Ep 145: 2024 Recap, 2025 Goals, and Fishing with Young Kids, with Mel Moss
This is the annual episode where Mel and I go through our fishing goals from the past year and talk about what we have in store for the upcoming year. In this episode, we switched things up a bit. As a new mom, Mel didn’t have as much time as she’d hoped to get out on the water, so in place of some of the goals she was not able to finish, she talked me through what it was like taking an infant fishing and what she anticipates for the upcoming year fishing with a toddler. I went through my goals as usual and set some new ones for 2025.
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 145 with Mel Moss on our 2024 recap, 2025 goals, and fishing with young kids
Mel
three two one
Katie
there was a delay
Mel
I was like you completely missed that I was on it
Katie
no I was on it and you missed it.
Mel
Whatever. Cheers.
Katie
So I will, I'll preface this episode with, this is our annual goals review and establishment for the next year that we've done for, I don't know, two or three years now.
Mel
I thought we were more at like four or five.
Katie
I'll have to go back and count. I think I started in 2019, the podcast as a whole. And I don't think we started until a year or two in.
Mel
Got it. I'll have to go back and look. But this one's going to be a little bit different format because normally we each have goals that we set the previous year. We cover how well we did. We give ourselves some classroom ratings. I think that was new in the last year or two. And then we set goals for the next year. And for me, that's going to be basically the same as it always has been. But motherhood hit you hard. It did. In terms of your fishing, at least. And so you told me ahead of time that your goals were kind of put on the back burner and you didn't want to feel pressured to be worrying about these while you're trying to raise a small kid. So that's totally understandable. So instead, I'm going to start off by just going through all of my goals and how they went. And then you can go through yours and touch on what parts you did do, what parts you didn't do, and why, and any other commentary you have. And then we're a second to transition that into what was it like fishing with a young toddler? And what did you expect? How did it actually go? Tips you have and kind of try to just share what you experienced along the way, since that's what you focused on when you were fishing and you did get out and do some fishing. So yeah, it wasn't a complete bust. Just the goals weren't your focus. Correct. Exactly. Cool. Well, I will get started then. So my first goal from last year was to complete a Trout Woman. And this one, I got an A plus. I mean, it was more of a pass fail. I was going to say, A plus or an F. Right. If I had gotten like one mile away from the finish and failed, then maybe that would have been a B plus. But no, I completed it back in July and actually had Andrew, who was kind of the organizer of that event on a couple episodes ago. And we talked about the process and he completed some things this year, too. So we talked about it. But I realized after the fact that we didn't talk a lot about like what actually happened in mine. So I'd love to tell you about that if you're willing to be an open ear.
Mel
I don't even know what it is. I need all the details.
Katie
Okay. Yeah, so it's a trail marathon, four species of fish, a 12% beer, and 3,000 feet of elevation gain in under 12 hours. Aha. So thankfully, a lot of the legwork was taken away from me. And I basically just showed up. It was already planned. The route was planned and everything. And a handful of people in the group were doing a longer race. So they were doing like 50 miles instead of 26 miles. So a handful of people were up at, I think, midnight or one in the morning to get started. And they were just going to like pound some miles in the dark before the sun came up. Thankfully, we didn't have to start until, I think, 7 a.m., which, you know, still an early wake up and everything to get to the starting point. But not too bad. Like we started in the light. And we started at a reservoir because we're like, let's just get on the board. So the plus side of fishing in a reservoir is that, or this reservoir, there's a lot of species in it. So you can feasibly check off like two or three species out of the four before you even start the run, which would be great. The problem is that when there's multiple species in a lake, you can't control for the most part what you're catching. Like in this case, you know, it's like, it was like rainbows, browns, and I think cutthroats. So like the differences in targeting these is not going to, it's not like you're sending a huge streamer straight to the bottom and trying to dig up like a lake trout or something. Right. So I was struggling because I could only catch, well, first I couldn't catch anything. I was like missing hook sets. I was, they were eating like right next to my fly, but not taking it, just like all kinds of things. And so I spent more time than I should have there. But I finally got a brown, but I, but I'd already spent like an hour at this place. And I was like, I can't spend an hour at this lake and only come out with one fish. So I was like, maybe it was a sunk cost fallacy, but I was like, I need to stick it out and try to get something else. Thankfully, I eventually got a rainbow, but I was already stressed by this point because I was like an hour and a half in and only had a brown and a rainbow. And I wasn't going into this like in the best running shape. So I expected a need to like hike a lot of it. So being what felt like behind on the clock was stressful. But then the cutthroat came super easily. My friend had scouted the day before and was like, go here. They're all sitting in this little culvert. You can't miss it. And I was like, okay. So I walk up and there they are just like stacked up in this little concrete culvert coming out of a lake. I took one cast and caught one cutthroat. And I was like, all right, that's what I needed. But so I wanted to catch one more. So I stayed around for one more cast and got one more fish because I just had obviously not been fishing much that day. That's where the plus comes in of your A. You got an extra bonus fish. Yes. And I did like three bonus miles.
Mel
So that's. Yes.
Katie
Then the last species that. Well, no, I guess there are a couple of different species I could get at this point to get my fourth. The options were grayling, brook trout, tiger trout. And there may have been some more in like the later lake. So we're passing through all kinds of lakes. Like you have your pick of like where you want to go. And we all know what species are supposed to be in each of the lakes. You're kind of like targeting, you know, I need to stop here and here and here to get this combination of species. So my next one was going to be a grayling because it was right next to where the cutthroats were. But it was like the stream was empty. We didn't see any grayling. So I moved on to this next lake that was supposed to have brook trout. And this was another like really, really frustrating one where they were rising just out of range. and there were trees behind me. So it was like trying to roll cast and being like a yard short and they just like were not budging. They're like, no, we will not get any closer. So I'm just getting so frustrated. And then one of the other guys who was on the course with me, he ended up being on the other side of this lake and like saw me and came over and he was like, hey, I'm headed out. But like there's tiger trout rising over on that side of the lake, which I didn't even know were in there. So I was like, all right, well, these brook trout or what I assume were brook trout, I mean, for all I know, they could have been tigers. But I was like, these aren't cooperating. So I went back to where he was and it was just as frustrating. Like they were, they weren't rising out of range, but they were rising really sporadically. Like they'd all rise for, I don't know, 20 seconds and they disappear. And so you're trying to like catch these as they're coming up and super frustrating. I finally hooked one. And as I was bringing it in, it like got off and hooked itself again in the body. You know how that? So I'm like, oh my God, I got to get it in. I got to get it in. And I finally, I finally got it in. I felt so bad because I'm like, now this thing is like hooked in the butt after rising for it. But yeah, I got that one in the net. So that was my fourth species. And then I just had to like basically turn out the rest of the miles. So I was like, cool, I can now actually do my pacing. I can figure out how many miles I have left, how much time I have left and figure out how fast I need to move. So I'm looking at my watch and I see I'm about halfway. So I'm like, I just need to like do 13 miles and then I'm done. And I figure out that at that pace or at the amount of time I have left for the distance, I can basically power walk it. And I'm like, sweet, this is going to be perfect. So I start power walking and I try to run the like flats and downhills and I just walk the uphills. And at some point I'm looking at the map and I'm like, something's not right here. Like the map looks like I'm a lot farther away from the start than I should be. And what I realized is happening, there are two things. One is that with longer distances like that, the watch is inherently going to not match the actual route on the phone. Just because there's errors on the trails and the phones, there's going to be error on the watch. And so there's going to be a slight difference. And then two, all the walking around the lakes and the signal just bouncing around and stuff. Like if you're standing still, your watch is saying that you're actually moving a little bit because it's getting a different point each time it catches you. So it looks like you're moving slightly. So that adds up between that and the walking around the lakes. It adds up to distance that I was looking at my watch and be like, OK, I'm at 13 miles. That means I have 13 left. But that was like 13 until I'm done with the trout man, but not till I get back to the car, which is where the beer was that I had to drink. So I was like, oh, no, at some point I realized that I was like way behind where I thought I was. And so I had to start running again. And all the elevation was on a ridge right before the last bit. So it's like flat, flat, flat, flat. And then you're almost back to the car and you have to climb like straight up a couple thousand feet and straight back down. And so now I have to run on the part that is like straight uphill.
