Ep 108: Fishing the Vail Valley and Exploring the West, with Benny Piekarz
Benny Piekarz is a guide and the General Manager of Colorado Angling Company. Benny and I met at a lodge in Belize and found out we were from the same neck of the woods. He has guided in Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana, and he also works as a private chef and carpenter. In this episode, we talk about his time in Belize, fishing around the Vail Valley, and some of his memorable experiences working around the West.
Website: link
Colorado Angling Website: link
Ben’s Instagram: @bennypieks
Colorado Angling Instagram: @colorado_angling_company
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 108 with Benny Piekarz on fishing the Vail Valley and exploring the West. Well, I start every episode by getting a background on my guests, because I like to know how they got to the outdoors and into fishing. So tell me how you got into fly fishing.
Benny
So my dad-- I'm originally from Chicago. And a lot of people don't think of Chicago was necessarily a fly fishing hub. But with Lake Michigan being there, them putting steelhead salmon, and there's also Lake Brown trout in there, and then a lot of tributaries, mainly coming in from Wisconsin and the Michigan side, that some hold resident brown trout, and then there's smallmouth bass, largemouth bass. And so my dad was into fly fishing. He got into fly fishing via my uncle up in Wisconsin. And so when I think I was about seven years old, he had taken me up there a couple of times before, but I wasn't really just kind of there to be with him. And then he got me some old Hodgman neoprene waders and I was getting in the river with him and we were going chasing steelhead. I think I caught my first sucker the first time I went out, I was six or seven. And then the next time we went out, obviously with his help, but got into some coho salmon and some steelhead. And after that, I was just hooked, you know, no pun intended, obviously, but it was great. And I still have a photo of me and him with the fish. And after that, I just loved it. I kind of knew growing up, like most of my extended family was from Michigan, or sorry, from Wisconsin and a few in Michigan. and we would go up to visit them and I just loved it. Everything that we could do, just be outside. I was like, this is the greatest thing ever and I just wanted to be outside. So from an early age, I kind of knew that Chicago was not the place for me. And any chance we could get, we'd go outside. And then in high school, I started going up during the summers and working at a horse ranch in Michigan. and then there was lakes and ponds, and so I'd bring the fly rod out and chase all the resident bass around, and I just thought it was the greatest thing, and as soon as I could get out of Chicago, I was off.
Katie
So did you go straight to fly fishing then? You'd ever went through a window of checking bait, or what was that progression?
Benny
No, definitely before that. Any other time when I wasn't with my dad, I'd be on a regular spin casting reel and did that, but it just didn't hold my attention as much. I liked how active fly fishing was. And then I just wanted to do everything my dad was doing, so watching him pick up a fly rod, it just kept my attention a lot more and seemed a little bit more difficult. I liked it.
Katie
Is fly fishing what brought you west?
Benny
In a sense, yes. It's kind of a crazy story. As I said, I was going to Michigan working at horse ranches during my summers in high school. And then after my freshman year of college at Michigan State, I wanted to go out west and work as a wrangler at a ranch in the Bob Marshall wilderness. And when I was looking for jobs as well, there was a position for a fly fishing guide/wrangler. And so I was working, I applied, and my hopes were not the highest because I was like, "Well, going to hire a kid from Chicago to do this and so I applied to a lot of different ranches but this one in particular was the one that I was most interested in and and I got the job and so I was you know a wrangler we would take people up to high alpine lakes and streams along you know when we're doing these pack trips and we go for seven to ten days and you know take people from anywhere from like 40 to 100 miles on horseback and and then it wasn't really a fly fishing trip, but we had guys that were anglers that wanted to get out and fish. I would take them to little streams in the North Fork of the Sun River and catching little browns and brookies and loved it. After that, I was sold on the West and the mountains and almost decided not to continue college. After all the pressure from parents and family, I was like, "I better do this I don't piss anybody off too much. And then after my sophomore year of college, I got licensed as a commodities futures trader at the Chicago Board of Trade and decided that that's not really the life path I wanted to follow. And so as soon as I could finish up college, I was heading out to Alaska to be a commercial salmon fisherman and then came to Vail to be a ski instructor. And and be a fly fishing guide.
Katie
So what what caused you to bounce between all these I want to visit like all of these things because they're all they're all really interesting but like it sounds like you really loved the backcountry wrangler fly-fishing gig that you had. What caused you to not go back to that and instead go you know be a salmon fisherman in Alaska and then bounce down and like instruct skiing like what how did all these things come together?
