Ep 11: GoWild's Director of Business Development, Jacob Knight
Jacob Knight is the Director of Business Development at GoWild, a social media platform built for outdoorsmen of all types. Whether you like hunting, fishing, hiking, or birdwatching, you can find like-minded people and meaningful conversations on the GoWild app. Jacob and I talk about the platform, as well as his experiences fly fishing and teaching his kids how to fish.
GoWild - Jacob Knight
Instagram - @Jacobknight24
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-knight24/
Email - jacob@timetogowild.com
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Intro
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed podcast where we talk all things fishing, conservation, and the outdoors. Today on the show, I'm joined by Jacob Knight, Director of Business Development at Go Wild. All right. Welcome to episode number 11 of the Fish Untamed podcast. Today I'm chatting with Jacob Knight, who is the Director of Business Development at Go Wild. Now you may have heard me mention GoWild at the end of my episodes, but if you're not familiar with GoWild, it is essentially a social media platform geared toward outdoorsmen. Most people think of it as a hunting and fishing app and I would say that the majority of people on there are hunters and anglers, but it also caters to plenty of other outdoor activities, hiking, gardening, bird watching. If you can do it outside there's a good chance that GoWild has a feature for you to use. It's a little bit less followers based than a lot of other social media platforms so instead of kind of measuring your success based on how many likes or followers you get, instead you follow what they call trails which are essentially different categories. So they've got trails for big game hunting, for small game hunting, for fly fishing, for bass fishing, and you follow those trails instead. So instead of following a certain person and seeing what they specifically are up to, you can follow a trail and see what everyone is up to under that trail. So it's a really great way to cater to your own preferences in terms of what kind of subject matter you wanna see. So if you're not yet on Go Wild, I would highly suggest downloading the app and giving it a try. So without further ado, here is my chat with Jacob Knight. Do you just want to start off then by telling me a little bit about your fishing background?
Jacob
Yeah. So like most people, I began fishing going with my dad. And so he was big into fishing little farm ponds and stuff at the time. He didn't have a boat or access to a boat when I was younger. And so it was a lot of just bank fishing at ponds. And a lot of those memories were catching a couple of fish or reeling in fish that he hooked, or chasing frogs, catching crawdads, just keeping myself busy and entertained while he fished. So my earliest memories were this little farm pond behind my grandparents' house.
Katie
Yeah, and I think that's where a lot of people got their start. And it sounds like you had the right kind of dad who's willing to let you just play around and be a kid, too. I feel like you hear those horror stories where someone's to sit in a boat for eight hours and you know fishing is like the lowest thing on their list of activities so it sounds like it's stuck for you.
Jacob
Yeah you know he was he was very mindful of that when I was younger and then when I got to be you know 10, 11, 12 somewhere around that age my grandfather had a lake house at the time and we had access to a boat and that was where you know it was I would go out with him for a little bit he would stay close enough that he could zip right back over to the boat dock and let me off. And so he was always pretty mindful of the situations he got me in and what I was able to do or kind of keep myself busy.
Katie
So were you growing up in Kentucky or is Kentucky more of a recent move for you?
Jacob
Yep I grew up in here actually in Louisville and my parents house is about five minutes from my house. I swore it off said I'd never come back and here I am. So yeah I grew up in Louisville Kentucky moved to Lexington for a little bit for college and then work afterwards and then made my way back here after getting married.
Katie
And so you took a bit of a hiatus from fishing it sounds like when you went to college?
Jacob
I did yeah and actually it was more through high school and kind of earlier college.
Katie
Okay.
Jacob
Yeah.
Katie
And have you started fly fishing by that point? I know you said you didn't start with that but kind of have transitioned mostly over to fly fishing at this point.
Jacob
Yeah I would say I'm probably probably about 75% fly fishing at this point and a lot of that has to do because I still go fishing with my dad on his bass boat and fishing deep lakes fly fishing is sometimes nearly impossible or just not enjoyable for how hard it is. But yeah I didn't start fly fishing until I think I was probably a senior in college and at the time my boss was also an angler and just mentioned it one day and I started asking questions and it went from there.
Katie
So when you took the break kind of throughout high school and early college is the desire to pick up a fly rod kind of what got you back into fishing or you already started making that transition being like I you know, I miss I miss it girl, you know growing up with it and everything and then you know After you picked fishing back up. That's when you transitioned to fly fishing later?
Jacob
Yeah, so I got back into it when, just going with buddies we would go sit by the river and just throw it was ridiculous. We'd take a cooler full of beer and some chicken livers and fish for catfish. And it was more about the social aspect in the actual fishing I don't know that we ever actually caught fish. And then, so that was when I got back into actually buying a fishing rod, my own equipment. And then I started mountain biking and there was a mountain bike trail fairly close to my house that went right next to a little creek. And it just looked fishy. And I guess growing up fishing, I knew how to kind of assess environments and water and it just looked fishy. So I eventually went back over there with a spinning rod and I don't even think I took a tackle box. I think it was just the one smallmouth lure that was on the rod and fished in that little creek and caught a bass and that was it. That was enough to get me back into it. Then I was hopping around the golf course ponds and everything at that point.
