole other podcast. You can get somebody on from the Department of Wildlife, why they make the decision. I mean, back then they didn't know what was going to happen.
Katie
Yeah.
Jon
So you can't blame them. But now we know to try not to introduce non-native species into an area. We know that now, but back then they didn't know. And it's a shame. It's horrible. But yeah, it happens.
Katie
And also makes you wonder how many of those, I mean, these yellowfins were only in that one specific area. How many other species were in some very unique, like one or two lakes connected by, you know, a stream and probably in the connecting streams that disappeared before anyone ever really bothered to, like, I might just be making this up, but you'd think that, I think in my mind, when I think of a species, I think of it like a wide range. You know, the species is found from this state to this state, from Canada to Mexico. Yeah. Yeah. And then you hear about these species that exist in just a single waterway.
Jon
Yeah.
Katie
And you're like, that's crazy that they survived for that long.
Jon
Yeah, the Ice Age, you know, they were put there during the Ice Age when that was receding. And I think it was the 1910 World's Fair that was in Paris, France. The guy who found the yellowfin in Twin Lakes, I think he sent eggs to France for the World's Fair. It was that big of a deal that it was like, yeah, I even emailed some hatcheries in France. Bonjour. Yes. I even, you know, so yeah, I've done a lot of research. So, you know, who knows? They might not be out there. They might be out there, but it's fun to.
Katie
This is another one of those things where even if you were to go and not find them, just the adventure of looking for them and researching them, like that's most of the fun. Finding one would be a nice icing on the cake. But again, it wouldn't be as fun as just being told there's some over here. Go catch them.
Jon
Right. Exactly. That's the fun part.
Katie
But, man, yeah, those are so cool, though, those little isolated species. And to be their own, I guess not subspecies, they must have been there isolated for so long. That's just, it's just cool to think about.
Jon
Yeah, and they could still be there. I mean, you know, we found golden trout that were there for, you know, 30, 40 years on their own.
Katie
Happens.
Jon
Yeah, there's no reason to think that the yellowfin's still not out there somewhere, you know, in one of these areas that they stocked.
Katie
And, I mean, for all we know, someone could have caught one. You wouldn't even think to – Wouldn't even know. When I catch a cutthroat, my first thought isn't what kind of cutthroat is this. It's like, oh, cutthroat. That's a cutthroat. Throw it back.
Jon
I know people ask me, like, if I post pictures, what kind of cutthroat is that? I'm like, I have no idea. I don't know. Colorado River. I'll look up what's supposed to be here. Rio Grande. You know, I don't know. Likely a hybrid of a whole bunch of them. Yeah, hybrid. Yeah, I don't know. But, yeah, the yellowfin is definitely unique. It has less spots, smaller spots. So hopefully if I do catch one, I'll be able to tell if it is or not.
Katie
Yeah, I assume it would have a bit of a yellow fin.
Jon
Yeah, maybe.
Katie
There was something I was going to say. Oh, the greenback. I don't know how many people I told over the years that they were catching greenbacks because I used to guide in Rocky Mountain. Oh, yeah, that's right. You're part of the problem. I'm part of the problem, and that problem is still going on.
Jon
Because, again, I mentioned the subreddit, fly fishing subreddit. There's so many posts on there that were like, I caught a greenback at Rocky Mountain National Park. I mean, it's in all their literature.
Katie
Yeah, I mean, I don't really blame the anglers. No, no, no, for sure. And that's why I was spreading that info, and I know that the guides that I worked with are still spreading that info. And honestly, I don't know how much it really matters because most of the people going up there are going to go fish there once, have a great time, come back and tell their family.
Jon
In a beautiful area. It's gorgeous.
Katie
Tell their families how much fun they had and be able to spat off that they caught a greenback. it's not harming anything no so so I don't really blame anyone for being like good for you you kind of greenback and like you said the national park advertises that like if you look in their brochure it says you know greenback cutthroat state fish to Colorado barbless flies and lures only got to release them to the water so why would you think that it's not that yeah I think I even told you that back in the day because you were like I haven't caught one yet and I was like well I did say that they're not pure but I thought they were mostly pure I think it's maybe even come out since then and they're not even mostly pure like they might have a small percentage of greenback yeah and I think I said something like well if it's 99%
Jon
they're beautiful they definitely look different than other cutthroats I've caught I think. and those lakes up there
Katie
oh the ones in rocky mountain
Jon
yeah
Katie
and yeah they get very blood red yeah during spawning and I've caught some other colored up cutthroats but I feel like there's something different those ones almost look like they're just covered in blood
Jon
yeah yeah because I took a trip to arrowhead lake in rocky mountain national park that's yeah I've seen some
Katie
oh I've been there but the ones we caught weren't super red but I've seen some pictures
Jon
yeah and they're just beautiful they're just gorgeous in there so yeah anybody catching those but it's like you know people will get on them for that's not a greenback and I'm not trying to be elitist or anything I'm just trying to inform people
Katie
yeah I mean I feel the same way I'm like I'd like to inform you but I don't want to come across as being an asshole I'm not trying to ruin your day I'm trying to let you know that if it's important to you to catch a pure greenback like this isn't it but you know you can go you can go catch one elsewhere
Jon
yeah yeah exactly and yeah and it's they're still beautiful in a beautiful area so it doesn't really matter it's just
Katie
yeah again you don't really know I mean we go you'll catch cutthroats and my first thought isn't what is this? Cause I'm not probably not even going to figure it out, but you can look it up a lot of the time. Like I caught my, what I assume was my first pure greenback, just again, based solely on location. Yeah. You just kind of have to trust that CPW said they eradicated everything else and then stocked pure ones. And so, but they were also saying that about Rocky mountain years ago. So yeah.
