Ep 5: Music and Fly Fishing, with Jeff Troutman
Jeff Troutman is a musician, podcaster, and fly fisherman based out of Michigan. He hosts the Remote. No Pressure Fly Fishing Podcast. Jeff is also the artist behind a musical album dedicated solely to fly fishing songs. In this episode, Jeff and I chat about how being overworked got him into fly fishing, how fishing inspires his music, and his podcast.
Instagram: @remotenopressure
Facebook: /Remotenopressure
“Songs About Fly Fishing” Album: link
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Intro
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed podcast where we talk all things fishing, conservation, and the outdoors. Today on the show I'm joined by Jeff Troutman, fly-fishing musician and host of the Remote No Pressure Fly-Fishing Podcast. Alright, welcome to episode number five of the Fish Untamed podcast. Today I'm talking to Jeff Troutman who hosts one of my favorite fly-fishing podcasts called Remote No Pressure. If you've not checked out Remote No Pressure before you should definitely go give it a listen. I think it's one of the funnier fly-fishing podcasts out there. Jeff does a really good job of you know having interesting guests on and you know hearing their stories about how they got into fishing and you know what keeps them out on the water, why they're so passionate about fly-fishing, but also keeping it nice and light and humorous. So if you've not checked that out before definitely go subscribe to Jeff's podcast and also in addition to having a passion for fly fishing Jeff is also a passionate songwriter so he has an album out called songs about fly-fishing which is exactly what it sounds like if you want to hear a kind of a sample from that album we will be closing the show today with one of his songs from that album called Sixth Street Dam so go ahead and tune in the whole way till the end to hear that song and also check out the show notes where I'll link to the CD if you'd like to buy that. Without further ado, here is my chat with Jeff Troutman. I kind of wanted to talk to you about your last name to start because I feel like you do hear about it a lot. Is that the first thing that everyone asks you about?
Jeff
It's funny because, yes, I hear that a lot, trout man. And I grew up on the Gulf of Mexico and we don't, we have like speckled trout, you know, saltwater and stuff. But like, you know, trout's not this crazy thing in Texas. So, you know, in college people called me fish and they called me, you know, trout or whatever, but yeah, that's my legal name. And I get asked that a lot. Actually, I did my album a year ago, September, called Songs About Fly Fishing in Fox 17 News. Our local Fox station picked it up and they came out to my house, like interviewed me and what's going on, you know, the podcast. It's all really new. And they like, they zoomed in on my degree because I got my college degree like in my office behind a bunch of books for all I care. And they were zooming in on him like, "What are you doing? Why are you zooming in on that?" "Oh, because no one in the newsroom believed Troutman was your real name. They thought it was like a stage name."
Katie
People think that you've created your name either as a musician or just because you like fishing just for the sake of it.
Jeff
Yeah, they ask me that a lot. It's funny because I never thought about it growing up. It is kind of weird that people ask me about it but it's perfectly fine. It's a logical question. It's not like some weird... It's a guy, he has a podcast, he has an album called Songs About Fly Fishing and his last name is Troutman.
Katie
I'm sure there's probably some angler out there who's diehard enough that they've considered changing their last name to like Pike Slayer.
Jeff
Which would be great. That would be an awesome thing. I would call them pike slayers, you know, and it's, yeah, it's just, it's, it's funny because like I come from, uh, there's a trout with North Carolina. Um, that's where a town is. Uh, but my family is, is from Texas and we're like, I don't know how I was thinking about this today. Cause I was thinking about the interviews, like how many, how many generations are we Texan? And I don't even know. So, um, yeah, it's my last. And if you look up Joe speaking, cause how do you know, Katie, how do you know when someone's from Texas? They tell you. So actually if you look up Joanna Troutman, she's like long way back. She actually made a flag to fly at the Alamo. So that's like my claim to fame.
Katie
That's pretty cool. That's a better story than just saying you're from Texas to have something to back it up.
Jeff
That's true. I think she was from Georgia though or North Carolina but still you know. I mean we may not even be related but I'm gonna take credit for it.
