Ep 82: Catching Every Species in Colorado, with Holden Ryu and Adam Thiret
Holden Ryu and Adam Thiret, both going to school the rest of the year, spend their summers chasing a challenge they made for themselves: catching every gamefish species in CO. They’re not far from completing their challenge, and in this episode we talk about how the challenge came to be, some memorable experiences and species along the way, and the species they’re still working on (including a funny story about why the green sunfish, one of the easiest species on the list, is still uncaught).
Adam Email: adamnthiret@gmail.com
Adam Instagram: @adam.flyfish
Holden Email: ryuholden@gmail.com
Holden Instagram: @thebluecollarbrawler
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 82 with Holden Ryu and Adam Thiret on catching every species in Colorado. cool well like I said I don't usually do a podcast with two guests so this is going to be a lot of fun and as I start all my podcasts I'd like to get a background on both you guys and how you got into fishing. So maybe just Holden, we'll go with you first and then we'll go with Adam and get a background on both of you guys.
Holden
Of course. So my name is Holden Ryu. I'm a student. I'm currently studying ichthyology, the discipline of fish, and I'm intending to go into fish research and eventually veterinary school with us specializing in becoming an aquatic veterinarian. And I got started fishing actually with Adam, and we can kind of get into that story later, but I like to think I've come a long way. I mainly specialize in rod and reel fishing, and he takes the fly fishing.
Adam
Yeah, so I really got myself started in fishing. I just one day decided, you know, I kind of need to get out of the house more, and I decided to pick up and buy a fly rod, and just as Holden was saying, I kind of started around the same time as him, and we kind of went out together a lot in those early days, and I was just going out, man. I was out at Bear Creek up in the front range, just like all the time, just trying to figure it out. But yeah, me and Holden, we were out there all the time and it kind of re-sparked our friendship after middle school because that's where we originally met. And, you know, back in high school, we were like, oh, we're both starting to get into fishing. So then we, you know, kind of re-sparked their friendship and we started going out again and it was awesome. It was a good time.
Katie
So I know we're going to get into this challenge that you guys have come up with for yourself, to catch all the species in Colorado. But Holden, you mentioned that you're more of a typical rod and reel guy. And Adam, you sound more fly fishing. Are you guys fishing together with different methods? And I assume that that means that you don't have a specific technique that needs to be used to catch all these species.
Holden
So generally what happens is it's kind of dependent on where we're going at the time. We kind of switch back and forth. For instance, let's say that we're going carp fishing together. Then I kind of take over with rod and reel. But if we're going up to a particular alpine lake, Adam knows, then we kind of both fly fish together. It's really like we kind of switch between who's guiding each other depending on the scenario.
Katie
That's that's pretty cool. Like, do you guys both do a little bit of both then?
Holden
Yeah, but I'm I'm awful at fly fishing. Adam, Adam handles everything in that department.
Adam
Yeah, no, I'm we've been kind of helping each other out. You know, I'm I'm always out here trying to learn new things about spin fishing and he's teaching me everything. And he's always trying to learn about fly fishing. So I'm helping him out. And I've always been a little bit more interested in the fly fishing side of things. I work as a guide now up in Vail, Colorado. So I've been really pursuing that head on. And, but I'm always trying to learn more about spin fishing. There's a lot more that you can do with it, especially. So it's really interesting to me.
Katie
That's really cool. I'm, I'm kind of jealous of you guys that I don't have somebody who's that close to me that does a lot of spin fishing because I used to do a lot and now I'm basically exclusively fly fishing. But like you said, there's a lot of situations where it would be really nice to have that other skill set. You know, I just caught my first carp on the fly this past year kind of by accident. But I feel like if I had been using a spin rod, I would have probably had a lot better success because it just it lends itself better to some species. And same with fly fishing. I mean, like you said, the high alpine lakes, I think fly fishing is often a more successful method up there. So it sounds like you guys kind of compliment each other.
Holden
Definitely. Like for instance, I, I definitely, Adam couldn't catch a catfish if he tried and I could not catch a, I could not catch a trout if my life depended on it.
Katie
Well, I think that's why a lot of time people associate fly fishing with trout because it, I think it truly is often the easier way to catch them. If they're eating something small on the surface, I don't know what you're supposed to do with a spin rod in that case. And likewise, I know you guys are still going for lake trout. There's not a lot of places you can catch a lake trout on a fly without doing a lot of extra work, I think. So let's get into the challenge you guys have made. As far as I'm aware, it's just you guys are trying to catch every species in Colorado. But tell me if there's more to that. How did you guys come up with this and what rules did you set for yourselves?
Holden
So it all kind of, it all started, well, actually, There's kind of a prequel, if it's all right, if I kind of get into that. So the first time I think Adam and I ever went fishing, like in years, was this was kind of like what Adam was talking about earlier with re-sparking our friendship. We both wanted to kind of try fishing. And so I found this spot on the line called Mount Evans Trout Fishing. It's basically this guaranteed pay pond where if you go up and don't catch a fish, you have done something seriously wrong.
Katie
I think I know what you're talking about. I think there's a billboard for it on I-70.
Holden
Adam's laughing right now because so we drive up there and it's about an hour drive and it's closed. And we were seriously considering jumping that fence because we did not want the hour drive to be for nothing. So there is a pond at my high school where there were a bunch of carp in it. And both of us had no idea when, at that time, we didn't know what we were doing when it came to fishing. So we go, we try and catch these carp. We fail miserably. And, but that was kind of, that was kind of sparked fishing for me. Because I really, really, like, wanted to learn, like, how to consistently catch these fish. And that's kind of when the challenge almost started for me. Because later, well, COVID hit and quarantine kind of canceled my, originally I was taking a graduation trip and then COVID hit, obviously that got canceled. And so I reach out to Adam and I say, hey, listen, do you want to like, crazy idea. We're both trying to get better at fishing. What if we caught every species of game fish in Colorado? And it's an objectively stupid idea because at the time we were too inexperienced to realize like kind of the, what that entailed. And it was the best idea I've ever had looking back on it, but I can concede it was an objectively stupid idea. And so that's like, it was, that was kind of where the challenge was born. Like just this, having this new, having something to kind of pursue and like kind of take on during quarantine.
