Ep 109: Completing a Troutwoman, with Katie Mazzia
Katie Mazzia and I met at the Flyathlon many years ago and became fast friends. She is much more of a runner than I, and she recently completed her first Troutwoman, which included 26.2 miles of running, 3000 feet of elevation gain, four species of fish, and a 12% beer in under 12 hours. In this episode, she told me the story of her Troutwoman completion, how she prepared for it, and what she usually brings on her fishing trail runs.
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Katie K
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 109 with Katie Mazzia on completing a Troutwoman. Great. Well, I start every episode getting a background on my guests. And I realized that over the years that I've talked to you, I don't actually really know how you got into fly fishing or running. So tell me how you got into the outdoors and into fly fishing and trail running.
Katie M
Well, we could start with trail running because that came first. Although I was a runner when I was about 13 and then I ran cross country in high school and I was in Columbus, Ohio. So I never ran a trail. And then when I graduated college, when I was 23, I moved out to Colorado and that's, then it was like the opposite. Then I just ran trails all the time. And then I was running marathons, like road marathons back in Columbus. And so when I came out here, I was interested in trail running and ultras and kind of got into that. And so always loved running, always loved the outdoors, hiking, you know, ski club, just anything outdoors all day long. And so Colorado was awesome for that when we moved out here with some friends. And then I always spin fish growing up and I didn't get into fly fishing until my son got into it. So I learned from him. He was 13. I gave him a, like an Orvis kit, like for Christmas, he was in the outdoors and he literally self-taught himself and then got so obsessed and into it that he got into it competitively and then he was young. So I had to go with him and then I ended up loving it too.
Katie K
Well, that's good. I mean, at least you like both fell in love with the same activity.
Katie M
yeah took me a while to I don't tie my own flies because I just steal them from him and I it took me a while to be self-sufficient I would say it took me like a year to really feel like oh I'm gonna go by myself or I can tie if you know tie this fly on my line and yeah it took a while
Katie K
so how did he get into it like if if you didn't do it did you just get him this like on a whim? Like, oh, let's just get him this fly around and see what happens.
Katie M
Yes. Yes. Because he had a lot of outdoor stuff. I mean, he was born and raised in Colorado and we live a block away from Brush Creek. So it seemed just like a fun thing for him to do. And he really, he really got into it. Yeah.
Katie K
And so how long ago was that?
Katie M
That was like 10, 10, 11 years ago. Yeah. 10 years ago,
Katie K
I would say 10 years ago. You and I have been fly fishing about the same amount of time. I think I'm on year 11 or yeah, 11 or 12 now. So we must've started around the same time.
Katie M
Well, I didn't even start. I think.
Katie K
Oh, that was just him. Okay.
Katie M
That was just him. I would just like drive him to go and bring the dog and hang out. I don't think I even caught like my first fly fish. I mean, my first fish on a fly rod until, I don't know, maybe a couple of years later, but I would say it's been a good year, a good eight years because Vail Valley Anglers has a women's group up here and it's just called Women on the Fly. So one of the guides, Eric, would organize women and we would go out, just felt real comfortable teaching us. And I remember my first fish I caught was like, you know, like six inches. And, it was, it was really fun. So I kind of wanted to learn on my own a little bit in addition to going with Jack.
Katie K
So tell me how you go from being a, a runner to an ultra runner. Like, I don't know what is entailed in like the training for that. Um, cause I don't, I also don't really know how far like a cross country runner would run in high school. Um, but I have to imagine it's not as long as what you're running these days. Is that correct?
Katie M
Yeah. I mean, and I, I, I think I'm old now. I'm like an old trail runner. When I was, when I was running cross country, honestly, I hated Hills and you know, we wouldn't run any more than three miles. And then when I was a senior, my, our coach got all of our cross country team to run a marathon, to run the Columbus marathon. Like we all ran together. We trained when we were young and then I got kind of hooked on that distance. And then when I moved out to Colorado. So anything longer than a marathon is considered an ultra distance. So they were just everywhere here. I mean, you know, a lot of different races, really fun people, all different walks of life. And then I just, if you can run a marathon, you can run a 50K, you know, you could run 30 miles. It's not that much longer. So I just, you know, you hike a lot too. You're not running in the whole time. And so I think the training for it is just being on your feet unless you, you know, and having fun and going out there and just being outdoors for hours at a time. So you have to like that.
Katie K
What is the longest race you've run?
Katie M
50. So that's the longest race I've run is 50.
Katie K
50K or 50 miles?
Katie M
Oh, 50 miles, 50 miles. So that's the longest. And I've never fished during a 50 miler. You know, that was all pre fishing, never thought of it until I got involved, you know, with the Flyathlons. And now it's so great because you can you can use train, you can train and fish and you don't have to be so serious about it. It's really just being outside outdoors all day and enjoying what you do. So I've paced a lot of people at night in the middle of the night. People who run 100-mile races, I've paced them. I'm like a resident pacer, but I really had no desire to run 100. I didn't think I would do well running 100 miles.
Katie K
So you think that's out for you? You're not going to attempt that at any point?
Katie M
I don't. Maybe 60 when I'm 60, like 100K.
Katie K
Work your way up the Flyathlon ladder, You know, the Troutman, the Ultrout, and all the way up to the, I think the FinSanity is the new one at 100 miles.
Katie M
The Fin Sanity, I think, is the 60.
Katie K
No, that's the Lucifish.
Katie M
Oh, Lucifish.
Katie K
The 66.6 miler.
Katie M
66, right? Yeah. 0.6? Yeah. Okay, maybe that's my next goal.
Katie K
Okay. So that one seems like within your sights.
Katie M
Maybe.