Benny
So I was I I was pretty into academics as well. I got asked to be a TA at Michigan State from a professor that I had taken her class. We really got along. After I came back from guiding in Montana, I was like, "I really want to do that again." She was like, "Benny, you really should try an internship with what you're studying to see if it's what you like." I wrestled with that decision for a little while. Then I was ultimately like, "Yeah, you're right. I probably should give this a shot, even though I kind of already knew that I was in search of more of an outdoor lifestyle. And so, yeah, so I did some networking and was able to get this job at the Chicago Board of Trade as an intern. And I started doing all the minuscule little office tasks. And I kind of just powered through all those right away. And they're like, "Well, we just hired some guys out of college and they're studying to take their Series 3 and Series 66 exams to be licensed traders. And they're like, "We're going to put you through that as well." And I was able to pass and get licensed and got a really good taste of the industry. But I knew right away that that wasn't really what I was searching for, how I wanted to, not the direction I wanted to take my life in. So, and then, like I said, I was kind of contemplating just going straight into the outdoor world not finishing up college, but after having talks with my family and everything, I decided that it was probably a better choice just to keep pushing through and get my degree. My junior year, I went and studied abroad and lived in Europe for the better part of eight months. I was just trying to figure out exactly what I wanted to do, who I wanted to become. I met a guy out there who had been a salmon fisherman in Alaska on Kodiak Island. I was like, "Man, that sounds amazing. Alaska has always been a dream of mine." I finished up the study abroad trip and went back to finish up my senior year of college and decided what I wanted to do. I reached out to him. I was like, "Man, can you pass along the contact for the people you worked for in Alaska as a commercial salmon fisherman?" He did. I reached out to them. They didn't need anybody, but they said they would put the word out. And about two months later, somebody called me saying that they were in search of a crew member and I was like, "I would love to." And so the day I was supposed to walk in graduation, I was headed out to Kodiak Island to be a commercial salmon fisherman and spent from May until October out there and just fell in love with it and was able to do some fly fishing when we weren't chasing salmon around and absolutely loved it. And then it kind of all rolls together. And I had met some people, I was out there who were like, what are you going to do after the season's over? And I said, man, I really want to go and, you know, ski every day and live in a mountain town. And so they, they said they had been in Vail for about, you know, I don't know, for 10 years. And, you know, they had some connections for housing and this and that. And, and I had loved skiing, you know, skiing mainly in the Midwest growing up, but just loved it too. So went out there and skied and became a kid ski instructor. And then yeah, and fly fished, you know, all winter and spring as well. And then went and did another season in Alaska as a salmon fisherman. And then came back to Colorado and kind of decided that I wanted to stick in Colorado. And so I started working for a local outfitter and started guiding trips. And I just, you know, once I had done it for a season, I was like, this is exactly what I want to do.
Katie
So tell me what it's like to be a salmon fisherman. Like I have no idea, in my mind, people wouldn't come out of it saying it's super fun. But maybe I'm picturing like the really harsh, like the crab fishermen and stuff that are out there with the freezing seas. Like tell me what your experience was that made you like it so much.
Benny
You know, I think it's one of those experiences where during it, you're kind of like, this kind of sucks and it's really tough. It's like one of those experiences where afterwards, you're like, man, I can look back at that and say that that was really enjoyable or fun or it really had a lasting impression on me. But yeah, no, it's definitely, it's not easy. I did it for two seasons. We were set netting off a remote island, off a Kodiak Island, and the island is called Uganic. And so we would go out and we'd be working the nets and boats during the day. and then we'd go back to this plywood shack pretty much at night and sleep and then wake up and just do it all over again. And it was totally remote. And I loved it, but there was definitely the days where you struggle where the weather is not nice whatsoever and long days and your hands hurt, your backs hurt and back hurts. And that's probably why I only did it for two seasons.
Katie
Okay. I don't really know how to phrase this question, but I feel like if I were to go do something like that, I feel like I could see myself being drawn in by the allure of a job in fishing. But it sounds obviously very different than, for example, guiding fly fishing. Those are two very different worlds. Did you find that you showed up and you enjoyed it because you were connected to fishing and you loved fishing? Or was it just the experience of being in Alaska and doing something cool and different, but it wasn't really filling the same hole in your life that fly fishing would. Does that make sense at all?
Benny
Absolutely, no, and you totally hit it right. It wasn't really the allure of the fishing, it was the allure of everything else. Being out in a remote area, being in boats every day, on the ocean, seeing the whales, doing the work, learning new things, just all of it. When you're out there, you're totally into that life. I mean, there's nothing else going on. living remote, the food, the fishing, the keep up of camp, the keep up of boats and all the fishing gear. And then, it was my first time in Alaska and it's just absolutely breathtaking. Especially Kodiak Island is just a special place. The bears, the whales, the salmon too. And I mean, just everything about it was just fascinating. And I was able to do supply fishing for salmon and for rainbows and steelhead up there as well. So it just checked off a lot of different boxes. It was just a great experience. I think I was just searching for those new experiences. To me, the adventure and being in a totally wild and remote place like that was just incredible.
Katie
Now, do you still guide for the same outfitter that you started guiding at in Colorado or have you moved on or started your own thing at this point?
