Ep 191: A Fishing Roadtrip across the U.S., with Ryan Burch
Ryan Burch is the creator of Tales of the 48, a self-designed project to catch a fish on the fly in every state in the lower 48 in a single year. He first appeared in episode 174 to talk about the first half of his trip, and now he is back to talk about the second half, recap the project as a whole, share stories from along the way, and talk about what’s next, including a documentary about the adventure.
Instagram: @talesofthe48
Website: Talesofthe48.com
Email: talesofthe48@gmail.com
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Katie
You're listening to the fish untamed podcast your home for fly fishing the backcountry. this is episode 191 with Ryan Burch on a fishing road trip across the US. well this is your second time on the show the first time was we were just talking about this maybe a couple months ago recorded probably half a year or more ago though and you're back to talk about how your trip went. So I want to have you start by just giving a quick recap if someone didn't hear the first half of our conversation and kind of introduce the project that you came up with. And we're going to kind of see where it went from that last point. But just give me a 30,000 foot view of what the project was just to fill people in if they weren't there for the first episode. Absolutely.
Ryan
So my name is Ryan Burch, and I'm working on a travel project and what will become a documentary called Tales of the 48 about a bucket list, year-long bucket list road trip to fly fish all of the lower 48 states in a calendar year, and specifically to catch a fish in each and every one of those lower 48 states. And I left home just over a year ago, August 7th, 2025. And I fished my way. I'm from Vermont. I fished my way west through the Rockies, through the Pacific Northwest, all fall into the winter of 2025. I think that's, I think I was in Idaho, if I remember correctly.
Katie
That sounds about right. Kind of northern Rockies.
Ryan
Yep. There was snow around. I remember fishing was super tough.
Katie
You were in a camper with your dog.
Ryan
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so since then, I was home for about a month this winter. I think I fished. I rounded out that first leg of the trip in the fall. I fished 20 consecutive days where the highs were in the teens. It was about as grueling as it can get. Lots of stomping through ice to find open water. But I finished the first 24. I fished Pyramid Lake in Nevada as my big sendoff for the first half. I was home for about a month. And then over the past five and a half months, I drove back out to the southwest and from Arizona, worked my way back another 16,000 miles or so all the way back to home in Vermont and completed the second 24 states to make 48 total.
Katie
And remind me why you took the month off. Was it just a logistical thing? Were you just needing a bit of a break from that lifestyle?
Ryan
A little bit of both. I, as I said, I was pretty sick of being cold, to say the least. And it was just so much time alone and, you know, really far from home that both to kind of cure that, catch up on showers, sleep in a real bed, and to just wait for things to warm a little bit so that hatches would start, you know, being a thing again and to kind of catch the striper migration in the summer on the East Coast. It made sense to pause a little bit, but largely it was for my mental health and to heal my body after some pretty rigorous fishing. and filming and adventuring all fall.
Katie
Yeah, I have to imagine that apart from guides, there's not many people who have spent that many days in a row fishing in that kind of weather.
Ryan
Yeah, I would say so. I describe it as glorious and grueling. There were days that were beyond brutal, that there was way, way more pain than joy. But I'm a big believer in the value of type two fun. And I think that's good for the soul. But yeah, I worked for it more often than not. I'll say that.
Katie
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the type two fun because I was going to say it's one of those things that when you do it, you look back and you're always really glad you did it. But in the moment, it's really easy to back out of a situation like that.
Ryan
A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And my closest kind of support system would be the first to tell you that I was like on the verge of that many times. There are lots of calls to my younger sister's photographer and videographer and been a huge help, kind of my right hand man for this whole thing. And she was often the first to get the 2am call of like, dude, everything is broken. I can't find fish. It's eight degrees outside. Like, I don't know about this and just stick with it, man. Like tomorrow's a new day. And I, yeah, I feel an immense amount of pride and just like joy that I stuck with it. And there's so much value in being uncomfortable and persevering. And I feel like I did like a lifetime's worth of that in the past year, to say the least.
Katie
Do you think, I can assume your answer here based on what you just said, but do you think that everyone should have to, not have to, but should go through something like or something that really pushes them to their limits where they think they're not going to make it through and then they do?
Ryan
Yeah, I mean, I absolutely do. And I think it's so, I'm not a psychologist, but there's something that is so deeply seated in us to seek out comfort and know where our food is going to come from, know where we're going to sleep. I get it. It makes sense to be drawn to those things to have structure and routine and balance and all of that. But man, it's like, it's so formative when you kind of subject yourself to, and it could be different things to everyone. You know, it could be, could be fishing 48 states in a year for me. It could be, you know, public speaking for someone else. I think that whatever that threshold is, that's 10% out of the comfort zone. Like if you can push yourself to go there in a safe way for sure. But if you can push yourself to kind of go there and live in that place and endure it, it's man, so much personal growth occurs when you are there. And it's definitely a little addicting in a way of like, keep pushing those boundaries, keep expanding. I think you see your world expands so rapidly if you're able to straddle that threshold as often as you can.