Katie K
Okay, so tell me about your recent Troutman. I know you've attempted multiple recently. I don't know how many you finished. I know you finished at least one. So tell me what your recent Troutman experiences have been.
Katie M
Yeah, my percentage of finishing is kind of low. It's like 30, 33 percent. So I've done. And then when I talk to Brian, of course, he's like, oh, I did seven of them before I finished my first. But he's always training, right, for like 100 milers. So I had done two before I completed Troutwoman. So I attempted one. There was women in the Weminuche forest and it was in October and none of us got Troutman or Troutwoman for 38 miles.
Katie K
What was the problem? Was it the brookie?
Katie M
The brookie because it was, it was up high and it was frozen over and we're like out there in the middle of nowhere. And it was really cold. It was really long and none of us got it. And it was, you know, it was October. So it was a little late, you know, great, great, nice day, beautiful day. So that was the first one. And like, that's one of the coolest runs I've ever done in the back country, part of the continental or divide trail. And you pass that and you're in the middle of nowhere with people. I don't like to be alone in the back country. I like to be with people. So then the second one I attempted was, down in Westcliffe and that was last year. And it was the only weekend in September that was a torrential downpour, like the worst weather ever. Get up to 12K and it's people are freezing. We're trying to catch cutties and caught a cutty. And, you know, that's the first goal. And then Christine and Craig and Andrew had done it before. And they're like, oh, it's so easy. We got it. They did it in July. And that was a failed attempt because I couldn't catch a brookie. It was raining. I kind of gave up. Even though I think I'm mentally strong, I just, I was kind of over it. And so, and I didn't think I had enough food, even though I know better. And so that one was a failed attempt. And then, then in June, that's when I completed the Trout Woman.
Katie K
This, this June of this year?
Katie M
June of this year.
Katie K
Okay.
Katie M
Yeah. So there was a couple of years where we didn't do anything because of COVID too.
Katie K
Okay. So I want to hear about the Troutman itself. And then I also want to kind of pick your brain about like how you went about planning for it. So first, just tell me how it went. You know, the fishing, the running, everything about it. And then we'll go into the planning because that I feel like is part of the difficulty.
Katie M
Yeah. I mean, it's like I said, if you enjoy hiking all day in the woods and you've hiked 15 to 18 miles, anybody could do that and complete the 26 miles. Really, I think just having that confidence of that time on your feet that you don't have to do 26 miles or 30 miles to complete 26. It really just being like other people who know that, like I know that and being like a good cheerleader for other people. But we, again, woke up on a Saturday, June 17th. It was Father's Day weekend and just raining and we were in Eagle. So we were going to Sylvan Lake. That was our destination was Troutman, Troutwoman at Sylvan Lake because they stocked it with cutties and there's rainbows and brookies in there.
Katie K
Oh, that's like a lucky find.
Katie M
A lucky find. And then and then because I live 15 minutes from here, I know where the brown trout are. So I had like pre-flagged some places where the brown trout were to help people in their success. If they were, you know, could just it makes it easier. Right. the Intel, I think makes it a lot easier. So we, we were a little late getting up to Sylvan Lake because it was raining and we're like, ah, no rush. And we started like 7, 15, 7, 20. And then it just starts dumping rain. And we dispersed around Sylvan Lake. It's about a mile and a half around Sylvan Lake. And it's beautiful up there. It was like really fun to have people up here and see this part of Colorado because I'm usually driving to, you know, other places. So we all kind of dispersed and people were catching fish right away, you know, mostly rainbows. And I was like, I'm going to go off the dock, you know, and people were going around where I was like, go to the left, there's fish over there. And there was six of us, I think, or seven that started. And then it was crazy, like 45 minutes, not even 45 minutes later, I couldn't believe it, but I, I had a leech on and I was just like kind of threw it out and was just slowly jigging it back. And then I had a cutty on. And I mean, I was like, is this really a cutty? There's no way I just caught a cutty because that was going to be the hardest fish to catch because they did stalk them. But who knows if you were going to catch one, right?
Katie K
You can't guarantee anything really.
Katie M
I mean, there's a bunch of fish swimming around in that lake. So I was like, what? And then I'm like, is this a cut bow? I took a picture of it and I didn't tell anybody. Like I just, I was like, oh my God, I caught a cutie. Now I have to run. Now I have to go for it, you know? And, and.
Katie K
So did you not expect to catch one or did you just take so long that you'd have to give up?
Katie M
Didn't, didn't expect to catch one because I had been up there like over the past month. I had been up there in May and we caught a bunch. Jack and I did for Mother's Day. We always go up to Sylvan Lake and fish. But then I had been up there frequently and hadn't caught any cuties in between for a whole month. So we just thought like, ah, we'll try it. We'll go have fun. But you're right. The cutty was going to be the hardest fish we thought to catch. And so then there was another guy fishing, Kevin. Did you ever meet Kevin yet?
Katie K
Name sounds familiar.
Katie M
He lives in Ouray. Oh, actually, I don't think he's come to any Flyathlons yet. I think he's just done Troutman.
