Ep 70: Winter Camping, Picky Fish, and the Perfect Cocktail, with Aldo Pescatore-Tardioli
This episode with Aldo Pescatore-Tardioli is the third in a series of episodes I’ve been doing with the crew of So Fly. In this episode, Aldo tells me about the group’s adventures backcountry ice fishing, and also their home river that’s known for being a challenging spot to fish. When he’s not fishing with the rest of the So Fly crew, Aldo works as a bartender, so we also dive into that aspect of his life, and his idea of the perfect fishing cocktail.
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed podcast - your home for fly fish in the backcountry. This is episode 70 with Aldo Pescatore-Tardioli on winter camping, picky fish, and the perfect cocktail. I would love to get a history on your time in the outdoors. How did you get introduced to the outdoors and specifically fly fishing? How'd you get into fly fishing?
Aldo
Yeah, I mean, well, I guess it was kind of like a family thing in the sense that, much like Mitch, I grew up in the nation's capital in Ottawa, and Ottawa, although a very boring city, sorry for anybody listening from Ottawa, but it is, it's a government town, but it's very clean, and it's very beautiful, and the access to the outdoors is very immediate, unlike, I would say, here in Toronto. Now Toronto has amazing parks and we're on the Lake Ontario and you can recreate pretty easily, but we had a giant provincial park, 20 minutes away from us where we could ski and snowshoe and camp and fish and all that kind of stuff in Ottawa. So we would go, yeah, my grandfather, he was a big angler and hunter and kind of at the time my sister and I were born though, I was born in 1986, He kind of stopped hunting, which was kind of a shame 'cause he used to raise pointers and that would have been cool to experience to have 20 pointers running around. But yeah, he would take me fishing and then when I was 10, my mom, for whatever reason, bought me a Fenwick fly fishing $70 fly fishing kit tire, which is like our Canadian equivalent of Walmart. And, uh, and I just started the three rough three rivers run through Ottawa, the Ottawa river, the Rideau and, and, uh, the Rio canal. And I would just ride my bike to the river, which was like five minutes from my house and downtown Ottawa. And kind of like, was just trying to figure it out. And then shockingly, a fly fishing shop opened in Ottawa when I was 13, it was an Orvis store. And, uh, I started going there and learning from them and one thing led to another and I started working at the store and then I met Mitchie and Yilma and started doing the podcast and fly fishing became again a big part of my life. I'd say later on in life, like in my thirties, which was cool. I'd always fly fish, but getting able to do the storytelling element of it and traveling so much like we do, like we're so lucky to be able to do and meet all these people, even within our own province. That was kind of my history in the outdoors. Is growing up in Ottawa and first fishing with my grandfather and then exploring by myself. And yeah, that's how it all started. That's how it all started.
Katie
You said Ottawa is kind of a boring town, but then I feel like you proceeded to describe a really amazing gateway to the outdoors. Do you mean that the city itself just doesn't offer a lot of interesting city life compared to something like Toronto? But it sounds like it did have some pretty good outdoor opportunities.
Aldo
Oh, yeah, it's amazing. Like, yeah, it's borders Quebec. The Ottawa River is the Quebec-Ontario border. And yeah, the Gatineau Hills are there. And it's not like these giant ski hills. But it's like Vermont-ish style elevation. And when we all finally got our driver's licenses, that's what we would do at night. It was night skiing and we'd go skiing in Gatineau Park and go camping in Gatineau Park. And actually my high school had a really cool program called Outdoor Ed when I was in grade 10. So what is that? What is that, a sophomore in the States? Which was really cool 'cause it was like, yeah, they taught you wilderness skills, which was cool. They teach you how to set up camp and the Otter River is really famous for whitewater rafting as well. And so we would do whitewater canoeing trips. We would do winter camping, like learn how to winter camp and like basic survival skills and stuff. So I found that that was really cool too, 'cause now, you know, after meeting Mitch and Yilma and going up to, I mean, we mentioned all the time in the podcast, but going up to one of our favorite places, Temagami, it's kind of brought that part of my life back to me, which is like the back country canoeing element that I learned in high school is now, oh, all of a sudden returned in my life, which is cool. And it's another one of those things where it's like, oh wow, look where fly fishing, look all the places fly fishing takes you, but in this case it took me full circle. Like it was When I first started fishing, fly fishing really seriously was when I was in high school and I was learning all these wilderness skills in high school and then university came and moving to Toronto and still fly fishing, but maybe not as much. And then my 30s hit and meeting Mitch and Yilma and starting SoFly and, well, they had already started it, but like me joining SoFly, kind of reintroduced me into all these skills that I had learned in my teens, but now I'm using them again, which was really cool.
Katie
I think a lot of kids have some sort of introduction like that to wilderness skills, either at a summer camp or something like that. But I wonder how many of them don't ever really get to use them because maybe they grew up and their hobby is soccer or something like that. It's not-- it doesn't come up again. I mean, how often are you just going out in the woods and trying to pitch a tent for fun? I mean, it comes up when you need to use that skill. So I think it's fun when you grow up and your hobbies are relevant to that because then all those skills you learned as a kid that were fun in themselves, you have a reason to use them. No one's just going to go try to build a fire for the sake of it. You want to use it for something. That's cool you got to follow up with those skills and make it a part of your life and career.
Aldo
Yes, it is cool. I wish coming from, I guess, maybe on Ontario perspective, I can't even say Canadian, but Ontario because we have so many provincial parks here and canoeing is such a big part of exploring and enjoying those parks. And I wish outdoor ed for me anyway, wasn't part of, it was an extracurricular, like it happened before and after class. So it'd be cool if it, I mean, it'd be cool if it was part of more curriculums, I guess, because especially in Northern communities, and maybe it is, and I don't know, but because your access to the outdoors is like very cool, and like maybe it could spark an interest in, who knows, a wilderness career, even.
Katie
Do you still do much in the winter sports world? Do you do much skiing or snowshoeing or anything like that? Like apart from fishing, not just trying to get into fish, but do you do any of it for fun?
Aldo
Yeah, I mean, the one not so great thing about Toronto is there's no skiing anywhere even close to here. So I would love to be able to ski more often, I think. But yeah, definitely snowshoeing and winter camping have come back into my life and that's really fun. And we do the Great Lakes Steelhead thing and those would be the winter sports I do more often than not. Like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna go snowshoeing just to go snowshoeing. I like it when it's part of like your little camping or ice fishing adventure. I can't say I enjoy snowshoeing that much.
Katie
Right, it's a means to an end.
Aldo
Yeah, it's a means to an end. But skiing, if I could ski every day, I would. I would, I really, really enjoy that. So maybe later in life I'll move to the mountains. Yeah.