Katie
Well, and you mentioned the routines and the comfort and all that. And I think there's also something to be said for how nice it is to come back to those things. Like, I definitely love my own space and my routines and, you know, I have everything set up just how I want. And there's nothing that feels better than coming back to that after, you know, even a week or so of like really roughing it to come back and be like warm water whenever I want it, like a comfortable bed, you know, everything, all my stuff right where I want it. And it's just, it's, it's makes you appreciate it a little bit more and not take it for granted, which I think everyone would, would benefit from as well.
Ryan
A hundred percent. Yeah. I think, I think putting things in perspective for yourself, you know, we take so much for granted. living in, you know, an advanced and evolved country as we, as many of us do. But yeah, man, I went so long without showers sometimes and warm water and, you know, months and months and months without even stepping into a climate controlled space. And don't get me wrong, like my camper, the home on wheels is nice, but it's, it's different. You know, it's a smaller space and you're camping when you're in there. And I said it so often, I would weasel my way into sleeping in a stranger's guest bedroom or, you know, stay with a friend for a couple days. And I could just like literally feel my nervous system like, we're safe here. Like, well, it's not raining on us. It's so nice. A little anecdote. I was in Delaware for this, like, not unprecedented, but very, very rare heat wave. I think it was 103 degrees for three days straight. I got my dog with me. And, you know, it's really hard to navigate temperatures like that when you're living in a car. And a friend of a friend donated a hotel room to the cause and was just like, dude, I'll use my points. I'll get you a room. Go stay there. And I think I took like five baths in the first 24 hours that I was there and just melted into the bed. So, yeah, the luxuries of a home are unparalleled, to say the least. But, yeah, I think it's all about balance. You know, if you can get into that discomfort for chunks of time and then seek out the comfort and kind of go back and forth between both.
Katie
Now remind me, you had started by saying you wanted to hit all the states in a year. Had you planned to take that month off already, like do half of them and come back? Or is that something that you kind of realized along the way and you had intended to do it in a single shot? I don't remember.
Ryan
Yeah, so I was on the fence when I left. There was talk of, well, it was me talking to myself and my dog. There was, I was considering driving down to Baja or into Mexico for a month. And I would still be, I would have still been on the road, but just staying stationary in warm weather. I think one of the most challenging things was there were only a handful of instances this whole year where I stayed in the same place two nights in a row. So it was a lot of like pop the camper down, fish, drive four hours, pop it back up, sleep, fish, drive four hours. And that part was, most people don't camp or travel like that. But in order to drive 32,000 miles and fish all this bucket list water that I wanted to, I had to do that much moving every day. So I knew I wanted to be stationary for a little while. And it ended up just being the creature comforts of home were calling pretty loud. So I drove back and spent some time here. And I think I averaged, I did the math the other day, it was like, I think six days per state. When I initially set out, I intended to average five days per state. So a little bit longer, but I was still able to take that time off.
Katie
Just a couple more questions before we actually hear about the fishing. One is, did you pick back up like where you left off or did you pick back up kind of somewhere else? Like would that have been the next state you had gone to if you hadn't taken the break or did you kind of separate it in a slightly off kilter chunk like that?
Ryan
Yeah. So initially, it's a great question. Initially, I ended state 24 in Nevada. Epic. Oh, man. One of the most epic days I've ever had on the water. and my plan was to drive back to that exact parking lot and just continue onwards. It's kind of a long story, but I was actually in an accident, what could have been a very, very serious accident, but I got incredibly lucky. When I was back home this winter, I crashed on the way to the mechanics to get my car looked at before I took off on the second leg. Long story short, I was delayed and I decided to just kind of audible change the plans. And I went directly. I guess I actually I fished a couple of states on my way back out west, but I did. My first real state was Arizona, which would have from Nevada is not directly connected, but, you know, kind of same same ballpark. But I did, I fished Missouri, Kansas, and Oklahoma on my way out there.
Katie
Like to count toward the states, not just because as a fun recreational thing on the way out, like you were checking those off with the intention of not going back to them.
Ryan
Yes, exactly. I'd love to go back to them someday, but in terms of the count to 48, just on my way west.
Katie
And then last thing before we get into some of the stories and the fishing, what's it been like to come back to real life?