Katie K
Maybe I've seen his name on the website or something
Katie M
but yeah you may have like seen his name because he's on there so he drove up from Ouray and he's like on the other side of the lake and comes up and he's like I got a I got a rainbow a brookie and a cutty all on the same fight in the same area three different casts like in 10 minutes and we're like what I mean so then he started his journey up running like a lot earlier than I did I I, after I caught my cutthroat, I went over to Andrew and I verified, I was like, is this really a cutty? Like, I mean, I knew it was, but I just couldn't believe it. So then he's like, yes. And then I caught a rainbow and then it started. So you go around the lake one and a half times. That was like our plan the whole time. And then you, then we, then the route was like going up this 414 road that you were going to get about 1500 elevation gain and about five miles. So not too bad, like, you know, longer distance with that gain. And then, so I was like, all right, I'm going to start going up guys. Like it was like, you know, two hours later. And I was like, I'm going to start heading up. And I expected people to follow me, you know, like even if those guys didn't catch a fish they still could have caught a cutty later on right oh they could have done the whole run come back at five o'clock or whatever because you have 12 hours and fished just yeah they caught their cutty right so they could have said okay I gotta get on my run but it started dumping rain sleeting and I mean you know because you fish I had the sims guide three jacket on like a heavy, super waterproof jacket, not like a breathable, lightweight jacket and shorts. And I hardly ever wear shorts when I'm doing like, I'll wear like capris or wool capris. And I know this area really well because I've run back there a lot. So even though I said I like doing things with people, I knew this route and I was like, all right, I just dig deep. I know where I'm going. And, it was like, I described as like a super spooky run because it was just sleeting and raining and dark. And even Kevin, who was ahead of me, like by several hours was say, we were doing the same thing. Like, Oh, Hey bear. Hey bear. Like the whole way up to McKinsey's Gulch. And so that took a while to get up there. And I didn't know was behind me or not. I just thought, oh, those guys are behind me. And then I get up to McKinsey's, the top of McKinsey's Gulch. And then you come down about three miles to the dirt road and water was just like running down the trail. But I felt okay because I know where I am. There's no cell service or anything, but I know where I am and I know they know where I'm at. So I was about 13 miles in at the bottom of the trail, I think, maybe a little bit more. And then Andrew and Cole were in the car waiting for me at the bottom of the trail to make sure Kevin and I got down okay.
Katie K
So they didn't even attempt going up?
Katie M
No It was just Kevin and I who attempted. So then when I saw them, they're like, well, you're not going to say hi? And I'm like, oh my gosh, I thought you guys were behind me. I had no backup. I did that the whole, you know, and they're like, are you all right? And I was like, yep, I got to go. I got to go get my brown trout. So then, you know, about two miles down the road, caught my brown about, I don't know, I got tangled up. It took me like a total, I think, at least 30 minutes to like re-rig and I lost the first brown and I know where this area is. It's a tiny little creek. It's West Brush Creek, tiny. And then I see Kevin run by. And Kevin's like, oh, you got your brown? I was like, no, I'm getting it right now. He's like, I got everything. And he was like headed back up to Sylvan, you know, like to finish. I'm like, I don't know, six and a half hours. Like he was way ahead of me. And then Andrew and Cole were like, okay, you all right? And I was like, I'm good. I'm like, here, I'm so hot. Take my jacket. It was sunny out. Andrew's like, no, no, you're going to need your jacket. The clouds are coming. So then no more than like a half hour later, it starts dumping rain. I got my brown trout. So I had my brown, I had my rainbow and my cutty. So I just needed a brookie. So torrential down par up the road, back up to Sylvan. Because I have to catch a brookie. And that's where I'm going to catch a brookie in the lake.
Katie K
And what time is it at this point? How much time do you have to get this brookie?
Katie M
I mean, from when I caught my brown trout, I still had a while. I mean, I can't remember like the exact time, but it must have been like one o'clock.
Katie K
I mean, like how long did you have 10 minutes to catch this trout or did you have like hours to catch the trout?
Katie M
I had hours.
Katie K
Okay.
Katie M
But I still had to run pretty far.
Katie K
How much? So how far?
Katie M
So I still had to run like 10 miles more. Yeah, I still had to run 10 to 12 miles longer and catch a brookie. So I wasn't like stressed because I got my brown, but, you know, I was kind of like, all right, I'll catch a brookie. But, you know, like Cole had caught a bunch of brookies like right away, like at nine in the morning, but Andrew hadn't caught any and Randy hadn't caught any. Like, so I was like, oh my gosh, brookies are really usually easy to catch at Sylvan Lake. So I was kind of like, all right. So I started running up the road for a little while, like two miles before I cut in to go on Brush Creek Lake, or I guess you call it like Brush Creek Trail, Sylvan Lake. There's like a trail in the woods. It's beautiful. So, but you ran the road a little bit to get to that, to cut into that trail. Torrential downpour, like six cars asked me and they're like, do you need a ride? Do you need a ride? I'm like, no, I'm doing a race. Like, I got this. I kind of feel like we should have bibs on so people know.
Katie K
Yeah.
Katie M
We should have Troutman, Troutwoman bibs or something. But so then I cut into the single track and that's to get the elevation gain because I still had to get at that point. I still had to get like another. I was probably at, oh, I don't know, 1500. I was about 15. No, I had to be more because I did 1500 on the way up, down. I was probably at 1700 vertical.
Katie K
You need 3,000 total?
Katie M
And you have to do 3,000 total. So I took the trail because it's steeper, but it's harder. Like knowing now what I know, I probably just would have taken the road because, you know, it would have been easier. But then I get out of the trail and I see, you know, it had stopped raining and it was really nice. It was like 4.30. No, not 4.30. It was probably 4 o'clock at that point. So I still hadn't caught. I had to catch the brookie and I had to run another, I had to run another seven miles.
Katie K
And you've got what, like three hours?
Katie M
I had three hours. So I was like, okay. And then I had to get the vertical too. So I go, I'm kind of stressed. I was like, shit. I changed, I changed reels. So I had, I just, I only know how to Euronymph. I don't have a straight like floating line. I don't know how to fish like that.
Katie K
Is this what you've been doing this whole time?
Katie M
Whole time.
Katie K
I had no idea
Katie M
Yeah. The whole time. I only know how to Euro nymph. Okay. Yeah. I only have a Euro leader. I usually have a 10 foot three weight, but I had my Euro leader on, I had my reel and my Euro leader on an eight foot four weight. It was the trout classic, you know, you know, Redington classic. I don't fish nice stuff.