Adam
No, for sure. I agree. When he proposed the idea to me, I was like, what is this kid thinking? But, you know, after some reflection, I realized what a better way. There's no better way than to fast track improving your fishing than just going big. And I was like, all right, I'm in. And it was great because especially in those early times, it was so awesome to just learn all these different strategies, especially, you know, when it comes to like carp strategies and how to catch a walleye, you know, like so many different things that goes into it. And it was awesome to just kind of like get thrown right into it and just have to figure it out on your own, which is kind of fun in its own way.
Holden
So there's definitely like a we should probably clarify with. So the first time I looked, I looked up when we were specifying what the challenge should consist of together. I remember looking at the Fish Species of Colorado Wikipedia page and realizing, wait, hold on. This is conventionally impossible. There are, I think, over 230 species of fish in Colorado by technicality, because that includes introduced fish. For instance, like, let's say the red-tailed catfish, which has been, it's an aquarium fish, and it can only live in the Amazon. And because people have put it in the rivers from aquariums, it technically counts as a fish in Colorado, but no one would realistically classify it as such. So what Ab and I did was we kind of cut down the fish that we needed to catch for the challenge. It has to be a game fish. It has to be a fish that has been stopped intentionally. And it cannot be conventionally impossible to catch. For instance, it has to be realistically possible to spend a pretty good amount of time fishing for it and then catching it. For instance, there are several species of fish that are highly endangered that if we fished for years on the river, maybe we'd catch one of them. So those obviously don't count, but strictly game fish was kind of the plan. And it started to expand a little, and that started to get interesting.
Adam
Yeah, I'm pretty sure one of those was the Colorado pikeminnow.
Holden
Yeah, the Colorado pikeminnow. Thank you.
Katie
Yeah, I have heard of that one. It's like a real fluke when someone catches one. That was going to be my next question, though, when you started talking about, like, it's got to be, you didn't use the word native, but you said, like, it should be here. And it's like, well, you know, where do you draw the line between a fish that, you know, really shouldn't be here? But I think the intentional stalking is a good way to say it. Because, like, you know, brook trout shouldn't be here, but it's pretty well established that brook trout are in Colorado. You know, you can't really, like, argue that that's not a game fish that would count under this system. So I kind of like that system you came up with to narrow it down to something realistic, but still a very difficult goal. I still like that you guys went from we barely fish to we want to catch every fish in this state. That's quite a big jump.
Holden
Go big or go home.
Katie
But I'm sure it's going to make you guys really well-rounded anglers because, and I'm guilty of this sometimes, you know, I'll go a whole summer and catch nothing but trout. And I do like to vary what I'm catching. But at the end of the day, most of the techniques I'm using are pretty similar to one another. And to do the variety of species you're talking about, like you've got to be able to, you know, drift a dry fly. You've got to be able to sink a streamer way down to the bottom. Get a little lucky, I'm sure, a lot of the time. And with broad and real, yeah, just like using bait, using lures. I'm sure you guys do use all kinds of stuff. But that's really cool. I feel like it's a really good way to get really good at fishing in general.
Holden
Yeah, no, it's learning. I cannot emphasize enough how many tactics I had to learn. For instance, when starting carp fishing, I did not realize that there was this entire world behind the rigs that you can set up. For instance, there's chod rigs, there's hair rigs, and there's all sorts of just really advanced stuff. And I'm still obviously a complete amateur at so many of them. But with all these fish, they all kind of have their own approach and tactics. And learning those was just was so much fun. It was just it was so much fun to like try something new and try and be forced to try something new to complete this challenge. And to do that for 43 species, that was the real challenge.
Katie
Is 43 the goal number or what you're at right now?
Holden
43 is the complete goal number. We are almost done. We have a few more left, and that includes the fish of opportunity list. The fish of opportunity are fish that we aren't actively targeting. But if we're in the area, we'll go for them. For instance, the Arctic Char, which is it's there only in Lake Dillon. And they're pretty, apart from that, they're not really in Colorado. And they're just kind of an additional fun challenge if we want to go for it.
Adam
Well, if I'm not mistaken, the Arctic Char is in Lake Dillon and another lake in Maine. And that's it for the lower 48. Like that's it for Arctic Char in the lower 48. Yeah.
Katie
Huh. I would have guessed that there was something in like Montana, Idaho, like somewhere kind of up north toward Canada. I'm surprised to hear that.
Adam
I don't think so. I don't think so. I think like that's it. It's just weird that they're in there and, you know, we could sit there and try and try and try and catch all the kokanee's and all the stalker rainbows before we get one. But, you know, maybe we'll try our hand at some ice fishing and see if we can't get one. I think that might be our plan.
Katie
So I saw on the document you filled out that you had a bad experience chasing Arctic char, or it said that Adam might not go back based on the disastrous trip last time. If I'm understanding that correctly, I'd like to hear the story on that.
Holden
Wait, was it the Arctic char or the green sunfish that was the killer? Oh, sorry. I think I misread. I think I miswrote that one.
Adam
The tiger. So we're talking about Officer's Gulch tiger trout.
Holden
Oh, oh, oh. Gotcha.
Adam
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Holden
Sorry, I think I might have mistyped that one. That's absolutely my bad. So what happened is the tiger trout was a total nightmare to catch.
Katie
Really?
Holden
A complete and utter nightmare. For no reason. We have to, for no reason. So we go up and we decide like, hey, look, summer's getting real close to an end. We should probably go for the tiger trout. And so we go up to St. Mary's Reservoir to try and to give them a shot because allegedly they were stopped up there. And the first time we go up there, it is chock full of tourists. We were not like that was total shock because most of the locations we've been to are pretty obscure. We don't see too many anglers, absolutely filled with people. And when we do try and fly fish for these tiger trout, they are so terrifyingly intelligent. I have not since, and I don't think Adam has either, encountered a trout that will intentionally just bump your fly, not take it, just bump it to see if you'll set the hook and pull it away from it. And it was that we tried, I think it was a total of four trips before I cast out on a hopper and it took it. And I'm screaming and Adam runs over and nets it. It was, that was a just very traumatizing experience just because of how the unexpected difficulty spike in how just intelligent they were and the logistics and having to walk up there for 45 minutes and 45 minutes back after a hour drive. That was not particularly pleasant.