Benny
I am now the general manager and guide for Colorado Angling Company. I moved out to Colorado in 2010 and then was fly fishing out here but didn't start guiding until I think it was the spring of 2012, if I'm correct, yeah, in Colorado. And then had worked for Mentor Anglers for years, which is another out there in the valley. And then I kind of started bouncing around. I started going up to Alaska again, but this time guiding for steelhead on the Kenai Peninsula. And then I've guided for a couple different lodges in Bristol Bay during a couple different summers, guided for steelhead in Idaho in the winter months. And then started guiding for Colorado Angling Company about five years ago when a good friend of mine started it. And this is my first year managing it and we're really taking it to the next level and trying to put out a product that we're very proud of and offering some different things that other outfitters in the Valley don't provide.
Katie
What is it like seeing things from both a guide's perspective and a manager's perspective? What are the guides not seeing that's going on behind the scenes that you have now experienced as a manager?
Benny
I think my idea of being a fly fishing guide was to try to be outside as much as possible. The customer service part of it is amazing and I think that's one of the things that really is why I love it. I think the main thing is there's a lot of back-end computer work, a lot of back-end logistics and organization, and things that as a guide, you don't necessarily have to deal with or worry about. It's mainly just a lot of organization and it's seven days a week. You've got your busy times and then things slow down and pick back up. Organization, I've learned a lot more computer skills and just little tricks of keeping myself keeping myself organized that I didn't have to worry about as much when I was just guiding.
Katie
Now do you still do ski instruction in the winter or is this now full-time since you're you are both guiding and managing is that kind of taken over at this point?
Benny
Yeah that has I'm not ski instructing anymore it was a ski instructor for Vail full full time for a couple winter seasons and then I kind of did more of a part-time thing because I started bouncing around and guiding other places more. But I'm also a private chef here in the Valley. And then in the off seasons, I pick up a little carpentry work too. So, you know, do a little bit of everything to keep the dream alive, but they're all things I'm passionate about as well. I love, you know, love building things, working with my hands. I love to cook and I love to guide. And I kind of think in a strange way, they all have a lot of similar, you know, similar characteristics to each job. and providing, with the chefing and the guiding for sure, providing a certain experience for your clients and the organization and just starting off from scratch and then making everything kind of come together and work and be a product that you're proud of and providing people with either a great day on the water or a terrific meal in the evening. And at Colorado Angling Company, we do a little bit of both and we offer a trip we call a cast and taste where we'll take people fishing and we have a private little cabin right on the Eagle River. And so during the float season we can float people right up to the cabin, get out and have a beautiful meal waiting for them and they can hang out next to the river and eat and it's a lot of fun to see it all come together.
Katie
Oh that's super cool. So do you have, like if you're the one guiding, who's making the food here? Are you kind of like coordinating the logistics behind that or how does that work?
Benny
We do, one of the owners of Colorado Angling Company, he's a chef by trade as well. And so we tag team a lot of things or, you know, it's a lot of extra work that goes into it. We'll prep the night before and get everything ready. And so that when we're getting off the river, we can, you know, whip things up really quickly. Yeah, it's just mainly a lot of prep and organization that goes all into it. But we kind of tag team doing the work with each other so that it seems like a flawless and seamless experience for our clients.
Katie
I want to come back to the fishing, but I want to hear more about what being a private chef in particular is like. The carpentry is cool too. I would also like to hear how you got into that, but what is involved in being a private chef? Who hires you and what do you do?
Benny
Living in Vail, there's a lot of people who are coming out with larger groups or just want specific experiences and want to have a restaurant-like meal at their home. And so a lot of it for us is word of mouth. And we've been in the Vail Valley long enough so that we get certain people who we've cooked for every time they come out or they'll have friends that come out and are looking for more of a stay at home meal than going to restaurants. And so we talk to them, coordinate and see what they're looking for. done four-person really intimate dinners up to bigger things like weddings and other parties like that. But yeah, it's discussing about what they're actually looking for and if they want more of a fully multi-course plated meal or if they are looking for more of like a past apps and kind of more of a party type scenario where we get some servers and they're walking around, passing around while people are doing cocktail hour. And so we can pretty much customize everything to fit whatever needs people have.
Katie
I feel like this sounds to me a lot like guiding in that you've got to cater to what the client wants and every client could want something completely different. There's not like a cookie cutter, this is what you're doing. You show up one day to guide and somebody wants to catch a 20-inch trout and they're not going to leave unless that happens or they're not going to be happy unless that happens. And just want to be out here and look at birds and I don't really care if I catch anything, but show me a good time and teach me something." If you do the wrong one of those things, then you weren't a good guide on that trip. You have to listen to what the person wants and show them that experience. Is that similar to somebody asking for a meal and you show up and have to make that happen?