Katie
So what are you mostly fishing for? Are you mostly fishing for smallmouths these days? And what did you grow up fishing for?
Jacob
Yeah, I grew up fishing for a lot of bluegill, largemouth bass, crappie, and most of the, I would say most of the time I'm fishing for largemouth because my mother-in-law has a pond on her property that is, it's a great little farm pond for bluegill and largemouth bass. So majority of my time is spent fishing for warm water species, but my ideal situation again is the fall, winter, early spring, getting out to the trout streams that we have around here. You know, if I've got two days to fish and I can get away for a weekend and go to Asheville, North Carolina, which is a five-hour drive, you know, that's the kind of mountain fishing that I get to do.
Katie
So are you catching brook trout there, I assume?
Jacob
A lot of, there's stock brook trout. When you get into the Smokies, there's some of the wild brook trout, you know, the really pretty small fish. A lot of the time, though, we're catching just 10, 12-inch brown and rainbow trout. The brook trout there, it's crazy. They get ginormous in a lot of the streams where they're stocked. They're big and black. They're not very pretty fish. Really? Yeah, it's kind of funny. But yeah, getting up into the Smokies into the mountains you get some of the smaller pretty rook trout.
Katie
So is the the bass just because it's it's pretty convenient and local to you like you just get out after work or or whatever and take a couple casts I assume it's pretty easy with the kids as well.
Jacob
Yeah exactly it's 14 minutes door-to-door and so that's the most access and then there are there's some other places where I'll go and stream fish for smallmouth and that's a lot of fun. I think if during the summertime chasing smallmouth in some of the creeks around here is a blast and sometimes even more fun than trout. But that you know just it kind of depends. It's hit and miss.
Katie
So what are you fishing just standard streamers for smallmouth I guess or largemouth? Do you use poppers or anything?
Jacob
Yep. Poppers, clousers. There's pretty good size hellgrammites. And stone fly type just big black streamers. And then I have used some of like the jointed flies, streamers that you would use for brown trout. I've tried some of that stuff with bass. I haven't had a ton of luck. But I know you can fish for them with that kind of stuff, too.
Katie
Yeah, it seems like bass are kind of just throw something, you know, large and in charge in front of them and pull it back fast enough that they can't resist. I grew up with smallmouth fishing as well, not fly fishing for them. I still haven't caught a smallmouth on the fly yet, but I can imagine, you know, how much fun I had as a kid on a spin rod with them that they've got to be a ton of fun on a fly rod.
Jacob
Yeah, and you know, it's definitely in moving water too, that whole complexity. time you're fishing moving water, there's a complexity to it that makes the fight that much better. But the bass, just pound for pound, you could have a largemouth bass that's twice as big as a smallmouth, but they're just mean. They attack the fly like they're possessed and they're just much madder than largemouths. So the fight and the fishing experience is a lot more fun.
Katie
Yeah, I remember as a kid, so I grew up along a smallmouth river and I've since caught a handful of largemouths out of there and some of the slower pockets along the edges and stuff, but it's you know 99% smallmouths and it took me until I was probably You know 12 or 13 before I actually had access to a lake that I could go catch largemouths in and I was so excited Because in my mind I was like like it's gonna be a larger You know batter fish and then I caught a couple and I was like, I think the smallmouths are better, you know. They’re more fun.
Jacob
Yeah the largemouths, they give you a couple seconds and then go belly up. All right, bring me in, get this over with. Yeah.
Katie
Yeah, for sure. Are you, do you ever catch anything else? Like what else is in these creeks? Do you ever, you know, I, you know, I would always catch, you know, walleyes as bycatch growing up. Do you ever have anything like that or is it pretty much a smallmouth fishery entirely?
Jacob
Yeah, there's, you get what we would call warmouth or rock bass. And then of course the sunfish and bluegill from time to time. And they're a carp. I haven't had much luck chasing or targeting carp. But there's definitely a decent population of carp in the same streams, too, with the smallmouth.
Katie
Yeah, it seems like carp are one of those ones that you have to really specifically target. Like, you're not going to accidentally catch one when you're fishing for bass. But I feel like I would see them.
Jacob
If anything, I walk up and spook them, and they take off. That's usually when I see them. I guess I don't pay attention close enough to their form or their color. So I walk up and spook them all the time.
Katie
Are you mostly floating or wading?
Jacob
I love to wade fish.
Katie
Okay.