Katie
And that's actually something I wanted to ask you about and I wasn't sure where it was gonna fit in but this works out nicely. 'Cause I was just looking you up before we started to see if there's anything interesting online. And I found an article that I think you wrote about like backcountry ice fishing, which like up in Temagami, which I wanted to ask you about like the logistics behind that. And what's your camp set up like when you're going ice fishing? And also just, do you do a lot of ice fishing?
Aldo
Yeah, again, this is another one of those things that I used to in Ottawa and then I didn't. And then after, especially meeting Mitch, who is also from Ottawa and also ice fished a lot. Okay, Ottawa is a kind of place where if you don't enjoy, like if you don't get out in the winter, you're gonna have the most miserable existence because it's like, it can get down to minus 30 Celsius anyway and it's cold and it's snowy there for a long time. So you're gonna have to kind of embrace it a little bit. Like even though it's a town of almost one million people, it's really fucking cold. (both laughing) And there's a lot of snow and you just go enjoy it, you know, kind of thing. Anyway, all that to say is, yeah, so after meeting Mitch and getting back into going up north to Temagami, yeah, is where we started winter camping. And their setup is pretty sweet. We don't cold camp, we hot camp. Oh, nice. So we use the brand of tents we use, They're called snow trekkers. And why I'm mentioning that is there's also a brand called Esker. And the ones that we use now anyway, they have frames. Whereas the Esker tents, you kind of have to tie them to trees and cut down a pole and kind of thing. But it's nice having the snow trekkers 'cause first of all, you don't have to ruin any trees, but you also have like a nice frame and then there's stoves. And we harvest some firewood from dead trees. And that's kind of our setup. So we've got sleds and snowshoes, like pull sleds and snowshoes, and we'll drag sleds in. And Mitch has a mobile ice fishing pop-up hut and a propane heater to keep that hot while we're on the ice. And then we have a bunch of tip-ups, and we'll punch holes and fish. And if anybody saw the content from that last year, it's a whole lot of hanging around drinking beer. (laughing) And actually I saw Mitch dance for the first time in my life, which is pretty amazing. And, but yeah, that's kind of our setup is we try to have enough places where you're warm. The tents do get pretty warm at night, but the first thing we kind of do in the morning after breakfast is go for a snowshoe to activate your body, you know, and keep your core temp high. And then the rest of the day is just spent kind of ice fishing and seeing where it goes. And some trips go better than others when it comes to ice fishing, like we don't have fancy sonars and stuff like, you know, the guys that are really serious about catching fish on the ice tend to have that kind of equipment. And it really helps. Shocking. But we're more there to like, you know, I would say immerse ourselves in the in the in the wilderness, like Temagami is. I know we go on and about it, but it is the last old growth forest stronghold in Ontario. So it's an untouched forest. And it really is like a really special place for sure.
Katie
Yeah, I was talking to Mitch about it. And it sounds very similar to the Ontario version, and maybe a more hardcore version of our boundary waters here, just vast and very set up for canoeing, just portaging around and paddling everywhere.
Aldo
Yeah, what's it called? The Driftless?
Katie
The Driftless area, yeah.
Aldo
Yeah, that seems-- what kind of reading I've been doing about the driftless area, it sounds very similar.
Katie
OK. what are you fishing for when you're out on the ice?
Aldo
There, it's mainly pike walleye and whitefish.
Katie
Okay.
Aldo
Yes, that's the-- Everybody in Ontario loves fishing for walleye or as they call it, pickerel.
Katie
Oh, they call it pickerel there?
Aldo
Yes.
Katie
What do you call pickerel?
Aldo
I don't think anybody thinks that pickerel is a fish. They think, yeah, it's funny, I'm on this crusade to make sure that walleye are called by the right name.
Katie
I've never heard that before.
Aldo
And you wouldn't if you weren't from this province. But walleye is a big game fish here. It's what, growing up watching fishing shows that were produced in Ontario or reading fishing magazines produced in Ontario, even to this day, it's a lot of walleye content. How to catch 'em, where to catch them. You could argue they're the best tasting freshwater fish, definitely in Ontario. Maybe whitefish would be better, but walleye are just delicious, especially from cold, clean water. They really are pretty tasty. So that's why they get written about so much because they're the most harvested fish 'cause they're the most delicious fish. We don't usually typically harvest too many. We eat a lot of walleye if we're really up north where it's very sustainable. But when we're ice fishing, we tend to have food with us anyway. So we'll keep a whitefish though. Love whitefish tacos.
Katie
So you're kind of picking and choosing. It's not necessarily a catch and keep trip or catch and release trip. It's kind of a, you're coming with some food, but you may keep one here or there if it fits the bill.
Aldo
Yeah, it's more like, I guess, would be species dependent. If we're talking about Temagami specifically, Lake Temagami was overfished for walleye. So we try to, there's a big rehabilitation program going. And it's not to say people don't keep walleye, but we tend to not. And it's got a good whitefish population, so we keep the whitefish, they're tasty. And we throw back the pike, 'cause I'm not trying to clean a pike in the... There's also this added element where you're ice fishing and then you're winter camping, and then you're cleaning fish, and then you smell like that, and then you go to the tent, and it's just like, I don't know.
Katie
There's times where cleaning a fish, It's just not ideal. And if you don't need the food, then it's easier to throw it back.
Aldo
Yeah, there's a lot of lakes in Temagami too that are stocked with splake. And splake, it's a put and take thing. And we'll go and take a bunch because they can't reproduce naturally, or allegedly anyway. and if we're really looking to catch and keep, that's what we'll do. For the wild fish, we try to put them back as much as we can.
Katie
Do you have many lakers there? Are lakers common in that part of the country?
Aldo
Yep, for sure. Yeah, we definitely, definitely. We've just never caught one. Yeah, but Lake Temagami has some pretty amazing lake trout fishing. Yeah, there's a, yeah, it's got a lot of lake trout. Yeah, and there's a lot of lake trout in the area. It is one of our indigenous species.
Katie
Now, why have you guys not caught them? Have you not tried to catch them, just not targeting them? I assume you probably go a little bit deeper than some of the other species that you might be trying to catch.
Aldo
Honestly, I think it's kind of like the area we're in. Like Lake Temagami is a massive lake. And I think where we are, it's more walleye, pike, bass, whitefish. That's not to say there aren't lakers there. But I know there's other areas of the lake where the probability of catching one is significantly higher. And we don't go that far into the lake, so we're sticking around the town, our campsites or whatever. Not for any good reason, we just haven't caught one.
Katie
Okay, fair enough. Yeah,
Aldo
yeah. There's no good reason. We're just blowing it. We're just out there blowing it.
Katie
I asked Mitch a very similar question. It sounds like a very rude question when I think back, but we were talking about the the Aurora trout and he said that, you know, you guys have gone up and tried to catch them, but, um, didn't quite succeed. I think I asked him the same thing. I was like, why didn't you catch one as, as though it's as easy as just deciding to catch one. But, uh, you know, when you're targeting them, you know, you want to kind of think about why didn't it work out? Like, was it the conditions or were we not in the right spot? Uh, so I was just kind of wondering like why, why it hasn't played out that way.