Katie
There can't be that many trout men. Do you go by, well not do you go by, is it pronounced Troutman or Troutman?
Jeff
Troutman.
Katie
Troutman, okay.
Jeff
I think it's German.
Katie
Do you play it up though?
Jeff
Not really. I just say Troutman, and then when people ask, well, how do you spell that? Because everyone asks me how to spell it. It's like Troutman, like a superhero.
Katie
I see. Really explaining it.
Jeff
Yeah.
Katie
You're from Texas, but you live in Michigan now?
Jeff
Yep, that's correct.
Katie
I feel like there's a lot of people from Michigan. Between the podcasts I listen to, but all of them outdoor related, like fishing and hunting, there's a couple big names from Michigan.
Jeff
Sure, yeah. I mean, meat eaters from here. We also have the fishing podcast. We have, that's another one, Adventure Deficit. And us three are from here. The guy from, I'm so sorry, I'm so bad with names, but the guy from Mediators from Gaylord, Michigan, which is north of here a few hours. But yeah, it is kind of weird. I actually had a meeting last week with a guy and he's like, it's just weird that all you guys are pretty close. And it's like, yeah, it is kind of weird. I have no idea why that is, but.
Katie
Now this might be a really stupid question. It's like when someone goes to like a big university and you know, to people who went there and you're like, oh, you must know each other. Do you know any of these people in Michigan because of the industry you're in or are you guys completely separated? You've never met any of them?
Jeff
I was on the fishing podcast with the Kaiser. I have nothing to do with meat either. I have some friends who know them. Brian Kosminski, True North Trout up north. He knows those guys I believe. Yeah, then Wired4Hunt I think he's from here as well.
Katie
Yeah, he is.
Jeff
Part of me now. So I don't know them. No. It's really funny because when I started this whole thing I didn't know one person at all. I was the only person that fly fished that I knew and I was so passionate about it I had had to start a podcast and I had to even listen to a podcast about fly -fishing. I had nothing to compare it to and that was kind of intentional. But to answer your question, I'm trying to stay on task here. No, I don't know any of them except for Landon DeKeyser.
Katie
Just so you know, I think the fact that your podcast often doesn't stay on task is like kind of my favorite thing about it.
Jeff
Yeah, I noticed when you email me you're like, "I really enjoyed season two, especially Bill." No, Bill's awesome and we do get off, we get really goofy sometimes. It's just a lot of fun. We just have a great time.
Katie
I think that's what it is about podcasts though. I had emailed Mark from Wired to Hunt before too expressing, because he had said that someone complained in the review that they didn't like all the banter at the beginning before getting to the content and I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. Like for all the podcasts that have some sort of you know intro with a co-host I always like those way more because I'm just like I feel like I know them you know you get to know the people over time and I Don't know. I hear the same content over and over again when the same guests come in on and stuff Like I just want to hear them
Jeff
Yeah, it's funny because this this past season, it's funny you see it because this past season we did a couple episodes with just Bill and I just shooting the shooting The crap, you know cuz I get bored just doing the interview Oh, how did you get into fly-fishing or blah blah, you know, and then they're great. They're all awesome and they're, you know, but I get tired of it as a host. Like I want something different too. And so if I get tired of it, I'm sure my listeners are, I think it's gonna come across to them too. So me and Bill did a few episodes this past season of just banter, you know, just us, you know, reading goofy stories on fly fishing and stuff and just laughing. And he's such a funny, sharp guy, Bill is. Like he's just very witty. So we had a great time. And looking at our analytics, those actually did better than a lot of the, the, the bigger names that we had on last season. So that was kind of funny to see that, you know, you're saying this in a, and there's, you know, I get these weird reviews all the time, people are just jerks and people are weird, so you can say whatever you want, but you know, my numbers speak for themselves. As same with the guy from wire to hunt. I mean, you can't argue with his numbers. He is a Google genius and he knows the analytics behind it and he's he's done it very well but yeah, so I enjoy the banter as well.