Ryan
it's been overall good. I kind of needed to slow down like my my body was pretty beat up and gear was breaking and all of that stuff so I really needed a change of pace but yeah it's a little surreal in a way I don't know if anyone else out there has done extensive traveling who listens to this, but I sometimes I like see people that I, you know, friends like, whoa, you feel like you're from a previous life. So it's been a little bit, a little bit jarring at times. But overall, it's so great to see friends and family. And I'll be reintroducing a paycheck into my life in the coming months, which is absolutely necessary. So overall, it's been it's been good. I was ready for it.
Katie
Yeah, I was going to ask because I know you're a teacher and school is basically starting up now. Are you starting a school year imminently or do you have a little bit of time?
Ryan
Yeah, I have. I think I've got another week or so before meetings start up. Then I'll jump back into it full time. As much as I resisted at times, like we said, structure is really good for a person. As much as I hate to admit it, it'll be good for me, I think.
Katie
Did you have that lined up? I don't remember if you kind of had a known time off or if you had to kind of be applying for jobs while you were out there.
Ryan
Yeah, no, I didn't have it lined up at the time. I'm actually going back to teach at the same school that I was teaching at prior. And I teach at the arts, which it's just a hard time to be in education right now, and in the arts especially. So I was laid off for an indefinite amount of time. The hope was that it would just be one year, which ended up being perfect for what I was doing with this film endeavor and this trip. And I found out that I got rehired last spring. So I kind of did this job bookended my trip in a pretty serendipitous way.
Katie
So that's really nice, though, to have that. I mean, to not have to think about, you know, finding employment when you get back. I feel like that's just one less stress on your shoulders while you're out there and allows you to kind of enjoy your time and also know that it's coming to an end and really like soak it up versus stressing of like, what am I going to do when I get back? I feel like that could kind of end up ruining the end of the trip if things aren't like super settled.
Ryan
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm so fortunate that it kind of went down the way that it did. In terms of that discomfort that we were talking about earlier, you know, I resisted that. I resisted losing my job when it was unfolding a year ago last spring. And I felt that comfort and those certainties kind of being pulled away from me and decided to take the leap of faith. And it's just it's so funny how in hindsight, you know, there's kind of that cliche quote, Like life can't be understood for words. It can only be understood looking at it in hindsight backwards. And it's like talk about something being meant to be and just being gifted this year to go all out and pursue this thing and then return to a place that I know and a job that I know. It was a blessing in disguise, to say the least.
Katie
Well, I want to get into the fishing a little bit. So maybe let's just start, we don't have to go like actual state by state, but maybe we can kind of just go across the country with you and hit some highlights and maybe we'll hear some like favorites and high points, low points, things like that. But let's just get an overview of kind of you working your way back east and how that went.
Ryan
Yeah, absolutely. So the first three states that I fished on my way back out west towards Arizona were Missouri, Kansas, and Oklahoma, which maybe with the exception of Missouri are not necessarily known for their fishing. So I kind of focused on some unique warm water species. I caught my first smallmouth buffalo, which was pretty fun, and lots of bass fishing, that kind of thing. And then I drove out to Phoenix. And Phoenix and Arizona was a highlight. I caught my first carp, which was pretty special. And did some lake fishing out there with this guy. He's pretty young, but incredibly knowledgeable. This kid, Nico, we were essentially flats fishing for a carp. And there were plenty of them, to say the least. And then I did some urban koi fishing as well in Phoenix, which was a trip in itself. And yeah, that started my journey east, slowly but surely. Some other highlights. I fished in Austin, Texas for carp. And this was most of the fishing I did. 99% was fly fishing. But I got connected with this. I describe him as our generation or my generation's Jeremy Wade. He is like kind of river monsters as he travels all over the world, catches insane fish, you know, goonch catfish, tigerfish, ridiculous fish. And he photographs these fish with a medium format camera, like the big old school. And he taught me how to Euro cartfish, which is, you know, a big bucket of bait and you use a little RC boat to swim the bait out. And I fished with him. Another epic learning experience for me. And from there, that's kind of when I got into redfish territory in Louisiana and Mississippi. I met this guy, Brent, fishing the canals in New Orleans for carp. And I ended up, I got a tattoo from him, a little fishtail tattoo. A couple weeks later, it was a quintessential road trip moment, right? Meet a friend, they're tattooing you before you know it. And from there, the White River, I did a couple days there. That was an extra special one. I think the community there really took me under their wing. Got to fish for monstrous brown trout. And it's just such a special part of the country. I met some really, really cool characters when I was down there. I fished Alabama for that one. I overstayed. I think it was there like nine days because I caught 16 species of fish and met this awesome community through this place called community fly shop down in, I think it's Gulf shores. I always get the towns down there mixed up, but right on the ocean. Um, and just, that was special. That's a place that I will be going back to hopefully repeatedly, for the rest of my life. Uh, keep going East Florida kicked my butt. I just tough wind. So many boats, the Carolinas were really good to me. And then once I was north of the Carolinas, I was back in familiar territory. I had fished most of those states already. I was a little late for the straight bass migration, but I was able to kind of find some good fish. I cobia fished for a day, which was just mind-boggling, such a unique species of fish, especially on fly. And then it was really, really great to end things off back in New England, kind of on my, not my home waters, but places that I had fished before with familiar faces. And I ended everything off in Maine, up in Maine. I did brook trout and straight bass and it was amazing.
