Ep 10: Fishing in Michigan and The Fishing Podcast, with Landon DeKeyser
Landon DeKeyser is the host of The Fishing Podcast and a well-rounded angler from Michigan. In this episode, we chat a bit about his podcast, what he has in store for season 2, and the varied fishing techniques he uses to catch fish in his home state. We cover fly fishing, ice fishing, and Landon’s hunt for big brown trout.
Instagram: @thefishingpodcast
Facebook: /thefishingpodcast
Website: https://www.thefishingpodcast.com/
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Intro
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, where we talk all things fishing, conservation, and the outdoors. Today on the show, I'm joined by Landon DeKeyser, host of the Fishing Podcast. All right, welcome to episode number 10 of the Fish Untamed Podcast. Today, I am talking to Landon DeKeyser, who hosts the Fishing Podcast. Now the fishing podcast is a little different from a lot of the other podcasts out there in that it does not focus on one specific style of fishing. There's a lot of fly fishing podcasts out there, a lot of spin casting podcasts out there, but Landon talks to anybody and everybody who likes to fish. He doesn't narrow himself down to just a specific technique and as much as I like to fly fish now most of the time, I grew up with a spin rod and I still pick one up occasionally so I can definitely appreciate where Landon's coming from when he doesn't want to narrow himself down to one specific technique. So we get into a little bit about fishing in Michigan, which is where he lives, and then a little bit about his show and what's in store for the upcoming season. So without further ado, here is my chat with Landon DeKeyser. I just like to usually start with asking you kind of how you got into fishing in the first place.
Landon
Yeah, so really pretty much since before I can remember, I mean everybody in my family fished. So you know I can I can actually remember like where I went fishing the first time. It was a place that we camped all the time called Brevoort Lake up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, if you're familiar with upper lower. And it was something that I was always pretty obsessed with. I used to drive my dad completely nuts. Just I mean, I would ask him to take me fishing every single day. Even if we went the day before. So yeah, you know, my both my grandparents on either side, great grandparents fish, so it was just part of part of my life, but I don't know, I've a little bit stronger interest than most people in my family even. I would say for most people it's kind of a hobby. For me it's really an obsession as my wife calls it. I think obsession is like kind of a bad connotation with it.
Katie
Like a positive obsession.
Landon
Right, exactly. A passion. That's the word I like to use.
Katie
There you go. So it it sounds like it's kind of a combination of the way I feel like I either hear people say, you know My dad was super into it and kind of dragged me along or you know My parents weren't interested, but I had a bug but it sounds like you did have a pretty solid introduction to fishing as a kid But you just kind of took it and ran with it a little bit more than the rest of your family did.
Landon
Yeah. Yeah, I mean if typically if I'm not working Or hunting and hunting season. That's what I'm trying to do is be out on the water somewhere
Katie
Sure, and did you grew up with conventional gear I assume?
Landon
Yeah I really didn't start fly fishing until really mostly in the last like four years or so. I mean I got my first fly rod I think when I was 10 and fly fish for bluegill and stuff and bass sometimes. But most of the time yeah conventional gear and I still fish quite a bit of conventional gear but I don't know probably fly fishing about half the time anymore.
Katie
Okay yeah I was gonna get into that and maybe this is a good time but obviously as a little bit of background you host the fishing podcast and I definitely want to hear about how all that started and kind of where you see that going but one of the things I really appreciate about it is that it's kind of all over the board and I know you've mentioned That's kind of why you started it because you you know, you didn't you couldn't find anything that fit what you were looking for But as someone who I mean I grew up with conventional gear I've been talking about this quite a bit lately as much as I fly fish most of the time now I still you know when I go home I still pick up the spin rod and I still enjoy it And I can appreciate someone else who's not, you know Doesn't identify as one or the other who's just like I like fishing, you know any kind of fishing, right?
Landon
Yeah, that's Yeah, I would say My I'm definitely a multi-species Multi-tactic angler. It's it's kind of the constant process of learning and doing something different that I enjoy And if you'd pick just conventional or just fly fishing There's so many different parts of fishing that you you kind of pigeonhole yourself away from I guess, right?
Katie
So do you find yourself choosing the technique you're going to use based on what you're fishing for or where you're fishing? Or is it more like I'm in the mood to fly fish today. So I'm gonna fly fish. I'm in the mood to throw spinners or…
Landon
That depends, so this summer I had a goal that I wanted to catch five brown trout over 20 inches the cab in in Michigan that might not be all that that hard if If you know where to go and know what you're doing But the caveat to that was I wanted at least one to be caught on a mouse at night
Katie
Okay,
Landon
and another one had to be on the streamer to kind of force myself to do those two things So this year it was a lot about that a lot of streamer fishing and mousing Specifically to try to like accomplish that goal and I did but let's say in a normal year where that wasn't going on and I didn't have set a goal like that. To me it's more about the body of water that I'm fishing and possibly if I fished there before. So you know not knocking the guys that they want to fly fish and that's the only way they want to catch a fish. You know a lot of my friends are like yeah but what if you had caught that fish on a fly? Like I don't really care how I caught it. I'm still pretty happy. It doesn't bum me out in that way. So if I'm going to go to a small body of water that's really hard to fly fish, I'm probably going to use spin gear. I cover more water, I get to see more, catch more fish, and that's more fun to me. The larger bodies of water, that's where I like to get the fly rod out and streamer fish and try to pick up fish that way. And I think it can be really just as effective given the right conditions as spin fishing.