Aldo
Yeah. I mean, oh man, that trip, um, you know, that trip was like, it's funny. 'cause we fished a lake that was more like a pond and for two days straight. And maybe, I don't know why we didn't catch one. Like maybe it was a depth thing, maybe it was a fly choice thing, a time of year thing. But, and then when it comes to lakers, I think it's probably the fish in my whole life I've targeted the least. 'Cause it's just not something, it's not really a fly rod species. Like you really have to catch like ice out to get them shallow. and then after that they're like in hundreds of feet of water, which is like, you know, it's just not going to happen for, for fly anglers. Um, we're, we've been, a bunch of guys have been bugging us to go down to the Niagara river cause the Niagara river gets a run of lake trout up, uh, all the way to Niagara falls. Actually. Um, I don't know how far, I don't know if they go all the way up to the base of the falls, but that's the section of river that they run up. Um, and I know guys that these guides that's that swing for them. and so they catch them on the swing, which we haven't done yet. And it sounds amazing because they get up to like 15 pounds.
Katie
I had no idea that there was any sort of river fishery for them really. Like I didn't know a lake trout could be caught on a swing.
Aldo
Neither did I. But yeah, there was a few people that do just that. And it's funny because the season opens like, like the ministry opens the season on January 1st. So I know a lot of guys that spend their New Year's day, like they can't wait to go to the Niagara River.
Katie
Wow.
Aldo
But the Niagara River is really intimidating. It's huge, it's scary, you can't put a boat into it and waiting it is like not an option either. So you're basically, you know, spay casting from shore.
Katie
Yeah, okay.
Aldo
But apparently if you hit the run, it's like bananas.
Katie
Yeah, that's crazy. I feel like a lot of species have their stereotypical habitat. You know, you think of smallmouths, you might think of like a gravel bottom river, but you can find them in some lakes and there's a lot of species like that. Like I think of walleye as a lake fish, but the river I grew up along had plenty of walleye and I'd catch them pretty regularly. But lake trout's one of the few species that when I think of it, I think it only has one habitat. In my mind it doesn't live anywhere but really, really deep lakes. And it hasn't even occurred to me that they could live in a river and run up a river. That's just, it's never even come to mind that that was a possibility.
Aldo
Yeah, I haven't done yet, so I wish I could speak more on it. I imagine they're chasing some sort of bait fish, but yeah, it's pretty cool. And there are actually some rivers that feed lakes in the region of Temagami that also get a weird kind of lake trout run, where they choose to run up that river, in search of bait or spawning habitat. And that's something we definitely wanna do because that's, like you said, it's a really rare opportunity because these fish are behaving in a very niche kind of way. They're big fit, I have to tell you, they can get really big. It would be super cool to target that for sure.
Katie
We have a lake around here up in the mountains probably an hour and a half from my house that has lake trout that rise to dry flies. They're pretty small for lake trout. They're fine for any other trout. They're probably 15 to 17 inches or so.
Aldo
Nice.
Katie
that's got lakers and rainbows and they come to the surface and I hooked one on a on like a parachute Adams and it was it was really interesting how it behaved because it just immediately dove as deep as it could go and this lakes really really deep. Okay. So they're coming up to the surface taking these dry flies and then just like rocketing like torpedoing straight down and you just watch your fly line just drive down over the shelf. So I'm not sure if there's a lot of places where lake trout do that but it's it's kind of similar to your situation in that these fish are just surprising. The things they do, they've got a very well-known habitat and list of habits, and then you find these unique locations where they just do something that seems totally outside their typical behavior.
Aldo
Yeah, which is so cool, right? I mean, I guess that's why Jurassic Lake is so famous. There's all these trout that are gargantuan. Yeah. they do this and you're like, "What?" Which is cool, I guess that's what keeps us exploring. Sorry, when you say here, where is here for you?
Katie
Oh, here for me is Colorado.
Aldo
Oh, right. Okay. Great. Where in Colorado?
Katie
I'm outside Denver, but we're fishing all through the mountains mostly. There are fisheries around here, but I tend not to focus too much on our warm water stuff. Not because I have anything against warm water, I actually really, really love warm water fishing, but for us, it's like downtown Denver. You might be casting for a small mouth and carp, but there's tires in the water and plastic bags floating down, which I just don't -It just doesn't do it for me. I'm generally going for trout up in the mountains.
Aldo
I got you. I got you. I've been in Colorado, never Denver. I was lucky enough to fish the South Platte and the frying pan, and the Roaring Fork actually.
Katie
Oh, yes. That's a nice area.
Aldo
Yes. The South Platte was like I definitely had read about the frying pan and the roaring fork before. The South Platte was a bit of a surprise in the sense that I wasn't planning on fishing it, but it ended up being maybe one of my all-time favorite rivers.
Katie
Really? It's interesting you say that. The South Platte is what goes through Denver, so it is the one with the tires and stuff, but it does start in the mountains. It's very pretty up there, but I don't know when you were here, but boy, does it get hammered by people.
Aldo
Yes, I was there in 2017, 18.
Katie
Okay, so not too long ago.
Aldo
Not too long ago and I was there in the spring. It was pre-runoff fishing.
Katie
Where did you hit it?
Aldo
11-mile canyon. 11-mile, 13-mile?
Katie
11-mile, yes.
Aldo
11-mile. Man, it was gorgeous and the fish were gorgeous and very agreeable. I don't know if I was there at some frequently warm time of year for April, but it was hot. I remember being just in a shirt. no sweater or anything. And then I went skiing the next day, it was great.
Katie
Colorado's awesome. Where'd you ski?
Aldo
Well, I went to Vail.
Katie
Okay.
Aldo
And then after that, I made my way to the Frying Pan and then didn't realize that the frying pan was so close to Aspen. And I was like, well, I'm here, so I might as well see what this is all about.
Katie
The Frying Pan is a great place to fish.
Aldo
It's beautiful and lots of fish. Amazing. Amazing, amazing place. Amazing place. The Roaring Fork was beautiful. It's another stunning river. I didn't really catch a whole lot of fish in the Roaring Fork, but 11 Mile and Frying Pan was very awesome for fish catching.
Katie
I have not had much luck on the Roaring Fork myself, although I kind of like you said, you just never really tried Lakers too much. That's kind of how I feel about the Roaring Fork. I fished it a handful of times, but every time it's kind of, I'm going to stop for an hour or two before I go somewhere else or something like that. I don't feel like I've really dedicated an appropriate amount of time to fishing it. I don't want to chalk it up as a river that I don't like or a river that's bad fishing because everything I've heard is that it's fantastic. I just have not spent an adequate amount of time on it.