Katie
All right. I want to pick some of these things apart, starting with kind of the middle of the country, like the Kansas, Oklahoma. Was it a struggle to find places to fish there? Like, public land that also overlapped with fishable water. I just think of, especially like the, that, you know, that part of the country is just farmland, a lot of farmland. So a lot of private land. Was that a struggle?
Ryan
It definitely was. I would say I was pretty well connected in Oklahoma and Missouri. So I kind of, I found my way onto a couple boats and, you know, that's a game changer when access is limited. But Kansas was really unique. I ended up fishing these old pit mines that I think it's coal mines that, you know, were privately owned and mined. And then I'm not going to remember the name, whatever the Kansas State Wildlife Department is, whatever the acronym for that is. But my understanding is that Kansas bought this land back and it's literally like they're shaped like a bowling lane right they're like they're like 50 feet wide and like half a mile long and they're deep they're super deep and they are numbered and the state stalks different species of fish so like pit 13 is like the trout pit and pit 14 is, you know, a panfish pit. And so I was able, I think with the warm water species, they just do a single stocking and then the population sustains itself. But I was able to do some cool kind of like multi-species missions fishing in these old abandoned pit mines. And I actually, I happened to be there during the weekend and there was like a literal bass tournament, like shiny sparkly boats, dudes with live scopes in this pit. And so I went there and I interviewed these guys, met a lot of really cool characters. And like, you know, they were passing out cash at the end to the winner and weighing fish. And it was a it was a hoot.
Katie
That is crazy. I mean, were these boats just like stacked up together in there? Were there not enough of them that it actually got crowded?
Ryan
the the pit which in itself is just such a funny a funny word to describe a body of water the the area the pit that the tournament was on was kind of like meandering it was a couple old mines connected okay so in terms of like square footage of water there wasn't that much but there were lots of channels and fingers that these guys could go down but I couldn't believe it I just came for the way out or way in to film that and like I don't know probably 15 boats 20 boats kind of came back to the ramp and they all gathered up in the parking lot and that was the fishing was not spectacular but in terms of from a journalist documentarian standpoint that was a a cool one Kansas is is pretty unique in that regard And that was all public access. I just had to buy my fishing license. And I was actually able to camp in the little boat ramp areas of each of those pits.
Katie
Yeah, it's funny you say that. It was just kind of a unique moment. Because if you asked me, would you rather go fish in the Grand Tetons or in these pits in Kansas? I'd be like, well, obviously, the Tetons. But would I rather watch a five-minute video clip of someone fishing the Tetons or fishing these pits? I'd be like, I kind of want to see what the pits are doing. It's just a more interesting or way more different than anything else you'd usually be doing. Even if the fishing is objectively like a little bit boring, just the situation itself is really interesting. How deep were they? Do you know?
Ryan
Man, they were deep. I think the first pit I went to was like the panfish pit. I was fishing like a floating line. But then I went to the bass zone and I was able to fish like a full sink line and didn't lose flies. And the fish in that pit were pretty deep. So, I mean, I would guess like over 20 feet deep.
Katie
Okay. That's really interesting. I've never heard of that before. But I guess that's kind of the point of doing a project like this is that you discover these things that you never would have had reason to discover otherwise.
Ryan
Absolutely. I think a lot of the fishing that I do in my day-to-day life is kind of more standard, you know, more fish-oriented, like result-oriented. And with this trip, we really tried to take the approach of like, let's not tell a story that's already been told. Let's not film fish that have already been caught. Let's like see what's on the fringes of not even just fly fishing, but of the angling community and in general. And man, let me tell you, there are some cool rabbit holes that exist out there that, you know, Euro cart fishing that I did in Austin. All these different scented baits and, you know, they're importing them from other overseas. And it's not how I want to catch fish necessarily, but I don't know. I think it's pretty damn cool to learn about it and to kind of show up on the doorstep of that community and be like, hey, teach me about what's going on here. I was blown away more times than I could count about just how many ways there are to target and catch fish.