Katie
So what's your ideal, I guess, body of water for each of those techniques? I know, you know, each of these is broken down into, you know, different kinds. There's different kinds of fly fishing, different kinds of spin fishing, but when you're choosing between, let's say, spin gear and fly gear, what water body features are going to dictate which you choose?
Landon
Some of it has to do, I guess, with like the river surroundings too. If I have an open space, because I'm not the best flycaster in the world at all. If I have, you know, a lot of room to use a fly rod, then I will. That's one of the biggest factors. But I guess you're talking more so about like why I use it or maybe like structure in the river or different types of bodies of water.
Katie
I guess that like when you walk up somewhere what makes you say like oh this would be better on spin gear oh this would be better on fly gear? Because I feel like I'm more the type who chooses it based on what I'm in the mood for. Like when I go home and I'm like I'm fishing for all the things I fished for growing up like I just want to grab a spin rod and like relive the good old days but out here I generally pick up a fly rod just because I'm in the mood to not because of the species I'm targeting or the water I'm fishing?
Landon
Yeah, yeah, no mine's definitely not. I'm usually just in the mood to catch fish and I'm like what would be the most effective way to go in here and catch a bunch of fish today? To an extent, you know, I'm not trying to catch a hundred trout in a day on spinners. But if it's, so one thing like if you're looking at a really small creek and it's pretty fast, you know, it's got a lot of elevation change, you're probably gonna have a lot of log jams and a lot of riffles and so in something like that you're casting into such small pockets, that's where I really like to use spin gear.
Katie
Okay.
Landon
Because you can, you know, you can make a five-foot cast and still get a decent presentation in a very, very small pool of water. You know, sometimes there's really big fish sitting in a hole that's, you know, maybe four foot across and only four foot long, but for whatever reason there's a log across the river or there's a bend and you get a really deep pocket under there. If the water is flowing over that really fast, even with weighted fly line and, you know, a big lead head streamer of some kind, it's hard to get that down into there to where the fish is actually going to come out and want to attack whatever you're putting in front of it. Whereas if you do have a spinner or a sinking Rapala like the countdown Rapalas, then you can get that down into that hole really quickly. So it's more just about what's going to to be more effective on that body of water.
Katie
OK.
Landon
But the one thing I will say is I started doing this a long time ago when I very first started brook trout fishing. We used little tiny Meps spinners. But we'd always cut the treble hooks off and put a single hook on there. And you're going to hurt far fewer fish. Because one of the big complaints you hear from fly guys is, why do you want to put a treble hook in a trout's mouth. And I 100% agree with that. And you don't need a treble hook on these lures. You can take that off. You can put a single hook on there. And I even do that with the Rapalas too. So I change them out to inline hooks that are, like they're just called inline hooks, I guess. You can look them up. VMC has some really nice ones. They don't sponsor me or anything, but those are the ones I like to buy. They're super sharp. I can send you a picture or something of it too. But I don't notice any difference in catching numbers of fish. It's like some days I'll go out and hook every single fish I catch and some days I don't. And that's kind of always how it was even when I didn't switch out my treble hooks. So I would highly recommend that. And it's way easier to get the fish off the hook. you don't get it tangled in your net, you're spending more time fishing.
Katie
For sure. I mean I'd never heard of that before but that makes total sense. I've never really done much like gear fishing for trout but even fishing for bass especially when you've got some of those lures have two or three treble hooks and it's like one hit the mouth the other two are just like lodged in its face somewhere and you're just like this is completely overkill.
Landon
Yeah, yeah I agree. and I mean granted fish like bass are a lot tougher you know that's not as delicate but but still I've seen some bad things happen even even smallmouth fishing on the rivers and stuff too so.
Katie
Yeah because especially those bass I mean they'll they'll hit something much larger than they probably should because they're just so eager that you might have a lure that's like coming halfway back on his head but you said you do mostly brown trout steelhead and smallmouth?
Landon
Yeah, those are really where I spend most of my time. Usually from right now, after I'm done deer hunting, usually after opening day gun season, I'm done for the year. I hunt a lot in bow season. And then it's back to fishing. And I still had fish pretty much, last winter that's all I did. I actually didn't ice fish at all, which I'm going to ice fish this year because that's how I put fish in the freezers, catching pan fish. And steelhead fishing is more just for fun. And then I'll steelhead fish into the spring until about April or May. And then I kind of slowly transition into chasing brown trout again. Because for anybody that's never fished in Michigan, a lot of our rivers actually close to fishing, even catch and release fishing, for a good portion of the year. And those are a lot of the rivers that I like to fish for brown specifically.
Katie
Are they trout streams specifically that close, or is it just a river by river basis?
Landon
Yeah, only the trout streams will close. If it's not a designated trout stream, you can fish there all year. And there are non-designated streams in Michigan that do hold trout, because they might flow into the same river or could have been planted there years ago, and the DNR doesn't track them anymore. Who knows? But yeah, it's just the trout streams that close.