Aldo
Just looking at it, it looks like you're somewhere in pictures of New Zealand that you see that greeny kind of water and big boulders. It was really pretty. I was like, "Holy shit, I had no idea it was so close to Obviously, Aspen's right there. It's Aspen. It's been in movies. I don't know. [laughter] It's got an airport. I was like, "Yes, it was cool. It was a cool experience. Colorado's rad."
Katie
Were you just here to fish and ski, or did you have something else?
Aldo
That's right.
Katie
Okay.
Aldo
No, just fishing and skiing was great. I was living a trout bum life for a month.
Katie
Yes, I was telling Mitch, "You guys have to make a trip down here when we do some alpine lakes, because the rivers are fun. I do love river fishing, but I feel like the alpine lakes are something that's kind of unique to at least this kind of region, being able to get up to 12,000, 13,000 feet and get some of those lakes that are above tree line. And there's some big fish in some of those lakes.
Aldo
That’s, that must be an amazing setting.
Katie
It is. It is.
Aldo
So you like hike up you obviously hike up, or you drive to a point and then walk in kind of thing?
Katie
Yeah, usually a lot of hiking, but it's nice 'cause it keeps the crowds away.
Aldo
Yeah, sick.
Katie
But anyway, going back to Temagami, I talked to Mitch quite a bit about it, but have you guys been ice fishing up there recently? Like, is it already snowy enough to get up and start hitting the ice?
Aldo
We haven't been up there yet. We tend to go up there a lot in January and February, just 'cause December's a really, usually a typically busy month for all of us in our other day-to-day lives. But I do know the crew up there and they are ice fishing and it's fishing well. They already have eight inches of ice on the lake and they've started ice fishing and it looks like they're having a good time. Like the chef and there's an awesome food and beverage program there now at Temagami Outfitting and the chefs were sending me pics of fish they were catching right in front of the, basically right in front of the building, which is cool 'cause they're right on the water. So it's cool, yeah. No, we typically go in January and February when we know the ice is thick and when we have more free time.
Katie
Yeah.
Aldo
And that's when we tend to fish the most up there in the winter anyway.
Katie
How often do you make it up?
Aldo
Well, I lived there this summer.
Katie
Oh, I think Mitch did mention that.
Aldo
Yeah, I helped them launch that food and beverage program. I have a background in hospitality. And so I was up there for almost six months straight. But in a typical year, we'll go up maybe once, twice during the winter for like four days at a time. And then in September, we do some hosted trips on some brook trout rivers there. So this year, Yilma and I did three weeks straight there in September. So September is a big month for us in Temagami. And then we like going in the, we like doing one summer trip it's fun and it's hot and you can swim and it's awesome. And kind of like we'll do like one trip in the spring, one trip in the summer, and then we're there basically for the whole month of September.
Katie
That’s pretty cool.
Aldo
So yeah, they've become like, I would say that they were, well, I don't have to say they were our very first like supporter in like from a lodge outfitter perspective. And so we've all become, I would like to think we've all become friends and we go to collect concerts together in Toronto because the couple that owns it, they live down the street from all of us and so we've all become friends. Once we go up there as often as we can, we love it up there. It's awesome.
Katie
Was it just paradise being up there for six months straight?
Aldo
Yeah. Well, it was a lot of work. I don't know if I can say it was exactly paradise, but it was awesome not being in the city during especially this time.
Katie
Oh, I'm sure.
Aldo
With COVID and whatnot. Yeah, it was great. I mean, yeah, it was awesome. Days off spent on the water. Even when you're working, you're in this beautiful setting. And everybody who's coming there is there on vacation, so everyone's in the best mood ever. So yeah, it was cool. And then also just getting to know the town and people in the town as opposed to just showing up, going on a camping trip and coming back and just seeing the dynamics of, 'cause it's not a big town, it's like 1,000 people. So it was cool meeting community members, especially after having gone up there for you know years year over year kind of thing yeah it was cool
Katie
how did COVID affect that sort of industry with people coming up traveling to go fishing I don't I I don't think we really talked about it at all with Mitch or Yilma about like what Canada has been like during COVID because I I haven't really been in the loop on what it's like up there but you know how are you guys affected during that well
Aldo
Toronto specifically was they endured the longest lockdown, I think for any part of the country. And I mean, a lot of it has to do with we're the biggest city. We have the highest population density. It kind of makes sense.
Katie
Naturally, yeah.
Aldo
Naturally, we would probably have more measures than some other places, including Northern Ontario. How did it affect the outdoor industry? Well, it affected some Northern Ontario fly-in lodges. Very, very, like a lot of them actually ended up closing, unfortunately, because they rely on predominantly American clients. And so when the border was closed, that wasn't an option. But with a place like Temagami, which is, or sorry, Temagami Outfitting, which is mainly a backcountry canoe outfitter, canoe rentals, shuttling services, guiding services, food services. It was a boon for them. Because you didn't have enough canoes to rent some days, some weeks and some days. 'Cause everyone was like, "Well, I can't do anything else. "I guess I'm going outside." Our outdoor stores here, like MEC, which I guess would be REI for you. Okay, yeah. You know, like that type of store. Their shelves were bare. Like everyone was like, you know, everyone was like, "I guess we're going camping." Like everybody bought tents and everybody bought canoes and everybody bought just, it was the only thing you could do really for a while. And that's what people did. And you know, stand-up paddle boards and mountain bikes, like it was, it's like impossible to buy a mountain bike for a while. And so for that, like kind of like that self-exploratory type of outdoor industry, it was huge for them. This is the two busiest years ever for Temagami outfitting. And but, you know, on the flip side of that, full service fishing lodges, you know, especially ones that were serviced by a plane, it was awful for them. And actually a lot of them ended up closing.
Katie
So the ones that were more of a destination experience, those ones did not do as well as the ones who are catering to people who are just driving up and making a weekend out of it.
Aldo
Correct. Yeah, because it's a huge American clientele base and a lot of these lodges, they've been around for a while and the ownership has been around for a while and they're reliant on the customer base they've built over 20, 30 years of operation. The ones that survived or even thrived were the newer lodges or lodges that have a hardcore marketing campaign, which a lot of these little lodges countrywide even, province-wide for sure, don't. Right. And the people that we work with, I don't know if Mitch or Yilma mentioned, we're lucky enough to go to this amazing flying lodge called Esnagami. And Eric and his team there are very up on social media marketing, web-based marketing, and even print. When the pandemic came along, Eric's like, "Oh, I'm going to lose 70% of my business because Americans can't come here. I better start marketing to Canadians." And that's exactly what he did. I think he didn't do as well as he would have had the border been open, but he almost was at max capacity.
Katie
Which is pretty awesome. Yeah, I mean, considering the circumstances, I feel like even having 75% your capacity is probably more than what most companies could expect.