Adam
Yeah. And in addition to that, I had kind of gone on my own several times to a place called Officer's Gulch kind of over by Silverthorne, a lake there. I had gone, I want to say like over a dozen times. And it's not that I wasn't catching fish. It's that there's also brook trout in that lake. And I would just, I don't know how unlucky I had to have been to only catch brook trout for like 12 times, but I was only catching brook trout. I could not figure it out. Like they're in there.
Katie
I wish I had talked to you guys back when you were trying to do this. Cause I would have, I didn't know that they were in St. Mary's Lake. That does ring a bell now. I feel like maybe I heard that somewhere, but I've been up there a handful of times just because that's where we take, you know, we've got people visiting from low elevation and they want to see mountains. We're like, well, just go to St. Mary's Glacier because it's not far and the hike is doable. But you're right. It's always that packed. Like there's never not a massive crowd of people there. But I feel like I could have gotten you guys a tiger trout and like your first cast at another lake.
Holden
We also had to stop a tourist from drinking the water, and that would have gotten her Giardia. So I guess I'm glad we went just to save her from that.
Katie
It wasn't for nothing then.
Adam
And Holden would know about that. We'll get into that later.
Holden
Oh, no, that's your fault. That's your fault.
Katie
Were you the lady in St. Mary's Glacier?
Holden
No. As far as I'm concerned, Adam gave me Giardia. We'll talk about my bitterness with that later.
Katie
Cool. Well, just in general, I have a whole list of things that are probably kind of generic questions about your challenge, so I'm sure you guys get a lot. But just like I want to hear what species have been, you know, maybe surprisingly easy, surprisingly difficult. What's been some like challenges that you faced along the way? Just like tell me like what you've what you've encountered since starting this.
Holden
Of course. So for me personally, one of the things that stands out to me the most was the path to catch a tiger muskie. And so the second I saw it on the list of fish we'd have to catch, because it checked all the boxes, it was intentionally stocked. It was possible to catch it after reasonable effort, but it doesn't have the name, the fish of 10,000 casts without reason. And that really spooked me. So it still manages to be somehow the hardest fish on this list and the easiest fish that I had to catch because what happened is, so I went out, so I got a tip off that they had been stopped at this one lake. And so I go out and I was unaware of the entire world behind muskie, tiger muskie fishing. And so I just try and get a basic intro. I read up on it and I buy a few choice lures. and I go out and I think I spent in total about 20 hours going after that fish in over about two days and I finally just gave up out of sheer frustration and then I go and I switch to my bass fishing gear just because I just want to get morale up before I try again and I cast out to this one hole with bass the first cast I have never had like a fish hit that hard and I pull in and there's this there's a 36 inch tiger muskie on the end of that who just hit the swim bait and I net it and I just like roar in just sheer amazement I was just it was so cool to like it felt earned but at the same time I somehow felt like I cheated and that was like Adam knows I brag about catching a tiger muskie whenever I can but that fish definitely stands out to me as one of the hardest fish I've had to catch but also just so it was so cool to see like this just beautiful fish in the net after all that.
Katie
Were you there for that Adam? Or were you by yourself?
Adam
I actually wasn't present for that. I was, I don't remember exactly what I was doing, but I wasn't present. But when he told me, I did not believe him. Until I saw the picture, I did not believe him. I was like, you're lying. This could be the hardest fish to catch in the list by far. It's not even close. But he had it, and on the bass gear, it worked.
Holden
I immediately called him after I caught it just to brag for about five minutes straight.
Katie
I feel like you've got to be a little bit jealous, but also a little bit relieved that, hey, this fish has been caught by the group. Now I don't have to worry about trying to do this. I'm sure it was stressful to be like, oh, now I've got to go out and try for this thing that I know for a fact is not going to be an easy task.
Holden
Oh, yeah. I was seriously considering putting some money aside just to go for a guide because that was literally the only way I could see catching it without just going at this random, effectively, strategy of random chance. So that was very relieving for the whole challenge.
Katie
You know, it reminds me, I kind of feel the same way because I have caught one muskie in my life and it was also fishing for bass. And it's a weird feeling that you can't really describe, but you said it perfectly where you're like, you don't really feel like you deserved it, but you, I mean, you still did it and you still, you know, spent your time and landed the fish and everything. Like there's, there's nothing discounting what you did, but I have the same feeling where I'm like, but I haven't caught one while I'm trying to, which is like, you know, a weird line that I feel like you don't really understand unless you have tried to target a species and caught one. And I think you might not be understandable by somebody who's never tried to go do something like that in the fishing world.
Holden
Definitely, definitely. It's, I feel so accomplished, but at the same time, unfulfilled. So maybe I'll go out for a muskie legitimately one of these days. We'll see. We'll see.
Katie
So which fish have been surprisingly difficult to catch that you thought would be a shoo-in?
Holden
Okay, let's tell the story of the green sunfish. So, regard earlier, with the story where we went back to my high school in this pond, there were these sunfish over there. And I remember catching these small bluegills and sunfish from my childhood. I thought, oh, it'd be so easy to just kind of dip the hook in with a worm on it and they'll go for it. Somehow, these fish absolutely knew that and after about two hours of effort we had nothing and it was the height of embarrassment for me just to try and catch sunfish and somehow come up empty and so later when we're looking at this challenge I i kind of we both made a promise that the green sunfish is going to be the last fish that we catch on this list and the second that we catch the easiest fish on this list we're going to set off fireworks at we're probably going to go fishing at a kid's pond there's going to be fireworks there's going to be celebration beer chugging who knows it's but that's gonna that's to satisfy the grudge
Adam
yeah I know Holden you had mentioned that you are going to use your big saltwater shark rod and we're going to catch the sunfish on a big shark rod at a kid's pond. That would be really funny.
Holden
It's a 12-foot surf rod with an 80-pound drag, so good luck to any sunfish hooked.
Katie
I mean, they do fight hard. The panfish do fight hard.