Jacob
Yeah. I have a belly boat that I'll use in some smaller ponds and lakes around here. But, you know, it's, I've been in a drift boat a couple of times and I'm never going to turn down a drift boat trip, but I love being in the water with the fish and waiting.
Katie
Yeah, especially with the warm water species, you can go without waders. Just, it's a nicer experience, I think, than waiting for trout.
Jacob
Oh yeah, yeah.
Katie
So tell me about fishing with your kids. Because I, from the form you filled out, it sounded like you had one six-year-old, but you just mentioned that you also have an infant. So, kind of different dynamic.
Jacob
Yeah, I have three. So, six, three, and then five months. So, it's very busy around our house. So, the six-year-old is completely into fishing at this point, for what I think a six-year-old. And so he has been, you know, bait casting, spin fishing. And then this year, he just all of a sudden was like, "Dad, I want to learn to fly fish." So, of course, I'm giddy. I get out the little practice rod and take him out in the front yard and kind of teach him the casting stroke. And the first time he got to fly fish in the pond, he said, "I don't want to regular fish anymore." And it's so... So I had to kind of tell him, I get it, buddy. It's a lot of fun. But you don't always catch as many fish, depending upon what you're doing. Don't completely write off spin fishing. And so he's pretty into it at this point. He has not caught a fish on the fly rod yet. So I am anxiously awaiting that, I think more so than him, to see him do that.
Katie
Did he say why he wants to switch? Is it just, you know, dad does it and I want to be like dad or is he bored with just like sitting there with a bobber? Like what's what's the motivation?
Jacob
So he he thinks it's more fun. And I which is interesting because he's he's snagging the ground or he's snagging my jacket sleeve or you know, he's he's just enjoying it more. And I think it is because it's different because because dad does it. He sees dad going on these these trips that he doesn't get to go on. kind of an element to that. But yeah, I think it's just something new.
Katie
Yeah. I mean, he's maybe ahead of his time. I feel like, you know, there's a lot of adults that are like, "I just want something more. I have fun casting and everything. We're learning about it." And it sounds like he hit that about 20 years ahead of everybody else.
Jacob
Yeah. He's kind of been a natural with casting to begin with. Since he was probably three or four, he was able to throw a crankbait without hooks. He could throw a crankbait probably 50 yards or so or probably 50 feet, not 50 yards, about 50 feet and smoothly. He wasn't snagging anything. He could throw it straight out in a straight line, bring it back, straight line again, bring it back. And then he's able to actually pick out lures, pick out spots on the pond, and catch fish, which I mean, I don't feel like I've really taught him. He's just kind of picked it up watching us do it, I guess.
Katie
Well, that's what I was going to ask if he kind of had like a natural inclination to pick up fishing or if you had, you know, I assume that, you know, as a as an outdoorsman dad, you want your kids to be able to do things with you. But was it something that you kind of, you know, exposed him to on purpose or did he just naturally take to it?
Jacob
Yeah, so my dad was probably the first person to put one of the little kiddie poles in his hand and teaching him how to cast and stuff. And I really think it's been going out on the boat with us and fishing, going to a ponds, and it just becoming a special thing that he gets to do with dad and his pops. So I think that's really where a lot of it came from was just watching us and experiencing it with us.
Katie
Now what have you experienced fishing with an infant on your back or chest?
Jacob
So it's it's different you she was good at first and and then probably you know five ten minutes into it she starts getting a little fussy and you can't stop you have to keep moving so if you're walking and moving she's good she doesn't get upset but as soon as you stop moving she starts to get a little fussy and crying. So I was it's almost like I was trolling around the edge of the pond. I would throw it out to the middle and be walking as I was reeling it in just to keep moving to keep her happy.
Katie
Is the casting motion enough to keep her at bay or you have to be walking?
Jacob
No, you definitely have to be moving. I could kind of bounce a little bit but you know the the rhythm of bringing in line and bouncing a baby is too much for me so walking was a lot easier.
Katie
Fair enough. Do you have any tips for anyone who's like, "I really want to get my kid into it, but I'm struggling to keep them entertained"?
Jacob
Yeah, I mean the same tips that I've heard is just keep it short, keep your expectations set realistically. If you can go somewhere close to home, or I've even taken trucks that my middle son, he doesn't have as much interest in fishing. And so we have other things for him to do if we go somewhere. Having something that they can entertain themselves with, even if it's just the worms or the minnows and the bucket, that seems to be good enough to keep them entertained, especially with having two of them that can walk and go with me fishing. The older son is pretty self -sufficient And then that allows me to kind of cast. And if I hook a fish, then hand it to the younger one. So doing that kind of stuff, too, don't let yourself get frustrated, because they can't cast, and they're getting hung up. A lot of times, they're happy to just play in the dirt. And then when you hook a fish, then you can hand them the rod.