Katie
I mean I would agree that I wouldn't want that every single episode like you definitely want the the content from big names and people have something interesting to say but Like I said, I I hear a lot of the big names on multiple podcasts because everyone wants them on and so it's like I've heard how they got into fishing five times now. Yeah. So it's just fun to hear from like names you've never heard from before or just listen to the host talk. I find myself laughing along to your podcast a lot.
Jeff
Yeah, that's awesome. That's really cool. And that's what we try to do because we try to take it too seriously. And you say big names. I mean, we've had some awesome names and I could name drop right now about people who've been on our podcast. But what is a big name? You know, Like this whole influencer culture, influencer, like I think we're at this tipping point. There's some awesome people that we make heroes out of that are just awesome. And one of the people I think about is like Oliver White. To me, he was just an awesome guy and he's an awesome human being and he's done so much for the community and it's been great. And we all wanna hear from him. But like you, Katie, I mean, you're the next generation. Like you think of, who's the lady, April Vokey, okay? Awesome, okay. Incredible human being, awesome, knows her crap like nobody's business. And by the way, if you listen to my podcast, I not one time claim to be some believable fly angler, okay? I just love to do it, so I started a podcast. April Vokey is amazing. And you know, Katie, it's like, that's an awesome person, But like you said, hearing people that no one's ever heard of, like I had a guy on my first season I never heard of and I'm going to interview him again in season three because the audio was so bad, Katie, in season one that it was like, I was so embarrassed but the content was so good and no one's ever heard of this guy. And he's one of those sleeper guys that you're just like, "Who is this person?" And he starts talking and I'm like, "Holy crap, this is an amazing episode." And it's like, those are the jewels. He said, I mean, I've heard Oliver White's story a million times and I love him. I think he's a great human being. And I've heard April Vokey's story and I've heard all these people's stories. And it's just like, where are those guests that are like you? You know, are like these people that are coming up. Like a guy that helped me produce last, or my first season a little bit, his name's John Murphy. And he just moved to Florida and he's like, you know, he's just 20 something, really young kid, you know, but he loves fly fishing. and like, those are the people I wanna see. I wanna talk to those people just 'cause maybe, I don't know.
Katie
You never know who’s gonna crawl out of the woodwork and have some super interesting story that you've never heard because they just didn't bother to tell someone.
Jeff
Right, yeah, or like, I don't know. I'm not gonna ask how old you are, but I'm pushing, I'll be 40 next year.
Katie
I'm 26.
Jeff
Okay, all right, so I don't know if you remember a little band called Nirvana.
Katie
I do.
Jeff
Okay, so they were like my favorite band, Kurt Cobain, Seattle Grunge scene, I ain't got so stupid, but I loved them, right? And they were like, like in the 80s, we had greed is good, like greed is awesome, like you work hard and you grind it out, you know, and greed is good, and then in the 90s, we just all got tired of it and we became slackers. So I don't know if you remember, like we used to tie our like flannel shirts and wear jeans that are ripped, 'cause we don't care anymore. Oh, we're like the slacker generation. I think that's where we're headed, because we gotta get as many followers as possible, and look at us, listen to us, we're so cool, and grind it out, and there's one guy I was listening to for a while, 'cause I like business stuff, and he's just like, "Grind, grind it out, this is good." And I just got really exhausted. Like, I got a wife, I've got two kids, and it's like, grinding is good, but there comes a point where we just get tired of it. I think we're like gonna see this change in our culture where it's like we're gonna get back into that slacker. Not that I'm necessarily slacker. Obviously, we work hard because we put content out every week but it's like who cares?
Katie
Everyone's just kind of going and like trying to make this image and make it work and it's only so long you can keep up with it honestly. I feel like it's tiring.
Jeff
Yeah I think people are getting tired of it. I think we're like at this precipice or I don't know fancy word for change where we're like kind of see us just like I don't care. Like I hate the word followers. It sounds like I started a cult. You know what I mean? But it's necessary.
Katie
I feel like it might go the way of well like I feel like when not everyone had a presence on social media, it was more of a, you know, if you had a presence and there were people following you, then that meant something. And now, since everyone has it, it's kind of not becoming a big deal anymore. You know, it's not that difficult to get a couple thousand people following you.