Mel
You're like, I was just leisurely going for a stroll on the flat.
Katie
And now I'm like trying to half jog, half power hike up this hill in the top of the ridge. There were a couple of miles that I do on the top of the ridge, which is like a knife's edge in some places. And then, you know, run down the other side back to the car. And so my knees were just on fire.
Mel
I feel them and I feel it in my knees right now.
Katie
I'm glad I could paint you that picture.
Mel
That's a lot. That is like a really intense activity. That's no joke. Like you have to be a fit person, even if you're not training or if you are training for it or if you aren't like it's a beast of activity.
Katie
Yeah. And there are people that were there that day that were, you know, actual runners in good shape. And I was not well trained for it.
Mel
Did you train it a little bit?
Katie
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. But a couple miles here and there. Yeah. The longest run I probably did leading up to it was between five and 10 miles. Okay. So I like more than doubled the maximum I ever trained for it. So that was a mistake. But I also knew I was like, I can make it 26 miles. Like I know my body can do that. It's just a matter of like, can I do it fast enough? And you never know how long it's going to take to catch the fish and, you know, all the wild card factors that go into it. So it's not just a matter of can you get that far. Sure. Yeah, it was like hot. It was like 90 degrees and full sun. Oh, my gosh. It was an accomplishment. And I finished with like 30 minutes left. That is a huge accomplishment. That's something to be proud of. That's really cool. No, it felt really good. It was one of those, like, this hurts really bad, but, like, that night I felt so good. Just, like, you know, I achieved it. So I'm going to give myself an A-plus on that. It couldn't have gone, I mean, it could have gone better, like, in terms of the wear on my body. But, like, it couldn't have gone better in terms of completing it.
Mel
Yeah, A-plus. A-plus, Katie. That's super cool. Can I ask a really quick detailed question about it? Sure. Was it on trail the whole time? like single track trail or were you on some forest service road or what were you?
Katie
Yeah. So that was the other thing that was a bit annoying. We all acknowledged after the fact that this was kind of a mistake. It was on Grand Mesa over the 4th of July, which is kind of like Taylor Park in that it's just a Wild West free for all with like side by sides and all that. And so a lot of it was on forest service roads, which at first sounded kind of nice because like, okay roads can only be so steep yeah it's nice and wide but we had side by sides driving past us like kicking up dust the whole time some of it was on single track trail the the ridge I talked about was obviously you know straight up single track trail and there were a couple lakes that I spurred off to that were single track trails but the majority of the main route was on a network of roads dirt roads so still easy enough on the knees but just the the experience of being on a road is just not as fun as being on a trail even just like mentally there's something about being on a single track that makes me feel like I'm going faster and like I feel really powerful and on a road it just doesn't feel the same I just don't get the same like high off it I guess
Mel
maybe it's because you're seeing the leaves of the trees just whiz past you so much quicker when you're on like narrow
Katie
yeah I don't know I I hate road running and forest service road is still much better than like an asphalt road in town. But like I cannot get myself to go outside my front door and like go for a run in my neighborhood. I just I hate it. But trails, trails are fun.
Mel
Yeah. I'm with you there. Yeah. The other thing was, did you have to prove your fish with pictures?
Katie
Yes. So you prove the whole thing. And it is a little bit flexible in terms of I was there with a large group including the organizer of the whole event so like it was obvious that we were out there doing these things like you'd have to be like a real piece of crap to be just lie about it like you got invited to this event and you cheated like this yeah just be sad but yeah like and especially if you're trying to submit something long distance and you've never like you know met anybody in the group or anything I think they're a little bit more like please send something like a legit piece evidence. But yes, we all took pictures of all the fish. We all have a GPX file from our watch showing the route we took and everything. And you kind of just make a little package to submit as your entry. Because they do post the times and everything online. So they do want those data.
Mel
Okay. My last question about this is how after, I mean, I know you're obviously used to living in elevation, but between that and 26 miles, that's not flat. And then you drink a 12% beer. How do you feel after that?
Katie
That was not a problem.
Mel
Really?
Katie
Yeah. No, I don't know. I mean, I did make a pretty concerted effort to drink and eat the whole time. Okay. That was something I knew that if I, cause I had never run that far. I was like, if I don't put some thought into this, than I could get myself in a bad physical situation. So I was trying to eat and drink pretty regularly. And someone gave a good tip and they were like, you know, you don't want to eat a huge piece of food and then try to run. So they're like, when you get to a spot to fish, like down some snacks, because then you've got a little bit of time just walking around the lake. To digest, yeah. Yeah, to digest. So I brought like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and there were two lakes that I was going to just kind of like power walk between because they weren't very far apart. and I figured that's when I'd eat lunch. So I like fished one lake. Then as I walked to the next lake, I like kind of that PB&J and then spent the next like fishing. And then after that, I started running again. Nice. So yeah, it was, it was good overall. I mean, it was tough, but it's, I think it really is doable for most people who are at least decently in shape. Like if you can cover 26 miles and you can catch fish, I feel like it's doable as long as you like plan properly and like at least do a little bit of prep. So you don't have to walk the whole time. Like I did, I did run quite a bit of it, but I walked more of it.
Mel
Challenging, but doable.
Katie
Yes. So I'll give myself an A plus. A plus. Love it. Next one is not good. This one's a big fat F. Is it? Oh. I mean, it's also, it was also a pass fail. Like some of these are more like, how well did you do it? And some are just, did you or did you not do it? Did you? Yeah. So this one was to do a top to bottom backpacking trip on a stream where, you know, I find a stream that I can cover in two to three days and fish it like from the whole from the headwaters to like where it feeds into some other stream and just kind of see something from top to bottom yeah this was just a mistake on my part not remembering that my work during the summer is absolutely insane and I'm traveling you know most weeks for work so it's hard to string together that many days off and then not also not have them be days that I need to be at home like getting my life back together after being on the road for right potentially a week or two after another week or two trip right before that. So like I would get time off, but then it'd be like, well, I've been sleeping in a hotel for, you know, the past 10 days. I just need to be back and unpack and get everything back together. So, and I did do some backpacking trips with fishing, but I didn't specifically plan this because this would have required a little bit more thought behind it. And I probably would have had to do it by myself. So I just didn't.
Mel
You did some other backpacking with other people, like with Mike and.
Katie
Yeah, I did friends backpacking trips. And I fished when I was on them, but it wasn't the specific backpacking trips. I guess I'll give myself a D- because I did fish on a backpacking trip, but it was pretty much a fail. I've got to retake that class.
Mel
Yeah, I've got to retake that class. With limited time, you want to spend it with people you haven't seen in a while, too.