Katie
Yeah, I mean, I like fly fishing, but I also find it fascinating to see all the different ways that humans have come up with to get a fish out of the water. because there's about a thousand ways to skin a cat, and same with getting fish out of the water. I'm curious, what drove you to choose carp for Arizona? I'm just thinking about, you know, there are some, like, unique trout species in the Southwest, and I would think, as a fly fisherman, those would come to mind when I think of kind of the iconic species of, like, Arizona and New Mexico, like Apache and Gila trout. What caused you to choose a carp over some of those more, I guess, in the fly fishing community, kind of iconic species down there?
Ryan
Yeah, that's a great question. I did, with Arizona, I did fish for Apache trout.
Katie
Oh, you did?
Ryan
Yeah, I got taken out by a guide that kind of hit me up. He's like, dude, I've got them dialed. I know exactly where they live. And we went out, and there had been a huge temperature shift the night before. And, like, these fish were just, it was in still water. They were just gone. We caught a bunch of rainbows, but we put in a full day trying to track them down and it just didn't happen. And then I did fish Gila for Gila trout in the Gila wilderness. And I think had kind of unfortunately like the quintessential Gila experience of like hiked 30 miles and found a bunch of bullfrogs and water that was too warm. And I struck out there as well. And the carp opportunity was just super unique, that type of fishing for carp specifically. You know, we were like literally like push pulling around site fishing for these fish. And I'm one of those guys, especially on a trip like this, like I'll fish with anyone for any type of fish. The more unique, the better. So Arizona was one of those instances where we diversified quite a bit. And it was really just the warm water stuff that panned out. Nothing like bringing a camera with you to make the fishing shut off. That's the only guarantee there is.
Katie
You know, I haven't done a ton of carp fishing. I've tried it a handful of times. I've only been successful one of those times. But the flats fishing for them sounds very appealing to me. When I've done it, I was kind of doing it to try to check that species off my list. but I wasn't super enjoying it, you know, just fishing the rivers in downtown Denver or the, like, super muddy lakes around here. Like, it just kind of felt like, I don't know, I could be doing the same thing but catching, like, bass or panfish or all the other things that are willing to eat and will also put up a good fight. But the flats fishing for them, which I've heard of from several people, does sound really fun, kind of turning it into almost like a redfish experience, but, like, freshwater inland redfish.
Ryan
Yeah, exactly. There was a shop out there that I went into to kind of get some intel and learn what to do. And they had a sticker that was desert bonefish is what it said. It was a picture of a carp. And that's, I have bonefish before, but everything I've watched and kind of like what I hear about them, it's exactly that. Like, if you're on the water for 10 hours, eight of those are just you staring at the water, looking, looking, looking, looking. And then your shot comes quick. And depending on the mood of the carp, like, it's got to be a good shot. And then it's, you know, it's chaos. They're powerful, powerful creatures. And when they're in shallow water, it's so fun. And, you know, it's epic. Like there's donkeys hee-hawing on the bank and cactuses all around us. It was pretty unique.
Katie
Do they tail at all or are you just spotting the bodies?
Ryan
I'm no expert. I didn't see any tailing. You'll see them mud quite a bit, which is, you know, instead of seeing the fish, you're watching that like a plume of mud kind of come up. And sometimes you'll see a tail sticking out of that. I'm sure if they were in the right depth water, you would just get that tail up. We saw a ton of fish who were in such shallow water that a good part of their body was out of the water, but a little bit less distinct tailing than like redfish and grass. But yeah, I'm pretty sure. So Nico is the name of the guide, and he was like, I get stoked when I'm on the bow, like uncontrollable, heart beating, knees wobbling. And he like, even as a guide, he does that all the time. Like he was next level. He, his excitement was so contagious. And that was one of the, one of the more fun days of fishing I've had in my entire life. Just, just, I mean, the fishing itself was incredible. We caught a ton of fish, but just the atmosphere and the landscape. And honestly, he was like a huge, a huge, huge part of it. He's super young. He's like, he is fired up beyond belief, which I love.
Katie
yeah I mean who you're with can can really make or break a day of fishing way more than the quality of the fishing itself in my opinion
Ryan
completely completely
Katie
I know you said you did the the euro I thought earlier when you said it I thought you meant that you were like euro nymphing for carp and I was like well that's that's one I haven't heard before but obviously you meant like a completely different style. was that the only thing you did in Texas or were you also fishing for other things?