Katie K
I don't either.
Katie M
I know. I like all hand-me-downs. So, but I like it. So I was fishing the Redington trout classic. I think it's like almost an eight foot four weight. And I had my Euro line on there. So, but I had a reel with a floating line and a sink tip that Jack had set up for me. And I was kind of like enjoying lake fishing with that. So I tied a leech on and, you know, cause you can get that way out there. Cause a floating line with the sink tip, it's much different obviously than the Euro leader. So I throw that out there and I didn't catch anything by the dock and Christine was there fishing and she's like, oh, I just caught a bunch of brookies. You'll get one. Nothing, nothing, nothing. Just dipping it in, you know, nothing. And it had gotten really nice. The weather had like really perked up and it was beautiful. So then I go halfway around the lake to where this beaver dam, not dam, it's just like a mound of sticks and caught another brookie. Oh no, I caught another rainbow. I caught another cutty of all things. And I was like, oh my gosh. So I don't know. I just threw it out. I just, I had a leech on with a, like an orange bead. And I was just, I wasn't even doing anything fancy. I was just kind of jigging it. I was just jigging it and, you know. And then, oh, caught a big brookie, like a nice brookie. I was like, oh my God. So, and Kevin was there with me and somebody else was there. And so then I was like, oh, I got it. I got him. I got my fish.
Katie K
Do you have a panic moment when you saw that it was a brook trout that you were going to like lose it? I feel like sometimes when I have fish that I've been trying to catch on, it's like the whole moment is tense until it's in your net. as soon as you see what it is.
Katie M
I know. Don't you feel that way when you're doing the flyathlon? You're like, ah. Yes. I'm like, don't let it get off.
Katie K
Don't let it get away.
Katie M
I know. And then I become like, I mean, I don't know what. I just like, everything goes out the window when Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. You're like, I know how to do this. But it's, I think I was like holding my breath and I was like, all right, all right. Remember like what Jack tells you, like get it on the reel. Just get it on the reel. don't let the rod tip go down. And, you know, I was just praying because I use 6X. Oh, that's what I use is 6X. But I had 4X on because I was using that, you know, a floating line with the leader. So I just think that was lucky that I got the brookie, but they're there. And I got it in the net. And then I was like, phew. So I still had at that point, so I ran around the lake and then I still had like six miles and 800 vertical to go. With how much time left? And I, I, at that point, like I still had, cause I finished in nine hours and 50 minutes.
Katie K
So, but you, like, I feel like that's a nice place to be. Cause you know, you have your fish to all you to do. Like if you look at the time and you know, you've got, you finished with over two hours left. It's easy to think, okay, I can run like six miles in two hours. Like that's not a problem. Like I assume there must be like a stress relief when you realize all you have to do is just like finish. I think if you get your fish in 10 minutes, who cares you have to run 26 miles? Put your headphones on, some good music.
Katie M
Yeah, like it's just a matter of doing it. Chill out, get some snacks, walk, pace yourself. Yeah. I think that's the best case scenario for sure. I mean, because I wasn't worried after that. It was a relief. You know, I kind of like was celebrating inside and I couldn't believe.
Katie K
Like you knew you were going to do it at that point. Barring like a broken leg or something, like you know you're going to do it.
Katie M
Yeah, exactly. You know you're going to do it.
Katie K
Have you had your beer yet?
Katie M
My beer now?
Katie K
No, no, no. Like during the Troutman, I see that you have your beer now.
Katie M
I'm drinking my beer right now.
Katie K
Yeah, just checking in, just making sure you still have that.
Katie M
No, because you drink the beer as part of your time.
Katie K
I know, but I just wasn't sure if you were like trying to give yourself something to look forward to throughout and like, you know, sipping on one as you went.
Katie M
I was actually not looking forward to whatever 12% beer somebody had for me because everyone's like, oh, I have extras of extras. And, and so, yeah. So then when I finished, I mean, it was like, it was bittersweet for sure. And then the beer that I drank was so disgusting that it took me 25 minutes.
Katie K
I love that that was like a part of your time, you know, like 25 minutes of time was spent on that beer. But I guess if you know, you have that much time, like why, why rush it?
Katie M
Yeah, everyone's there. Like, it's sunny. We're just chilling. I'm eating chips and drinking this. I think it was like 13.5% and it was horrid. Like, it was awful.
Katie K
You said they provided it. Someone else had it for you?
Katie M
Yeah, like people just had extras of 12% beers.
Katie K
Did they tell you how hard it was to find one?
Katie M
It's really easy where I live.
Katie K
Okay. because the last person I talked to said the hardest part of it was finding a beer that qualified but I've never gone on the hunt for a 12% beer so I have no idea how much you have to shop around to find one
Katie M
I think if you go to we have a really good beer and liquor store called Boone's it's awesome and so they have an entire shelf of different beers and I had probably like eight different ones I could choose
Katie K
oh okay that's nice
Katie M
No, but I got that for, I think I got that after. Oh, I got that after the fact when Karen and I did it. For my Trout Woman, people just had extras. So I think it does depend where you go because I couldn't go to many places maybe and find one. I agree with you.
Katie K
Good to know.
Katie M
And maybe ones that taste good.
Katie K
I don't know. I feel like there's a point at which you don't really taste good anymore. at least for my taste in beer. And I think 12% is probably around that number.