Katie
Right, like I've been gone for work. I don't want to just then go out and be a hermit some more. You know, after being alone in a hotel room for 10 days, it's like I want to socialize with somebody I care about. So, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Not much to say on that one. I still think it sounds fun. And we'll see if it makes next year's list. There you go. To be determined. Ooh, cliffhanger. Next one is one I'm sure you'll be curious about because it's been on my list for years. And this time I put an actual frequency to it. This was to tie flies on average once per week. And I will admit, I didn't count how many times I did it, so I can't actually say whether I did it once per week. It was very much not spread out. And that's why I said on average, because that one I did acknowledge that I'm gone a lot during the summer and don't have a lot of time. So it was done in spurts. Like I would do it consistently for a couple of weeks and then I might not touch it for a month or two. But I would say I might not have hit once per week, but I'm guessing I was close if I didn't hit it. So I'll give myself like a B on it because I didn't keep track and it might not have hit once per week. But it was definitely the most consistent I've ever been. And I like made progress. And I'm trying to like tweak little techniques here and there. I don't have a lot to say about it because it's just like me tying flies and I still don't tie like super complex things. But the goal of this year was kind of to make it more of a habit and less of a novelty thing. And I do feel like I got to that point where now like I'll go down and just tie some. I'm not keeping as rigid of track of it now. I'm just kind of doing it when I want to.
Mel
Do you just keep a table completely set up with everything the whole year then?
Katie
Yeah, it just sits downstairs. And so if I've got a couple extra minutes and want to do it, I'll just go down and do it. But I wanted to get to the point where it didn't feel so daunting to go do it. Because every time before, it would be like, I need to get back into this. I need to start from scratch. I need to remember what I need to do. And it would just feel like I'm restarting a hobby from scratch. And now it's much more like I can go down there and I remember patterns without having to look up all the steps on how to do them. So I can just go down and like whip out a couple things and leave. Nice. So yeah, I give myself like a B, a solid B, which is like way better than any grade that's gotten in the past.
Mel
Yeah. Did you focus more on dry or nymphs?
Katie
Still mostly nymphs. Okay. Yeah. And there's a lot of things that I feel like I could move on, but I'm trying to get really good at the ones that I do. So if I tie one and it doesn't look great, instead of being like, ah, whatever, I'll just move on to something else, I want to stick around and keep tying that one until it gets good.
Mel
Do you use those ones that you're like, ooh, not looking fabulous, but...
Katie
Most of these I haven't used at all yet. I have a little, like, tub next to the vice, and I just, like, tie them and put them in their little compartments. And so I've just got, like, compartments absolutely full of, like, some of the things I tie. Remember the one year I sent you, like, a zillion brassies because it was, like, the first thing I was.
Mel
Yes.
Katie
But now they're not all brassies.
Mel
Whoa, you're stocking up for life.
Katie
Either that or you better start losing flies. I know. I know. I probably tied flies more days than I fished this year, which I guess isn't that hard of a thing to do because I can do it in my house. Yeah. I could do it for like five minutes a day every day, whereas you need a little bit more time to fish. But yeah, I mean, I wouldn't have guessed that I would spend more days tying flies than fishing. Wow. That's awesome. Good. The last one was to go fishing in Slovenia, which I think when we talked, it was still a little bit up in the air whether we were definitely going. I had it as like a half goal, like an if we go, I'd like to go fishing. Right. Because this is one of your big ones.
Mel
And I'm like, it was listed as a half goal. Let's talk about this.
Katie
Yeah. No, it's just a half goal because I think it wasn't set in stone. So I didn't want to set a goal. And then it was like, oh, the family trip to Slovenia didn't happen. So I guess I failed. Yeah. Pass fail. But it did happen. Yes. And we did go fishing and we caught a bunch of fish and it was amazing. A plus. A plus.
Mel
Okay. So tell us a little bit about that adventure and what it looked like. Did you get a guide? How many days did you go type of thing?
Katie
We went for two days and we did get a guide. That was something that I was not prepared for was how necessary a guide was. Because I feel like excluding like you're getting a drift boat, which you don't have access to. And so therefore you're going to have way better access to fish. Hiring a guide to wade in like most of the waters in Colorado, I don't feel like would get me a ton. Not that I wouldn't be able to learn something. Like I'm going to always learn something from a guide. But I feel like for the most part, I could go out and also have success myself. Probably not as much. But like I wouldn't go to a river and just be like, wow, I have no idea what to do. So I was wondering like how necessary is a guide there? It's trout. Granted, it's a different species. It's marble trout. They have rainbows and things too. But we were fishing for marble trout. And I was like, you know, they're trout. We could probably just show up and figure it out. But we're like, eh, we only have two days to do it. Let's have somebody take us to, you know, the good spot so we don't waste a bunch of time trying to find our way around. Like, are we allowed to be here? You know, work in the park, all that stuff. And oh, my God, the guide was 100% necessary. I'm sure we would have caught some fish without him, but I would guess we would have caught like one or two fish each, maybe.
Mel
What was the thing that was most necessary to have him for?
Katie
Was it to show you the spots? Spotting the fish in the water. So you're familiar with this because you've been in New Zealand. it was very much what you described from New Zealand where it's like you see a fish you have an opportunity you get it or you don't and then you walk and then you're looking for another one and it was just like that except the fish were absolutely invisible so you don't just blind cast into a hole and assume that a fish is going to be there which is what I do here and sometimes there is sometimes there isn't but like most of the time there's a fish in the hole that I peg as being a fishy hole fishy yeah yeah whether I catch it or not it's probably in there and this that was not the case there. The fish numbers were really, really low. He said that they reintroduced otters or they're conserving otters. And so otters are just like decimating the population of marble trout. So there just weren't a lot of fish and they blended in really well. And he'd be pointing at one and he's like, there's a fish right there. And I'm like, I literally cannot see it. And we'd stare for minutes. And I'd be like, I cannot see this fish. And several times I was like, there's no way there's a fish there but okay I'll humor him and cast I cast out and a fish comes up I'm like wow how are you seeing that seriously so what kind of x-ray vision does this guy have it was it was insane and like some fish we could see and I think there are some fish that we would have been able to catch without him but we we probably caught 10 times the number of fish that we would have without him wow what's funny is that they weren't picky at all on flies like we would change every now and then, especially for nymphs. You know, we change nymphs out every so often, but I use the same dry fly both days and every fish we cut on dries was on that same dry. Wow. They were not picky about the dries at all.
Mel
That's awesome. Did you, I'm assuming this was all river, right?
Katie
All river. Yep.
Mel
Okay. And were they pretty large rivers or, you know, like you and I kind of describe our favorite river being one that you, maybe you could cast three times across or something and then you're across the way you know what I mean
Katie
yeah I would call this like my perfect size river. I'm trying to think of a river that we we both fish. maybe the Blackfoot. do you remember where we fished the Blackfoot? maybe about that size
Mel
yeah so so not a big big river right but you're not you're not necessarily just easily crossing all the time because it gets deep and whatever
Katie
you could cross quite a few places. the water wasn't like rushing or anything the only way the only reason you wouldn't be able to cross in a given spot is there'd be like a deep hole but it's not like oh the river is like way over my head out in the middle it'd just be like there's a big deep hole in this bend so we need to walk down at the bottom of that where it you know feeds out like you could cross effectively wherever you wanted you just have to kind of cater a little bit up or downstream but not not like a big river you wouldn't be able to float it really I think okay I think it would not be great in a boat how scenery. Awesome. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Everything. I mean, the water is like this, this like teal blue, just glacial almost. Yeah. But they're all like that. It's weird. But then, you know, when you, when you're down at the water and shallow water, it's just crystal clear. And the guy, the guy was like, you can drink out of these. And I was like, no, I'm good. And he's like, no, watch. And then he just like drank a big gulp of it. And I was like, that is great for you. And I'm sure you're fine but like I can't I just can't get over my like fear of water wild water so I didn't do it but he kept trying to like convince us that it was okay just kept taking gulps out of this river it's like good for you man but I'm not gonna do it that's funny so he's trained his stomach of steel but yeah it was a it was a really fun trip I would highly recommend it. one shocking thing was how expensive the fishing licenses are.