Aldo
Oh, yeah, it's amazing. Because everything being the same, what I mean by that is if you go to a fly-in lodge in Northern Ontario, the fishing is going to be bonkers. Nobody fishes up there. Nobody's fishing these lakes and these rivers, right? If they're managed well, like Eric's lodges at Esnagami, you know, like he's pretty strict with slot limits and stuff despite being in literally the middle of nowhere. And the fishing's incredible. So if the fishing's incredible everywhere, well, you know, you don't have to worry about selling that. It's just more like you have to worry, then you have to worry about selling again. And I have to imagine if you've had a lodge for like 20, 30 years, it's exhausting to have to do that. and the traditional marketing channels of fishing shows, like going to, driving to bring, buying a tent or desk space, desk space? Booth space at a fishing convention, which is where a lot of these lodges market normally, went away. You couldn't come to Toronto and set up a booth at the convention center and sell these, know, this amazing trip anymore. You know, all that went away and it's like, okay, well, all that goes away and all of a sudden you have to do like web-based marketing and you're not used to that and it's like, oh my God, like, no wonder why a lot of them closed.
Katie
Well, I was going to say, I'm sure a lot of them also rely on like repeat customers. Like they're not too worried about marketing because they're like, I don't need, you know, 100% new customers. I need to get 25% new customers and the other 75% are people coming back again and again. If those people go away, suddenly it's like I have to come up with a marketing plan that maybe I didn't even need before because I didn't have to market anybody.
Aldo
100%. Yeah, you have your base clientele. It's mainly repeat clientele. Every time we're at Esnagami, again, I'm speaking from a small case study, I guess you could say, but most people that were there were like, "We've been coming here for 10 years, 15 years, 7 years, 20 years, we love it here, we come here every year. Right. (laughs) You know, and so yeah, you're right, when that went away for these lodges, it was like, oh, fuck, you know, like, what, like, uh-oh. And you know what, a lot of them probably were reaching retirement age anywhere, and they're like, ah, you know what, let's just sell. Like, what's, you know, it's just time. Which might be good and bad, it'll be interesting to see what the lodge landscape is in the next three years, because again, doing what we do, We're trying to highlight Ontario and we get to go to these lodges, which is amazing. But we also get to learn about the fabric of our fishing industry in Ontario, which is cool. I really enjoy that. It'll be cool to see how that changes in the next three years. Are there new owners? Will lodges look different than they always did or will they operate in a different way? Will there be less lodges? Do people care about going to a lodge? I don't know.
Katie
When you wonder how many people who picked up fishing and hunting during COVID, how many of those people are going to stick with it? There might be people who needed a hobby that they could do away from their friends and they do it for a year or two and then they're like, "I enjoyed it but I don't really need to keep doing it now that I can go back to the bars and restaurants." How many people are going to stick with that as a lifelong hobby versus just giving it up, selling their gear and never going again.
Aldo
Yeah, it's a fair point. What's the retention percentage of people who, I'm sure some people camped and were like, "How have I not been doing this my whole life?" But I'm sure a lot of people camped and were like, "I cannot wait to never do this again."
Katie
Right, I hate this so much.
Aldo
I definitely know, having, again, been up at Temagami all summer long, I definitely saw those two types of people. I saw more of the people who were like, "Wow, that was an incredible experience. "I don't understand why. "I've never done that before," kind of thing. But there were a few people who were like, "Eh."
(both laughing)
Aldo
Maybe buying a tent was a bad idea.
Katie
I know those people exist, but I can't help but think, how can you go? I mean, I haven't even been to Temagami, but I can 100% guarantee I would love it there, just based on the things I've heard. And I just can't imagine how someone could go to a place like that and just be like, "Eh." I don't know.
Aldo
Yeah, well it's like those alpine lakes, right? It's this place that, if you really do get into the back country of Temagami, or I can assume the back country of Colorado, it's a place where time has kind of stood still. It's still just, it's the same trees, and it's the same fish swimming in the waters that have been for hundreds and hundreds of years, and for a brief moment of time, you're immersed in that environment. So yeah, you're right. Who wouldn't walk away from that change?
Katie
Yeah. That is a really interesting point. If you're in a city, excluding a couple of the cities that are even a couple hundred years old, but it's so new. I mean, you can think about how much has changed even in the past 200 or 300 years. And you go to some of these other places outdoors, and you're just like, wow, this is Things have changed, obviously, over the centuries. But for the most part, yeah, I mean, things have been the way they've been for much longer than we can understand as a human mind. Our days are measured in minutes and seconds, not thousands and thousands of years. And it is really interesting to think about how it's just that's how it's looked for ages. Although in our Alpine lakes, specifically, they did not always have fish. Most of them were barren back in the day. They've mostly been stocked with native fish that were native to our rivers, and they've just gone and put them in all those lakes for people to fish for, which does seem a little bit, they feel a little bit bastardized having just stocked fish, 'cause you feel like they're wild. They seem wild, they're our native fish, but they were not in those lakes historically. And I feel like that's, I would assume Temagami's different than that, if I had to guess. I would guess that those lakes have had fish for ages.
Aldo
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And there is stocking that happens.
Katie
Oh, sure, sure.
Aldo
There's a, you know, there's, and very random, like, the ministry stocks some lakes from water bombers, so like, you know, like forest fighting planes. Yes. (laughs) You know, they'll fill their tanks with fish and just dive bomb a lake in the middle of nowhere that nobody could ever get to. And they're like, "Well, stock that one." You're like, "Why?" (laughs) You're like, "Okay." But yeah, that's how the ministry stocks these lakes sometimes, and you're just like, But okay, like sure, I guess.
Katie
I guess it works, yeah, or you wouldn't do it.
Aldo
Yeah, I guess, yeah. I don't know who's gonna go fish for those fish, but cool. But that's cool, I had no idea, I thought, yeah, I had no idea those alpine lakes were, I mean, now saying that, it's like, right, of course, like, you know, these are probably, there's probably not a whole lot of life or food happening in those cold lakes, right?
Katie
There is life, but it's not as prolific as a lot of the lower lakes or the rivers. There's like scuds and there's some hatches, minimal hatches, but yeah, they are not as productive as... They're as productive as you'd expect a lake that high up to be. I could be wrong about this, but I think a lot of them were stocked originally as food for miners and stuff that were up there. They put fish in there specifically to feed people who needed fish. And that, I think, has morphed into a recreational fishery now that they stock for that. And a lot of them, I think, do have sustaining populations of fish at this point, but they also do still stock a lot of those lakes.
Aldo
Right. Yeah. I think, actually, yeah, I think a lot of the stocking that happened, at least in Algonquin Park here or whatever, was for railway workers as well as a food source. It's like, well, let's make sure these fish don't run out. You know, like, yeah, that's really interesting. That's cool.