Ryan
Yeah. So I, I, did a bunch of fly fishing as well. Um, and you know, technically for the trip, I needed to catch a fish on fly before I was allowed to leave the state. Um, I did a bunch of other warm water stuff down there. Um, a little bit South of Texas, there were some cool spots. We were fishing for like Tetra, like the fish that you can buy at a pet store. They're super small. Lots of other cool subspecies of different panfish and some good bass fishing as well. I didn't fish the Devil's River, any of those kind of more iconic Texas spots, but such a big state with so much unique kind of sawdust, less so with fly fishing, but with so much unique water that I kind of had to pick and choose. And yeah, just the story of the cart fishing and the medium format camera, my friend Jacob, was just too good to pass up. Because as you said, with guides or just who you're fishing with, it's like those personalities and stuff when you're on the road and trying to tell a story, there's not much that outweighs a fish, but I think people often do.
Katie
and I want to hear about the the huge diversity of fish you caught in Alabama I know you said 16 species and I don't expect you to have them all memorized off the top of your head although you're welcome to lit them if you have them but what are some examples of some of the more unusual ones that were in that 16?
Ryan
so northern Alabama offers lots of opportunities for different species of red-eye bass, which we were fishing small, pretty quick moving water, warm water, but, you know, kind of like rapid-y water fishing poppers and streamers. And they are so fun. They're beautiful. And they just, you know, they're explosive and you're in a beautiful setting. So I think it was probably five or six freshwater species that I caught. I think three different red eye species and then some panfish. And then I was down in, down South on the coast near, Mobile Bay and did some wade fishing. We fished dock lights for redfish, which I had never done before. Um, it was epic. Got broken off by a handful of 40 plus inch redfish in, you know, super tight quarters and that was really fun and then some of the surf fishing opportunities down there were pretty unparalleled like I didn't see anything like it elsewhere we could like sight fish redfish in the surf I caught my first pompano and ladyfish just fishing the beach and then I was waiting and I don't know I was probably two feet in two feet of water and I saw Jack like roll through like under my rod tip, you know, moving 50 miles an hour. So just in terms of the diversity of species there and accessibility from shore, I was really, really, really blown away. And it's not, it's a kind of a tall state, but in terms of its width, it's really not all that wide. So for the amount of coastline that it has its fishing is pretty unparalleled in terms of saltwater stuff at least.
Katie
Was all that saltwater also on the fly or did you switch to gear for that?
Ryan
Yeah, that was all on the fly. I did like a little bait fishing and then I did the euro fishing in Texas, but I think like over 99% of my time with a rod and reel in my hand was on the fly. I caught like one northern pike in Michigan because I was just having a hard day. I got the spin rod out. I did bring spin gear for the first half of the trip, and then I forced myself to leave it home for the second 24 just to force my hand.
Katie
The last state I specifically want to hear about is Florida. And I don't know if you're aware of this, but I fished with the same guide you did, I think shortly before or after. I don't know which end, like when you were there. But yeah, he hit me up and was like, hey, I just fished with Ryan Birch and like saw that he was on your show. So yeah, Mike and I went out in March and he said that he had fished with you. So I want to hear about your trip with him.
Ryan
Yeah, yeah. So I fished three days with Mike. One of his go-to clients is a guy that he graduated from the high school that I teach at. And he's in his 70s now. And long story short, this guy, John, the graduate who fishes with Mike, John helped me get this project going. Gave me a little bit of money to buy a camera. I bought 200 T-shirts like five years ago, screen printed the T-shirts, sold them. So I just kind of like started the ball rolling with this vision. And John lives down in Florida and fishes with Mike all the time. So when I went down there for my Florida stint, John, we had never met in real life, but he really wanted to spend some time on the water. And we did two days with Mike tarpon fishing for migratory tarpon. And I had caught a fair amount of juvenile tarpon before down in Puerto Rico and Mexico. And it's a different scene up there. Those fish are no joke. So I hooked one, broke it off, you know, gave it to him on the set and he was gone. And then Mike was kind enough to donate a third day, just him and I. I went down to the Keys and fished for three days, I think. Just got blown off the water every day. Classic, classic Florida Keys. And then I drove back up to Punta Gorda and fished a third day with Mike and had super, super tough conditions again. But we found some fish and he's the man. He's a great dude.
Katie
Yeah, and that was a small world because I literally just found him by Googling. We were going down for a family trip with my husband's family and it was a couple weeks before. I was like, hey, do you think we can sneak away for a day in the water? So I just did some quick Googling, saw that he had the word backcountry in his company name and was like, cool, let me check out this guy. And that's as far as I got and reached out and we set something up. So I thought it was kind of, I don't know, serendipitous that he happened to end up in a boat with you as well. Like kind of around the same time.