Katie
Yeah. It's really hard to find a kid who's not enthralled by catching crayfish and digging in the mud and stuff, or reeling in a fish. I think casting just isn't in the cards for a lot of kids. But all the other aspects of fishing are pretty naturally entertaining, I think.
Jacob
Oh, yeah. Yeah, and there's definitely times where we will- so at my mother-in-law's pond, the largemouth bass were overstocked. So we had to actually pull some out and eat them just to get the population back in control. And so he's over there just playing with every fish we would put in the cooler. He's over there poking them, playing with their eyes, doing all kinds of just whatever he wants to do to investigate the fish. So he had a lot of fun doing that.
Katie
That's awesome. I've I hope one day if I have kids that they're there is into it as it sounds like your oldest is. That's awesome.
Jacob
You just gotta, you just gotta put them in it, put them in this scenario, put them in the situation. They will entertain themselves. They'll figure it out. Uh, and you know, it's any of my friends who do stuff like this with their kids, it's all about just keeping them involved in it and taking them out and doing it. And then it just becomes habit. They just kind of, they're very malleable. They figure it out.
Katie
For sure. And I think too, like, there's a part of me that's like, "Well, I don't want to have to, you know, take time out of my own fishing to continually take knots out and this and that." And it's like, yeah, at the end of the day though, it's probably more rewarding to watch them anyway and see them get super excited about something that, you know, probably wouldn't mean that much to you at the end of the day. like a single bluegill or something might make their entire week.
Jacob
Yeah. Well, and that's something I still have a lot of learning to do. I mean, the whole, the patience aspect of, you know, you're hung in a bush again, I have to untangle it again. And you know, the wind knots with fly fishing is, he, the last time we went, he came over to me and, you know, God bless him. He tried to figure it out himself. He tried for, I watched him kind of out of the corner of my eye. He tried untangling in himself for a long time, much longer than I would have expected, and then he eventually walks over with it and is like, dad, I got it. It's tangled. And this thing, it was around like four of the guides.
Katie
And picturing a six-year-old trying to tackle that on his own.
Jacob
Yeah. Yeah. He was just over there, squatting down, messing with it. But eventually I just took the leader. I had another leader. I took that one off and there was no way I was getting that undone.
Katie
Does he use in your rods or does he have a rod of his own? I've heard that there's not really a point to having a kid-sized fly rod because you need the length to actually get it cast out there. And that kids can kind of just use adult gear. But do you let them use yours or have you got a little beater one for them?
Jacob
Yeah, I've done both. So I have let them use my good equipment in a controlled environment. It was at the pond, so the worst thing you could do is drop it in the water, then I could still get to it. when we were on the stream I take a pretty inexpensive Cabela's just basic five weight rod and then I over line it because it's like a broomstick. There's not much sensitivity to it at all. It doesn't load well but when I over line it it actually seems to cast a lot better for him and then I don't have to worry about him banging it on the on the ground or the rocks or anything.
Katie
Yeah especially because I can't imagine he's you know taking 60-foot casts out there and over lined rods tend to do well on those short casts like make them very exciting and easy to do so that probably works out well.
Jacob
Yep yeah and it definitely lets him feel the cast a little bit more too. Trying to explain you know the the action of loading the rod and what he's should it feel it and that kind of stuff in the casting stroke is a lot easier when it's over lined.
Katie
That's a good tip because I there's a lot of people I feel like that get started and they understand the theory behind loading a rod but they they still don't get the feel like they have to they have to watch it go behind them to see when it's fully straightened out and I think having one or maybe if you're a beginner maybe even two sizes over lined just so you can exaggerate the feel of that loading.
Jacob
Yeah I think it's one of those scenarios too where we can get locked into the exact specifications of line that you're supposed to use with a rod, and you're not supposed to get anything different, or the manufacturer calls for one thing. So that's what you got to use. And you're not going to break anything by going up a couple line sizes to where it feels comfortable for you, or till you get it like once you get it, then you can go go down some some line sizes, but it's not like it's gonna, it's not putting a different bullet into gun. It's not going to explode in your face so just experiment with it and try something that may work better for you.
Katie
Yeah I don't want to call it personal preference because there definitely is you know a standard of matching things up but it kind of is in a sense you know if if you like the way it feels you know one or two sizes over under what it says then you know why not use it you know just because they say you shouldn't there's definitely your purposes for for both of those things but if it's if it feels good I feel like that's it's the confidence fly theory where it's you know if you fish it well then you're gonna catch more fish on a fly that you don't fish well just because you don't have as much confidence in it and if the rod feels good in your hand you're gonna cast better you know even if it's if it's not quote-unquote the right line size of your rod.