Katie
So two things I wanted to ask you about, and actually one of them was brought up by Mitch and one was brought up by Yilma. They both told me to ask you about something that I asked them about and they were like, "Ah, Aldo's the person for this." So Yilma, we were talking about, because he was a little bit newer to fly fishing, which I hadn't realized. And we were just talking about getting in like deep nerdy into the entomology stuff. He's like, "You should ask Aldo. "He really nerds out on the entomology, "the bugs, the flies that match 'em." Is that true or did he make that up about you?
Aldo
I think it's both true and untrue. I certainly enjoy knowing those things. Okay. Specifically when it comes to, I would say, so the river we fish more often than not, we mention on the podcast all the time, is the Credit River. It's like 40 minutes from our house. And it's a very particular river. Like it's not like one of your West Coast rivers is like jam packed full of fish, you know, like our fish, the fish population in this river is very low and that's not to say you can't sustain one. It's just for whatever, like, I mean, it's a catch and release river as well, but it's not stocked. So, you know, and so, you know, we're catching good numbers of fish, but it's a, yeah, it's a very particular river, very spooky fish. And so in that river specifically, yeah, getting to know the bugs in it and how they behave. And you know, like the fish very rarely rise in that river too. So when you see one, like to catch them on dry flies is this new challenge we've kind of discovered also this year, as we've, you know, kind of found sections of the river where they tend, they're actually are rising. Like you would always see like a random rise here or there, like a pattern feeding fish.
Katie
Why is that? Is there just not a heavy hatch or do the fish feed on something else?
Aldo
No, there are certainly nights where it's just exploding with… it's a very cold river.
Katie
Okay.
Aldo
So it's a lot of mayflies and stoneflies, especially in the headwaters, which is amazing. And there's still wild brook trout there. And, you know, it doesn't really get that many caddis, which tend to live in water that's a little bit warmer than where you find stone flies and mayflies. But unfortunately, the river is warming, as everything is warming. And it used to get this prolific, like, Canada Day, so July 1st, Independence Day, July 4th. In that window of July 1st to 4th, used to get this epic green drake hatch, which doesn't happen anymore.
Katie
Oh, really, just stopped?
Aldo
Which is too bad. It's not as prolific anymore. Yeah, and we don't see it too often anymore, and it's really hitting the lottery if you're on the river at that time, 'cause it's like, that is one time where if you're on that river and that is happening, they're going buck wild. And the little fish rise like crazy, like little four, six-inch dinks.
Katie
Like little fish do, yeah.
Aldo
Yeah, like little fish do, they go bananas. but the bigger fish, unlike when I went to Montana or Colorado or whatever, you see these very large fish rising very happily, in a pattern. Every once in a while, if you stay out late on the credit, it's starting to turn into a huge tangent. No, on that river, it's definitely good to know your bugs for sure. And more importantly, not so much know your bugs, but know when they're showing up. Like time of year, time of day, and then I feel like you can, but entomology, not really my thing. I do like knowing fly patterns, though fly patterns, I'm a little fly obsessed. I have way more flies than I ever use.
Katie
Yeah, well I think that's kind of a common thing. Flies are made to sell to anglers, not to fish. I mean, you can have five fly patterns and be just as successful when you go out, but it's fun to look in your box.
Aldo
Exactly, I think I use 5% of the flies I actually do have. I mean, I use them a lot, but I mean, if I open the fly box, let's say there's 95 flies, I'm using three of them over and over again. But yeah, no, I think there's a, when I first worked in a fly shop in my teens, there was a gentleman there who was like the resident fly tire, and he was actually studying entomology at school. So at that point I knew more than I ever did. And I've since forgotten most of it. But I think if I nerd out about anything when it comes to fly fishing, I think it would probably be fish behavior more than, and fish habitat, I think more than their food. Even when I was in, you know, I kind of caught myself in Texas, like we were recently, we're down there fishing for redfish. And the first time we were down there, I was always like, "Whoa, what's that? "What's this? "I don't know, what's cool? "Ooh, a dolphin." But this time, it was like, it was like, you know, I was definitely more curious about like, "Oh, why is this fish doing that?" Or like, "Why, when it ate my fly this way, "why did that happen as opposed to that other fish?" Like, and then, you know, the guys who were awesome, Matt and Joe, you know, they're like, "Okay, well, when you see a fish swimming like this, "It means it's eating in this kind of way. "And if it's doing this, it's eating this thing." And learning those behaviors, I think, is what, that's what interests me anyway. 'Cause, yeah, like I mean, you know, if I'm talking about Temagami, like you go to the rivers there, you know the bugs that are already there 'cause there's only a few that exist up there, you know, kind of thing. So it's like, I don't know. But yeah, no, I guess to answer your question, a very long-winded no. I don't learn about entomology, but at the same time, yeah, understanding what they're eating and understanding fish behavior is the key to success, I think. And I think what's so fun about fishing the Credit River is that it is a tough river to fish, so that when you're in a scenario, like I've gone to Pennsylvania or Montana or whatever, it's like, I'm not trying to say that people don't know how to fish down there, but I'm like, this is pretty fucking easy.
Katie
They don't have to know as much.
Aldo
When you go from a river that has, I don't know, 100 fish for every river mile to a place that has 20,000 fish per river mile, like the Madison or whatever, it's like, oh my God, there's fucking fish everywhere.
Katie
You're gonna find some stupid fish that'll eat anything.
Aldo
Yeah, exactly. I'm not saying you don't have tough days down there, but I'm just saying your probability percentage goes up.
Katie
Right, right, absolutely.
Aldo
Just 'cause there are more fish. And I'm sure if the credit chain, if two years from now the brown trout population explodes for whatever reason, I'm sure people are gonna have awesome success. It's just, it's a river we tend to not send beginners 'cause I feel like it would really frustrate you. There's a great tailwater here called the Grand River, which is stocked with browns. And that's a great river to learn on 'cause it's big and there's tons of hatches of caddis and mayflies and it's like…
Katie
Your classic fly fishing setup, like what you're looking for.
Aldo
Yeah, it's super fun, you know? And there are big fish in there as well, but there's something about fishing a cold, free stone with tricky wild fishes. That's kind of what I like. It's rewarding, yeah.
Katie
Yilma mentioned that I don't remember what the context it came up in, but he said something it was an aside. And he said, oh, the credit, but that's kind of a different situation than normal. But he didn't really elaborate on why. And now I think I'm gathering what it was about the credit that makes it a little bit unique.