Jon
And 10 years from now, there's gonna be a different DNA test and it'd be like, Nope, these aren't it either.
Katie
You are not the father.
Jon
Yeah, exactly.
Katie
But yeah, I think they've, I think they've kind of confirmed it now. I think so, yeah. So that's cool because it sounds like – I thought there was only one location that they were, and then they added them to what I thought was one or two other locations, which I went to and caught one. But the sign there, I was surprised. They had like a billboard at the front that explained –
Jon
Oh, really?
Katie
Yeah, we stocked the pure greenbacks in here, state fish, whatever. And they were like, and here's like seven other places we stocked them. And I was like, oh, I had no idea that there were this many spots because I've heard the same two spots basically since So that was interesting. It sounds promising.
Jon
Yeah, hopefully it sticks. Hopefully they don't turn out to be like the elephant. And, you know, hopefully they do better in hatcheries. Hopefully they do better in these areas they stocked.
Katie
It sounds like it's still kind of volatile. Like the first time they did it, they all died. And they tried it again. And I think that was maybe four years ago now. And maybe four years ago was the one that failed. But I think they've survived one to two winters now. So I think they're assuming that, yeah, the fish, they've made it two winters now. they're going to actually make it.
Jon
Hopefully.
Katie
So that'd be fun though, if we can get some of those native fish back.
Jon
I mean, you know, there's a thing to be said for these hatcheries. I mean, some people, you know, there's two sides to having hatcheries. Not going to get into that either. But, you know, for something like this, how else are you going to bring back a thought to be extinct fish?
Katie
Well, that's a completely different type of hatchery. Not type of hatchery, but people, I feel like when they yell about hatcheries, I don't really like stalker rainbows being dumped into places either. Right. But I fully support hatcheries going out and basically saving a species from extinction that was here all along.
Jon
I think the one you were talking about from a few years ago, wasn't there a fire that was going through that area?
Katie
Yeah, Zimmerman Lake.
Jon
No, different one. Not the greenback cutthroat, but the other cutthroat you were talking about.
Katie
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jon
There was a fire coming into that area. And they went like saved them. People hiked in as fast as they could and backpacked as many of them as they could out because the fire was coming through that area.
Katie
Yeah.
Jon
Because they knew that was like a rare strain of cutthroat. You know what I mean? So, yeah. Human intervention, sometimes good.
Katie
Yeah. I think – I mean I hear the most negativity about hatcheries in terms of like steelhead. Yeah. Where it's like these hatchery fish are polluting the wild genetics. But it's like in this case, we don't really have wild genetics.
Jon
Right. Yeah.
Katie
That's gone. So the only hope left is putting hatchery fish in. And I just feel like there's a distinct difference between we made all these hatchery fish so anglers can go out and catch them and put a steelhead in their net versus we saved the species from going extinct. Like those are just two completely different sides of the coin.
Jon
And the places that we love to go hike, these outpound lakes, there wasn't fish in there before.
Katie
Which is so weird. There wasn't. Because it seems like so natural that they're full of fish. Then you realize it's not very natural.
Jon
But you know why most of these areas have fish in there? It's because of the miners.
Katie
Oh, I didn't know that.
Jon
These miners would stay up there because, you know, how many times have we hiked up areas and you see like an old busted up cabin, you know, from the 1800s. Yeah, right. So these miners were living up there. So they would hike in these fish, put them in the lakes that were near their mining areas. So they would have.
Katie
It makes a ton of sense.
Jon
So they would have, you know, food, you know, to eat. And this year, next year, the year after, however many years they're up there mining, that that lake that they're camped at would have fish. A personal fish farm. Yeah. So they hike them up there. So we're kind of keeping that tradition on, I guess, by flying fish in and dropping them from a plane.