Katie
Now, do you mostly fish for brown trout because that's what's there? Or do you prefer them for some other reason? Like, are there rainbows and stuff in the area as well?
Landon
Yeah, we've got rainbow trout. Michigan, for some reason, doesn't have a lot of big rainbow trout. There's rivers you can go to and catch tons of them. But it's not as common to catch a large rainbow trout here, unless you consider steelhead rainbow trout.
Katie
The biggest of the big.
Landon
Yeah, then we have really big ones. But there's just a lot more brown trout. And I really like fishing for brown trout because they're so aggressive. And I fish for brown trout to see them come out and hammer. you know, a streamer or whatever I'm fishing with. You know, that's the exciting part is when they come out on, you know, 100 miles an hour out of a log jam and just smoke a streamer and take off with it. So that's the biggest reason I chase them, but I do like to do a lot of brook trout fishing. That's really what got me into trout fishing. 'Cause I grew up like the most southern part of Michigan with very little to no trout fishing at all. So it was mostly bass, bluegill, pike, that sort of thing. But when I was probably in my late teens, even early 20s, started brook trout fishing up in the UP with my cousin Dustin, and I was like hooked instantly. It was like, where can I find more of these fish? Like, where do they live at? And then of course that led me to finding that there was a lot more brown trout the southern part of the state. So I was like, "Okay, well I'll go try to find some of these." And one thing led to the next and now I'm really just a complete addict when it comes to trout and steelhead fishing.
Katie
So did you end up catching the brown trout you were trying to on the mouse?
Landon
I did.
Katie
Yeah?
Landon
Yep. Yeah, I actually I completed that goal plus one. I think I got six six browns this summer. I'm trying to think of what I caught the rest of them on. I know a couple came on Rapalas and I don't remember what the oh the first one I caught on a jig and wax worm the first day of the year actually January 1st. We were steelhead fishing and I just caught my personal best steelhead and then the very next cast caught a 22 inch brown which was a surprise in that river because you don't catch catch many of them.
Katie
So not a bad day.
Landon
Yeah it was a good start. I had a kind of a head start almost to my goal.
Katie
So it sounds like you caught your, was it five brown trout you were trying to catch like all on different different kinds of techniques.
Landon
Yep exactly.
Katie
That's pretty cool. So tell me about ice fishing because I like I have a lot of experience with spin gear and lures and I have a lot of experience with fly fishing but something I really like to do and have not gotten to do yet is go ice fishing?
Landon
Ice fishing is fun but it is not in any way exciting. Well, there are exciting parts obviously but for the most part you're standing on the ice fishing through a tiny hole. To me it's more of a social thing because you can go with a bunch of people. You can have two or three buddies go out there with you and if the fishing's not good, at least you're hanging out and talking. Whereas if you're fishing out of a boat, a lot of times you can only have three to maybe four people and then you're crowded. Waiting's obviously tough to fish, really fish with people and have like quality conversation at the same time. So that's probably one of my favorite things about it is you can have as many people as you want and go out there, have some beers, cook lunch out there, make a whole day of it. But and then I also you know honestly what draws me to go ice fishing is the fact that I'm bringing fish home because bluegill, perch, walleye you know they're all very very delicious, catch them fresh and they freeze well so that's how I get most of my fish for a good portion of the year. And the one one thing I'll say that I really like about ice fishing that is very exciting is tip-up fishing.
Katie
That's what I was going to ask if you are using tip-ups or that's like the one thing I know about it is if you like that's an option to use tip-ups.
Landon
Yeah and tip-ups are fun because you can be fishing with one rod and you know catching bluegill and perch and you set these tip-ups which is for anybody that doesn't know it's basically just a thing with a spool line you set on the ice and and that spool goes down into the water and it has typically a flag that comes over and that's like a that's what holds that spool from free preschooling. And then the fish come along and take your bait and swim down with it and that sets the flag off and the flag stands up. And then everybody yells "Flag!" and everybody starts running over to the fish depending on how far away it is. You know if it's a long ways across the ice you can start running over there and then as you get closer you slow down and you watch to see if like the spool is turning and if it is it's really exciting and you go over there and you pull the slack out of the line and then as as soon as you feel it kind of go tight you you pull really hard and set the hook and hopefully if you're lucky you have like a great big pike on is is generally generally what we're trying to get on tip-ups But you can use tip-ups for for all types of different fish. We use them for for walleye actually use them for perch In places where you get the big jumbo perch. So yeah, it's it's fun. It's kind of like trapping and fishing combined
Katie
Oh, yeah, that's true. I never thought of that Two questions on on that one is that I've heard that before That a lot of people use tip-ups for pike. Why are tip-ups relevant to pike specifically versus other species?
Landon
Yeah, sure. So the reason is you're usually taking a hook and you're setting it down somewhere in the water column, like maybe right above a weed line or on the outside of a weed line around some structure where a pike might be living or whatever fish that you're fishing for. And you have a weight that goes down there and you're putting like a big Shiner or Sacramento on a hook generally. And then, you know, if a pike comes by in the middle of winter and there's just a fish barely swimming there, they're opportunists. So, a lot of times they can't pass it up and make a meal out of it. Or try to.