Mel
Oh, yeah. I wouldn't have even thought, okay.
Katie
Guess, for one day.
Mel
For one day. US dollars. 50? I don't know.
Katie
80.
Mel
Really? Ew.
Katie
And it was per segment of river too. So this fishing license gives you access to a stretch. No. Mike and I got there and we were like, surely we're reading this wrong. That must be an annual license. Right, right. Oh my gosh. Because all of their fish, like stocking and conservation, is all done through the agency, whatever agency it is. And so they use all this money to basically keep the populations alive. Because like I said, there's not a lot of fish out there. So they're constantly trying to boost the populations with planted fish.
Mel
Oh, wow.
Katie
This is all what he said. I didn't fact check any of it. But he claimed that's why the licenses were so expensive.
Mel
And did you only catch marble trout or did you happen to catch any other species?
Katie
We caught one or two rainbow trout. And then I caught one Adriatic grayling.
Mel
Nice. Was that your first grayling?
Katie
No, I've caught Arctic grayling before.
Mel
Oh, right.
Katie
Okay. But not Adriatic grayling. And apparently they're not doing too well either. We weren't going out to target them, but we were fishing and there was one in the water. And he's like, oh, that's a grayling. So we caught that one, but we weren't trying to go for grayling. He said the population's not really there for that. Okay. How big were the marble trout on average? On average, I'd say maybe 13 or 14 inches. And then some were probably as small as 10 to 12 inches. And some were as large as maybe 18 to 20 inches. Overall, pretty large. Like, larger than the average trout I catch in Colorado, for sure. Like, I can definitely catch bigger ones here. But most of the ones I catch here, I feel like are like eight. And I don't know if we caught any that small there. They get really big. I don't know how big they max out, but several feet.
Mel
Are they just like a really pale color to where that's why they're so hard to see?
Katie
They kind of remind me of a tiger trout combined with a brown trout, I guess.
Mel
Oh, interesting. Okay. So they can be really dark and colorful, maybe?
Katie
Not really colorful. They're almost like black and white in a way. And then they have some red dots just along the lateral line. So instead of like picture a brown trout with, you know, all the red spots on the side, but instead they're all lined up just down the middle instead of being kind of splattered across the whole side. And then they have spots kind of like a kind of like a tiger trout, kind of like the top of a brown or a brook trout. I don't know.
Mel
Kind of like the squiggly lines almost.
Katie
Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like I kept looking at it and being like, this feels like a trout I've seen before. As in, like, it's almost a combination of a whole bunch of other trout I've seen. And it looks like it's just those all combined together. They're really pretty. But they're not very colorful. It's probably one of the least colorful kinds of trout I've caught. Which is likely why it's so hard to spot them. Yeah. Yeah. It was. And there was one river that the bottom was kind of sandy and sparse. And you could see them on that. If they're sitting on the top of the sand, they stick out like a sore thumb. But as soon as you're on a cobble bottom, they just disappear. So yeah, I would say if anyone's looking to go to Slovenia, definitely I would recommend doing it. I would say you need to get a guide if it's not something you've done before. And or if you don't have a lot of time. If you've got a week to figure it out, I'm sure it gets easier to spot them with time. So sure, you can go play around. But if you've got a day or two and you're like, I just really want to experience this and I want to catch this species, I would highly recommend getting a guide and letting them kind of lead the way. But that's it. Well, good job. So A plus on that one. A plus. It's just one of my better overall report cards. Yeah. I failed one class, but I passed on the other ones with flying colors.
Mel
Yeah. Nice. Your GPA is looking all right then on average. It's looking all right.
Katie
C's get degrees.
Mel
That's right.
Katie
So I will let you take it away now because I had four and you had four. And I know at least one of yours didn't actually go that poorly. We're setting you up for success here. So I'll let you take it away.
Mel
Oh, perfect. Well, my GPA is going to be a little lower, but I'll kind of just really quick hit on the ones that I basically didn't do at all and why. And then we'll get into other ones. So we'll start with my number one, which was to catch a fish in Italy. We did end up going to Italy. I think when we talked last year, that trip was already set. And so that's why I didn't make it a half goal. It was a full goal. But I think when we spoke last year, what was Brynlee? Maybe just a newborn at the time? Probably like a mother too old. Yeah. And so I don't know if, I definitely didn't know the extent of her getting older and going on a trip with her and what that would all entail. And so she was 10 months when we took her to Italy. We kind of made the decision before we even left to not even bring fishing gear, don't even put it on our radar. We had the plans to meet up with some friends who live in Italy. And we met them traveling in New Zealand five years ago. And we were staying with them for several days. They don't fish. So we just kind of decided we would focus on seeing friends. We saw our other friends in the Netherlands on that trip as well. And did some hiking and sightseeing and really filled our time with that. I honestly now can't imagine trying to fit in fishing unless essentially we dedicated maybe one day and got a guide and we're like, that's what we're doing that day. But it was very easy to fill our time with other fun things without that even being an option. So that was just a big pass fail. And I failed because we didn't bring our stuff. So we couldn't, I mean, we certainly could have, you know, got a guide and rented, I'm sure. But I don't know how prevalent, I really didn't look into it. I don't know how prevalent fishing really is in Italy. We were in the Dolomites. So we were in the northern part. You were near the marble trout. We were, yes. Because I do remember looking into it a while ago. And that species showed up as the species we would attempt to catch had we gone. But I don't know how close, you know, we were to good marble trout fishing in the areas that we that we were in.
Katie
So, well, I think you're right in that you were like, if we were to do it, we'd need to really set aside a day and get a guide and have that be the plan. Because it always sounds like a good idea to just squeeze some fishing in because you're like, oh, I can I can squeeze it in after work. So I could just squeeze it in some afternoon. But when you're like on a trip. Yeah. Yeah. But when you're in a foreign country and need to look up like, what is public land like here? Like, where can I fish? What are the license requirements? Do I need to fish like barbless hooks? And suddenly it's not easy to just go out for an afternoon. Like you really need to put some time into planning it. So if you can, if you can't go for like at least one full day, if not two full days, it's really, really hard to just sneak a little bit in and actually make it a meaningful effort at catching something and not just like standing in a river and like swinging your rod around.
Mel
Right. And that is definitely what I would have been doing or one of us would have been doing is like, and I'll get to this later because we will, we will segue into fishing with a young infant and what that looks like, but, or approaching toddler age. But, yeah, I feel like, if we, had we got a guide, I wouldn't have felt like I got my full experience worth in, because I would have maybe put a third or a fourth of the effort I could have put in had I not been having focusing on a baby, having to be focused on a baby. I just didn't feel like it was a necessary thing to put into our trip and, and, and really endeavor that we would have gotten the most out of. So, so we'll, yeah, fail on that one. We'll go on to number two, which is listen to one entomology podcast every two weeks. Oh and log what I learned in parentheses.
Katie
You've got two things to fail at here.
Mel
This was so specific. How did, why did, you know why we made this? Because we tried to make them specific so you could actually measure them. Because this is, this was a second time round attempt.
Katie
They're SMART goals. Yeah. Specific, measurable. I don't remember what all the letters stand for, but yeah.
Mel
Attainable. Attainable. I think that's the A. So, I mean, this one is, it could have in theory been attainable, but listen, entomology, at least in this phase of my life, is clearly not speaking to my heart or my mind at this point.
Katie
Yes. You identify as somebody who wants to be in entomology, but you are not into entomology.
Mel
Yes. You know what I will say, and I think it's, Oh, it's not, I'm not on my notes section of my phone right now, but I did listen to, I wasn't like a complete F. I put in maybe a month's worth after we did our last recording of some effort. So I'm going to give myself like a D minus minus.