Holden
They do fight hard.
Katie
Well, there's a green sunfish pond about five minutes from my house. It's got a nice little dock you can stand on, so if you guys save it for last, I can direct you right out to them. Where I have caught them, they have not been difficult to catch.
Holden
that sounds that sounds incredible I'll bring the saltwater rod
Katie
what what other challenges have you encountered just not necessarily in terms of what fish was difficult to catch but just like things you didn't consider going into it have you have you encountered anything along the way that's had to make you like pivot your plan or or anything like that
Adam
yeah I think I'll kind of start with this really when we were first getting into the challenge and doing a lot of the research on the fish we'd have to catch. I knew we were going to get to this eventually, but the golden trout is something that came up and we had initially almost written it off because we had like zero information on whether or not it was possible or where they could be. But after a while, we really looked into it. I looked into it some more, Holden looked into it some more, and we had found several leads that it was possible. And we really had, I mean, I had been backpacking a few times before, but I really was more or less just kind of a newbie at it. And Holden, from what I'm aware, had never been at all. And it was like, well, if we're going to catch the golden trout, we're going to have to go backpacking to an alpine lake way up in the middle of nowhere. I won't obviously disclose the location of the golden trout, as you know, Katie, because you've been up there. It was really just kind of a pivot of the entire challenge. And it was almost hands on deck. We're going for the golden trout. Like we have to try.
Holden
It started as like kind of, I remember the day that we kind of decided the challenge. And I remember looking at the golden trout on the list and initially writing it off. But then like this little voice in my head kind of said like, will I really be able to satisfy this if I know like I can catch this fish? And it satisfies the conditions. Like, will I be kind of happy with myself knowing, like, I could have caught it and I gave up because it was too much work? And that thought kind of, I think, sustained both of us throughout the many hours of research that came after that.
Adam
Yeah. And what that really entailed was just hours of photo cross-referencing and Google Maps, just deep diving into all, like, I mean, we looked at a lot of alpine lakes in Colorado on Google Maps. We went through a lot, like easily over 100. And we just cross-referenced it the best we could until we had one spot that was like, if it's there, it's there.
Holden
Definitely. That was a major part. But another thing that kind of came up for me was what was unexpected was kind of the danger of burnout. I love fish like nothing else. I will no doubt have a career working with fish. And I love it. I love fishing. I love fish keeping, you name it. But even I like it was kind of always a risk to kind of like. There would be there would be times where I put a ton of effort into like catching one fish, for instance, like the smallmouth bass or was a shockingly unexpected amount of effort. And then just kind of, it was always, I kind of had to learn to pace myself and not to throw myself at things way too much where I get just way too tired and burned out. And so that was definitely a larger kind of life lesson, like pace yourself, kind of take it easy. And then you'll kind of, I would just would be way more productive just as a fisherman rather than just kind of just casting out mindlessly. just kind of being able to learn to put in this intentional effort.
Katie
Well, I'm sure the burnout gets worse the farther you go because as you get down to the end, I feel like those fish take a lot more time to get, a lot more effort spent. It's not wasted effort, but going out and probably not catching anything and having to come back and reassess and replan. I feel like it's hard to get burnt out when you go out and you catch like three new species and you're like, we're making such great progress, you know, but then when you're, when you're going out for like four or five days for one fish and it's not happening because, you know, there's brook trout in there or whatever. Um, I feel like that's when it's got to get, you know, you're, you're weighing your options. Do I go fishing today and probably not catch my goal species or do I go do something else that I can have a lot more fun and not get as frustrated? Um, and I think that's kind of part of the, part of the process is just, you know, sticking with it and an understanding that you might have to take a break and maybe just go fishing for fun and not worry about the challenge in order to keep it fun and exciting.
Holden
Definitely.
Katie
For the golden trout, is that how you guys know Jon?
Adam
Yeah.
Katie
Okay.
Adam
Well, at least I reached out to Jon after we did it, and I found out, obviously, from your podcast, actually, that he's a rod builder. So that's how I know him is I asked him to build me a rod.
Katie
Oh, I'll have to have him send me a commission check since I directed you his way.
Adam
Yeah, there you go.
Katie
I also wanted to ask if it's not a sensitive area, because I feel like most of the places I know for them are not sensitive areas. Where did you catch your smallmouth bass? And if it is a sensitive place, you don't need to tell me, but I'm curious if it's somewhere nearby.
Holden
So I initially tried a bunch at Chatfield, and I had absolutely no luck. And so instead what I did was I was trying something totally new. I went, I was actually fly fishing for them on the South Platte, right in the middle of Denver, kind of near Lakewood. And using a, actually I was using a carp fly that emulates a crayfish. And I was just kind of jutting that along or pulling that really quickly along the bottom. And that's how I caught him. He hit it really hard, and that was the smallmouth done. It was really embarrassing to go out for about five trips for the smallmouth and come up empty, and then first time fly fishing for them, I come up with the success. So that was nice and a message that I shouldn't go to Chatfield anymore.
Katie
Those are some of the places I thought you might mention. I also haven't had much luck for smallmouth in Colorado. I've caught a ton back home in Pennsylvania. But in Colorado, I fished where there are smallmouths, and I tend to catch basically everything else that's in there instead of smallmouths. I don't know if I need to up the size I'm using, but I'll catch like a bunch of big sunfish of different types. And it just seems to avoid the bass. But largemouths, I don't have a problem catching at all. It just seems to be the smallmouths.
Holden
It's the same in Colorado, too. Actually, technically, the largemouth was the first fish that we caught for the challenge. What was happening is this was in the middle of online class. So I was a senior in high school. And so I turned off my video and I drove out and went fishing and caught a large mouth and drove back and turned on my video again before class. So that was the most productive day of high school.
Katie
So that might answer my next question, which was going to be, did you guys count anything retroactively? Did you say, you know, I've caught rainbow trout before, so we don't have to catch another one? Or did you restart the timer or restart the clicker at the time you started the challenge?
Holden
I believe everything we've caught has been legit. I don't believe we've turned back the clock on any of them. Because, yeah, I've caught flatheads and blue catfish in the past. But we have to kind of start anew for the challenge as we saw it.