Katie M
I know. And I mean, if I had to drink that beer, like if it was like 11.58, like I only had two minutes, I could get it done. Like I went to Ohio State. I could do it. Like I could do it. But I was just chilling and it took me like 25 minutes and it was really, it was really fun. Like everyone one was so great and supportive and it was I feel like that one it was like all the stars were aligned I was like 15 minutes from my house and it wasn't because everybody else got it too it's you know it was hard the just two of us caught but Andrew did catch a cutty later on that day at like three o'clock but he hadn't done his run no and he hadn't caught a brookie he caught rainbows and a cutty coal caught brookies and rainbows you know so it was kind of like between Kevin and I were the ones that caught the cutties that day so then yeah then I finished and it was awesome and I was just happy to have like one under my belt and be like all right I did it
Katie K
I talked to Patrick who was at the Flyathlon he was selling the Colter backcountry gear I talked to him about his his like Troutman attempt he didn't finish it but he came really close and we were talking about how it's hard because when when the species all live in one place that's great because you're like oh I can catch multiple species here but because you can't control what eats your fly it's sometimes like more frustrating because if you just keep catching the wrong thing over and over again it's almost preferable to just go to a place that has nothing but brookies so you know that whatever you catch is going to qualify and you can just move to the next spot so it's kind of like a double-edged sword and this this is I feel like a lake with three species is pretty rare like I feel like two trout species it's a lot in a lake let alone three so that's kind of a you know you might get all three in three casts and you might be fishing for like five hours before you get what you need
Katie M
I know and we I think because it was early season and everyone was just jonesing to go do something fun because the rivers were so blown. We're like, you know what? We'll just fish and see what happens and spend the night at your house, you know, your townhome. And, but I, I agree with you. I'd rather go, okay, Brookie's only here. Cutthroat's only here. Like that, that feels better to me.
Katie K
Yeah. And you've got 26 whole miles. So it like, it's not out of the question that you could pass by either four different lakes or like, you know, three lakes in a stream or something. to get four distinct spots that all have different species. Like it's not, you're not trying to fit it into a really small distance.
Katie M
Right. Yeah, I agree. Because, you know, like, you know, if you have those creeks, there's going to be brookies, you know, like little brookies. And so, you know, it would feel better knowing that you don't have to catch. Because even in Westcliffe, you know, you could just catch browns and then the rainbow is hard to get. So then I think you have to think about flies. like which would eat which
Katie K
yeah I feel like rainbows would probably be the hardest for me to be honest like I catch fewer rainbows than any other species I think by far like they just don't live a lot of places I fish I think I think when you hit some of the bigger rivers you get more of them but small backcountry streams like it's pretty tough to find a rainbow they're not up there
Katie M
they're not up there so rare like even brush creek behind our house 99 percent browns and I went out last Friday and I was like I caught a rainbow where this rainbow comes from like it was wild so yeah because it would be good to have like a stocked like knowing you could go to like a stock lake like small lake and know you can get your rainbow it's all rainbows yeah go run the wild streams and go up to a lake and catch cutties
Katie K
absolutely yeah I feel like your best bet for a rainbow is either like a big major river which probably aren't like that plentiful in the areas that Troutman races are being run or some random like take and put and take rainbow trout lake where the only thing in it is rainbow trout and there's a bunch of people there like taking them home for dinner like that's that's I feel like what you've got to look for for the most part
Katie M
you you do I mean you know I've always thought about how could we do it I mean that's why sylvan lake is great because you you're guaranteed pretty much pretty much a rainbow there because it all summer long with rainbows. But the Eagle River, you know, like there are rivers that are plentiful in rainbows and browns, I think, where I am.
Katie K
The rules don't specify that it has to be those four species, right? Like if you caught a cutthroat, a brook trout, a brown trout, and a lake trout or something like that, like that counts, right? It just has to be a salmonid species.
Katie M
Yeah. Well, wait. Say that again.
Katie K
It's not that you have to catch those four specific species. You just have to catch four species. So would a cut bow count as its own species? If you caught a cutthroat and then caught a cut bow, is a cut bow considered different than a cutthroat?
Katie M
I think that a cut bow is frowned upon. Although, if you knew, yeah, because I asked Andrew that. There's something about it that it could maybe count.
Katie K
What, because you caught like three and a half species at that point? Like there's a...
Katie M
I think it's frowned upon. But there's cut bows at Sylvan Lake too.
Katie K
Because I feel like I used to fish the frying pan and I would catch at least what I thought were rainbows. Maybe they were. But since then I've been back and every single rainbow looking fish I caught had a slash. And so now I'm like, was it always cut bows or did something change and now it's cut bows? But it's like, they look like rainbows unless you flip them upside down. Then you see that little hint. And so it's like, I don't know. I want to call those rainbows, but they're not quite. There's definitely something in there.
Katie M
Yeah. They're definitely like a mixed species for sure. But yeah, it was, it was good. And I didn't, you know, to be honest, I really didn't train for a marathon distance in June. Like my longest, my longest run. And I had worked up to that. Cause like in the winter, I really wasn't running. I had like a little injury over the winter and my longest run I had done was 10 miles, like before I did the marathon. So, you know, they say it's 50% mental. And I still wholeheartedly believe that as long as you're hydrating and you're fueling yourself, you know, I think anybody that can do 10 or 12 can do 26. I really do. Even if you've never done it before.
Katie K
Were you like stiff as a board the next day or did you feel all right
Katie M
I was pretty sore okay yeah I was definitely because I went from like winter and then like running maybe like 10 to 15 miles a week and then eight a miler a 10 miler I was I was really sore I took like almost a full two weeks I was sore yeah I took a full two weeks okay I mean yeah and so I don't really have any training like for that one up into that but I do think carrying like food, like two to 300 calories an hour and drinking like 16 ounces minimum an hour is important. I mean, it was pretty cold. So I bet I wasn't doing quite 16 ounces an hour at that point. But when it's hot, you can blow through, you know, having those, the Katahdin water filter. Do you have that?