Jeff
No, it's not. And this is what I was telling my wife just the other day, because my wife likes Target like any millennial female. She loves Target and she adds and she reads them. she was reading like doing this look influencer thing and go online to Target and you can see like people who hashtag target and you can see what they're wearing that's target and and I said I tell my wife I'm like that's no different than like a catalog but they don't have to pay the models anymore
Katie
Right
Jeff
You know like people are going there and looking at that girl not because she's got some following or she's cute or blah blah blah adding value to my life, this 18-year-old life coach. But she has a shirt on that's cute that's from Target. So Target's like, "Sure, we'll use you on our ad." So they don't have to pay a model. They just have this flow of Instagram users.
Katie
It's kind of like a cult following in that sense is that people want to show which brands they're associated with. There's so many good brands of things out there. In the fly fishing world. There are definitely good brands and more entry-level brands but in general, everything today is good enough quality that it's not like you need to hashtag the one brand you're using because you need to show everyone that you're loyal to that brand.
Jeff
Right. Or an ambassador. Like whatever that is. I asked this one guy, he's an ambassador for this company. I'm not gonna say the name of it. And I'm like, "Well, what does that mean?" Because I didn't know. I'm always looking for new ideas business-wise and sponsors and things like that. And I was like, "What is an ambassador?" "Oh man, I get like 15% off." I was like, "Oh, that's really cool." And then like at the end of the year, he's all pissed because he had to like buy an X certain amount of product in order to get 15 % off. I'm like, "Well, hey, I can start a company. I'll make you an ambassador if that means you're required to buy all of my products. I'll give you a coupon for 15% off.
Katie
You get 15% off, you got to spend a thousand bucks.
Jeff
Yeah, exactly.
Katie
That you wouldn't have spent otherwise.
Jeff
Exactly. So anyways, that's the state of the podcast. That's where I'm living at. Because see, like my demographic, I fish as much as I can, but I raise a family. I work. A lot of our listeners are that way. You look at our feed, it's a a lot of different people's pictures. There's some of me, yeah, but really, we glorify this travel and we glorify, oh, look at this person going here and going there. It's so neat. Oh my God, they're fishing off of ladders. Like that's the coolest thing ever. And they get the money shot and everything. And here I am, my kid's crapped his pants and I got bills to pay, you know what I mean? And I mean if I take pictures of my everyday life like okay some people might follow me and stuff but reality was our demographic we work really hard and we fish as much as we can and then what I that's what I tell people. Our demographic is we work really hard, we love our families, we fish as hard as we can and then we sometimes take pictures and we and then we we complain about not having enough time to go fishing but yet we wouldn't have it any other way.
Katie
Right. Isn't working too hard, kind of what got you into fly fishing in the first place?
Jeff
That's an excellent question, Katie. Yeah, absolutely. It is. So, that's cool. Yeah, you've probably heard Jeff on a podcast somewhere.
Katie
I have some. Maybe you were a guest on someone's. I don't remember.
Jeff
Yeah, I was on the Adventure Deficit Podcast and that was cool, but I did not stay on task. And it's funny because I have these guests on my podcast. And the next day I almost like I say probably 50% of the time I get a text Oh, man, all I did was rant the entire time and I text back. That's fine. You're the guest not me I want you to talk, you know, but when I listen back to my own like holy cow I was like all over the place and so that was interesting. So that was with Adventure Adventure Deficit again out of Grand Rapids but yeah.
Katie
Before you before you go on I just want to comment on that and say that I've noticed that when I'm like going back to edit episodes. I think back on the conversation. I'm like that was so great like that just went very natural like regular conversation would go and then I open up the recording and everything the guest says sounds great and then every time I speak I'm like I hate this so to cut out my entire half the conversation just let them monologue for an hour.
Jeff
It's funny too because you realize how much you interrupt people. When you listen back, you're like, "Oh crap." As a host, you know, your job is to let them talk and finish their thoughts, you know. And me growing up in a crazy family, it's like everybody talks over everybody. So as I've gotten older, not just in podcasting but in life, you know, getting that emotional intelligence on just how to communicate, you know. But when I listen back, I'm like, "Holy cow. You're exactly right."