Jacob
Yeah and it's like any other tools or you know athletic equipment that what you have and what you play with and what you use is better than anything that you're not out doing something with. You know, so it's like you have really good equipment but if you're not taking the initiative to go out and practice with it, it's not gonna make you a better caster or a better golfer. You just have expensive stuff. So you know just getting out with what you got is much more important and better for you than having the good stuff.
Katie
For sure. I couldn't agree more.
Jacob
Yep.
Katie
Do you want to transition over to talking a little bit about Go Wild?
Jacob
Sure.
Katie
Maybe we can start by just talking about what it is because I'm sure there's still a lot of people that don't know what it is but should.
Jacob
Yeah. So it's a social media and activity tracking platform for outdoors men and women. There's a lot of hunting, fishing, and you know backpacking, camping, and just general outdoor content that's on there. And what is great about it is that you can tell the entire story of your outdoor life. And so for me, I can have content on there that I'm putting out that is focused around fishing and around taking my kids and around hiking with my family. But then I can also, I can log the hunting that I did with my brother-in-law when he's getting his first deer. And so it's not specific to one activity and it's not specific to one season. So the awesome thing about it is that it kind of lives throughout the year and you can tell your story about what you're doing in the outdoors throughout the entire season and year.
Katie
Yeah, it's more of a, I would say it's more log-based than a traditional post-based social media platform. They are posts and you can list things that aren't an activity you did. can list a question or or any other thing it would be called a traditional post but it's more of a here's what I've been up to here's how long I've been doing it and you can send it to I think they call them trails right? So you can say you know I've been fishing and anyone who is following the fishing trail will see that so it's not it's not as much based on who you're following but what you're following.
Jacob
Exactly. Yeah. And if there's stuff that you're not interested in and you don't care. It's been kind of nice because in pitching it to my friends and family I can say look. And this is graphic but it's not just bloody deer pictures. If you have zero interest in hunting and you don't want to see any of that just follow the other stuff follow the camping the hiking fishing and you know you don't have to see that content And that's what I like about it because it doesn't just pigeonhole into everything. You can kind of select from the stuff that you want to see.
Katie
Yeah, and I kind of wish that more people that weren't into hunting and fishing were on it. So, like I got into it because I kept hearing about it on like hunting podcasts and stuff. And it took me a while to get into it, but now I like it a lot. I like it, and especially with some of the newer features that have come out, it has become a much more used platform on my end for sure. But I wish that it didn't always have the view of being just a honey and fishing platform because I log my ski days on there. They've got bird watching trails and do-it-yourself trails, and there's a lot of stuff on there for people that have never picked up a fly rod or a rifle in their lives. I think a lot of people have the impression that it's all for hunting and fishing. So I'm hoping to see it kind of branch out more. Not that Go Wild needs to branch out more, but I wish more people would give it a chance, I guess, to, you know, log some of their non-hunting and fishing activities as well.
Jacob
Yeah, and what's crazy, I don't know the exact percentage, I can't remember it, but I know it's like 89 or 90 percent or something like that of all the members associate with fishing some way, but at the same time, I don't feel like there's a ton of fly angling or fly anglers that are in the app. And so I see that as a potential growth spot for us. And what's interesting to me is figuring out how we go about attracting those users. So what could we have or what are they not seeing to make them stay if they have come in? somebody who is into backcountry camping and backpacking, what do we need? What would we have that would help get them into the app and get them more active and have this be a community that they want to participate in?
Katie
Yeah, I'd agree. I've seen a ton of fishing content on there, but I tend to recognize the names that are fly fishermen because there's few enough of them that it's like if you go into the fly fishing trail, you see the same people over and over again. it might be the same person has posted the last six log entries because no one else is up to anything. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that, you know, I said that GoWild tends to be I think perceived more as a hunting and fishing platform, but if I had to peg it as just one thing I would say that I view it as a hunting platform just because I think it caters to hunters. Hunters I think receive a little bit more trouble on other platforms whereas fishermen don't. So I think there's more of an incentive for hunters to switch over from something like Instagram where they may be getting their photos blocked or something like that, whereas fishermen don't have that issue. And I wonder if a lot more of the hunting crowd involves just traditional spin fishermen versus I know a lot of fly fishermen that don't hunt and I don't know a lot of just spin fishermen that don't hunt. So I wonder if that is part of what leads to there being more just overall fishing versus fly fishing, or it could just be that there's way more people who spin fish than fly fish, but I have noticed that as well.