Adam
Yeah, I remember we made it a point where it was like, when we start the challenge, we have to re-cut. I had caught a rainbow trout before, but that doesn't count. We needed it for the challenge.
Katie
Okay.
Holden
And we're both attending colleges in different states. I'm in Oregon, Adams in Texas, and we have to catch the fish in Colorado. For instance, I've caught a bunch of blue catfish here, or I'm so sorry, I've caught some flathead catfish out here, but it doesn't count for the challenge unless we catch it in the state of Colorado proper.
Katie
Got it. And that's because you were both born here? Is that why Colorado?
Holden
You know, we more see it as like it has to be, it's more, I can't even really describe why it's a rule. It's just, if it's outside of Colorado, it doesn't conform to the original challenge. We need to catch it. We need to catch it using the tactics appropriate to the state of Colorado. And because, for instance, here in Oregon, I can catch fish in this gigantic river, the Columbia, but I can't. But it's not the same tactics that I use in Colorado. so like can I really kind of call myself a Colorado angler if if I'm using the tactic I see it as illegitimate okay I know it might make it's hard to describe
Katie
I think a challenge has to have boundaries. you can't just you can't just make the sky your limit and then you'll never achieve it you've got to you've got to put some sort of limitation on it so it's very obvious when things count and when things don't count and that's why I think it was good that you guys kind of went through the list and said okay you know if it's not a game fish it's out because you're not going to you're probably not going to catch one and then if it's if it's like you said the pike minnow where people catch them by accident like after after fishing the same spot a hundred times it's not really a matter of can you put in the work and get it it's kind of more of a chance thing and so setting those boundaries I think makes the challenge you know you can set the appropriate difficulty I guess and then you know when it's complete and that wouldn't be the case if you just kind of left it open-ended like that do you guys have plans you know I assuming you complete this challenge to expand it out and like try to do something like the whole country or anything like that. I know that would be a exponentially larger challenge, but like where, what's next?
Holden
So I'm actually looking at, I'm looking at transferring to Florida for veterinary school. And I was actually looking at the challenge of catching every fish in Florida, but this time recording it and kind of recording the whole process because there's so many stories from catching the fish in Colorado that I wish I'd be able to show to you on video. I'd love to show you the tiger musky hit, but I obviously can't, and I'd love to make it more of a video as almost this process to document the different tactics that you have to use, even though all these fish may seem the same to catch, just the nuance required. um yeah that's the plan
Katie
what about you Adam do you have any like follow-up plans?
Adam
yeah I guess for me right now I'm kind of trying to finish college and I'm really trying to pursue fly fishing like really heavily I'm trying on honestly I think from the next step for me is really going to be trying to catch all the game fish on fly I've already got permit and bone fish I went to Belize for that so that was fantastic but I'd still love to you know while I'm still in Texas, especially go down to like Galveston, Houston and go for some redfish and really just try and broaden my horizons when, as it comes to fly fishing. Um, cause it's really become a passion of mine kind of sprouted and born from this original Colorado challenge. And I'd love to, kind of reconvene with Holden, and do some, I know, I know we have some tentative plans to to go to some crazy places golden dorado in Bolivia is one thing that we that we've discussed
Holden
for sure and yeah no I'm I'm looking into we one of our plans for graduation is once you graduate college we're looking at heading down to brazil and trying to catch as many game fish as we can down there so definitely this challenge is not the end of our fishing prowess together. A
Katie
dam, would you, like, have you considered, like, almostredoing the Colorado challenge, but only on the fly and trying to get some of those species that are notoriously difficult to get on a fly rod, but maybe wouldn't, wouldn't have been that hard for you guys in this challenge, just because, you know, you were using, you know, I know we talked about carp, you know, carp with a piece of corn is probably not as difficult as getting one to take a fly. Like, have you considered trying to go back and do that with just a fly rod? Or is, Are you comfortable with, you know, you guys working together with both methods and then just moving on from there?
Holden
I will put $100 down if you catch a tiger muskie on the fly. I'm just going to put that gauntlet down now.
Adam
I was just about to say, a tiger muskie on the fly is something I want to try for sure. You know, get a good seven, eight weight rod and throw some big meat out there. That would be fun. It's definitely something I've been considering. I'm not quite there yet. I'm still trying to, you know, really get my trout fishing game down really good. Now that I'm guiding, I'm really getting better at reading the water and learning all about the insects that all the trout are eating. So it's been it's been a journey, but I'll get there eventually, I think. I think I think that might be next for me, for sure.
Katie
Do you guys have any other stories from when you've been out that are just like worth noting? just, you know, maybe not necessarily the most surprising thing that's happened or most difficult or anything, but just, you know, I feel like going out after so many different species and so many different environments, like, have you just had any kind of like funny or unexpected things happen along the way?
Holden
Definitely. So one of the, I think one of the stories that kind of stands out to me for just showing that I've kind of learned a lot as an angler was the story of the grass carp on the fly rod. Adam knows the story
Katie
you guys emailed me about this
Holden
well no this is that's this is another so this was so I wanted so I was struggling to kind of track down a grass carp on and where to catch them in Colorado and I reach out and apparently there's this one spot and it's a private pond and I talked to the guy and the guy says look it's fine if you want to fish in my pond, but I'm only going to let you fish for them on the fly, because if you use bait, they could potentially swallow it, and I care a lot about these fish. I don't want them getting hurt. So you can fish here. You have my permission. Just you have to catch them on the fly. And I get kind of concerned because, as I kind of mentioned, I am certainly no fly fisherman, and catching grass carp on the fly is infamously difficult. And this story is definitely going to out that I'm kind of an idiot. And so my plan, at the time, I thought, I'm going to be honest, I thought the weight thing on rods was a total scam.
Adam
For fly.