Katie K
I don't. Nope. I have a SteriPen and then a handful of other filters.
Katie M
Okay. This one, you know, those soft Solomon, like they're water, but they're like a water bottle, but they're a soft water bottle. You know what I'm talking about? Um, so Katahdin, I think it's just K A T Y D A N or something. They make a water filter. That's a soft pack. You can buy it in a 16 ounce or 32, like a liter and it's small, roll it up. And that has been a game changer for me because you're around water the whole time and you just fill it up and you can start drinking from it right away or fill your other containers with it instead of carrying all that weight, which is what I used to do, which is carry all of my water. So I think that you'll feel better when you have all those calories because you're just going to lose, you're going to get dehydrated and lose energy. You're going to use that mental toughness.
Katie K
So on that topic, like what do you usually bring when you're going out for like a fishing trail run? Let's say you're running two fish when you get there. Not necessarily Troutman, but just when you're going out to run and fish. What are you bringing with you that's lightweight but, you know, helps you out while you're out there?
Katie M
Yeah, I mean, I think if you're going to go do like, let's say you're like, oh, I'm going to go fish a high alpine lake. Like, you know, 6 to 12 miles. It's, I mean, you can be out there a while, right? like two to four hours, let's say.
Katie K
At least it like plus the any extra time you spend fishing.
Katie M
Yeah, exactly. So again, I think the water filter is key. So having water bottles with you, you know, and then having that water filter. And then I bring like I said, I kind of think of it as like two to 300 calories an hour. So if it's just casual, and I'm not doing like a trout, a Troutman, Troutwoman, because what like I might rate not race with but you know, that's going to be a little different because we're just chilling if we're going to Alpine Lake, but I would bring dried fruit. I love dried fruit. It's easy, packable, about like some kind of like bar, like nutrition RX or a cliff bar. And then I always have rice crispy treats. That's my secret. Um, I always have rice crispy treats. They're easy. And then maybe some chews, Like they don't have to be special chews. Like honey stinger chews are great. It's whatever you like that you're going to eat. So, you know, Trader Joe's down in where you are, right? We do, yeah. So those swimmers, those fishy swimmers, like those chewy candies.
Katie K
Are they like Swedish fish?
Katie M
Yes.
Katie K
Are they lobster shaped?
Katie M
Yes.
Katie K
I think you gave me these. I think you pulled a red lobster out of your pocket at the Flyathlon and told me to eat it. And I was like, I don't know where that pocket's been.
Katie M
I did. Oh, yeah. It was in my pocket. It wasn't in a baggie. It was like in my pocket.
Katie K
It was just loose in your pocket.
Katie M
You're like, no. Yeah, I did give it to you. I'm like, I swear it's just in my pocket.
Katie K
So yes, I'm familiar, but only because of you.
Katie M
Yeah. So you don't want to go too heavy in like fat and protein because your body's using carbohydrate when you're exercising. That's the primary source of fuel is carbohydrate. And so you want to bring things that are high in carbohydrate and maybe a little bit of fat and protein. So, you know, I might bring like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you know, or like those little Nutella rolls, like they're like crepe rolls with Nutella in them. But like, if we're going to eat lunch, I might bring some nuts and, you know, those like beef jerky and you know but if I'm just doing like the 26 miler like I'm doing the fly you know like the Troutman Troutwoman I'm mostly bringing you know like those swedish trader joe's fish chews rice crispy treats a bar bobo's peanut butter and jelly have you ever seen those no but what describe what they are they're like an oat it looks like a not like a pancake but it's like a flat oatmeal bar with peanut butter and jelly in it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So really you have to just primarily focus on bringing carbohydrates to your brain and your body and whatever works for you and your gut and whatever you like.
Katie K
And when you get back, are you then like taking in protein toreplenish? Like once you're back from your run?
Katie M
I mean, if I do something really long like that, I mean like a Troutman, Troutwoman, I must say like I'm not that great. Like I'm drinking a 12% beer and eating chips. That's probably not the best thing. But normally I would come back and make a fruit smoothie with Greek yogurt or a protein powder within 30 minutes.
Katie K
Okay. So yeah, I'm just talking about a normal day you're out and you've been eating carbs the whole time, but you're back from a run.
Katie M
Yes.
Katie K
Yeah. No, I don't know how to keep at the race. I feel like all bets are off when you finish a race or something like that.
Katie M
Yes. Or I just eat a meal right away.
Katie K
Yeah, just something.
Katie M
Just to eat a meal. Yeah.
Katie K
And what else are you bringing? Like if you go for like a fish run, not just like fuel wise, but like what are you bringing? How do you keep like a lightweight backcountry set up for fishing? And what other things are you bringing along to?
Katie M
Well, I think people like whatever pack you like to run with or hike with. I really like that Salomon. I wish I had a bigger one, though. I think mine's an eight liter and they make a 12 liter. So it's stretchy and I like the Solomon pack. I can't remember what it's called, but it's the Solomon. It's stretchy and you can just stuff a bunch of like food and jackets in there. It's amazing with that thing. I mean, if you have the 12 liter Solomon pack, I like it has the front pockets. It has a zipper pocket. It has kind of at your lumbar region. It fits good. You can roll up and stuff that Sims Guide 3 jacket in a 12 liter. Like, no joke. If you wanted to bring, I'm just saying it can hold a lot of stuff. So I may not be the best one to talk to about packing light. I usually like, I like the light pack and everything else, but I'm probably one who carries like more. They call me Cautious Katie. Like, I have like an EpiPen, Albuterol. I have an emergency blanket and I have an emergency rain poncho. I have benadryl, zyrtec, percocet in case I break my…
Katie K
Oh god you're still out running me and you’re weighed down with like 20 pounds of stuff
Katie M
I have pepto bismol in there I just have like I have like a little pack I have band-aids I have alcohol swabs and then I have like you know jacket and food and stuff
Katie K
but the water is too heavy it's a good thing you bring that filter along.