Benny
100%. I think that either being a good guide or a good chef, it's a little about you've You've got to understand what your clients' expectations are and what their needs are. And so being able to read that either beforehand when you talk to them or on the fly when you're actually either in the boat or guiding them or you're at their house cooking for them and really being able to deliver the experience that they're looking for. A lot of people do certain things well. I think what really can make you a good guide or a good chef is being able to really provide whatever it is that your clients want. And you said it perfectly. Some people just want to be out on the river and aren't necessarily looking for the most fish or the biggest fish, just enjoying that day. And some people, that's why they're out there is to catch the biggest or the most fish. Same thing on the chef side too. I think it's just really important to be able to understand what they're looking for and then to provide that regardless of what you necessarily are thinking would be maybe a better meal or anything like that. I think it's just mainly being able to meet their expectations and hopefully surpass them. And that goes for guiding and tracking.
Katie
I want to hear just a little bit about like the fishing around Vail. So you said you live in Eagle, right? But you work in Vail?
Benny
We do work in the whole Vail Valley and we guide on the Eagle, up on the Colorado and the Roaring Fork so we cover a little bit of area.
Katie
Yes, without giving any of your like honey holes away, tell me about like the fishing in that area like where you guide or where you just like to fish? What kind of water is up there? Because you mentioned some of the big rivers. Do people ever go to like the smaller streams in the area? Are they ever looking for the kind of more of a mountain experience like getting up into the small streams? Or just give me like an overview of like where you like to fish and guide.
Benny
I love our home river the Eagle. It's a fully free stone river and so you know a lot of changes happen very quickly. But it is amazing there's nothing like floating down you know the upper section of the Eagle mainly from Edwards to Walcott Colorado and then it's just a really fun technical stretch and the dry fly fishing can be incredible early in the summer and it's fun it's a you know it's a fast-moving river a lot of rock so when you're rowing it keeps you on your toes and it's a lot of fun for the anglers too. Sometimes it can be a little difficult for beginners at first but that's part of the fun for it as a guide too is really teaching somebody on the move and getting them to do what you need them to do so they can have a successful day on the water. We don't do a ton of backcountry hiking trips to be honest. A lot of people are sticking to the main rivers, the Eagle, the Colorado, or the Roaring Fork. But we do, you know, we get a lot of people that have houses out here. We get a lot of people who are just coming on vacation that either are experienced fly fishermen or that are first-timers. And so we see the whole gamut. And I think that it really tests you as a guy, too, because you're really, every day, something, you know, the experience is different, the people are different and it's a lot of fun to test your skills on taking out a never ever on a more technical river or somebody who's been all over the world going to more places than I've ever been to fly fish. I think it really makes you a well-rounded guy because every day is a little bit different. Like we were talking, you've got to be able to read what their expectations are and then hopefully match them or succeed or surpass them. It keeps you on your toes.
Katie
Have you ever thought about doing trips like you used to do up in Montana? Like the multi-day, I don't know if you'd have horses, but just some kind of extended trip like that since that's kind of where you wet your toes in the West?
Benny
We've done, I feel like, I really haven't thought about doing it here in the Vail Valley, but I think I've chased it in other places in Alaska and Idaho where we've had people come for multiple days and have hit different stretches of rivers or you know in Alaska hopping in float planes and flying to different rivers or helicopters and getting out to remote areas and you know Alaska taking people for a whole week at the lodge and then showing them a different experience and so you know a little different than doing it via horseback in Montana but kind of the same premise. And I think there's some outfitters here that do it in Colorado. I think in this specific location, it's definitely possible. And I know for an outfitter I used to work for, we would partner up with a ranch to offer a day trip where we'd take people up. And it'd probably be like a six hour round trip excursion, but we would hop on horseback, take them up to a high alpine lake and stream to catch some beautiful cutties, and then come back down just for a day. But now I haven't really thought about too much about really putting, you know, extended trips like that together. But I would love to do it. That was so much fun.
Katie
How did how did the different states compare? Since you I mean, you've been everywhere from Alaska to Colorado. And I feel like you could argue that places like Colorado and Wyoming are close enough that they're they're kind of similar. But when you think of all the states that you've guided in or fished in, how do they compare? Are they pretty similar or are they pretty starkly different? Do you have a preference? Is there a state that really has your heart?
Benny
Alaska definitely has my heart. I haven't been back to Montana as much as I'd like to have. I don't know. Everyone always asks me, and that's one of the questions you get, "Where's your favorite place to fish?" I think I love every place for those little differences. It's very fun to kind of bounce around and go to each place because there are, even though like you were saying, Colorado and Wyoming are pretty similar, but there are little differences that make each one special. I had the privilege of going up to a private ranch in southern Wyoming, just a few hours north of Vail, and take clients there. That place was absolutely amazing, but it was a lot different than at least the rivers that I guide around here in Colorado. able to go up there and take people for we would do you know anywhere from like two to five days up there and that was a treat to go up there and it was a little tiny tailwater you know slower moving water but big fish and you know really eager to come up to eat big dry flies so that was a lot of fun but then it was fun to come back to you know to the Vale area and then have to get a little bit more technical sometimes and turn either really small dry flies or you know go and subsurface and catch them on size 22s and 24s. So I think I appreciate each one of them for, you know, further little differences. There is no place like Alaska though. It is absolutely just wild and even within Alaska, it's so big that some, you know, all the rivers can be so different that, you know, it's almost like you're traveling to a different state sometimes.