Katie
Do you remember, I’d have to, I'm sorry. I don't remember his name. I'd have to look, look it up in my email. Somebody, a listener emailed me and sent me an episode to share with you of a podcast.
Mel
Yes.
Katie
Did you listen to that episode? Do you remember?
Mel
I think I did. I believe I did. Yeah. Because I was like, I need, I need ideas for content because I was having, I think that was one of the frustrating things for me was it's, it's a very specific thing. And I wanted to, find podcasts because obviously podcasts are, were my preferred method. Um, so I can do that with a baby.
Katie
You can like walk with the baby with the podcast in or whatever.
Mel
Yeah. Or rock her while I'm listening or whatever, not try to fall asleep. But, I did, I found it hard. There was only a select few, you know, podcast, people who put entomology in for like specific out there, like their whole show was based on that versus, you know, oh, we're going to mention it here and there in this episode. And so I did, I started recording, which are jotting down which ones I listened to. I'm trying to find them. Oh yeah. Wade out there. That was with Rick. What's his last name? I thought you chatted with him.
Katie
Oh, Rick Hafele.
Mel
Yeah. And then there was a couple Orvis ones that I listened to, but maybe I didn't write down the one that you had recommended, But I'm pretty sure I listened to it because I needed some more ideas. And, you know, so I listened to a handful. And I just couldn't get into it. I was like, I'm really going to retain this knowledge. Now, it could have been that I was very, very sleep deprived in the beginning. And so anything that wasn't a complete attention grabber, I just dozed off. I was like, I'm out.
Katie
I feel like that's one of those things that might be more engaging if you actually have bugs in front of you. Like maybe if the goal is instead, like every time you go fishing, you turn over some rocks, see what's underneath it and try to, you know, identify what you're looking at or something like that. Because I just feel like that's a more engaging thing. Like listening to entomology, I feel like something falls short when you're not looking at stuff. Even if you know what it looks like, like I know what a mayfly looks like, but if they're comparing the different colors and the different structures and things, it's just like, well, I can't see it. So I don't know. Maybe that's an idea for how to get yourself a little bit more interested. And once you're kind of interested, I feel like then it's easier to listen to stuff because you can picture it like you've experienced it before. I have a really hard time listening to podcasts about things to learn about it for the first time. But I love listening to podcasts about things that I'm really into because now it's like, you know, I don't have to think about what they're saying. Like I just like inherently understand it because I'm familiar with it.
Mel
So I don't know. It might be something to think about. That's a good way to put it. Because I think they got into some areas of, you know, the bug's life cycle and all that. And all the different phases of the different, you know, categories, right? Mayflies, stoneflies and everything. And it was all, it just, because I didn't have that memorized from the get-go. And then I couldn't really follow very well. It's a lot of words.
Katie
It's a lot of like this, then this, then this. And you're like, okay. And then they move on to the next one. And then the last one's like right out the window.
Mel
Yes. Yeah.
Katie
Yeah.
Mel
So that was just hard for me to keep up with. And I'm just like, you know, I think at this exact year of my life where all I need is like a check out and listen to a romance novel on my app or something.
Katie
Like you get so little free time to just relax that you don't want to spend it like cramming for a test that you don't have to take.
Mel
Yeah, exactly.
Katie
That's understandable.
Mel
Yeah. So there's that one. We'll go on to number three, which was, oh, and I'll kind of remind folks who are listening what this means. Catch three fish on flies that you sent me. So as a reminder, every birthday, right, we decided.
Katie
I think we, yeah, we had to establish this because my birthday is so close to Christmas that I never know what I'm receiving for. And so, yes, I think we established birthdays. We send a dozen flies to the other person.
Mel
A dozen flies.
Katie
Yeah. Yes. And Christmas is a free-for-all.
Mel
That's not a fly thing. Christmas is a free-for-all. But you, I do apologize that you have to ship twice in a year and I only ship once. Everything goes in the same box.
Katie
You're more hung up on this than I am. Well, that's why I was always confused what I was supposed to send because I'm like, all my stuff arrives at once. I don't know what the flies are for. But yes, we established for birthdays, we send a dozen flies back and forth.
Mel
Yeah. Anyway, so I wanted to catch three fish on flies you have given me. And I did take your flies out on one of my outings and specifically put two of your flies on. at once. I was actually out fishing the Coeur d'Alene River with Connor when he was in town. Oh, nice. Connor and Becky. And these are some folks that we know from mutually from Colorado. But we went to the river on a Friday. I never go on a Friday in the summer. It was a huge mistake. We got the worst stretch of water to fish ever because everyone and their brother was on the river that day and camping for the weekend. And I felt really bad because we drove a heck of a ways up the river. And I told Becky and Connor and my parents were with me because they were going to watch Brynlee. I was like, you guys, it's worth it. This drive is worth it. We're going to get to our favorite spots. And we literally went to three of our favorite spots way up the river and they were all just jammed with like people kayaking and flipping their kayaks in the holes and just like yeah, crazy maniacs. So anyways, I ended up putting two of your flies. I remember one of them specifically, I was like, this looks like a tasty blue nymph. It was beautiful. And I was like, this one's going to be the one. Cause we were in this stretch that I'm like, there's, this is a slim chance we're catching here, but I'm going to attempt with Katie's magic flies. And I think that I had two or three casts and then I lost both ear flies. They got snagged on the bottom.
Katie
I did not think that's how that was going to end. I thought you were going to be like, and you know, I tried, but they just didn't want to eat.
Mel
I was actually so mad because I was like, both those flies were one of the better ones of that dozen. And I was like, this is going to be it. And then I lost them.
Katie
Also, we should mention that when you say like the better ones of that dozen, that's because sometimes I pick things out because they look like really good flies. And sometimes I'm just like, well, that looks funny. And then I just pick that out and throw it in. I do that too. There's a wide range of like what you receive. It's kind of a grab bag.
Mel
It is. And I also do that. I pick some very unique ones that I'm like, this has a specific time and place to use this.
Katie
But it'd be really fun if one day you're like seeing something flying through the air and you're like, what? What do I have for that? And you open it up and it's like this weird thing that you got in your birthday box. And you're like, that's it. Like I'm sure one day it'll be the ticket.
Mel
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Katie
So I have a question for you. Do you think you would notice if I just saved your dozen flies and then re-sent them back to you for your birthday?
Mel
No, I wouldn't.
Katie
I wouldn't either. I wouldn't notice. What if we've been doing that for years? You're just sending the same dozen flies back and forth. And you're always like, wow, this one's interesting. It's like, yeah, because you picked it out two years ago.
Mel
Right? I really like this one. There's a lot of blue in this batch, which has been the theme for several years. Although I have to go replenish the ones that I lost.
Katie
Right.
Mel
Yeah, you had to pick two more to send back.
Katie
But anyway, what were you going to say?
Mel
Anyways, no, just all to say that that goal is, that's basically where that goal ended. because then I don't think that I actually devoted time to specifically fishing your flies.
Katie
So you attempted to complete that goal, but when it fell apart, it was just gone. It was just in the trash.
Mel
It was. And then that's to segue into this last goal, which is to bring Brynlee fishing three times. And so we can kind of go into what is it like to fish with a five-month-old or 10-month-old or whatever. And, basically that is to say that my expectations for, fishing had to drastically change. And I just had to know going into the year and the summer that, I wasn't going to have a lot of time, me time to like sit on the river on the edge of the river and really diligently pick out and put together, you know, my setup. And most of the time it was like, Jarrett had been fishing and I had been watching Brynlee and he was like, here, you go fish now and I'll watch her and just use whatever I have on my rod. And I'm like, okay, that's the time effective or a time efficiency way to do it. So. Right. Well, did you, did you complete the goal? We did. Yes, I did complete that goal. I think it was, I don't think we went over three times with her. So we like just by the hair of the chinny chin chin completed that goal.