Katie
Right, but you gotta balance it between, You know not trying to talk over someone but also I've had people who don't know when they're supposed to stop talking because they've never done one before and so they're going for like 20 minutes straight and I'm like, I gotta jump in here save this person.
Jeff
Yeah, it's great that's sign of a great host though
Katie
But anyway back to your story — working too hard
Jeff
Yeah, yeah is working. I was a musician a Christian musician And I moved to Michigan because I was working at this big mega church, right? it was like this like I think we had like 8,500 members at the time and so It was one of those things or it's just like a business, you know, and I hated it within two years I'm like, this is not like what I should be doing with my life. And so I went to I went to work in finance. I went back to college and got my degree in finance and then I was working in finance just got incredibly stressed out and what happened was is we had a newborn Elliot he's six years old now, so we had a newborn and we were not sleeping at all. My wife wasn't sleeping. I wasn't sleeping They say it's seven years after having a baby before you get back to normal and I believe that sleep cycle is correct. Like it's about seven years. So he's six. I'm almost there But you know, I was going a lot of Interpersonal stuff at my work and my job. It was just a horrible horrible horrible place to work and then all the stuff was like mounting up on me a young dad and I was like, what am I gonna do? So I went and I went saw a psychologist and I was like, hey, um, I Think something's going I'm going crazy and after two or three visits. She's like there's nothing there's nothing wrong with you, Jeff rod from Bass Pro Shop that I won in a sales contest at work. I was like, "What the heck, I'll try it." And so I went online and found a group of old guys that fished every Tuesday night. And I told my wife, I'm like, "Hey, this is my therapy. I know it's hard for you to sacrifice one night a week with a newborn." And my oldest was, I think he was four or five. So we had two little ones. So she's at home all day with him. And then I come home and I'm like, "Oh, wait. One day a week. I'm gonna do whatever I want to do." It's kind of a jerk thing to do. You know what I mean? In a lot of ways. But she was super gracious and she totally understood that, "Hey, you're a better human being when you do this thing." It's not like I was going to the bar drinking and getting crazy. I'm going thick.
Katie
You're gonna be better six days a week and have one day off.
Jeff
Right. And I wish I could have given her a day off because she was nursing. That was really hard on her and stuff. She was really gracious and yeah, it just really, it really changed my life, the whole fly fishing thing. And I'm like, I guess I gotta tell other people. And I've always been a searcher of the truth. I've always been a searcher of something more. Like when I was at church, when I was working at a church, a church is like huge, you know. And I saw the machine that it was and saw all the back end of it And I'm like, this is not true to me. This is not who I am. I can't be part of this. Then working in finance, some of the things I saw just like incredibly wrong. And again, not who I am. And this is not truly what I believe in or what I want. And not that there's anything wrong with that career, that business, but the particular office I was in, it was not, it's not what I wanted to do. And so I just said, if I could do anything, what would I do? I was like, I'd talk about fly fishing and write songs about fly fishing. And so that's what I did. And now I work, I have a day job still. I mean, I'm not full time yet, 'cause I do have a wife and a couple of kids that depend on me. But it's making that progress toward doing what I love. And there's this outlet for me to do that, that's really saved my life and saved my marriage. And when people find God religion, they get really excited and they got to tell people about it. You know, annoying uncle that got baptized. And all of a sudden his life has completely changed. He wants to tell you whether or not it was God that did that or like whatever. He's still excited and he's gonna tell you how to like convert and like how you can be better and how you can change and they're excited about it. That's the same but like one of the things that we do it on our podcast is we're searching for that. We're searching for the truth. You know, we're searching for this deeper meaning behind fly fishing and we never pretend we have things figured out. Like, oh you need to do this because you know you need to stop doing that or politics you know and all this crazy like we stay away from that because we don't know I don't know the answers you know. I'm just like a lot of other people so I'm like searching for this truth. I'm searching for and I know it's weird like fly fishing is the truth but I talked to a lot of people about that kind of thing and we just happened to all fly fish. So it's not a podcast about how to tag the best fly. It's more like that part of it that's what is the quote "many men will fish their entire life not realizing it's not the fish that they're after." So I think that that really sums up what we're doing.