Katie
Is it the fishing of Alaska or the grandeur of it or is it both?
Benny
I think it's the whole package.
Katie
Okay.
Benny
Just everything. The fishing is amazing too, but the views, the wildlife, the way you get around, just all of it. And I almost think that for me it's that way with all the places. I mean, I love fly fishing, but sometimes, and even more as I get older and I've got it longer, it's about the entire experience, where you're at, the people you're with, how every day can just be a little bit different. all of that together just keeps it very interesting and fresh for me and I love that.
Katie
In Colorado, if you have a day off, what is your perfect day of fishing look like? Where are you going to go? Again, not honey holes, but what kind of fishing are you going to do on your own if you've got a day off and you've got all the time in the world to go do whatever you want?
Benny
I want to be in a boat somewhere, hopefully on one of the less crowded rivers and either either throwing dry flies or streamers.
Katie
And I assume you're not the one rowing it.
Benny
Oh yeah, of course, you know. Hopefully I've got a buddy behind the sticks, but there's nothing like getting together with a couple of buddies, all who can row, and getting out there and just taking turns. You know, as much as I love catching fish, it's even more fun to watch other people catch them as well. Especially when you've got a couple good buddies, and you know, it's more about the conversation and being out there and getting a couple here and there and just taking in the scenery. And you know, I think that sometimes when you're out on the river and you really want to do a good job for your clients and you want to see them catch a lot of fish that sometimes you forget to look around a little bit. You're so focused on trying to figure out what the fish are doing, what the bugs are doing, making sure all the client's needs are taken care of. So it's nice to reset and sit back and just sometimes be in the boat and not even pick up the rod for just a little bit just to float down and enjoy it.
Katie
Is it mostly a brown and rainbow fishery up there, or do you guys have many opportunities at cutthroats or brook trout?
Benny
If you get up to the smaller high alpine streams and lakes, absolutely. But mainly down on the bigger stems and rivers, there's mainly browns and rainbows.
Katie
And whitefish, I assume, at least in the... I know they're in the Fork. Are they in the Colorado and the Eagle as well?
Benny
Yeah, they are. And there are some toads, yeah.
Katie
I love whitefish so much. And they're fun.
Benny
I do too. I don't know. Some people give them a bad rap, but they're a lot of fun. They pull hard, you know, right off the bat. I guess when they give up, they do give up pretty good. But they're fun, and it's always fun to see how much they can bend a five-weight.
Katie
Do your clients tend to have opinions on them? Because I feel like I've always thought of them, at least in the popular opinion of being kind of trash fish and no one wants to catch them. But a lot of my friends say they really love catching whitefish, and so do I. So I don't know if this is something that has changed. if there's a new perception of them? Or what have you noticed? Have people come around?
Benny
I think it depends on people's experience level. I think that people, when they think about it, they're rainbow trout or brown trout, right? And so they catch a white fish and it's not necessarily their target species. But I never downplay it. I'm like, "Man, that was a great fighter. "That is a massive fish." You know, to get it in the net. I'm like, "Will you hold this thing "and feel how strong they are?" 'Cause they are just, compared to a trout, they are just rock solid.
Katie
Yes, they are.
Benny
Yeah. Like I said, I never downplay them. It is really fun when someone hooks up on one and isn't sure that it's not a rainbow or brown at first. They're like, "Oh my God." If it's a big whitefish, you're like, "This thing is massive." You get it. Sometimes they'll maybe be a little unhappy that it's not a big silver rainbow. At the end of the day, for me, the tug is the drug. I think it's just as fun when you get one one of those and and all the excitement and stuff you know before it gets in the net I mean it's just just as much fun.
Katie
Absolutely, no I think they fight way harder than trout so I always love when I get one.
Benny
Yeah I think it depends on who you know who you're with I always try to tell them that hey it's still a sport fish and it was you know a great fight and in my books that's what really matters.
Katie
And native.
Benny
Yeah exactly and native.
Katie
What's the biggest one you've seen pulled out of that area do you know?
Benny
Oh well just the other day on the fork we landed one that It was pushing 25, 26 inches.
Katie
Holy crap, wow. That's like my dream, to catch a whitefish that big.