Katie
True. Second question is, are you basically like hand lining these fish then once you hook them? Like are you pulling it in by the, is it like a rope or?
Landon
Yep, so well they do actually make different types of tip-ups where it has a fishing reel on it. I don't have any of those. I'd like to get one. You actually put like a pole in there and then you can pick it up and reel them in that way. But generally a tip-up it's just like a spool of line and when you pull the fish back in you just hand over hand.
Katie
Okay.
Landon
Pull it back in.
Katie
Now are there are laws like I know out here and I'm pretty sure several of the other states I've been to have laws that discuss like how many rods you can have in the water again like how many lines you can have in the water a single time do tip -ups count as like X do you have to pay more for like an extra rod fee or anything like that to have them all going
Landon
no you don't have to pay for them but they do they do count as an extra line
Katie
okay and you don't have to pay for extra lines it's like, you know, a maximum number of lines that you can have out
Landon
Yeah, I always fish with two but I think I'd actually have to check the regulations on this but I'm pretty sure you can have three most anywhere.
Katie
And is that three including like if you're if you have a tip up but you're also sitting next to a hole with a like a rod in the water? Yep. That one also counts?
Landon
Yeah, anything with a hook that you have in the water is considered a line so it doesn't necessarily have to be a rod it can be a tip up. Those are really the only ways I can think to fish in Michigan offhand because you can't use like like jug lines or trout lines or like do any kind of you know weird stuff like that here.
Katie
Okay.
Landon
Unfortunately.
Katie
So do you do any fly fishing for any of these other species like pike or anything like that?
Landon
Smallmouth I do.
Katie
Smallmouth?
Landon
Yeah smallmouth I mean they're a ton of fun to catch on on fly gear. They're aggressive in the area so you catch them they're usually more abundant than trout, and they fight harder, honestly. So I grew up doing a lot of smallmouth fishing on the little rivers and creeks and stuff. And that's really the only type of fish we caught in rivers back then. I tried to catch- obviously, you've got suckers and carp and stuff, but we never chased those. Although I did go fishing for carp this year on the fly, and that was really fun.
Katie
Did you have any luck?
Landon
I did. I caught one early on in the day and that was all we got the whole day. It was pretty tough conditions that day because you're sight fishing. So if you don't have the right sunlight, if there's chop on the water, it's really tough. And you're just trying to put this cast perfectly in front of them and they're really picky about the take. So it's quite technical actually. And that's what I liked about it. But you're seeing the fish and casting to them. You can always see what's going on. You're like, "Oh, I almost got it." It just keeps you going all day and making cast after cast.
Katie
Is that a river carp or lake carp?
Landon
This was in a reservoir, really, on a small lake above a dam. There is some current in it because it's not a big enough lake that it stops it. but you could do it in either though.
Katie
What kind of flies are you using for that?
Landon
Honestly nothing really…they're just kind of like a brown egg sucking leech. I guess. They have like a little red head and yeah just brown instead of black and they kind of have some little legs coming off. I'm almost like a shrimp imitation I would say. Nothing really special looking. You look at it and you go "Hmm, that's what you use? Okay."
Katie
So I assume that the way you, because that that sounds like it would be eaten by nearly any species of fish that's large enough to take it. I assume that you're just getting carp on it because you're targeting the carp. Like you're casting right in front of it versus just blind casting at which point you probably catching anything else that sees it?
Landon
You know surprisingly that day we were talking about that we're like I'm surprised we haven't caught something else. Like a little bass or like a bluegill and we didn't. We didn't the entire day so that was odd because there's no reason why other fish wouldn't eat it. But yeah blind casting to carp that way would be really really tough. It's you know you're really trying to find one that's feeding and you can tell they're feeding because that kind of tip their back up and they have their nose down and they're like rooting around in the water and stuff. And those are the ones you want to cast to. And I actually have a whole podcast episode if somebody wanted a lot more details on it. And John Lee, the guy that we're talking with is super knowledgeable. But it's almost weird the way they act. Like, and you can tell like when they're like looking at it they kind of get excited almost and then they slurp it up and then that's when you set the hook. You watch the whole thing happen and they'll come up and do that sometimes and then like right at last minute reject it. They just decide, "Yep, you know what? I don't think that's food for some reason. I'm not going to eat it." They're pretty smart.
Katie
Do you ever feel the take or are you all just kind of going off of their mannerisms and just studying it when you see it?
Landon
Exactly. It's really just all sight and mannerisms. Now there are like mirror carp are a slight different variation and I guess they are more aggressive and if you go up to like fish them in the northern part of the lower peninsula on the flats on Lake Michigan I guess they're more aggressive and they will actually kind of come and hit the lure and take it.
Katie
Okay. I assume if so I have a like together and it had carp in it and I had one or two friends who did catch carp by accident they were just stripping something back in and those I know you know because they were stripping back in they felt it because you know they go to they go to pull that spooks the carp carp pulls and it was like their rods were almost yanked out of their hands because they're expecting to catch like a largemouth or something so but it sounds like that's just a different that was just you know dumb luck.
Landon
Oh I'm sure it happens yeah I'm sure it happens. You'd think for how much how many carp there are around and how much I fish I would have caught some more of them at some point.