Katie M
That has been like lighten my load for sure.
Katie K
And how are you like planning where you're going to go? Like, do you have any apps or websites that you use religiously to find places that would be good for running and fishing?
Katie M
You know, I think probably people, that's a good question because I think by trial and error, you might have your favorites too. I don't know, but the Andrew turned me on to that one called Co-Trex, like that Colorado Trex. Now, I'm kind of cheap, so I don't pay for the subscription, but I learned, this is a little tip and trick. I don't pay for the subscription, so then you know how you can't have it offline. Okay. I really do like Co-Trex, so I might, so you can like, there's like a little scissor thing at the top where you can you can cut your you can customize your route so you can cut your route so you can mark your start and your end and make a custom route and then you can download it offline into your watch your your garmin your Koros and then you don't have to pay for the subscription
Katie K
wait so is what is what you'd be getting from the subscription the ability to save the whole map offline but instead you can just save your route offline and then as long as you can see that okay my route is going right here you know to turn right even if you can't see like all the detail on the map
Katie M
no you see the whole map
Katie K
oh you do okay
Katie M
so you're right if you pay for the subscription you you can get the offline but you can download it offline and so then you're not using your you know your battery life right to guide you like on I have to know where I'm going you know so you can use so I like co-tracks but the tip is if you don't pay for the subscription if you mark start and finish like start at the trailhead finish it like let's say lake charles then you name that route lake charles and you can save it onto your phone like in your Garmin or your watch.
Katie K
Oh, I gotcha. Yeah.
Katie M
And it'll be the whole map and you can have it on your phone too. So I like Cotrex and then I look up all trails, I think a lot, just to see different lakes. And that's really it. I like Cotrex and then Gaia. I'll use that, but won't, you know, you can get things into your watch. I just got a watch for the first time, like a GPS watch.
Katie K
What kind of watch do you have?
Katie M
I got a Koros, like the lower version, like not as like the middle of the road version. And so then you can download your map in there and then it tells you if you're off trail. Like, I can't believe I've gone this long without. That's probably the worst thing I do is not have an inReach or, but now I have a watch.
Katie K
Yeah. Okay. I love that you carry like 20 pounds of stuff, but you don't have an in-reach in that pile of stuff.
Katie M
I might. But like that's how I like to just kind of, you know, like some of those high alpine lakes, like, you know, you can get all the way up there and the cutties can be so picky and they're not eating, right? Like they can be, you can get up there to your destination and not catch any fish. Yeah. But then if there's a creek, you know, it's kind of fun to be like, oh, that looks fishy. I'm going to fish that. Like I enjoy probably that the most is like random creek fishing, you know, but where we hike, I like to go new places. I like to go somewhere new and somewhere to like a high alpine lake. And I guess I'm not really that picky. We just kind of look and see what looks good. And as long as somebody to go with, then I'll go there. Usually like six to 10 miles.
Katie K
And do you really prioritize somewhere to fish along the way? Or do you just take your stuff all the time? And if you happen to cross a creek or something, then you'll take advantage of it. Or are you like looking for like, we're going to go to this lake for the purpose of fishing?
Katie M
Always.
Katie K
Okay.
Katie M
Well.
Katie K
Because you said it's like you're really like stumbling across like little creeks and stuff. So I wasn't sure if you just go for runs wherever and then just like find water when you're out.
Katie M
Well, I normally like on a normal daily basis, like a weekly basis, I'm just kind of trail running. And then, you know, like I'll fish the creek behind my house. Or sometimes if I'm at work, you know, I work in Bale. I work at the hospital. I'll be like, I'm going to go out right out the front door and go fish Gore Creek. And so it's not always fishing and running. But like on the weekend, if I'm going like on a height, it's not always to fish. But usually I am like rigged up. If I know there's a creek along the way, I'll always try to fish.
Katie K
Okay. Yeah. Do you take a pared down version of your fishing stuff in any way? Do you carry all your fly boxes and your full size net and stuff? Or do you have a running setup that you use?
Katie M
I mean, I don't. I do have a smaller net. I've been made fun of. If you look at pictures of me, I don't know if you remember, but I had a huge net. Do you remember?
Katie K
No, I don't remember your net.
Katie M
It was the only net I had. And it was Jack's old net. And I think it was like a steelhead net.
Katie K
Okay.
Katie M
and it was lightweight but so I have a smaller net but I don't have any pared down anything I have my trout classic eight but four weight I don't have pared down anything except for my net well and I do just bring a little bit of flies and like a couple of spools of tippet I'm very so it's so totally pared down well yeah for me I guess I guess I always fish like that no matter I just fish minimalist like I have my nippers a couple fly little plastic things and a couple of things a tippet and some shimizaki spray and I'm good
Katie K
so you bring everything it's just that your everything is not that excessive compared to it's not a lot of people would fish with no gotcha so last thing I want to find out about is do you have any other Troutwoman attempts in the works right now?
Katie M
Well, I do. I want you to come with me. We're scheming for September 9th. Are you off that weekend?
Katie K
September 9th is two days before I fly to France and probably not going to happen.
Katie M
That's a great idea. Like you'll be so tired. You'll sleep on your way there.
Katie K
I might actually be on a work trip at that time too. I might be coming back from like a Crested Butte work trip to immediately get on a plane to France.
Katie M
Wow. Okay. But we'll do it again. So I do have, I haven't like advertised it a ton, but if it all works out right, like I might do Ultrout. I might do Ultrout that weekend.