Benny
It was four plus pounds. It was heavy, it filled up my net. And it was great, the guy had a blast. And there were some guys that fished quite a bit, and so I unhooked it and put it right back in the water. They don't want a picture or anything, but I was like, "You sure?" I kind of wanted a picture of it. But we were on the move in the boat, and I was like, "All right, put it right back." But yeah, it was a blast. And it was one of those things, it was on a dry dropper. And so, you know, we caught it in some shallower water and we saw a couple flashes, but we weren't really sure what it was. And so I was like, man, play this thing. This is a big fish. And it came to the net, we all had a good laugh. And, you know, he was like, yeah, that was awesome. And then, you know, set it free. But yeah, there's some big whitefish.
Katie
Do you ever catch them on dry flies? I don't associate them with like really rising much, but you obviously have way more experience around them than I do being on those rivers all the time. Do they ever come to the surface or are they pretty much always on the nymph?
Benny
They're pretty much always on the nymph. I've never seen one come up for a dry. Typically sometimes you're catching them when you're right on the bottom.
Katie
Okay, yep, that's the experience I've had too.
Benny
Yeah, they're not suspended a lot. This was kind of an interesting scenario. We were casting, like I said, it was a dry dropper and I probably had about three and a half feet between the dry and my first nymph and then about 16 inches to my second. And just the way that it came in, I think we, you know, cast it in some faster water and it dropped right into a bucket and it was just right there. And yeah, I was kind of surprised. It was the only one we caught that day and it was a big fish.
Katie
Worth it.
Benny
Yeah, totally worth it.
Katie
You mentioned like seeing some flashes, but like I've always associated whitefish with being very difficult to see in the water. Like there's times, especially on like the Crystal, which is our kind of like preferred whitefish fishery. I feel like we that's where we go if we want to catch some and they're not huge but they're they're plentiful. And I look in a hole and I know like the kind of water they hang out in and I'll look in there I'll be like I swear I can see everything in this hole and I don't see anything. I think you pull like four whitefish out and you're like how how are they hiding down there they blend in so well and kind of transitions us into the last thing I want to talk about which was how you and I met in Belize. They remind me a lot of bonefish like they kind of just disappear. They kind of look almost bonefish-like, but something about that color. I don't know if it's the iridescence a little bit and that grayish color. They just sink down to the bottom and disappear into the nothingness. Have you gotten better at spotting them?
Benny
No, no. And that was the only time I saw them flash was after we had hooked it. And I'm trying to just get a glimpse of what we're fighting. So when I saw the flash, it was just because he was coming up to the surface a little bit and then going right back down. And so I just saw the side of it as he came up, you know, higher up into the water column so the sun hit him a little bit and I was like, "Man, I don't know if, you know, either that's a really, really big, you know, rainbow or a really big whitefish." Because, you know, it was silvery enough. But no, I never see them.
Katie
Okay, that makes you feel better.
Benny
Yeah, no, and I don't, you know, not going into a lot of holes, you know, necessarily looking for them, but, you know, they're down there and the comparison between a bonefish, I think in a lot of ways is very correct. I mean, just the way they feel, the way they're shaped, their color, everything.
Katie
Yeah. The way they find you. The bonefish of the Rockies. Yeah. You should start touting that. Put it on your posters and stuff in the fly shop to just get people to really be jazzed about whitefish.
Benny
Exactly. I love them. I don't know. I would never. I think any fish is a great fish. I will never complain about getting a whitefish on the end of my line, especially a big, chunky one. Whoever doesn't like whitefish, whatever. Leave them for the rest of us.
Katie
The last thing I wanted to ask you about, like I mentioned, is the trip to Belize, because that's where I met you. We randomly ended up at the same lodge and found out that we were not too far from each other here. But how'd you kind of get into taking these bigger trips? Because this is our first saltwater trip, but you seem to have had a bit more experience, I don't know if in Belize specifically, but just targeting saltwater fish. So how'd you start taking these trips? And tell me how your experience in Belize was.