Katie
I still haven't caught my first one so I feel your pain.
Landon
They’re a smart fish. They’re they're definitely undervalued for a sport species I would say.
Katie
Have you ever eaten one? I've heard they're not bad.
Landon
I have not. I have not eaten a carp. If somebody else was going to kill it and clean it and cook it up I would try it. but I don't know I'm kind of a I'll eat anything I'm not a picky eater but I'm picky in terms of what fish I would I would take home.
Katie
Just based on the species that you just feel weird about and species you don't?
Landon
Yeah well and what's available you know sure you could probably cook carp to taste just fine if you know how to cook anything you can make it taste good but why not take the fish that are incredibly easy to cook.
Katie
And easy to catch.
Landon
Right and I don't like I don't like cleaning big fish, like even walleye. I don't like to keep anything over like really 17-18 inches. The bigger ones, I don't like to eat as much. They're not as thick. They are way thicker so they don't like cook as evenly.
Katie
I don't know.
Landon
The little ones are good.
Katie
How do you usually cook your fish?
Landon
Man, all different kinds of ways. If I could only cook them one way, honestly, I'd probably pick like deep frying them and eating them with tartar sauce because it's just so good You can't go wrong. Right? but I Try to get creative with it So I do usually keep a steelhead or two a year and with those all I've you know I've like baked them different ways Sometimes I a lot of times I just kind of make up crazy recipes but I'll make like a Like a teriyaki sauce from scratch just with honey and What's the other ingredient for teriyaki? soy sauce and mix that together and Marinate it with some some seasonings and stuff in there and then pan fry it not pan fry it but cook it in the pan And that's really good. That's probably one of my favorite ways to eat eat steelhead, but But, and then I make a lot of fish tacos out of, last year I had caught a bunch of white fish around this time of year and they're delicious. They do have some fat and stuff you have to clean off of portions of them, but it's really good. A lot of people just smoke them. I really like, I'd smoke something else. I'd smoke a steelhead before I'd smoke a white fish, honestly, but yeah, fish tacos I made a lot last year those are super easy.
Katie
So when you say you cut the fat off is that the kind of fat that like makes them taste muddy?
Landon
I'd say more fishy. I'd say fishy. You know like any fish really has like you know like the red line of fat that goes down their vertebrae and I always cut that off even even on walleye if they're if it's kind of thick I'll even cut it out. Okay. Just because that's where that really like oily, oily flashes and the oils is really what contains most of that fish flavor. And if you're not like, if you know some people are like, "Oh I don't really like fish." And then they eat my fish tacos and they're like, "Okay those are those are pretty good."
Katie
Yeah fish is one of those flavors it's like I really like the taste of fish but the moment it crosses that line of too much, too much tasting like fish it's like terrible. It's not a flavor you want in excess.
Landon
Right, yeah. like salmon out of the Great Lakes you really got to get all the fat off them because they're fishier in my opinion than the salmon that are from saltwater. I've had salmon even like salmon that's fresh it's silver out of Lake Michigan that just it didn't taste good even when he did clean it right. I still ate it but it was like hmm that wasn't the best salmon I've ever had.
Katie
I've never heard of a comparison between Great Lakes salmon and saltwater salmon. So it's good to know. I wonder what causes that
Landon
Probably their diet I would say and I think just the saltwater in general. I don't I don't know about you but I Think saltwater fish in general is better.
Katie
I agree. Yeah,
Landon
I Haven't had too many Saltwater fish that weren't good Come to think of it.
Katie
Yeah, and I guess I might be biased in that the only saltwater fish I've really had I've gotten like at a store and I think they're not gonna sell the you know If there's a gross saltwater fish out there They're not gonna sell it at the store Whereas freshwater fish usually have more access because like you might know someone who caught one so I might have had a wider variety of freshwater fish than saltwater fish, but I'd agree that in general I think the saltwater fish tastes better. Is a steelhead similar to just like a rainbow trout in its flesh or is it more like a salmon?
Landon
It can kind of depend on when you catch them so They're they're similar to a salmon in the way that when they come out of the lake they're fresher Yeah and then as they're in the river longer their their meat kind of loses its color if you If you catch like a really colored up buck that's that's been in the river since fall and it's now April and he's just almost black You really probably don't want to keep that fish in the air. Their flesh gets like really light colored So yeah, they are similar in that way.
Katie
Okay So tell me about your work with BHA
Landon
Yeah, so I am on the board for backcountry hunters and anglers here in Michigan which For anybody that doesn't know in short is the the voice of public lands a nonprofit organization which has a simple but you know a Complex goal of protecting public land for really anybody So it's hunters and anglers that are a part of the group mostly But they're protecting public land that anybody can go enjoy from you know, mountain biking hiking walking their dog So it's it's a great program because We're really lucky to have the public lands that we have especially, you know in some states Western states, Michigan has tons of public land and a Lot of people take that for granted and don't realize that it costs a lot of money. So anytime something costs money there's politics around it and there is a very real possibility of big chunks of land, you know going up for sale and and Never being open to the public again. So the goal is to Protect public land and we do I help mostly with like events and stuff that we're putting on around in the state I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to like, you know, what legislations are going through Which is which is actually why I got involved with BHA is because they make it really easy to understand different bills and how they affect, you know outdoorsmen and what you know, what the long-term effects of that could be so It helps me to quickly identify like okay. This is a good bill or maybe I need to look into this one a little bit more and then Usually it also makes it really easy to contact the people that you need to talk to to oppose it You know, you can call all these different elected elected officials depending on on what the issue is and what your concern is Or maybe maybe it's something you're supporting and you want to voice that too But who do you call right? Usually if there's a specific issue They have a link that will take you to the exact person that you need to talk to If it's within your district wherever it might be you can call them email them and have a conversation with these people. And I think that's one cool thing that I've actually learned through BHA is like there are people out there and their job is to actually listen to the public. You know a lot of people think, "Oh the government's not gonna do what I want." And sometimes they don't do exactly what you want but there are people there that are actually taking your opinion into account.