Katie
So, where did you get the name?
Jeff
It's a very interesting question because I don't actually get that question very often.
Katie
That's the first thing I thought when I first came across you. I don't remember where I found you the first time. I'm trying to think back. But I just saw Remote No Pressure and I just had a picture of a fish on it. And I clicked on whatever it was and saw that it was a podcast and I was like, "Oh, I've never heard this one." So, I started listening and then I just remember thinking like what is remote no pressure? But then I didn't hear it talked about and it's just kind of become one of those things that you say often enough now that it doesn't sound weird anymore but it definitely did at the beginning.
Jeff
That's interesting. It's kind of like my favorite musician is Robert Earl Keane. He's my favorite songwriter. Yeah and when I first heard his voice I'm like what? Like how's this guy famous? And you hear it enough and you're like oh it's normal.
Katie
That's just what it is. Yeah. Like I grew up a town called Slippery Rock and everyone everyone hears that and it's like whoa Slippery Rock and I'm like oh that's just what it's called. It just doesn't sound weird at all. I don't even think about it.
Jeff
Right like um right outside of Houston there's a a town called Humble. It's spelled with an h spelled with a you know whatever it's spelled with an h but we all call it Umble. Instead of Humble, we call it Umble. And so like, I don't think anything weird of that. That's Humble. But when you hear people on TV talking about football players from Humble Texas, you know, that guy's not from Texas. When you go out there, you just don't think anything of it. This is weird. So, but remote, no pressure. I remember exactly where I was. I was standing in my driveway and my kids were raising hell next door doing something. And I'm like, whenever you go fishing, the more remote you go, the less pressure the fish have on them. And the more remote I go, the less pressure I have on me. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like that's where the name came from because I'm like remote, no pressure.
Katie
I mean, I got the... It's weird because I didn't know what it meant, but I immediately knew the vibe it was trying to convey. Like I knew what you were... The feeling you were trying to give with it, but I didn't understand how it went together because it seemed specific than just being like the remote fly-fishing podcast. There was something more to it there. So, I had to finally hear the back story.
Jeff
That's the back story. Yeah, remote no pressure. Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting that you say that because I would like to hire a designer and someone to do the branding thing and really what's your vision for this thing. Then we take everything and pick colors and brands and all that but I don't have like four grand to do that right now. But you know, I don't know. You just have to do it and then things have come out like, "Okay, yeah, that is who we are. That is what we're doing. I'm different now than I was two years ago when we started the podcast."
Katie
Well, it also kind of becomes something on its own. So, Obviously do you have to you know, come up with a name come up with a logo pick some colors whatever but It's not like you sit there and just decide what it's gonna be and that's just what it is forever I feel like it you kind of become it as you go You know like when I started fish untamed and I was just like I'm gonna start this website and now I feel like it's completely different entity Than when I started just because it's adapted over time
Jeff
That's really cool Katie. That's awesome
Katie
I'm really impressed that you hold out a full-time job and seem to be kind of full-time into music too and running from a no pressure
Jeff
Yeah, it's it's actually my music takes definitely The backseat
Katie
Does it?
Jeff
Yeah. I mean I released a single this year called How Long so it's available on iTunes or whatever streaming platforms That was pretty cool, but that was hard and I wasn't super impressed with the final mix but I put it out there because it's done, you know, it's like you have to make a decision You got to pull the trigger. But like you said, it becomes its own thing. Like music, when you use songs, it's like you put it out there and it's out there. And to be honest with you, like full-time job, so I'm a regional sales manager. I do a really boring job. I sell salad dressing. So it's a very boring job.
Katie
I think that's more interesting than selling like, I don't know, software.