Benny
The first saltwater trip I had done, I was on a family trip when I was a teenager and we were down in Florida and just had the opportunity to go out with a family friend and chase it. It was so different than anything I had targeted with a fly rod. I was like, "Man, this is amazing." Then as I started guiding, I got more and more opportunities knowing other guides and knowing more people in the fishing world who were going on the trips. I was able to get down to Mexico a couple times and then, you know, about four or five years ago, a buddy of mine bought a fishing lodge down in Mexico and have been there since a few times. And I think that's one of the biggest things, you know, fly fishing has brought me and it's not just about the fishing anymore. It's such a connection between great people and nature and the outdoors and the places it can take you and the new experiences it can give you all around just makes it, you know, it's a lifestyle in a sense and it just provides so many things that I guess I, you know, as a kid never really saw myself doing. And I don't think there's, if I had a chance to go anywhere to chase any kind of fish, I don't think I would ever turn it down. Saltwater fishing is such a different deal than any kind of, you know, trout fishing or anywhere. It's a great other way to test yourself too and to learn more about the sport. Ever since I chased, I'm trying to remember my first time ever chasing permit and just how frustrating it can be. You're standing there in the front of a boat and looking in the water. When you go your first time, you're like, "Man, I can't see anything. What's this guy talking about? He's yelling 30 feet at 3 o'clock and you're like, "I don't even see Yeah, exactly. It's just such a different deal. Every time you get better and better and better. I think that for me, one, it's fun to get away and go to a new spot, but two, it's really a good test. It's difficult, and I really like that. Growing up and chasing steelhead, steelhead are notoriously difficult fish to catch. You can be there sometimes fishing for them, they might not even be there. And I feel like, you know, saltwater brings a different end of the spectrum. It's like you're sitting there waiting to see something really before you're making a cast and then really testing out your casting ability and all that. And yeah, I've just been fortunate enough to meet a lot of people, you know, working in the industry who are saying, "Hey, we got an extra spot open on this trip," or "Hey, would you like to go down with us at this time?" I had a great client that I've been guiding for years and years, who actually asked me to go down to Belize with them where I met you. That was fantastic. I know you know this, but I got COVID down there the second day of the trip, and so I didn't get to do a lot of fishing, unfortunately. It wasn't as great of an experience for me. I know that you got into a lot of different species and had a couple shots of permit and had a nice barracuda and some juvenile tarpon.
Katie
It was a, like you said, it's a big learning experience. It almost felt like just a completely different sport. The casting. Yeah. I mean, the, you know, the mechanics of casting are the same and that's about it. I think like everything else is, um, basically a hundred percent different. And like you said, spotting the fish, like I could not believe what the guide could do. And we were talking to him about this while we were there. We were like, I wonder how you would do if you came to Colorado and cause he, our guy had never fished fresh water in his life. He'd never fished for trout or like he's he is solidly a saltwater guy and had always you know made his life around this and I was like I wonder how difficult you would find it if you came to like a technical trout fishery in Colorado. Would, because in my mind saltwater was way harder like I can go out and catch trout all day long without a problem and then down there I was I was struggling and I wasn't sure if it's actually harder like way harder or if it's just that I have no idea what I'm doing and you know would he come and throw like a technical nymph rig and just be slaughtered by the trout the same way I was slaughtered down there or would it be like no this is pretty easy like I don't have to cast very far I don't have to like hit it right the first time and where else the fish is scared away like what do you like what do you think would happen in that case do you think someone from saltwater who grew up in saltwater would come and find trout fairly easy or do you think it would not translate?
Benny
That's a good question. I just think, like you said, it's such a different animal. It's so different. You're down there and you're really, when you're saltwater fishing, if you're doing a DIY or with a guide, you're relying on your eyes. I think there's just a lot more. I think saltwater fishing is tougher. I think a lot of things have to align. A lot of times you only get one shot, maybe two shots at that fish and then they're gone to the abyss. You know what I mean? I think trout fishing, if you're in a stream, you get multiple shots at fish if you're standing and waiting. I think some of the concepts would be difficult for a saltwater guy who's never, you know, freshwater fish to come up, but I think they'd get it. I'll never forget this good buddy of mine, Frank Smethurst, who's been in some fly fishing movies and things like that.
Katie
Oh, you know him?
Benny
Yeah. Uncle Frank is what I I've guided with him in Alaska. And yeah, he's a good buddy. And he said that fresh water is for drinking, salt water is for fishing. But he's a trout guide in Colorado. He loves it too. It's just one of those sayings. But yeah, I think I don't know. I think I've been so used to being out in the Western, colder climates. I don't know that my body would it might take a while for me to adjust to being in those warmer salt water temperatures for that long. I really enjoy being able to mix it up, but saltwater fishing is definitely something I feel like is just a lifelong endeavor that you just gotta keep going and doing more and more to get better and better. Yep, I still get my butt kicked out there.
Katie
(laughs) That makes me feel simultaneously better and worse, I guess, like knowing that I'm not gonna go back the next time and just suddenly be a pro now, but also it's not just me. So it's kinda like good and bad, But I think you're right.
Benny
I definitely think there's some luck that goes into it with saltwater. Yeah.
Katie
Yeah. I mean, even just like are the fish there or are they not? That's one thing that Mike and I were talking about after the trip was that in freshwater, I'm not often looking for a specific trout. Sometimes you can, but a lot of times it's just looking for water that would hold a trout and you can assume that probably one is in there. And if not, then you just walk to the next run that looks like it has a trout and there's probably one in there. And you kind of just, you've got lots of shots. You just stand there and you keep putting your fly in there and eventually something will happen or it won't, but then you can move on. In saltwater, it's like, you might have like five very specific opportunities, and outside of those five specific opportunities, there are no other opportunities happening. You're not fishing in between those. And that part, I think you're right, that it's just kind of harder because if you mess up, there is no just like, I don't know, just walk up to the next hole and blind cast to get into that hole until you get a trout. feels very much deliberate. You have to execute perfectly right now or you don't, you're done. And I think that would be easier coming from the saltwater world and being like, "Wow, there's trout everywhere. I messed up on that one, but there's another one sitting right next to it that's not going anywhere."