Katie
Yeah I agree.
Landon
It does matter.
Katie
Yeah I'm always surprised because I agree with you in that BHA kind of opened my eyes to how accessible my representatives were and like you said kind of understanding these bills that you You know, it's much easier to care when it's written out in plain English versus whatever jargon they were using before
Landon
Right
Katie
but I'm always really surprised when I cuz you know, I'll use their you know forms or whatever to send in a message to my representatives and I always get a message back from them. I mean it might be a like a form email that they've sent to everybody who was on my side of the fence but it is definitely catered to what I said it's not just a form email like thanks for contacting us it is a I appreciate you reaching out about this specific issue, here are my thoughts, on this issue and I'm gonna be serving your best interest so yeah I always am really surprised when I find out how accessible people are
Landon
mm-hmm yeah and like you there are you know open office times you can go in and actually talk to those people face-to-face. You can call them. I wasn't aware. I guess I always knew you could do that. I just didn't know how easy it could be.
Katie
Yeah. Same. I feel like we should probably switch over and talk about your podcast since that's how I came across you. If you just want to give like an elevator pitch and maybe we can dive into what you've done so far and what season two has in store maybe.
Landon
Yeah, so I have I've been slacking a little bit and I've not put out any new episodes. I've been recording some but life has been incredibly busy for this past summer especially and then into the fall. And I've got some good content coming out for sure. I'm excited about season two. I've got some new ideas. Honestly, so I want to make the podcast something that other people enjoy and they want to listen to and Listening to a lot of people's feedback. They wanted to hear more of the same more of the same things that I've already done So we're gonna do a lot more steelhead and a lot more trout and a lot more smallmouth Actually, I want to do a lot more smallmouth this year because we didn't really cover smallmouth much last year But that's what really people are asking for so I'm gonna try to do a lot of that type of content But I'm still gonna mix it up to and and do some different podcasts on you know, weird random things like last year We went on vacation to Panama and did like a saltwater trip with a guide and that was really fun. So there'll be there'll be things like that again, too but as for why I started the podcast I I got into listening to podcasts not all that long ago, maybe like four years. I'd heard of them, but I kind of was just like, "Eh, sounds weird. Why would I want to listen to a podcast? What's that all about?" I don't know. I'm one of those people, anything new comes out and I kind of oppose it for a while until I realize it's something worth getting on board with. I listened to a lot of podcast. And then I had listened to different fishing podcasts but I just I couldn't find one that I really liked. Like I was like well I like you know some of this one and some of that one but really what I was looking for is variety in one show because even though I spend a lot of my time fishing for different things I'm always thinking like man it'd be fun to go catch this kind of fish or I'd love to go to this location. So learning about all those places was in different types of fish was really the inspiration for for starting the podcast because I figured you know what if there's not a podcast that gives me exactly what I'm looking for I can just start one and cover all those different topics that I would think is interesting and you know I know there's a lot of other multi-species anglers out there that think like myself. So even though it's a podcast that covers a wide range of topics, I don't think it's for everyone. It's still kind of a niche in a way because some people are only into fly fishing, so they don't really care about conventional. Or some people are only saltwater, so they don't care about anything freshwater. And that's great. Fishing is all about spending time outdoors and and enjoying it and whatever it is that drives you to go out there and do that, whether it be one species, one method, that's great, but I just fall into that multi-species category. So that's who I would say the target audience is. I think there's a lot of great episodes that if you're a streamer fisherman or trout fisherman, then you would probably listen to that one and maybe skip the other episodes. There's a lot of hunting podcasts where I do that, where it's like, oh, you know, I don't really hunt hill country in Vermont, so I'm gonna skip this episode 'cause there's nothing really to learn here. If I go there someday, maybe I'll go back and do this. But yeah, I guess that tells you a little bit about the podcast and why I started it and what's coming up. It's been a lot of fun though. I've met really cool people through it so far and made some some good friends and that's that's always a plus because the people that you spend your time with are kind of Kind of determines how your life is if you're surrounded by good people and usually life's good.