Katie K
Okay. You do that and I'm definitely not going to do that.
Katie M
Well, but other people are doing Troutwoman, Troutman. Okay. And the same route.
Katie K
put me in for next summer I will promise to train enough to be able to do it by next summer
Katie M
you don't need to train don't think of it that way we're just gonna go on a couple hikes and then boom we're gonna do it
Katie K
okay I'll have to keep it keep you in the loop of my work schedule because my work is very busy during the summer but I will surely have a weekend that I can
Katie M
or like a spring you know like I mean you never know like we if we keep talking it depends on the snow melt and everything but
Katie K
that's true yeah maybe like a yeah I mean if you can get like a an early ice off maybe yeah so yeah yeah I will commit to giving one a shot next summer I'll look at routes in the meantime and let you also look at routes in the meantime because it seems like you have a lot of routes already established
Katie M
well I'm always thinking right I mean it's fun it's fun to plan I know that's what we were talking about like it's fun to like think about oh I never I never thought of it that way you know what I mean and then once you you know once you think about different places it doesn't seem it seems like there's a lot of places you know
Katie K
well and like we talked about earlier the not really knowing what fish you're going to catch kind of throws a wrench in the plan because you can you can easily draw a route and be like they're like all four fish exist along this route but what are the odds you can actually get all four is it like one rainbow trout has been spotted here in the last 50 years or is it you know when you go there you catch 50 50 rainbows and browns or whatever it is like you've got to kind of weigh out the the likelihood that you can actually get all four in the time limit
Katie M
well it's true and I think it's just all in good fun as well like if you think just this like we're all getting together or even if you go pre fish a few places like it's all I've kind of switched like I didn't sign up for anything thing this year like nothing normally I would have something planned like a scheduled you know trail run I'm like man I'm just gonna do flyathlons and Troutman Troutwoman stuff and just have fun you know but it's fun regardless that's the way I think you it it would be disappointing if you didn't get it but I've been there and but I think it's 100% possible like the first time the second time a third time you know
Katie K
and it's fun regardless of whether you actually complete it like the worst thing that happens is you caught a couple fish and ran a little bit
Katie M
yeah exactly there's nothing bad about that
Katie K
you're running the lake fork one too this year
Katie M
I am. well I won't be running it I'll be volunteering if I actually do this you know ultra on september 9th and then Lake Fork are you gonna be there? it’s the 21st are you gonna be there
Katie K
no this year I will be in France but we have moved away from the Lake Fork because it's starting archery season so that's why
Katie M
oh yeah that's right you were telling me that it's Lake Fork is September 23rd
Katie K
I wish I could still do like both I I really missed the Lake Fork one the timing is just not right and I like I really like the the race course on middle creek I actually I prefer the fishing at lake fork just because it's a little bit more exciting like you might catch something that's 20 inches long like you probably won't but you might and I feel like at middle creek it's like the same I've been catching the same brook trout for the last four years there it gets an inch bigger every year like it started at four inches and now it's up to like they're growing they're getting bigger aren't they but still it's just like I feel like I kind of know what's coming at middle creek and I like that at the lake fork you know you have no idea if you're going to catch a fish and then if you do you have no idea what it's going to be or how big it's going to be so I don't like that but I like the run at middle creek more it's it's way more interesting I like that I do like the run better
Katie M
for sure it's a gorgeous area of Colorado that not very many people go and the lake fork that's a pretty cool you know small like river there creek you know I mean it's super cool but I will I'll be like volunteering and walk. If I end up doing that many miles, I will not be running.
Katie K
I'll be like, wheel you in on a stretcher.
Katie M
I'll be like chilling. I'll be like the bike fish whisperer or something like, but I'm still going to go.
Katie K
Being a fish whisper at one of those races would be pretty fun too. Then you just get to stand there and help people.
Katie M
I know. You see, you're really good at that. I am not like, I consider myself a hack. I really do. Like I do. Like, I don't think I could.
Katie K
I don't know how to your own nymph. So you and I could like team up and be like a double, a double whisperer.
Katie M
Yes. I mean, you know, it's one of those things where I just, I don't think I'm a good mentor, but maybe I just need to try it one. Like I've never had to help somebody and I would feel like that would be a lot of pressure.
Katie K
Well, if it makes you feel better, you'll get practice when I come running with you and you can help me the entire 26 miles.
Katie M
I love doing that. No, I mean, that's like my favorite thing. When Kara and I did it, I was like, fish there. The browns are there. Put this fly on, you know, like it was fun for sure. And but then you learn stuff from them as well. Like when I was trying to help Kara and she didn't get the rainbow, I felt so bad. But she caught the cutty and I didn't. And she put a beetle on and I just I wasn't patient enough. I was like, I'm not, no, I am not going to change like 10 different flies. And I do not fish dry flies well. And so I think you always learn fun things from each other.
Katie K
Absolutely. Well, just to wrap up, I don't know if you have like a social media that you want to promote, like if people want to check out what you're doing or reach out to you. But if you do, you're welcome to share it.
Katie M
Okay. I'll share it with you. I'll share some fun pictures and a little video from June that you'll like. But thank you for all the good questions. It was fun.
Katie K
All right. Well, thank you for coming on and hold me to it next summer. I will make an attempt on a troutman.
Katie M
No, you will do it and I will not forget and I will keep on doing it.
Katie K
All right. Sounds good. Just shoot me a text when it's time for me to start thinking about it.
Katie M
Okay. I will be.
Katie K
All right. That's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. You'll also find the contact link there if you want to reach out to me. And you can also find me on Instagram at fishuntamed. If you want to support the show, you can give it a follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app. And if you'd like to leave a review, it would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise, thank you all again for listening. I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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