Jacob
Yeah, I think if you're looking at just the general population, there's going to be a whole lot more spin fishermen than fly fishermen. But then, you know, the other thing, I guess, how many of the generalizations about fly fishing can we make in one sentence. But there's still a large older population that is fly anglers and so there's that that we would be competing with. But then there's also the whole grip and grin thing. And a lot of social media kind of has that bad taste where fly anglers don't want to see the gripping grin 'cause they for right or wrong seem to think that they have it nailed down for the exact way to hold a fish and treat a fish and everything and will judge people for doing it the wrong way. And so I think there's, I think that puts some people off from social media or at least posting in the same way that hunting does. So while yes, I agree 100% that hunters have benefit or more of a benefit coming to something platform might go wild I think there is some of the angling side too that people just don't want to be blasted when they you know post something that they're proud of
Katie
I've noticed that the the type of people on there it's it's different a different kind of crowd than you find on other platforms I don't mean just they hunt and other people don't or something like that but everybody is very supportive and I wonder if that partly stems from the fact that there's almost a mentality that we've all left the other platform together like we're all on the same boat here because I you know if I am interacting with somebody on let's say Instagram I don't really feel much of a connection to them you know it's just another name on the platform but on go wild you know I see the same names over and over again and I feel like I've gotten to know some of these people. I sent some flies over to a guy I met on Go Wild and he sent me some some tail mounts for for a grass I shot. So it's like there's just much more of a community atmosphere I feel like on there and as much as there there's definitely been photos on there I've seen that I've thought like that's not very tasteful. I don't have the same just sour reaction to it because I assume that this person is you know you remember that they're actually a person You know, it's not just hiding behind a nameless profile.
Jacob
Yeah, and I think the big thing is that we're all on there because we want to share the experience and share the education that we've gotten in the outdoors. And you can definitely see that when people are posting things. And I actually mentioned this the other day. I told our team, I said, "Look, I love that people will come into our app and be just as prideful and proud of a spike buck or a small doe as they are of like a boon and crocket sized deer. You know it's there there's a place for every experience level level there's a place for you to come in and share you know where you are in in your outdoor career or lifestyle and And that it's acceptable. And to me, that's what's important. That's what brings more people into the sports that we love. And that's where I think we have a great opportunity is to continue to show people like, hey, this is a learning environment. This is an experiential environment. We're all out here trying to enjoy the same things. Let's help each other get better. Let's give tips. And to me, that's the great thing about it. It's just such an informative and open place.
Katie
Do you want to talk real quickly about the trophy system on there? Since I think that kind of goes along with what you just mentioned about people aren't afraid to post their first spike buck because it's the best thing that's ever happened to them and there's not that need to only share the biggest and best things.
Jacob
Yeah, so, and I don't know all the intricate details of how Zach, our data scientist, has set up the scoring algorithm and everything, but there's a difficulty component to scoring an animal or a trophy of fish in the method of whether you used a bow or a shotgun or a rifle or whether you used a spin caster or a fly rod. All of that gets calculated into the scoring of the trophy. And so it's not the measurement of the antler width or the score that it gets on Boone and Crockett doesn't matter. It's more about just the type of animal and how you went about getting it.
Katie
Yeah, just to clarify, the scoring, it's not like a competitive scoring system. It's not like you're trying to out-compete other people for the highest score on any given animal. It's just kind of a way to, you can view someone's profile and see how many points they have. And you can generally assume that someone who has a lot of points has had a lot of experiences outside. Like they'd be a good person to talk to about a given subject.
Jacob
Yeah, yeah, and the score is not related to followers. It has nothing to do with the amount of people that follow you or like your content. It has more to do with demonstrating that you have that experience.
Katie
Yeah, and points are also, it's not just from animals you've caught or harvested, it's also the time you've spent. So you get points if you, you know, cook a new dinner, you know, a new recipe or something like that, or you, you know, do a DIY gardening project. Like, those will give you points as well. But you could go on to someone's profile who, you know, talks about being really into archery or something and see that they've got, you know, a ton of points from archery. So if you have any questions about archery, you could reach out to that person. And it's a very welcoming platform for questions, especially with the new gearbox. Do you want to talk about the gearbox function that was just added?
Jacob
Yeah. So as you're kind of leading into that, that's the great point is that while you can assess how skilled someone is in a sport, then you can also see that the gear that they are using on their gearbox and kind of make the assessment from there of, okay, this person seems to be a very accomplished archery hunter. So checking out the gear that they use in their gearbox, you kind of, from there, you can kind of garner that the gear that they're using is for very strong archery hunters, or maybe it's a super, a very pricey bow that they use, but maybe you just know, okay, well, that must be a reputable brand. And so you can start looking into the other bows by that manufacturer. And so you can really change the way that you go about looking for gear and doing the entire shopping process for gear. So you're not just left to what I tell people is like the five star reviews that you see on Amazon or other e-commerce platforms. They're just sometimes just very irrelevant. It could be someone that said, I bought this for my grandson and he loves it and gives it a five star review, which means nothing's not helpful to you. But the reviews and input coming from Go Wild is from hands-on users that you can look and see how much time they're spending outdoors. You can look and see how much they're actually shooting their bow. You can look and see how much time they're spending fishing. And from that, you can assess how much their credibility is on the gear that they're using.