Benny
Right. Or you don't have the right fly on so you can actually pull it in and change your flies and then recast into the same hole or same riffle and try to pull out a fish present the right fly to them. Whereas, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've been standing on the bow of a ponga or of a flat's boat. You're standing there and you're just waiting, waiting, waiting. Then you finally get your shot and you just let your guard down just a little bit. You're standing on your line or you're just not ready or you pulled your fly line in a little bit. You've got your connection knot inside your tip of your rod and you're just beating yourself up because you're like that was my shot yeah and I wasn't ready for it yes I think trout fishing you get a little bit you know you get a lot more second chances absolutely
Katie
yeah like you said you could just you could sit down you could be like I'm gonna just sit down and drink a beer and change my fly and nothing will change like the fish will still be exactly right there doing exactly the same thing as it was before but I bet they'd be I bet they'd have some time adjusting to the trout set and now that the tables would be turned
Benny
right no kidding yeah it's always fun going down there after you've been trout fishing for a long time and you know not the trout set but guess what happens you lift that rod tip right up in the air.
Katie
You know I don't actually think that I struggled with that as much as I expected to I don't know why but that part I feel like I got down pretty quickly it was the spotting the fish that I never got better at like I I couldn't see a bonefish by the end unless it still was out of the water I I never came around Mike said he like by the end was kind of spotting him but I don't know I just can't do it.
Benny
Well I think it's funny too because you know you did you start you know hopefully you're down there and you're on the salt for five to seven days or something, you're getting out there every day and you get better and better, especially at sighting in these fish. Then you leave and maybe the next time you go back down is a year later. For me at least, I feel like you start right back over and it takes a few days to get your eyes to adjust and to get back into it. There's always that battle of time where you're going through. Then I've been out there too when you're all day and you don't see anything and I feel eyes start to play tricks on you and you're like I see something and then the guy's like no there's nothing there.
Katie
And you gotta trust him because you know that he actually knows that there's something there.
Benny
Oh yeah exactly. He says cast, I'm casting.
Katie
Do you have any more big trips planned for the future right now or are you kind of just hanging tight and things will happen when they happen?
Benny
Right now I think the next opportunity I have to go saltwater fishing will be in November at my buddy's lodge down in Ixcalac, Mexico called the X Flats. He puts on what they call guide week and we get a big group of buddies. He used to guide here in the Bale Valley with me and so we get to go down there and get a big group of buddies together and do some fishing. It's always a lot of fun, a lot of heckling, a lot of everything and so I think right now that's my my next opportunity. I missed it last year because I had shoulder surgery right when I got done guiding Alaska so that's right now that's the next plan and you know we're still cranking out here and busy busy season for us and so things will start to settle down you know around the end of September and then I'll be definitely looking forward to getting into some some you know different water and I'm going to hang out with a bunch of buddies but I think that's that's the only thing I've got planned so far but hopefully that'll change here as as we get through the season and I'll start looking for some more places to go through the winter.
Katie
Very cool. Well just to wrap up, where can people find you if they want to book a trip with you or shoot you a message or you know basically where would you like to send people if they're if they're looking for you either for fishing or private chef or any of the other numerous things you do?
Benny
Yeah you can reach out to me on Instagram and it's my IG handle is Benny Peaks and that is my name and then P-I-E-K-S. Otherwise you can reach out at ColoradoAnglingCompany.com. I also have a website, BenPicars.com, that you can contact me at. But yeah, love to get people together for both and hopefully even one of our cast and taste trips. We'll take you fishing and then cook you a gourmet meal.
Katie
Sounds like you can't beat that. No. Well, thank you for coming on today. I feel like we didn't get a ton of time to talk in Belize because you were quarantined and I was getting my tape down on the water so there was a lot of like saying hi from afar but it was like super fun to connect with you here because to meet in Belize but have you be like an hour and a half away is kind of a funny coincidence so I really enjoyed talking to you today.
Benny
Yeah thanks so much for asking me to be on and you guys got to come up and get on my boat out here and we'll do some fishing and be able to you know talk more but we should do it while we're chasing fish.
Katie
Yeah, that sounds good. One of my friends has been begging me to come up and fish Gore Creek because I've never fished it. So maybe I'll hit you up when I end up that way.
Benny
Yeah, please do. You better.
Katie
All right. Sounds good. All right, Benny, take care. I will talk to you soon.
Benny
All right, Katie. Thanks so much.
Katie
All right. That's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. You'll also find the contact link there if you want to reach out to me. And you can also find me on Instagram @fishuntamed. If you want to support the show, you can give it a follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app. And if you'd like to leave a review, it would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise, thank you all again for listening. I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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