Holden
I've caught, yeah, I've caught these, I've caught gigantic catfish, like 41 inches on these ultralight rods. And I consider it possible. Like, I consider it honestly like a fun challenge. So I was thinking, yeah, this weight thing on fly rods is definitely more of a suggestion than a hard limit. And this is what I learned. Wait, hold on. I'm a moron. So it's 4 a.m. And I get out of bed. And I had spent all night kind of tying together this new fly. It was a bunch of green thread all kind of put together. And the idea was I was trying to emulate this piece of algae. And I got an advice from a family friend who specialized in things. And he said, yeah, I haven't done it myself, but I'd give this a shot. And so I drive over to this pond and grass carp kind of, they start feeding in the morning and it's 5 a.m. And this pond's absolutely, it's beautiful. I'm just kind of, I'm just waiting near this one spot. I'm waiting for him to kind of come in. I'm waiting to see him because I'm scared that if I kind of stalk after him, then I could spook him. And then he's never going to feed. and I'm just waiting there and then I see him this gigantic grass carp just swimming along the edge and he'll kind of stop and he'll kind of chew at some algae and so I I pick up my fly rod and this fly rod by the way is it was a gift from a family friend and it means so much that like he kind of he made this for me and I I valued the rod with my whole heart and so I pick it up and I cast out. And in that second that I cast, I genuinely had to remind myself to breathe. Like I would, it was so intense because I'm like, I don't want to scare this fish, trying something new. I have no certainty here. And the algae, the algae fly starts to sink and the grass carp finally sips it. In five seconds, I swear to you, half my spool is empty. I have never had a freshwater hit fish that has fought that hard. And as he's like all the way at the other side of the pond, that's the exact moment I realize, okay, so maybe this weight thing really does have something to it.
Katie
What weight were you using?
Holden
A four weight. Okay. So I'm trying to haul in this gigantic carp that is fighting me with everything that it has. And I'm just like, please don't break the rod. please don't break the rod. This rod means everything. I'm desperately praying. And after about 30 minutes of just this excruciating fight where I'm literally like running along the side of the pond, just because I'm so afraid of pulling on it, like pulling on it and potentially snapping it too much. And finally, I pull him into the net. And I just like, I pull him onto the shore and I just collapse, like the adrenaline just leaves my body. It was that was kind of the moment where I realized, you know, I should listen to Adam more about these things and not just my intuition and fear of being scammed.
Katie
So Adam, were you there on that one? It sounds like you were also not there for the, for the grass carp.
Adam
No, I was not there on that one. We honestly, we've been kind of taking this whole challenge. Just some of the times we're going to, we're going to be together. Some of the times are separate. I've caught, I caught the greenback trout, a greenback cutthroat by myself.
Holden
We didn't even realize it until later.
Adam
Yeah, I know. I took some cross-referencing for sure. But I guess there's also another really funny story that I feel like has to be mentioned. And it involves the golden trout. I guess I'll preface by saying when we were initially planning out the golden trout, again, because we were both lack of experience and backpacking, we enlisted the help of one of my friends named Steven. And since now he's become like one of Holden's great friends. He's always been one of my great friends. Um, and we, we, all three of us went out, hiked up, in retrospect and with not nearly enough time. Uh, we ended up camping a little bit lower down than, we should have, not, at the destination where when we eventually found the fish as you kind of know as you've katie have you said in your blog post it wasn't as easy as yo u would think they're not where you would expect them to be and once we eventually found them and I hooked in the one and we and holden I mean he'd like when I hooked into it he ran like I mean this kid was running and he just nets this fish and we just sit there and just scream just not saying anything we're just screaming
Katie
yeah it was just so funny same thing happened to me my friend there we just were screaming I'm pretty sure we scared away every other fish in that area
Holden
the story of the golden trout is slightly different from my my story is slightly different from Adam's because it was my first ever time backpacking. Adam and Steven. Adam’s playing down his experience but Adam and Steven they're both they know what they're doing when it comes to backpacking I'm like looking back on it the trip was so poorly planned this was all of our faults like it was quite frankly last minute and so we kind of I'm totally new I get this I rent this backpack and we head out and I will never forget at the one mile mark just my first time my body is breaking out under me. I just like totally turtle next to the river. I'm just like panting as Adam and Steven are just like, they're just talking and laughing. And I'm just thinking as I'm dying of exhaustion, whose idea was this? And so it's this brutal trek up there to the Golden trout. And the first night I think I fell into bed and I just, I have never like been that tired and I just wake up in the morning and everything hurts my legs, my arms, my upper body, I force myself out of bed, we all do, we have to obviously can't say too much but we have to make a major ascent up to the spot and obviously what happened with Adam is Adam catches the first golden trout and I'm just there like, wait, hold on. Adam can't be the only one. But it's also getting, the sun's starting to go down. It's starting to get dark. And Steven, he's the most experienced out of all of us. He's yelling at us. Look, we gotta get down before dark, or we're gonna have some serious issues. And the adrenaline's starting to pump, and that's like, I finally have a second where I'm like, wait, hold on. I need to kind of calm down. I need to really think about this because panicking is going to get me nowhere. And like, I kind of think, okay, what have I seen them take? What, like, what season is it? Like, I need to kind of, I can't just cast out randomly. And I use a, and I kind of, I think back to the research and it was spawning season for the golden trout at this time, according to this one ichthyologist post a while ago. And so I tie on this egg pattern. I cast in and the smallest golden trout comes out and hits it. I just, I yank it out of the water. I feel terrible in retrospect, but the adrenaline had just so hit and I like catch it and it's like, I'm worthy too. And obviously the golden trout, he, I made sure he was okay when I released it. It's but that was like that was it was so cool to kind of go all this way and catch him. And the next day we head back and we're all kind of insistent, like, hold on, we need to stop by. We need to there's this one restaurant that Stephen's talking about that's allegedly incredible in the mountains. And we haul ass back. It's a gigantic trek back, like more than I've ever done. And we just absolutely, we were going as fast as humanly possible. And we go back and we make it back just in time. And we speed to the, we are absolutely, we speed to the restaurant. And as it were, like, we get the food. And as we're heading back, as Stephen's driving, we're heading back to Denver, just the most beautiful sights I've ever seen, like in the mountains. And I'm eating the greatest fried chicken of my life. And I'm looking out the window as lonely boys playing on the radio. And I have two people I trust with my lives. And I'm like, and we caught the hardest fish on the challenge. It's probably the happiest single memory of my life. Just like hitting, having this crazy challenge. And led us to catching this, quite possibly the rarest fish in Colorado. And we did it. It was just so satisfying to me, setting this challenge and following through.