Katie
It's so weird to think about because they seem so natural. Yeah. Like you would just assume, and a lot of the streams had fish. So you're like, well, the streams usually connect up to a lake at some point. And you'd think that they'd all just be populated. It almost ruins it. I don't like to think about the fact that these lakes used to be barren because I'm like, yeah, these stocker fish.
Jon
Right, I know.
Katie
But I am much more inclined to not look down on a stocker fish if it has held over. Yeah. You know, I don't want to catch a fish that got off the truck yesterday. Right. But I don't mind catching a stocker fish. Like that big rainbow that I caught a couple weeks ago when we fished. Yeah. I'm sure that was a stocked fish. Yeah. But it's been there a long time.
Jon
It came down or up from wherever it was stocked, you know.
Katie
But it wasn't stocked last week at the length of like 20-something inches. Like it was probably stocked smaller and has made it.
Jon
It's true, and there's a lot of talk about native, wild, hatchery, stocked. It all comes down to we just love going out to fish, really. At the end of the day, I'm never going to turn down a fish. I don't care what it is. Exactly. If it's willing to take my fly, I'm going to reel it in. It's so much fun, especially on a fly rod you made yourself.
Katie
Bringing it all back around. I don't really have anything else. Do you have anything else that you want to talk about? We kind of just BS, but this is super fun.
Jon
Yeah, because, you know, just talked about what we enjoy doing in our spare time.
Katie
Do you have any plans coming up, like any end of summer trips or fall trips?
Jon
We took a trip a few weeks ago. I was like between the three of us, we caught hundreds of fish in like three days. So that was great. We might take another one the weekend after Labor Day. But yeah, nothing else. Got to start hitting those rivers because I think it's supposed to snow this weekend up in the high country. Really? It's going to be the earliest snowfall ever in Colorado. I like the sound of that. Yeah. So I think it might start snowing up there already. So we've got to start hitting the rivers and creeks again.
Katie
Yeah, I have been meaning to get out after work and just fish clear creek, but I'm like, that's like 90 every day. I know. By the time I get out there, the water's too warm.
Jon
Well, that's another reason why we're hiking or going to the canyons or whatever is because it's just been way too hot this year. Yeah. There's like the Colorado, the Yampa, their closing sections.
Katie
I think we're not in as bad a boat as some other states. I've heard Montana and stuff is just like crazy with closures and stuff. And we've had some, but it's like this stretch of this river. Yeah. For the most part, I think we have enough access to high elevations that it's not a huge issue.
Jon
So we'll see. But no, nothing big. Hopefully next year we'll have a couple more than I did this year.
Katie
I kind of feel the same way. Like I didn't – I haven't hit an alpine lake yet this year. I told you. I know.
Jon
I'm so disappointed.
Katie
I've done a lot of –
Jon
I can't even talk to you anymore.
Katie
I've got a lot more rivers and stuff.
Jon
Cut. We're done.
Katie
I checked my greenback off. That was my goal this summer, and I did that.
Jon
I still got to get up there. You got to take me up there.
Katie
You got to show me. I'm going to hit a creek this weekend that I told you about a couple weeks ago that I was just at. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. This weekend? Yeah. So I haven't been hitting the lakes, which feels like I'm kind of missing out on something. but I've done quite a bit more river fishing than I normally do. Which has been kind of fun. Because I, well, no, I wouldn't say I'm more confident on lakes than I am rivers because lakes are hit or miss like we talked about. But I feel like most of the lakes that I go to, it's pretty easy to dial it in pretty quickly and catch fish. And it's been nice to practice something different.
Jon
So it's been good. Well, go to your Instagram and see what you caught last week. That'll hold me over for a while. I think you do pretty good in the rivers as well.
Katie
I need a good netter. I need a new net.
Jon
Oh, yeah. She lost her net. And I did net it. Yeah. Yeah. Check out Instagram. All right.
Katie
Well, why don't you plug yourself again? Because in case people aren't interested in rod building, but might want to buy a rod or just find you on Instagram or whatever.
Jon
Yeah. So I'm on Instagram at yellowfinrods or my website yellowfinrods.com. So I'll post like the pictures of trips I take on Instagram and the rods that I build on Instagram. And yeah, if you have any questions or want to go for a hike, hit me up. Sounds good.
Katie
Yep. Well, thanks for coming on.
Jon
Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you.
Katie
All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to head over to the website, fishuntamed.com for all episodes and show notes. And also please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also, if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me, and I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening, and I will be back in two weeks. Bye, everybody.
Note:
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While I’ve reviewed each transcript to correct obvious errors, they may not be 100% accurate. In particular, moments with overlapping speech or unclear audio may not be transcribed word-for-word. However, every effort has been made to ensure that the core content and meaning are accurately represented.
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