Katie
That's all that matters.
Mel
Yeah. So A plus, that was a pass because we made it very measurable.
Katie
it turns out all of our passes are just given A plus.
Mel
Exactly. It's really helping my GPA. So, yeah, we did, I believe we only went locally to our home river with her. I don't think we went, you know, to any of like Montana, we didn't do a trip over there. It's hard to, because summer is of course the time that I would want to go out and be out, out there with her just because it's so nice out. Um, but, and just, I don't have to, I don't have to be as worried about is she bundled up. Okay. Cause she can't tell me if she's cold at this age, you know, and that's hard. And so it's really difficult because it's almost required that you go, maybe not when she's really young, you know, in the single digit months. She's, you know, you could technically go out by yourself with your infant and make it work. But now at the age she's at, I would never go without Jarrett. And I don't think that I would go solo. I didn't go solo in any of these three outings. It was always with him. And so because his work, summer work schedule is so insane, we weren't able to plan like an out of state fishing trip specifically for fishing. So we just did day trips here, which is totally fine. And it worked.
Katie
So tell me about, you know, why fishing with a teeny, teeny baby is fine, but fishing with a baby that can now walk. I mean, I can I can imagine why this is harder. Yeah. Like, I also want to know, you know, what is baby doing when baby is two months old? You know, did you have her strapped to you? Were you able to just like set her in something on shore that, you know, she can't walk. So she's just going to lay there. Like what what setup did you have and why did it why was it easy?
Mel
yeah I think that I don't think we ever brought anything like her baby Bjorn bouncer or anything where we just sat her on shore she was always strapped on to one of us in terms of we had the I think we initially used the front carrier so she was on the chest pack and that one was really easy when she was so teeny tiny it obviously is a little challenging casting when she's on the front. But, most of the time I was fishing in a pretty small section of the river where I could roll cast. And it was pretty easy. Um, when, when I had her on me, but at the other end of that, we would switch off too. And like, he would be watching her on shore and I could be fishing without, without her on me. But I think that if you were going, if you did have an infant and you wanted to go fishing by yourself, you know, without another adult with you, it's really doable just to have them on a front pack or when they get a little older and they fit into that backpack carrier, like we have the Osprey hiking pack kid carrier. And that is a game changer. That thing is awesome. And we did put her in that as she, when she got older in the summer and that has a little like shade thing over her too, which is cool.
Katie
Did that make it hard to cast?
Mel
Not really. Again, we weren’t… Yes if you were going to cast long distances.
Katie
Yeah.
Mel
Yeah. Yeah. But again, like you're really modifying your fishing down to cast, you know what I mean?
Katie
Like bare bones.
Mel
Yes. All the things you're modifying. And if you know that going into it, you'll succeed and you'll have fun. And then, you know, succeed in a sense of I had a good day on the river with my family. And did I catch a fish? I didn't. But did he? Yeah. Or you know what I mean? Or we caught two collectively, whereas if we didn't have her, we maybe would have caught 10 or something like that. But it was very doable. And yeah, when she was not mobile, it's just so easy because they're very content and they'll even like fall asleep on you, you know? Um, but as she aged throughout the year and napped less and wanted to be moving and grooving, it was almost, I mean, Jarrett fished with her in the backpack for a bit, but she kind of got, if you're not moving in that thing, like it's intended to be hiking. Cause she does excellent when we're hiking. Um, cause we're constantly moving in it. But if you're just standing still in the river with her, she gets really antsy and starts getting pretty cranky in it.
Katie
I could see that. I feel like I can also picture that if I were stuck in a backpack carrier. Like, imagine just sitting on a horse, but the horse never goes anywhere.
Mel
Right. Oh, that's a good way to put it. That would feel so weird. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what else to say about it. But, you know, I guess, what do you bring when you go, what are some extra things that you have to bring? And that's, that was a challenging part is making sure, you know, you want to get out of the house at a decent time. So you have a good full day on the river, but you're making sure that you have all the things necessary for baby. And that's the most important aspect, at least in my, my motherly mind, you know, I'm like, yeah, if I forget this piece of my fishing equipment, unless it's, of course, like something vital, like my reel. But more so is the baby going to be happy and comfortable? And do we have all
Katie
the things for that? Do you feel like you had to narrow that down at all? Like, were you bringing way more stuff than you needed? And you found some things that you were like, okay, we actually don't need this. Were you able to find a happy medium? Or do you feel like you're still kind of bringing and like everything but the kitchen sink?
Mel
No, no, I definitely, as they age, it's easier to be like, we don't need that. We can live without that. But when they're really little bitty, it's like you really, you know, especially if it's your first kid, like she is, you want to make sure you have all the creature comforts for them. But yeah, I mean, even nowadays, what are some of those examples? Yeah. I mean, anything from like diaper rash cream, right? Where I would put it on all the time. And now I'm like, she can go days without that. We're fine. Or like, if I don't bring her a little changing mat, like I'll have a towel or a sweatshirt that I can put down. It's no big deal, you know? So just that type of thing. Or obviously it's different going a full day, but I'll go out and about now and not even bring a bottle. Whereas before I was like, never leave the house without milk. Never, you know what I mean? But, now obviously she's eating solid, so it's different and we're bringing snacks and all those things for her to eat. Um, but I'm trying to think of, I guess toys too. I would bring so many toys cause I'm like, she's going to get sick of this one. If we're like playing on the river bank on a blanket and I'm going to need the kitchen sink of toys. And now I'm like, you're fine. we can get a stick if you need it. Play with rocks, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, I guess that changed a bit over the course of the year.
Katie
One question I had is, did you have a different vision going in about how easy it was going to be or difficult it was going to be? Because I feel like, you know, I obviously don't have a kid yet, but I feel like there's a delicate balance of thinking it's you know I hear it's really hard I'm sure it's gonna be really hard and then also me being like yeah it'll be fine like the kid will just sleep on my chest for like the first two years of his life or you know whatever and I I'm sure that it becomes more clear when you actually get there but did you have any images in your mind of like you know you doing this thing with the baby and then finding out like oh my god you cannot do that with a baby like I had no idea how hard it was going to be to such and such? Or do you feel like your predictions are pretty accurate?
Mel
Is this in terms of fishing specifically?
Katie
Yes.
Mel
Okay. I think my expectations were pretty accurate. I had really low expectations of how much I would personally actually fish when we went for fishing outings. I made sure to fish every time we went. maybe one day, particularly I do remember we went out on Father's Day and I was like, well, I'll let Jarrett fish most of the day. It's Father's Day. And I think maybe that day I fished for 20 minutes in total for a full day outing. So, but I just knew that going in and I knew myself that I would have this motherly instinct to worry more about her than my, you know, entertainment of the day. And so I think one thing that I didn't find or I didn't realize was that every step that you take with them takes longer in terms of time than you think, Right. So, for example, even changing her being out in the wilderness or only having the truck and kind of having to modify or not do it, you know, how I do it at home. That takes, say, I don't know, 20 minutes instead of five or feeding her a bottle. It's like getting all those components ready and making sure that she's either happy if she's playing with toys or if she's on my chest or whatever. And it's kind of like cumbersome when you are carrying them. I don't know. It's just like it's just it takes a lot longer, everything. So that's why, you know, I would go out and be like, oh, it's been three hours and we've done pretty much nothing. But I'm but I feel like it's only been a half hour, you know, and then she'll fall asleep in the car seat because as we're moving from spot to spot on the river, she would sometimes fall asleep in the car seat. And then I was like, one of us is just going to sit in the car now and watch the other. Hopefully, if we can see you from the road while you're fishing. So we would do that, too. But I didn't really predict that part. I was like, she's just going to, we're going to slap her on us wherever we go. And it's like, actually, do you want to wake a sleeping baby from their car seat? Not so much. I see. Yeah.