Katie
That's awesome. I feel like that's – I mean, I know that this was particularly a rare moment, but that feeling is such a good feeling regardless of – if you worked hard and you earned what you set out to accomplish and you got to share it with friends, that's just such a rewarding feeling afterward that you just get to bask in that feeling. I remember that Allie and I on the way home, we went to McDonald's and I was like, give me like five cheeseburgers. I just like I just need to shove some food in my body, some comfort food. And like I don't I don't eat fast food very often, but that was like the best burger I ever tasted, even though it was a McDonald's cheeseburger.
Holden
Something about that after backpacking trip food combined with like this incredible achievement, it makes it the best food of your life.
Adam
Yeah, I just remember me and Steven on that hike back, just like incredibly impressed after Holden on the way there. He was struggling, man. It was hard. It wasn't an easy hike to begin with. That's a hard backpacking trip. And I just remember me and Steven going, holy, because he was booking it. Holden, he had one track mind, and it was that restaurant. And he was one track mind, and he was going down fast.
Holden
I'm not exaggerating when I say. If I did not have that restaurant and the direct encouragement of food, I think my heart would have just given up somewhere along the trail. I would not be here.
Katie
I want you to get this restaurant name from you after we get off the call because you're really talking it up.
Adam
Of course, yeah, absolutely.
Katie
One last thing I wanted to ask you guys about, kind of just culminating this whole challenge you've done, and like we've discussed, it's just a way for you guys to experience all different kinds of fishing and all different kinds of locations and species. What resources would you recommend to somebody who is, you know, maybe not trying to do this challenge, but just wants to be a more well-rounded angler, wants to find cool spots and cool things to catch? Like, what kinds of things do you use to figure out where the fish are and what techniques you should use to catch them?
Holden
Oh, that's a great question. So what I've kind of learned from the challenge is the value of like networking, just meeting. There are so many species that are like hard to locate. So regarding online resources, the first, a lot of people go to Colorado Fishing Atlas and that's reliable. I'll say maybe 50% of the time from what Adam and I have experienced. For instance, like if you go on the Atlas and search golden trout, I guarantee you 100% all the bodies of water that it says have golden trout in it do not have golden trout in it. Believe me, Adam and I have checked. And it's so for the more obscure species, I'd say it's very unreliable. And that's when I started to kind of learn to like ask people. The place called Discount Fishing Tackle, it's a fishing store in Denver. It is, they have, they helped Adam and I so much through the challenge for instance like the red-eared sunfish like I never would have located them if they if the people who work there hadn't kind of told me hey the reddit like here's where you can find some of this like here's where they were stocked a few years ago here's where you can kind of catch some of them they were just I i promise I'm not sponsored by them. I, they were so helpful. So, I'd say firstly, kind of look online, if you're looking for a fish, but then go definitely talk to, local kind of go to your local fishing store to ask around there. And it's really rare for me to not know like where to find a fish after kind of I exhaust hold for those again and regarding techniques for like where to kind of like what techniques to use that is internet's your best friend for that generally speaking I've I'm gonna the obscure youtube videos where obscure youtube videos where a guy catches them using some crazy method have worked shockingly well for me. But generally speaking, blog posts tend to be really reliable. And just, again, talking with other experienced anglers, make sure to network is what I'm trying to ramble on and say.
Adam
In addition to that, I would definitely say, now that I work in a fly shop, especially if you're a fly fisherman, go to fly shops. They will hook you up with information. Now, they might not give you information about, like, a super rare species like the golden trout, but if you're trying to get up and catch a cutthroat or just any type of general species of trout, they're totally going to hook you up. In addition to that, I bought a book called the Colorado Fishing Guide and Atlas, and if you're looking for alpine lake information, it has, I mean, every alpine lake I can even imagine, just, like, with what fish are in there.
Katie
I gotta say I love you guys's recommendation to network because I feel like I don't hear that answer very often usually I get other also very useful tips like you know Colorado Fishing Atlas and stuff like that but I would say that most of the what I would call somewhat obscure species I've caught have come from somebody I know telling me like giving me a tip and same like I've given away lots of tips to my friends of like where they can go catch things that you wouldn't you wouldn't just be able to Google it online, or you'd have to do a lot of really deep digging and going back through stalking reports and saying, okay, they could be here based on the fact that they were stalked there a decade ago, but you don't really know. But to hear from somebody that like, no, I went there last summer and I caught that, that's, I feel like, a really, really underutilized resource. And it's probably the most effective of all of them. But I think a lot of people go straight to Googling, where can I catch a fill in the blank in Colorado? And like you said, The Colorado Fishing Atlas is, it's good. You know, if you want to catch a rainbow trout, go to the Colorado Fishing Atlas. Like, that's a great resource for that. But if you want to catch something a little bit more obscure that likely hasn't been stocked recently, the internet's full of a lot of people that just, like, say stuff that they don't really know or outdated information. So I think a lot of that online stuff needs to be taken with a grain of salt. So I really like that you mentioned the networking because that's a big thing. And, like, I mean, that's how we know each other is, like, I got hooked up with John. You guys got hooked up with John. You guys emailed me. And like now we all kind of know each other just having talked online. So that's a really good resource.
Adam
And I feel like I should definitely preface here that of anyone, especially looking for the golden trout, please don't go and comment on a blog post expecting to get information because you're not necessarily going to get it. Just especially for the golden trout. Me and Holden worked really hard. The information is out there. And if you really want to go and you're able to get that information and Google Maps Dive, I mean, you're willing. I feel like you're kind of deserving to have the opportunity to go up there. But don't just comment on a blog post and expect to get an answer that we're just going to hand it out to you. Because it's kind of part of the fun to really discover it on your own.
Holden
Definitely. If we told everyone about where they are, they will get fished out of existence. They will get heavily pressured. And as far as we know, this is a small population, and they are extremely rare in Colorado. So if you do find them and do go, be careful. Don't keep them. And we're not going to tell you where to find them. It's so much more rewarding on your own. You've got to trust me on this one.