Aldo
Yeah, it's the fish behavior, I think. I think if you're, again, you're always gonna have an outlier fish that's gonna be like, oh, you show up and it's rising, pattern rising or something, or oh, it's this, or oh, it's that. I think you're always gonna have an outlier. And actually, this year, more than ever, there were a lot of rainbows in the river, which was interesting. It's mainly known for its wild brook trout in the West Branch, and then in the main stem, it's known for its amazing, big, beautiful brown trout. I'd say that for a long time, it was a lot of people catching a very few How can I put this properly? I think a lot of people went there and didn't catch fish. Right. Then they went to the Then that's why the Grand got very popular or the Brookies. The Brookies are Brookies. They're aggressive, they're hilarious. They'll eat an ant in February if you present it to them. You know, and so, you know, a lot of my friends who are curious about fly fishing, and you know, it's so close to the city, take them on the Brookie stretch and it's super fun. Because you can be like, and this is what dry fly fishing is and they're like, ooh, you know, and you're like, well, fun. But yeah, the credit is unique. Like, you know, when I first moved to Toronto, Mitch and I, going back to, you know, growing up in Ottawa, we didn't have trout streams in Ottawa. It was a lot of big, a lot of warm water fishing, bass, pike, et cetera. And if you wanted to do trout, It would probably be a lake, but they didn't have the kind of resources to learn about lake fishing as we do now. You know, sinking lines were just starting to come out. The cast was like shit. And it was like, you know, and so we would go fly fishing upstate New York. We would go to the Au Sable. We would go to the streams in around Malone, like the shadow gay and the salmon and the marble, which is all amazing, you know, amazing water. And so when I got to Toronto and went to the Credit River for the first time, I was like, oh my God, this is look like these streams that I've seen in upstate New York. So you start fishing them like those streams and I knew way less than I do now. And then it was like, okay, one year, you know, like every time, if I caught any fish, like six inch, it doesn't matter, I was like, you know, setting off fireworks. And now we're, you know, we're, I would say this year specifically was definitely our most successful in terms of like larger fish or like consistently going out and catching fish, but year over year you start learning the river, you start meeting people and talking to them, and you start realizing that, yeah, first of all, there are more fish than you think, but there still aren't a lot of fish in that river, and the fish that are there are spooky as hell. And they feed in a very particular way, and it's cool learning that. It's cool learning your home water.
Katie
Oh yeah.
Aldo
And so I think that's what Yilma would mean by that, where it's like, it's not a river, some people will message us, They're like, "Hey, love the show. "Where should we go fishing?" On the credit, and we won't send them there, not because we don't want them to catch, not because we don't want them to fish there, because we do think it's beautiful, and it would be a great representation of our wilderness, but it's because they might have a shit time. They might kill it, and it would be amazing, and they'd be like, "Oh, check this out, we killed it." And it was great, and it was fun, and thanks for sending us there, but we tend to send people not there if we want them to actually have a good time. But honestly, since the advent of more modern techniques like the modern streamer fishing and Euro nymphing and stuff, there's definitely been higher success rates. That's what makes that river unique. I'm assuming that's what you're talking about.
Katie
Oh yeah, I'm sure. As you were talking about it, the picture was just forming. 'Cause I should have followed up with him when he said that, but I just assumed it was one of those things that people knew what makes it unique. I was like, "Oh, okay, it's just one of those different rivers."
Aldo
Well, it's also unique because it's barely 40 kilometers away from my house right now, which is a city of five million. And then after that, there's a suburb of one million people and then it's 15 minutes away from a suburb of 500,000 people. And then here is this tumbling, roaring, free stone river with wild trout in it with a strain of brook trout that have been there for hundreds of years. And so if there's anything unique about that river, it's that, it's that I'm in like, I live right close to Chinatown and I can go from my house here and then go finish the workday and then go fish for trout, wild trout at the end of the day. So if there's any, if the most unique aspect of it and why it's so special. I think that's why it's so special. 'Cause like, how is that still happening?
Katie
I had no idea. Did you say Toronto has 5 million people?
Aldo
Yeah, with all of it's like, like what's called like the greater Toronto area, which is like the amalgamation of all the, Toronto proper has just, we're just shy of 3 million.
Katie
I would not have guessed that. Like, I don't know what I would have guessed, but I wanna say Denver has under a million. And I would have guessed that Toronto is very comparable to Denver.
Aldo
We're like Chicago size.
Katie
Wow. I've been to Toronto, but I guess I just didn't realize how big it actually was.
Aldo
Yes, we're very similar to Chicago in terms of not quality of architecture, but in terms of size of population. I've been to Chicago several times, it feels the same.
Katie
Other question I wanted to ask you based on something that Mitch said. That was Yilma's reference to you. He said that you're into the entomology. And to be fair, he didn't say that you're super deep into the science of entomology. He just said that you're more into the fly selection, matching whatever's hatching, things like that. And Mitch, I asked him about cocktails because I saw online that he really likes cocktails. And so I was asking like, "Oh, are you the camp bartender?" And he was like, "No, you need to talk to Aldo 'cause he is a bartender." And he seemed to enjoy the consumption of the cocktails. I think I asked him like, what part of it does he like the most? Was it the crafting, the experimentation with the recipes? And he's like, I like the effect of alcohol on my body.
Katie
(both laughing) So he said to ask you about kind of the more nitty gritty side of drink crafting and bartending and stuff like that. So I just wanted to hear, how does that, does that factor into your fishing at all? Do you like to incorporate the two? Do you make cocktails specifically for fishing? Like, how does that work? Are those two parts of your life
Aldo
Those are awesome questions. Yeah, those are awesome questions. I think, first of all, I think Mitch is selling himself short a little bit. Like, you know, I think one of Mitch's greatest qualities is his curiosity. And he loves cocktails and he loves cocktail culture, especially tiki drinks. And he's built himself quite a little bar at home and he loves learning about making drinks and he's actually pretty good at it. Maybe not professionally, but like, but you know, he makes a good drink. Mitch makes a good drink. I guess to answer your question, there's a few ways about answering that question. But I think in general, we've decided to, because we've all been, Mitch and I specifically have been fishing for over 20 years. Like we don't really stress about, unless it's like for a photo shoot or like for a specific shoot, we're not really stressed about catching things anymore. If it happens, it happens. And it usually does because we've been fishing for so long. And that's not to be arrogant, I just mean like, finally we seem to, after 20 years, know what we're doing. (laughs) It took 20 years, but we figured it out. So food, yeah, so food is a big part of our lives, like for Yilma, Mitch and I, like Mitch's background is Portuguese, Yilma comes from Tobago, and I'm Italian, and food is something we all enjoy talking about and cooking it for each other. And so is, and drinking has been as well, whether it's beer or cocktails or wine. So, you know, so yeah, we've started, you know, we do little camp cocktails now, which is super fun, especially when we're camping because we have to drive later. And, but especially when we're camping or if we're overnighting in the cars somewhere, then yeah, definitely we'll bring, you know, we'll fill the Yeti with some pre-patched cocktails and go for it. We find that that's a good move. Don't bring glass bottles with you, you know, around the campfires, everybody seems to know. But like, yeah, we'll mix up some cocktails beforehand in our Yetis so that they're like ready to go.