Katie
Right, and like I said before, there's a high rate of engagement on there. And before the gearbox feature was implemented, I had gone on there several times and asked people's opinions on a certain type of gear. You know, when I was getting into archery, I was asking about bow brands and stuff. And this just kind of makes it a little bit easier because people can share the actual piece of gear. It's not just, you know, a written word. They can send me the equivalent of like a go-out link to that piece of gear. Or I don't even have to go on and explicitly ask it, but I can go and be like, "Okay, these are the three names I keep seeing pop up in the, you know, whatever thread." I'm gonna go look at what they have logged in their setup because you can make setups. So I have like a trout fishing setup. So anyone can come on and see, you know, which pieces of gear I use for trout fishing and don't have to throw a question out into the wind and hope that someone sees it.
Jacob
Right, yeah. And two, when you start engaging with somebody and definitely they're giving you advice on one piece of equipment, then you trust them and you know to go back later and kind of see what other stuff they're using too. You don't have to feel weird about, "Well, what was that that they said?" I don't want to ask them about what kind of fly line they use too, so I'm going to go just check out their setup and see if I can see it. It definitely makes it just a more welcoming conversation about this stuff.
Katie
So what do you do as a director of business development?
Jacob
Yep.
Katie
What does that entail?
Jacob
So I am talking with the brands and working with the brands that we're looking to partner with in the app. And so you'll see stuff in there from First Light and Polaris Adventures and the Arcus brand. So Obsession Bows and Ramcat Broadheads. And so my time is working with those brands and there's ads within the app. But then you also will see the giveaways the sweepstakes some of those things that we do So I'm working with those brands to get all that stuff out there for the members.
Katie
Okay? One thing I probably should have asked before we got to that was something that you had mentioned you want to talk about and that was the elitist nature of fly-fishing and how we can try to get off that high horse and be a little bit more welcoming to people
Jacob
Yeah, and and so we've kind of had previous conversations through email and stuff about You know just beginners and getting people into fly-fishing And I think the biggest thing for me going back to something I said earlier is that whole using the gear that you have kind of mentality is don't worry about having the exact right things or If you know when I started out it was an old it probably, like if you bought it brand new today, I think the rods are $35. It's a yellow eagle claw seven weight fiberglass rod.
I've got that rod sitting right next to this table. Do you see it?
Katie
Yep, I'm looking at it.
Jacob
That is an awesome bass rod. If you want to chase some more smallmouth, like that's a fun little, you know, goofy popper rod. I love that thing. So yeah, like to me, and then it was this really, again, it probably cost 35 bucks back then, but it was a Pfluger Medalist fly reel. And now they remade them and started charging 120 bucks for them, which I don't understand. But it's like whatever you can get your hands on, it doesn't matter if it's by Orvis or or Sage or one of the best companies out there right now. What matters is it's a fly rod that is in your hand that you can go out and just practice with, even if it's just in the yard, just get out and learn with something. And so I've had, you know, when buddies and friends find out that I'm a fly fisherman, they instantly, they instantly picture a river runs through it and I'm Brad Pitt, like just out there waving a fly line around. And they-- it just kind of gives off this- they just assess this elite mentality to it. Or that they just can't do it. And so I just want people to understand that the barrier to entry in fly fishing is what you make it. There's nothing out there that is any different from getting into spin fishing other than the equipment. You want to catch fish, this is a way to catch fish. You want to try something new? Well, this is definitely a way to try something new. And I mean, I can't speak for every fly fisherman or fly angler out there, but I would love for someone to ask me questions about it. And so there's a buddy who I've kind of committed to teaching him how to do it. I haven't done it yet, but like we have this rolling date that we're going to try to get together and do it. But I'm excited about that I want to see somebody else get into it. I got my dad, I got my wife and now my six year old. And those that that's way more important to me than the fish I catch is getting other people to try it, getting other people to love it and just breaking down the barrier of you have to be someone that's the prettiest, best caster on earth. And you have to have a thousand dollar rod and you know, this, all this crazy expensive equipment. It's just not what it's about.
Katie
I think that that's the common thread I hear from people is that they like they want to teach other people. And what I've noticed is the only time that I don't find myself enjoying working with somebody else is when I can tell that they're not that into it. You know if if they kind of express a mild interest and I convince them that it would be a fun thing to do and they're just they're not really listening they're just kind of going through the motions I start to lose interest really quickly. But if I've got someone who is like stopping me to you know clarify three things I just because they want to know more. That's one of those people where I'm like, OK, we're going to stay out here all day. Like, we're going to learn everything. Because it's so fun to interact with someone who's got that beginner's level of intrigue that we don't really have the benefit of getting to experience that anymore because we've been doing it so long. So I think there's a lot of people in the same boat that would love to help someone new, especially if that person is really excited to learn.