Katie
Yeah. I would assume the same thing. I'm like, yeah, you just get there and then you just put them on you and they go back to sleep. Yeah. So I could see there being a lot of that where you're like, oh, okay. And now our plan of us fishing together is not happening because like somebody is going to be up here. Yeah. What about any advice if somebody is, you know, like about to have a toddler or about to have an infant? I guess you don't know toddler yet. That'll be your like predictions for next year. But having gone through fishing with an infant, if somebody is getting ready to have an infant, what advice would you give them to like, I'm not going to say like go fishing more because obviously you didn't like maximize fishing time. But like come out of it feeling like, hey, I still got to do this thing I love to do. And I feel like, you know, rewarded after this experience. Whether or not there was actually a lot of fishing involved. Just like how to get the most out of a fishing experience with an infant.
Mel
Well, I think one of the things that I didn't realize is how much joy I would have just seeing our family out there together. Like seeing Jerrett holding Brynlee and casting, I was like, look at us. We're introducing our little one to this thing that we love so much. And I think that's the mentality that you have to go into it with is being like, we are sharing this activity that hopefully one day our child is going to grow up loving as much as we do. And we're immersing them into it as best we can at such a young age. like, yay, go us. We're super proud of us. She'll never not know fishing. Yeah. Yeah. And so you just, again, and I've said it already, but go into it with like expectations that it's going to be so very modified. And if you step foot in the river and, or lake or wherever you are, even drift boat and you're like, Hey, I took some casts today and I felt the sunshine on my face, heard the birds chirping. Like I got outside into my element and I feel awesome about it because you truly do when you're in infancy stage with a baby, it's like getting out of the house is sometimes a huge feat. And so you have to pat yourself on the back when you, especially when you get out onto the river, which takes a lot more effort, as we all know, you know, than even just going to the grocery store. You know, you're putting together your day's worth of food and gear and all that stuff. And you have to do so much more with a baby. And so when you do it and you get out there, even if you actually have river time for like an hour, it's awesome. It's such a beautiful thing. So just, yeah, lower your expectations and also devote the whole day to it. I wouldn't say, I guess everybody's situation is different on how close they live to good fishing water. But if it's like us and we're, you know, a good hour to hour and a half drive to our favorite spots, I just say like devote your day to it. And then you have less stress and you're like, you know, if your baby decides to nap at an inopportune time and you don't want to wake them up, you're like, well, maybe I'll just take a little nap or read my book. and get back out there when they wake up, you know?
Katie
Oh, well, that's good. Because I'll never turn down a nap on the shore while fishing. That's becoming more and more what I spend my time doing. I'm just going to lay here for a little bit.
Mel
Yeah, exactly. That's when you know you're in like the good phase of fishing where you don't have to be fishing all the time. Right, I already caught enough fish that I'm just going to nap. Or I have a baby. Yeah, yes, exactly. But I think, yeah, the biggest thing was realizing that you're going to get joy out of immersing your family or your little one into that environment, regardless of how the day looks. Like maybe you don't even. Right.
Katie
Because it's success every time.
Mel
What's that?
Katie
I said, well, because then it's a success every time. Like then if you go out and like you are with them and they have a good time and you get a little fishing and it's like, cool, we succeeded at what we wanted to do, which was to experience this with our child.
Mel
Yes.
Katie
Like that was the goal.
Mel
Yeah. Exactly. Yep. Exactly.
Katie
Sorry, what were you going to say?
Mel
Oh, I don't know.
Katie
I'm sorry. There's like a bit of a delay and I feel like we keep talking over each other.
Mel
That's okay.
Katie
The last thing I wanted to ask, which is obviously speculation, but knowing what you know now about fishing with an infant, what are your predictions for what it's going to be like next year? And this can kind of be like your goal if you want. We can check back in on this, but it doesn't have to be an actual goal. Just I'm curious to hear what you what you think it's going to be like and how you're going to plan to continue to introduce her to fishing and maximize the time you can get out to. And then next year, I'd love to hear like how how that actually went and how things stacked up to what you thought.
Mel
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that's a great way we can kind of track it over the years and see how it transforms, because I'm sure I'm not the only one that loves to fish and also wants you wants to raise children, you know. So, and bring them up in the outdoors. So, I think that, I'm not going to be, I'll be completely honest. I think it's going to be pure chaos in this next year, this next phase. Well, at least you're prepared. Yeah. I think it's going to be way harder to go fishing with her. This was actually interesting. I was in the fly shop recently, picking out your dozen flies. So no, I did not recycle them this time. Nice try. cover story here. But the, the woman that was working the shop, I had Brynlee in there with me and she kind of asked how it's been going fishing with her. And, she, she has kids as well. The lady does that, I think are older from the sounds of it. And she said, well, just enjoy fishing while they are sitting in the, hiking backpack with being content in there, because once they start moving around, your fishing's kind of over. And I was like, Oh no, that's kind of hard, harsh to hear. But, I, we're still going to attempt it. I think that I don't think I could go alone. That's like a hundred percent. Actually, I can go alone with her because she's going to be running around on the shore and trying to get in the water and getting in all sorts of trouble. So, some adult has to be with her at all times and not focused on fishing that adult so I think that I'm gonna I'll be happy if I get any cast in and again Jarrett and I are good about splitting our time with watching her but I feel like I tend to let him fish more just because like instinctively I just gravitate towards, okay, I'm going to start with Brynlee and you're going to start fishing. And that's just, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's just kind of like, that's my maternal drive to like, yeah. Yeah. And I really, and I don't mind it. That's the thing is I'm not mad about it by any means. Um, so I think I just get so happy to be out in my element with her, you know? And so I think that it's going to be a lot of just chasing a running toddler around the forest and the river edge.
Katie
So maybe this is the naive perspective of somebody who doesn't have a kid, but like, is there anywhere you could go that you would be able to basically take her out and play? And like the goal of the day is that you're going to go out to the river's edge and you're gonna play with rocks and throw sticks and whatever but on occasion when she's just like sitting down and like digging in dirt could you pull out a rod and like cast a dumb brook trout you know like I I know creeks where it's like not hard to catch a fish and you know Yuki our dog is jumping in the water and stuff and I'm still like occasionally able to pull a fish out even though I'm mostly just watching her jump and cannonball in the water yeah which is not conducive to fishing and but I'm still having a good time because I'm watching her have fun and every so often I get to pull a fish out like is there anywhere near you that you could go and like you're mostly playing with her but you just have a rod strung up with you and anytime she gets distracted by something that's going to hold her attention for a little bit you could like take a couple casts. is that feasible?
Mel
I don't think so I just think that I would be too concerned about like turning my back and oh my gosh all of a sudden she's in the water you know even if she had a life jacket on. Um, but I do think that it won't change a lot when it's all of us going together because we're going to do the whole switching off thing. Anyways, we do that with skiing. We do that with, we did that with fishing this past year. Um, it's just that I'm, she's not going to be sitting still in a carrier necessarily. I don't picture her being happy even in the backpack. But again, maybe that'll totally change. And maybe she'll be like loving sitting in the backpack carrier while just standing still in the river next year. Who knows? Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by that. But my gut instinct tells me that she's going to want to be running around. And so there won't be any point where we'll both be fishing at once. It'll be one or the other.