Katie
So yeah for sure. I feel like with a podcast like yours, so when I first found your podcast, I I really liked the kind of attitude you had around it where she's like look, I don't want to categorize anything I just like catching fish and like you said, that's almost a niche in itself when it sounds it sounds very general But most people aren't that general most people kind of focus in on one technique or another And when I first heard that I was like, I don't know if this is for me because I do mostly fly fish now But then I really I listened to a couple episodes and I was like, you know what a I grew up not fly-fishing and so it you know I understand what you're talking about and I can relate to it but also there's so many aspects of fishing that don't have anything to do with the technique you're using I mean 80% of the the battle is just finding a fish and knowing how that fish is going to behave and what it's looking for and at that point you know how you present that you know bait or fly to the fish is just the last little bit getting to the fish and and reading the water and understanding what this fish is looking for is most of the battle. And to hear a podcast that might not be the specific technique I want to use might still give me a ton of information about that species and what that species is looking for at any given time of year.
Landon
Yeah, no, I would agree with that 100%. And sometimes it's the little puzzle pieces that I took from this puzzle but they somehow fit into the other puzzle I was trying to solve. You know like things that I've learned spin fishing have definitely helped me be a better fly angler. Or somebody might be talking about a specific species that I've never fished for and they point out something that that fish did and like that why they do this and I realize oh that's why this other species I fish for does that same thing or you know at least points in the right direction fishing fishing is like a puzzle that you'll never never quite finish and there's a bunch of pieces missing anyways
Katie
For sure and if you if you exclude if you deliberately exclude a bunch of different techniques you're basically leaving those puzzle pieces out and trying to solve the puzzle at them when you could when you could totally use them you're to your advantage even if you don't want to partake in that specific activity. I feel like that whenever I'm trying to explain kind of reading water to people you know you know and you've been fishing long enough and you can look at a river and you just like know what spots look fishy you can't even say like why you're just like there's a fish in there and I feel like that you know all that knowledge that I have was gained fishing for smallmouths but it's like I can still use it for fly fishing for trout out here. Completely different water, different species, but I can still look at a river and be like that's a fishy spot even if I can't explain it. So I think yeah having that generalist mentality it's just I think more people need to be open to that.
Landon
I agree yeah yeah they're just the more different areas you dip your toes into you know that's just more information for whatever else you're gonna go out and chase the next time.
Katie
Right. Have you found any species in Michigan that you never target on the fly because like for example I know a lot of people don't fish for like walleye on the fly because they you know they hang down real low and it's just a little harder than some of the other species but do you have any species that you're like this is the only technique I use and not even just fly but like where you only use one technique?
Landon
I mean I would say with salmon I pretty much only like go trolling out in the big lake for them so I've got friends and relatives that have boats and you just go out there and drop lines down and drive around. I just I don't do much river fishing for salmon so that's that's one example of one technique I would use. As far as fly fishing goes, that's so you know that's kind of a new venture for me still. So there's a whole bunch of fish I'd like to catch on a fly I'd say is the bigger problem. I probably wouldn't try to catch a sturgeon on the fly.
Katie
Fair enough.
Landon
I've never caught a sturgeon at all though. I'd love to. It's definitely on my bucket list.
Katie
Do you know how you fish for sturgeon?
Landon
I don't know much about it. Just to warn everyone. There's different ways to do it though I know and like a lot of people will go over to like the St. Clair River where it goes into Lake St. Clair and it's like super deep out there it's like a hundred feet deep or something crazy I don't know I'm making that up but it is really deep and you just drop like lines with some type of bait down to the bottom and just kind of sit there and weight like like fishing for catfish I guess. So it doesn't sound like that much fun from a fishing standpoint but the catching standpoint would I think make up for that.
Katie
Yeah I'm sure once you hook one. I wonder how often you hook one though.
Landon
I don't I don't think it's something you go out and expect to catch several in a night. I think if you go out and get one or two that's a good night.
Katie
Okay, maybe similar to like musky fishing.
Landon
Yeah, yeah I'm not a hundred percent sure but it would a low numbers gain. Okay. That I do know.
Katie
Have you caught or at least gone fishing for the grayling that have been reintroduced to Michigan? I know very little about it but I know that they were trying to reintroduce grayling to Michigan.
Landon
Yeah so I don't I don't think last I knew they not planted them. So I have not. And they have tried to plant grayling in Michigan before and it failed. So they're trying this completely new method where I think they're raising the eggs and then they're putting them in cages in the river at first and then letting them out. I don't know. I can't remember all the details. I have read about it quite a bit but it's been a little while since I looked into it. So no, I haven't got to do that yet but I definitely would give it a try. If they open up I almost feel like they should not even allow fishing at first. Close that section of river and try to get them started.
Katie
Because they were there before, right? Do you happen to know why they have been failing? Like putting them back in their native waters?
Landon
Well a lot, I mean so much has changed in Michigan since they were in the rivers. There's not any one exact thing that they can say this, this is what caused them to go extinct in Michigan. I think it was a whole bunch of different factors. Logging was a huge one. So I mean they went through and I mean they clear cut most of Michigan a couple of times and as I'm sure you know that does all kinds of terrible things to rivers and raises water temperatures and puts a bunch of sediment in the river. So their natural ecosystems that they were living in changed greatly. And then the other big thing is is Michigan used to pretty much be mostly swamp. Like it was most of even the farm country was very, very swampy, but due to all the irrigation, they've really kind of drained most of it. So I don't think the water is of the quality that it used to be almost anywhere.
Katie
I see.