Ryan
Yeah, that's so funny. There's so many small world connections. And I was really fortunate to be kind of the recipient of some of those coincidences and people knowing, you know, oh, I know a friend in the next state that you're going to. And I think like out of all the people that you talk to, I would say I'm probably more of like a newcomer to the fly fishing scene and industry. I've fished for forever, but making this film and being on the road and meeting all of these people has only really happened in the past year or two for me. And I had this perception, as lots of people do when they're getting into something new, that it's this like big bad world of millions and millions and millions of people. But I think kind of once you step over that threshold, you realize like, oh man, there's like a hundred of us not actually but like everyone knows everyone and it's such a such a tight-knit community that I really like it was so reassuring to make all those connections and just realize like man like all of these people are not only so kind and generous but also like a lot of them are like Mike are like willing to you know be like dude I'll help this guy out this kids on a crazy mission and donate my time, donate my energy. I had so many guides that just hooked me up and really wanted to kind of show off what they do in their home waters. And I'm like, I have many lifetimes of, I'm indebted for many lifetimes to a lot of these people. So it was incredible. And Florida was great. The fishing was super hard. The amount of boat traffic was really, really tough for me to kind of like, just the whole kind of vibe of like boat culture down there didn't resonate. I've been to so many beautiful places where people were nice to one another. So that was tricky for me with Florida. But I did, I also fished the canals outside of Miami and caught some of those invasive, really colorful, cool, cichlid, and peacock bass, some of those species. So Florida was a lot. It was highs and lows, but I really enjoyed my day with Mike.
Katie
So I have to ask, did you achieve your goal of a fish in every state?
Ryan
I did. Just barely on some of them, but I did technically catch a fish on fly in every state.
Katie
Was the first half or second half better or worse for you?did you have a preference between the segments?
Ryan
So tough. The hardest state by a landslide, or I guess probably the hardest two states by a landslide were in the first half.
Katie
That's what I was thinking, because you said that, you know, some of them, you just barely did it. And I remember some of those from the first conversation, but it sounds like we didn't cover every single state this time. But it just seemed like the first set we talked about seemed like it was a little bit rougher.
Ryan
Definitely. I think there's a huge difference to arriving in a state and having a plan and having that plan, plan A, you know, not having to having to go to plan B when it's 30 degrees out or 15 degrees out. That plan B is like, who knows if you can find a pond with sunfish in it, like everything might be frozen. So that in the first half, when it was full blown winter, took a lot more creative thinking. the second half I was in the warmth pretty much the whole time the first month or so was a little chilly but from about mid-April through when I finished the first week of August there was no frozen water and I feel pretty confident about finding a fish in a whole state when it's warm up you know when there's hatches happening whether it's a trout or a panfish or a bass I'm no master but I can I can figure that part out
Katie
so I kind of I kind of derailed you there but did you have a preference between the two or was it just that the first half was a little bit harder but not necessarily worse just harder?
Ryan
I think the the second half was probably my preference both in terms of the variety of fishing and by that time we kind of gained some momentum with making connections and just my opportunities to access those really special fisheries, find myself on the boats, know people who know the water. I would say the second half down south was pretty special.
Katie
I was, I think, more excited to hear about this half kind of because of that. And I think I would be more excited to do that leg. Not to say that there's not a difference in fishing, you know, trout, let's say, between Michigan and Pacific Northwest. But in some ways, a trout is a trout as a trout. Obviously, the landscape is going to be different. The people are going to be different. But, you know, it's not terribly different to get a trout to take your fly in one state versus another. The southern half of the U.S. just has a lot more variety in terms of the types of things you're fishing for. More coastline, more freshwater species too. So I think I would be more excited to do the southern half. If I could only choose one half of the U.S. to experience in a single go, I think I would do that. If I had to choose for the rest of my life which one to fish, I might choose the northern half just because it's got some of the landscapes I'd really enjoy. But just for like a novelty experience, I think getting to see all those different species and a much different culture than a lot of fly fishing typically is, especially in like the southeast, that would just be pretty cool.
Ryan
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. And I think being very like character oriented with this trip and it being people forward. I think that was a big part of my, I just love that kind of like quirky people fishing in quirky ways, really. It was, I was entertained pretty much every day. I learned so much the second half of the trip. And yeah, there are some subcultures and some species that you could spend your whole life pursuing and, you know, no one fishes for them and they are so fun and so challenging and so rewarding.
Katie
So tell me about the documentary. I know it's probably still in its infancy in a way, but do you have any idea when it'll come out? And kind of what is it? Is it a single movie? Is it a series? What do you know about it so far?