Jacob
Yeah, and that's like, from our perspective too, learning how to teach someone's very different too than from, you know, the self teaching or however you learned it. It's, you almost kind of have to rethink the things that you've taken for granted, just doing it. Oh yeah. Trying to explain it to a six year old. And so, you know, it's crazy like, all right, wait, am I thinking about this cast the right way? Like, and then so you have to kind of decompose it and come up with the best way to explain it to them. And so it's good for me, like it's made me better at some of the things like reading water, reading water and line control on moving water is where he's struggling right now. And so I'm having to learn better about that so that then I can turn around and convey it to somebody else. So any fly angler that thinks they're too good should try to teach a six year old how to do it and then see where their gaps are.
Katie
I think you're right in that I didn't realize how hard it was to explain fishy water to somebody until I tried to do it for the first time. I used to guide a little bit and it was mostly like beginner stuff. It was a lot of teaching people, not really guiding experience to anglers. And we'd mostly take people to lakes for the first time for obvious reasons. And it wasn't until I started teaching people more on streams that I was like, "I have no idea how to explain that I can tell you where all the fish are going to be but I can't tell you why. And it took a long time of doing it before I could explain why a fish would be, and I'm not talking about a basic thing like there's a rock there, there's a fish behind it because you know it's easier for them to hang out there, but you know you can just see like seams and you're like I know exactly where a fish is going to be sitting in that seam, but how to convey that to somebody who doesn't just see it is hard.
Jacob
Yeah, and I think some of the line control with your off hand, not the rod hand, some of that stuff you kind of just do naturally and you don't even think about, but having to explain to someone how to control that line, where to hold it, where to keep pressure on the line, on the rod, all those things that we just do second nature that you wouldn't even think about unless you're trying to explain it to somebody.
Katie
You made a good point too about the gear, that you have is the is the gear that you should use. I was just talking to my boyfriend the other day about this because he I we've been talking about flyline qualities and yeah I don't I don't have I'm not very much of a gear junkie I don't have very nice stuff and I still have some of the original lines that I got with my reels and I just haven't bothered to change them out yet and he was asking like what makes a good flyline better than a bad flyline and I was talking about some of the you know qualities that you're supposed to get with a better fly line but I was like honestly you know if you learn to cast with a bad fly line you're going to be great with a good fly line. So you know starting off with the best stuff you can get might actually work to your disadvantage just because you can rely on that gear a little bit more but if you learn to cast really well like if you can catch fish on just a crappy little you know $50 fly rod then imagine what you're going to do when you actually do you know pay the 800 bucks to get the nicest fly rod out there you know.
Jacob
Yeah. So yeah that's you know it's again I kind of take for granted what I use you know I complain every once while I complain about I need to get a new fly rod that one's just you know it's older and but and then I try casting my sons I'm like nope not going back to that. So yeah you definitely and And again, like anything else, as soon as you move up to something else, you're going to quote unquote outgrow that at some point too and think you need to upgrade. And so if you can learn on the cheapest, then you know, work yourself up.
Katie
Well, that's maybe that's a strategy. Just never upgrade. I mean, you'll never know what it's like. It's like, if you never ate junk food, you couldn't crave junk food. If you never tried it.
Jacob
If you never had electricity, you'd never know what electricity is like.
Katie
Awesome. Do you want to share where people can either find or follow you or go wild?
Jacob
Yeah, so definitely on go wild Jacob Knight with a K. That's the best place to find me. I'm on Instagram as well. Jacob Knight, 24. I have I've gotten a little lazy on my posting there, but you know, that's you'll get family photos and stuff a lot more in there, too. But yeah, and you can also shoot me an email, Jacob at time to go wild. I'm happy to connect, tell you more about Go Wild or for goodness sakes, answer some fly fishing questions. Get me down a rabbit hole doing that. So I'm here to help.
Katie
You heard it here. Everyone send your fly fishing questions straight to Jacob.
Jacob
Bring it on.
Katie
Awesome. Well, thanks so much for spending the evening with me. I really appreciate it and I hope that I see a lot more people coming to Go Wild soon.
Jacob
Absolutely.
Katie
All right. Take care, Jacob.
Jacob
All right. Thanks. See ya.
Katie
Alright, and that'll do it. As always, if you liked what you heard, go ahead and go over to the Wild Initiative podcast. You can subscribe there and get my shows every Thursday as well as all of Sam's other shows throughout the week. You can also find my episodes over on fishuntamed.com in addition to weekly backcountry fly fishing articles. And you can find me on social media under my name, Katie Burgert on Go Wild or at fishuntamed on Instagram. And I will see you all same time, same place next week.
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