Katie
Right. Okay. So, well, I'm curious to see how this pans out. I hope, I mean, you set the bar very low. You described it as pure chaos. So like if, if I find out that like you caught some fish and things went well, I think I'll give you credit. You'll get, you'll pass the class, you know? Yeah. Perfect. I didn't really put any measurable things on that. No, I don't think you need to. I think, I think I'm just curious to hear how your expectations match reality. And then also just to kind of see change over time you know for anyone else who has I guess someone would have to be kind of in the same stage of baby development that you are or having not had a child yet but will have a child to be able to follow along but I think it'd be like really useful to hear every different stage because like people just say oh fishing with kids and it's like well there's a big difference between a one-year-old and eight-year-old like you know if I have a kid I'm expecting that by five, they are casting a rod, you know, probably poorly, but like, yeah, they're going to be doing some fishing themselves by that point. And, you know, I just want to, it's, it'll be fun to hear somebody's like actual perspective on this is what I encountered. This is what I expected.
Mel
And, you know, what, what things came up. Yeah. I think it'll be really interesting. And I am curious when you said that, I was like, just about to say, I wonder when she'll, her curiosity and desire to actually do the act of fishing that we're doing will will peak you know what I mean
Katie
right because at some point she's probably going to be like my turn yeah and you're going to be expected to hand your rod over to her at which point she's just going to slap it straight down yep exactly exactly but I'm sure that'll be like as much as you're going to watch your rod and be like oh god like no you're probably also going to be like hell yeah she's like she wants to do it now. Like there's going to be like a satisfaction as you rub your hands together and you're like, the plan is coming together.
Mel
Yep. Exactly. So, so well, cool.
Mel
Well, I give you a big round of applause for your goals this year. You did great.
Katie
And I have to list my next years. I won't spend a lot of time because it's getting late. And they're, they're pretty straightforward. So I don't need to explain them too much. I'm going to re-add the stream backpacking trip. And I understand I still have the same job, so it may get punted again. But I do really like the idea. It sounds like a lot of fun, so I'm just going to maybe try to make more of an effort to string a couple days together. And even if it's not a long trip, maybe I'm moving more than I want to be moving. I still feel like it might be doable if I focus on it a little bit more. And maybe I'll fail again, but I'm going to throw it back on and see what happens.
Mel
Do you think that that one's going to be a solo or could you bring someone? I couldn't remember if you said that. I could maybe try to convince somebody to come. I don't know if that would make it easier, though.
Katie
I actually think that would make it harder because if I have a window of like two or three days and I'm like, this is when I have to do it. I have to like I'm not gonna be able to be flexible with somebody else's schedule, which is maybe also I didn't get around to it last year. because like I probably have the time to do it, but not that I won't go backpack alone. I've backpacked alone many times, but I don't prefer it by any means. I do it. Especially at night.
Mel
You're like, who do I chat with?
Katie
Yeah, it's some of it's like a nervous, anxious feeling. And some of it's just like a man. I wish I had someone to talk to. And so I do still like going by myself on occasion to get myself out of my comfort zone a little bit and just do a couple of days by myself in a tent. but it would be a fun thing to do socially you know have somebody else with me so we'll see and unfortunately I worry that that goal is going to conflict with my second goal like if I do one I don't know if I'll have time for the other so I'm putting that I'm putting that out out there right now and I might end up trying to prioritize my second one which is are you familiar with the western native trout challenge I don't think so okay so it's kind of like a it's it's formal but it's informal formal in that you know you pay I want to say it's 25 to enter but it goes for a lifetime like you can take as long as you want to do it and you just need to catch various native species around the west in their native habitat so there's different levels so you know there's like however many species and however many states and so on and so forth up the different levels and I'm signed up for it, but I haven't done any of it yet, despite living in a state that has native cutthroat species. I want to say the Rio Grande, the water I caught one out of isn't one of their approved waters. So they have approved waters where it's like, that's what's in here. We know that. So you need to catch it out of one of these handful of approved things. And I've caught a Rio Grande cutthroat, but I don't think it was in one of their approved waters. The greenback, last time I looked was not on the list because it's not recovered enough for them to want to start sending people out to catch them. Yeah. And there were various other things, but, and, and I think you're not allowed to retroactively count anything. So I, I'm pretty sure I've caught some of the ones on the list, but not since I signed up for the challenge. So my goal is to just get that started by catching one of, one of the species in one of the approved waters and kind of like get myself on the board for that. And the only reason I say that that might conflict is that there's nothing within, you know, two hours of me that will count, I believe. So, you know, I'll need to set aside a little time. Yeah. Yeah. And because I could feasibly do one of those in one or two days instead of the two to four days I'd be looking at for the first goal, I just feel like it's more likely that I try to get goal number two. And if I do that, I might end up bypassing goal number one. So just throwing all that out there. Okay. But we'll be gentle on you. Don't worry. Yeah. I just have a kid and then I can just throw them all out the window. That's right. That's the Mel strategy. If you don't want to do any of your goals, that's what you do. Just the simple route of having a baby instead, you know, just to get out of this problem.
Mel
That's right. Yeah. And then we just talk babies the whole time. Wouldn't that be fun?
Katie
And this is going to become a baby show, Baby Untamed. Which that might be your experience next year, actually.
Mel
That does sound like my year. Yeah. Coming up.
Katie
And then my last goal is to build another fly rod. So I've built one fly rod and I've been meaning to do it again. But that's kind of the competitor to tying flies. So they're both kind of crafty. They both take a lot of time dedicated sitting at the table. So I've kind of focused more on fly tying, but I had a lot of fun building the first rod. And one of my buddies builds rods to sell and he's local and I can buy some blanks off him. And he's there for all my questions and everything. So I think I just need to get around to buying some more blanks off him and building another rod because I think it'd be fun to do that. I love fishing the rod I built a couple of years ago. And it seems like, you know, another good kind of like in between things. Like I don't need to be away from home. I can do it at my house over the course of however long I want. So it feels attainable regardless of what work hits me with over the summer. Yeah. So I think it'll fit nicely. A smart goal. Right. Specific, attainable, measurable. Measurable. And whatever the R and the T are.
Mel
Yeah, exactly. What weight and length rod did you build a couple years ago?
Katie
Nine foot six weight.
Mel
Would you want to do something different then this year?
Katie
Yes. I think I'd like to build a glass rod. So I'm thinking like a glass two or three weight, I think would be fun. That would be really cool. Some little fun thing to catch brook trout out of Beaver Ponds. Yeah, that's what I want. Yeah. Nice. We'll see. I don't know what all options he has, but I'll keep you in the loop. You'll probably hear about that when it's happening, if it's happening, because I'll probably be like, take a look at this. Yeah. So, yeah. Neat. And that's it. I'm just going to do three goals this year. No half goals. Yeah, we were pretty ambitious in years past. We were. But you know what? I did three goals last year. That feels like the number. It is. Yeah. Once you hit four, things start falling apart.
Mel
That's right. or your case one mine were full mine were four goals and that's why I just
Katie
that's why you fell apart. just have a baby and all your problems will be solved well we can wrap up it's getting late but this was fun sounds good curious to see how how next year goes and I'll be sending my my annual email summarizing what we've written down here so we can reference it next year.
Mel
Perfect. So chat and cheers, chat and cheers with Katie. I love it. All right.
Katie
We’ll wrap this up. All right. That's a wrap. Uh, thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. Um, you'll also find the contact link there if you want to reach out to me and you can also find me on Instagram at fishuntamed. Uh, if you want to support the show, you can give it a follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app. And if you'd like to leave a review, it would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise, thank you all again for listening. I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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