Landon
And they introduced so many different species. Now salmon, they didn't introduce until way after the grayling were gone. But they did introduce brown trout in almost every river in Michigan by the early 1900s to mid 1900s. And they live in the same streams and brown trout are typically the dominant species around here if they're in a river system. You'll get some pike and stuff in the rivers with them, But I would say for the most part, the main predator is brown trout that are residents, at least, in many of those rivers. And yeah, I think so much just changed. They just couldn't make it anymore after their habitat was gone, competition for breeding areas, I'm sure.
Katie
Yeah, it seems like the brown trout, pretty much everywhere been tend to start to dominate wherever they've been planted. I mean they can coexist especially with like rainbows but you don't I feel like you don't see a lot of brown trout with sensitive species.
Landon
Yeah yeah that's that's true like where I brook trout fish it's very rare to catch a brown trout and vice versa. There are some rivers that you can go and catch a brown and a rainbow and a brookie and all in the same day but those are you know rare and special rivers.
Katie
Yeah for sure. We've got a spot out here that has grayling and it's grayling and cutthroat and they seem to coexist pretty easily but cutthroat I feel like are in the same boat where they're like they're the first to go if anything else is introduced so it kind of seems like the grayling and the cutthroat are like bottom of the totem pole. They can survive together but neither one would would probably make it if a more aggressive species were introduced.
Landon
Do they spawn in the spring?
Katie
I have no idea.I want to say spring because there and I could be totally wrong about that but there's a the spot that I fished for them before I believe there's a closed time that is around the time I went and I think I went in June so I would assume that spawning had happened just prior to that but I could be totally off base.
Landon
Somebody will have to write in and tell us.
Katie
I'm sure someone's pulling their hair out. Well, do you want to share where people can find you and your podcast if they want to check it out?
Landon
Yeah, so the podcast is a super creative name the Fishing Podcast So if you go to the fishing podcast comm that's got all the episodes posted on their very basic website But it's got every episode on there so you can click that and go to the different It doesn't, I mean, honestly, there's so many places that you can listen to podcasts. People tell me, they're like, "Oh, I listened to it on this app." And I've honestly never heard of it. The program I use just broadcasts it out to all the channels I'm assuming the same way yours does. And pretty much if there's a app that has podcasts on it and you look up the fishing podcast, it should be there. If it's not, definitely let me know 'cause I'd be interested in making sure everybody can listen to it. But I'm on Instagram. Instagram's probably the best place to get a hold of me. I spend more time on there than anywhere. And Instagram is the fishing podcast as well.
Katie
All right. And do you happen to know when season two's starting?
Landon
Very soon. I told somebody I would definitely get an episode out before the end of the month here. So it's November 19th today. So I've got a handful of good ones. I'm just trying to kind of decide what's gonna come first in the flow of it for the kind of the season. I wanna try to keep things a little bit more seasons based this year. So like, for example, I've got a small mouth episode recorded right now, but I think I wanna release that like in June. So there'll probably be a lot of steelhead stuff coming out here. and then I wanna get some more ice fishing episodes. So, 'cause that's one of the things I've done all my life. I'm no expert at sometimes I catch some fish, sometimes I don't, I don't really know why. So I'm interested in maybe becoming a little bit better ice fisherman too. So yeah, very soon before the end of the month and then it will probably be a weekly thing until summer of next year. And then I think I'll probably take another break to focus on fishing, really. (laughing) I started fishing last when I made the podcast because in the summer, I don't, where we're at in Michigan, we're so close to the time zone change that in the summertime it stays light here until like 10 o'clock.
Katie
Oh, really?
Landon
So in the summer I'd fish a lot after work because you can, I mean, if you get out of work a little bit early, fish for four or five hours in the daylight.
Katie
Yeah that's a it's a hack for fishermen just live right on the time zone line.
Landon
Yeah and you know you go to Chicago it's really not that far west of us and it gets dark an hour early there almost.
Katie
Yeah I've noticed because I've been trying to balance you know trying to keep up with a podcast as well as fishing but I just try to make sure all my podcasts are on weekdays especially in the winter because I'm like I'm not I get off working and it's dark in an hour I got a cram all in during the week so at least I have the weekends to go out.
Landon
I know if I was more motivated I would probably try to record all of them in the winter because you really don't have too much else to do. You can ice fish in the dark but that's a hassle.
Katie
Yeah, you could just save it till summertime. Alright, well Landon, thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it and happy to learn about all the different techniques that you've used.
Landon
Yeah, it was great being on. It was good conversation I really enjoyed it so if you ever get to Michigan let me know.
Katie
I will I've got plenty of people to go see over there I feel like you guys have so many hunters and fishermen in Michigan.
Landon
Yeah lots of good fishing too. I'll definitely definitely point you in the right direction.
Katie
Alright well thanks so much and have a good night.
Landon
Thanks have a good one.
Katie
Alright and that'll do it as always if you liked what you heard go ahead and go over to the Wild Initiative podcast. You can subscribe there and get my episodes every Thursday as well as all of Sam's other episodes throughout the week. You can find my episodes on fishuntamed.com in addition to weekly backcountry fly fishing articles and you can find me on social media under fishuntamed on Instagram or my name Katie Burgert on go wild and I will see you same time same place next week.
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