Ryan
Yeah, so I think that's a great question. We shot in total about 35 terabytes of footage, which for non-film oriented people is in immense, immense, immense, like probably over a thousand hours of watchable footage. And our plan this fall is to start putting out short format, little micro stories from the road on social media and YouTube shorts. And through that process, kind of build a following, but really familiarize ourselves with what we shot and what we have. My gut tells me that this will be a single film. If we end up having more than a feature length film's worth of stuff that we feel like we really, really need to share and include, there is a good chance that it will become a limited series or kind of come out in segments. In terms of timeline, you know, I'm back to working full time And my lead editor and best friend also works full time. It's very much a passion project. So we will slowly chip away at it probably over the next, I would say, conservative guess would be like two years. I hope for it to be like 12 to 18 months.
Katie
Well, selfishly, I kind of hope it's more of a series than a single video, because I think that's just a lot of stuff to cover. I know you experienced so many things that to be able to get a little more in depth to part of it. Like I would love to see a series. But that's just my, my third party vote here.
Ryan
Totally. I completely agree with you. I think we're, we're hoping the Netflix deal and the contract, you know, hits, hits the books because it's a releasing an independent series is it could be like a lifetime lifetime's worth of work for a couple guys sitting at their computers. So I'm hopeful we have big aspirations. But I also think YouTube is a beautiful place for something to land. And yeah, it's a really unique story. I think the way that we shot it is really run and gun. And it's kind of like has that road trip feel. I'm excited to share it with the world in whatever form it has at the end.
Katie
And is there anything else in the future here for you? Is the doc kind of the end of it? you wrap up and go back to normal life or do you have other grand plans fishing related?
Ryan
It's a good question. I think through the whole process, I kind of saw this as like one of my life accomplishments and it was, you know, something separate from my teaching career and my career in the arts, but kind of having gone through this process and made so many connections, I really fell in love. I guess I love these things all along, but I really rediscovered this love of meeting people. I'm way more extroverted than I gave myself credit for. And I think there's so many incredible, unique people out there that are doing things under the radar that just deserve to have their story shared. So I want to do more of that. I also fell in love with telling stories, like capturing and telling stories. stories and so my long-term personal plan with all of this is I'm going to write a book at some point that'll the movie has to come first I you know I owe this movie to the world but I really want to write a book much easier to tell a long-winded rambling story in a book and so that's kind of on the docket for the next five years but I do a couple other people that I've met I've been in touch with already. You know, they have ideas for a film or a story that they want to tell. And yeah, life is long and weird, and you never really know which direction it's gonna gonna lead. But I would love to find a way to introduce more of this type of work into into my daily routine. I think independent filmmaking is really at a unique place right now. You see in some instances, there are films that you can go see in theaters that are, you know, shot independently by someone that no one has ever heard of. But at the same time, it's harder and harder to make money off of short form or independently released stuff as the YouTube market gets more and more saturated. So we'll see what comes of it. I've never been in it for the money but when you want to undertake something for an entire life you obviously hope you can make it financially worth it so we'll see what comes of it I'm going to start with this film and I'd love to write a book and I hope I hope hope hope that it's received well enough that it can lead to future endeavors that are similar exciting and that I'm curious about
Katie
cool I want to definitely get info from you on where people can kind of keep an eye on this I know last time it was kind of just like you know sharing a website sharing an Instagram handle but now it's like with this with a film coming out if people want to watch that when it comes out or kind of get the teasers and little things you might release on the way like what's the best way for them to kind of keep in the loop on what's going on and when that's going to be coming out
Ryan
For sure. I would say in terms of watchable content and photos and stories, the Instagram is still the way our website is probably by the time this comes out will have gone a big under like transformation. And I think there will be probably a sub stack and some more substantial things that you can kind of keep up to date on about what's happening behind the scenes.
And the Instagram is just talesofthe48. And that's T-A-L-E-S, like a story. And our website is talesofthe48.com. And I'll add, if you have a unique story that you either want to just run by me and pick my brain about, or it's a story that you want help telling down the line, I would love to get an email from each and every person that that might apply to. The email is talesofthe48 at gmail.com.
Katie
Awesome. Well, Ryan, thank you again for joining me. I'm really happy to hear that your project went well and was a success. It seemed like you were on track for that last time, but I know so much can happen in the course of a year in 48 states. So I'm just happy to hear it went well. And I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for, you know, everything you'll be releasing in the final documentary and the book, if that ever comes out. So I just want to thank you for taking the time for this. And I'm sure we'll keep in touch.
Ryan
You bet. Thank you so much, Katie.
Katie
all right that's a wrap thank you all for listening. if you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes you can find those on fishuntamed.com you'll also find the contact link there if you want to reach out to me and you can also find me on instagram @fishuntamed if you want to support the show you can give it a follow on apple podcasts or your favorite podcasting app and if you'd like to leave a review it would be greatly appreciated but otherwise thank you all again for listening I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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