Katie
I think that's the case across all of fishing. I think John and I talked about this a lot when he came on the show, that it's just half the fun is trying to find out where this stuff is. And then it's, it's even fun when you go there and you were wrong and you don't find anything. Like the worst thing that happens is you go fishing and you catch something else. Um, but then you've, then you've checked that off the list of like, okay, it's not there time to like go back to the drawing board and figure out, where these species are. Um, and like, I, I told you guys about before we recorded about, like the lake trout and it's like that's that was a tip I got from somebody and that can be found online it's not like a particularly difficult thing to find where to catch lake trout on a fly but still like you got to go and like research and look at things look at pictures looking stocking reports and then go out and say I don't know if I'm going to catch this I don't know if they're even in there still but like I'm going to go find out and that the whole process you know catching the fish and getting it in the net is a is five percent of the fun of the whole experience of of figuring it getting yourself out there. That's the other thing with the golden trout is even if you know where they are, most people aren't going to get there. And that's just the way it is. And it just makes it all the more special when you actually do.
Holden
Definitely. I also just want to add on something that I've kind of really helped is Parks and Wildlife is super helpful when it comes to helping regarding stocking reports and most importantly, regulations. I know that kind of people can somehow I've read through the fishing regulations thing and I know it can somehow it can be intimidating to find like hey is this allowed or not so if you're ever in doubt call I have literally never had a time where they've been unhelpful they've always like kind of helped to clarify because they're they're there to make sure one that like that the fish are safe and the environment safe. And two, that like, and they like, there is a strong motivation that like, they want you to catch fish. So if you ever endowed with like regulations, what's legal, what's not, make sure to call CPW. And oftentimes they'll call, they'll give you a hint for where to catch something. They, they have a, they have a good ear on it. That's a great point.
Adam
Yeah. And especially as it relates to bat country, I know I've called some of the senior biologists and they they are actually interested because they want you to go up there and they want you to tell them what you found you know like how is that population of fish doing so they've been super helpful I've asked them about especially as it relates to cutthroat just kind of near my in my area I've just been kind of curious on kind of what what it looks like so for sure just shoot those senior biologists a call they're your friend they'll help you out
Katie
that's a great tip just to just to finish up, I don't know how public you guys are in terms of, you know, people coming and talking to you, but do you have any way for people to reach out to you if they want to, like, follow you on social media or, like, email you or anything like that? If someone's interested in maybe coming to Fish Colorado and, you know, they've heard, okay, these two guys have caught, like, most of the species in the state. Is there any good way for people to talk to you?
Holden
Yeah, you could contact me, feel free to contact me by email. My name, my email's ryu, R-Y-U, Holden, H-O-L-D-E-N, at gmail.com. If you, if you're curious about our particular species, I'm more than willing to help out. Obviously, some of them I can't tell you because they're, for instance, the place where I caught the tiger muskie is private, and a few other species are very small populations, and I let you know, but the vast majority, I'd love to help you out. Please let me know. And if it's all right, there's a few species that Adam and I are still missing on the list. And we actually, we'd love to kind of reach out to the public as we've tried to kind of track down where these are in Colorado and have had very little luck. So if you know where to catch white bass or white bass and strike bass and flathead catfish in Colorado. Please, please shoot me an email. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, feel free to reach out. Sounds good.
Adam
Yeah, and if anyone has any questions, especially related towards fly fishing, feel free. I work at Vail Valley Anglers. I'll be up there all summer. Feel free to just stop by, ask for Adam. I'll be there four days a week. And if not, Adamthiret at gmail.com, And the last name is T-H-I-R-E-T. Yeah, just feel free to shoot me an email. I'm super happy to help anyone out who has any questions.
Katie
Well, that's awesome, guys. I am really looking forward to seeing like how the end of this challenge goes. I know you've got, tell me what all species you have left. I know you just listed the three that are like really, really puzzling you, but there are some that you just haven't gotten around to catching yet. What all is remaining for you guys?
Holden
Yeah, of course. So the main ones that are the main ones that the only ones that really left are the white bass, the blue catfish, the green sunfish. We mentioned that already. The mountain whitefish, the cocaine salmon. We haven't been able to get that one because Adam and I both have to leave for college in the fall. So and we only fish during the summer. The saw guy and the spalaky. We mostly have a line on where to catch those, but also any tips with those would also be really appreciated. So feel free to reach out.
Katie
Awesome. Well, I will keep in touch with you guys for sure. And maybe next time you come up here, we can go out fishing together and maybe try to get you your green sunfish or whitefish or lake trout.
Holden
Absolutely. If you hear any fireworks, you know a challenge is done.
Katie
It sounds good.
Holden
Is it okay? Can I give a quick in on the large grass carp problem that we have reaching out to the public? Gotcha. So Adam and I, ever since the challenge has begun, Adam and I have been tortured by a single fish. I am a fish biologist. I work at a lab studying these fish. And I do not make the assertion lightly that I have reason to believe that this is a state record grass carp. But for two years, we have tried every single tactic for carp that exists under the sun. You name it. We have used boilies. We have used bread. We have used corn. Everything. Attractants. Every rig imaginable. And, oh yeah, cherry tomatoes. Everything. I promise there's so much more that I can't recall. And what will happen is these ravenous trout will eat the bait out right from under us before the carp even get close. If you have any insight on how to catch this grass carp, we would love to hear it. I have succeeded in not making a Moby Dick metaphor, but only barely, because this is our white whale. So please, if you can help save our sanity, please.
Katie
All right, yeah, crowdsource. If there's any grass carp experts out there that know how to keep trout off of a corn and get a grass carp to bite, yeah, definitely reach out to me or either of the guys here, and it'd be fun to make that happen, get a giant grass carp.
Holden
Thank you.
Katie
Awesome. Well, I will let you guys get going. Hang around afterwards. I think we have a lot to talk about, but it was great talking to you guys, and I wish you the best of luck in the rest of your challenge.
Holden
Thank you. Thank you.
Katie
All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to head over to the website, fishuntamed.com, for all episodes and show notes. And also, please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also, if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me, and I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening, and I will be back in two weeks. Bye, everybody.
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