Katie
Do you have a favorite fishing cocktail? Like if you had to share, you know, something for people to partake with you and sharing the Aldo fishing cocktail experience. Like what's your go-to cocktail?
Aldo
Well, okay, so here's, I mean, oh wow, what a question. I mean, my favorite cocktails are those with like any type of juice, but of course, introducing any type of juice or fresh thing, fresh things spoil. So if you're on a multiple day camping trip, it's not maybe advisable to bring like a margarita with you, even though I think you could argue that margaritas are my favorite cocktail. Okay. So, the best camping cocktail in my opinion is one that's made with spirits and only spirits because it doesn't spoil. You don't have to worry about it going off, you know? And so, a very dear friend of mine, his name's Nick Kennedy, he runs an amazing bar here called Civil Liberties, and he got into the outdoors and he was like, oh, take me fly fishing. So he's turned into really loving fly fishing and on one of our recent camping trips, he brought an Old Pal, which is one of my favorite all-time drinks. And an Old Pal…
Katie
Oh, I didn't know that was the drink. I thought you meant you just brought a guy along.
Aldo
No, it's a good, oh yeah, that's right. He brought, that is what it sounded like. No, Old Pal's a cocktail, and with a great name, because you make, you know, you tend to go fish, you know, fishing buddies turn into Old Pals really quickly. And so it's equal parts whiskey, Usually rye, Campari, and dry vermouth. And garnished with a little twist of lemon. And a little bit of whiskey and that bitterness from the Campari and the sweetness of the vermouth at the end of a day of fishing is pretty awesome around a campfire.
Katie
Okay, I'm gonna have to give this a try. I don't think I've ever had an Old Pal. So I'll have to make one and maybe take a picture and send it to you and let you know that I'm out on the water enjoying one.
Aldo
Well, if you're in Denver, you've got some pretty wicked cocktail bars in Denver.
Katie
Or are you up to date on the Denver cocktail scene?
Aldo
Yeah, it's a pretty innovative scene, to be honest. It's a wicked place to go get drunk. Everybody, go to Denver and get drunk. But no, you actually do have world-class bars in Denver, and you could probably go to some places and get some pretty good old pals.
Katie
That's funny you mention that, Because I've definitely been to cocktail bars in Denver, but Colorado in general just has such an air about it of microbreweries. Beer is such a Colorado staple that that's what comes to mind. Like if I think of Colorado alcohol, what I'm thinking of is local breweries. I mean, I've probably got 10 breweries within 15 minutes of me. And that's the case just all across all down the Front Range and even in the mountain towns. Like you can't go anywhere without running into breweries everywhere. So I wouldn't have thought of it as a cocktail place just because of that.
Aldo
Yeah. I mean, I think you're probably right. Like I mean, when I was driving around Colorado, like a lot of breweries, a lot of breweries here, too. But but yeah, no, Denver, Denver has a great, great cocktail scene. Great restaurant scene, actually, too.
Katie
Yeah, I'm sure being in the hospitality business, you probably know where the hot spots are.
Aldo
Yeah, I mean, I've actually never again, I've never been to Denver, so I haven't had the opportunity to explore it myself. but I have a lot of friends that go there quite often and they love it and they love it. So next time you go out, if you go out and if you want to drink a cocktail, yeah, try an Old Pal.
Katie
Yeah, I'll have to search one out and maybe take one on the river.
Aldo
Oh yeah, they don't spoil. That's the big thing, is you don't have to worry about them going up. Alcohol rarely goes bad.
Katie
But a margarita if you've got access to a truck and a cooler it sounds like.
Aldo
Oh my God, a margarita, give me a break. We were drinking margaritas like crazy in Texas.
Katie
Oh, I'm sure that's got a big margarita scene there.
Aldo
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. And when we were fishing in Mexico, that was margaritas are, who doesn't love a margarita? Is beer your thing, like you love beer?
Katie
Beer is usually what I'm drinking in the water. Although I've thought about moving away from it just because if I'm wearing waders, in the summer, not an issue. If I'm wearing waders, though, the bathroom situation makes beer less desirable. So trying to move a little bit more toward just whiskey in a flask or something like that instead because it limits the amount of liquid entering my body.
Aldo
Awesome.
Katie
Yeah I mean we can we can get wrapped up. I had Mitch plug you guys and then I had Yilma plug you guys but Yilma forgot the plugs so he had to go searching for them so I'm gonna have you plug a third time and we could see who had the best the best plug segment.
Aldo
Yilma. (both laughing) Yeah, I mean, first of all, thanks for having me on the show. It's cool being a guest on a podcast after doing so many podcasts ourselves. And I can't wait to hear Mitch and Yilma's interview. I think it's gonna be awesome. But yeah, you can find, we're the SoFly crew. We're from Toronto, Ontario. We try to rep Ontario as much as we can. You can find all of our content at sofly.ca, S-O-F-L-Y dot C-A. Our handle on Instagram, which we're probably the most active on, is @thesoflycrew. We do have a TikTok. (laughs) Seldom used, but it is also the SoFly crew. And we do have a YouTube channel, of course, which you can find from our website at sofly.ca, but it's also SoFly. Everything's SoFly. And if you want to reach out to us for whatever reason, our email's info@sofly.ca. And that's my plug.
Katie
I am going to give you the number ones, but I think you were the most comprehensive. I don't think anyone else mentioned TikTok, so I'm gonna give you first place in the plug category.
Aldo
Right on, great.
Katie
All right, Aldo, this was a ton of fun. I really appreciate it, and I'm looking forward to trying my first old pal. I'll let you know when that happens.,
Aldo
Yeah and two things. One, we gotta come down there. Also, Mitch and Yilma have never fished out west, which is like a sin. So they've got to fish the mountains. Two, we've got to have you up here. You've got to come to Temagami and paddle some lakes and fish some wild rivers.
Katie
I would love to hit Ontario. I think I was telling Mitch, I grew up on the eastern side of the US. So Ontario feels like home to me. I've spent a decent amount of time --not in the wilderness areas of it, but been to Toronto and some of southern Ontario. So it feels like home. And I definitely want to make some time to go there and do some fishing, because I think it would be fantastic.
Aldo
Oh yeah, it's great, it's great. And you can do whatever you want. We can fish for trout, bass, pike, musky.
Katie
All of the above.
Aldo
Doesn't matter. It's all here. It's all here.
Katie
All right, well I will let you get on with your evening, but once again I appreciate all you guys taking the time. You're all so fun. I love your show. You're so easy to talk to, fun to hang out with, fun to listen to, and I just can't thank you enough.
Aldo
Oh no, no, thank you. Pleasure's ours, and thank you right back. Yeah.
Katie
All right guys, thanks for listening. forget to head over to the website fishuntamed.com for all episodes and show notes. And also please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me and I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening and I will be back in two weeks. Bye everybody.
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