Jeff
Yeah. Oh yeah. It's salad dressing, like ranch dressing. What are you going to do with that? So I'm a regional salesman. So I travel quite a bit for work. and then we're putting out content every Sunday. But it's the music that I love more than anything. If I could just sit and write, well, I do write. I write songs all the time on the road. I've got like stacks of songs I've written that I want to get released. And so I can't go play bars and clubs every weekend because I'm traveling for work during the week and I come home and be with my family. So I can't go out there and play bars and in the festivals. and I know people in those arenas, but I can't do that right now. So I've created this podcast, and I have my music attached to it, and people listen, and I make royalties, and I get regular plays, and it's a growing thing. But it's one of those things where it's just gonna take a lot more time. But a lot of times the businesses, they create the product. Like musicians are this way too. So my song's about fly fishing, so if you type that in, all about SEO right because people type in google songs about fly fishing and there's my album you know okay so but a lot of times musicians they're like love me you know love me and love my music
Katie
Just like a musician like hovering over you like love me
Jeff
Yeah exactly look at me i'm so great and and that's just like a natural tendency for musicians so what i thought it was like wow like first of all if I'm writing love songs I'm like competing with John Mayer and like some of these amazing musicians and songwriters throughout all of history. I mean like even King David wrote love songs you know so why don't I just write songs about fly fishing? There's probably not a lot of people on there and then I get to know people and then they'll listen to my other music you know?
Katie
But first they like one song they're probably going to be interested in all of them.
Jeff
Yes or like okay like what do we have in common? What's something that we have in common? So instead the relationship like, "Hey, Katie, I'm so awesome. "I'm so great, look at me. "Look at this music I create. "Oh my gosh, look at this chord. "Oh, this is wonderful." No, it's more like, "Katie, you fly fish? "I fly fish too, let me learn about you." And then we have something in common, and then it's like, "Oh, cool, oh." And then when people ask me, "Oh, I googled your name "and I saw you do music." "Yeah, I do music, oh, it's great." You know, and like my buddy sent me a picture, it was on a playlist, and it gets regular plays, it gets regular rotation, but I'm not out there I would rather start my relationship with my quote-unquote, I hate the word fans, but the people that listen to my music, I'd rather start our relationship based on things we have in common versus telling them how great I am.
Katie
Right, you have something to offer and they want to come back for more.
Jeff
Exactly, and also like the podcast, I may not be doing music as much as I want, but I have this awesome distribution channel that I've built up that takes some musicians Tens of years to build that up, you know playing bars. But instead I have like, okay I could put on an album right now and I can get quite a few downloads because I already have a distribution channel So instead of creating the product and then finding the distribution channel for it I've been focused on creating the distribution channel and then providing that distribution channel with a product Well, it's kind of reverse of way business is done. Especially the music business.
Katie
Well it sounds like it works well with your lifestyle where I can kind of squeeze in wherever you have room for it instead Of having to be on a more rigid Schedule or plan
Jeff
Yeah, it works. Well, and I got a great family that supports me. So that's always good.
Katie
Do you find that the music is kind of the more relaxing like when you're stressed out about trying to get all your podcast and content out You can just like take a break and go to music or do you feel? Like you might be getting like writers block with music and you take a break to go work on You know just type it up some content or chat with somebody like which is which is the escape from the other if you have one.
Jeff
Well first of all, if you subscribe to our mailing list, which you can do at remote no pressure No, if you subscribe to our mailing list, you'll know really quickly that writing Content is probably my worst skill set that I have because I'm not an attention to detail person I'm not I just I will I will have spelling grammatical errors if you want to train wreck you can subscribe to our mailing list because you know I and now I have my wife because my wife of course is an introvert introverted person But she's very pay attention to details and I'm like look boo you're gonna have to read this over from now on before I send this out because You know, I don't even see this stuff. So that stresses me out Music like I'm writing all the time. Like it does not stress me out. It comes really fast comes. I'm in the car so I have like my my iPhone just full of sketches for songs. I would say probably the writing, the music, and then fly fishing. I started tying flies this year. That again, attention to detail. I can tie a big fly, no problem, or a woolly bug or something. But when you get really small and detail, that annoys me. I can't fly with it. It stresses me out.
Katie
That's funny. I would have expected a musician would be very into detail because I feel like you want to get it just right, notes just right, the words just right, but it maybe just comes more naturally to you than throwing out words on a page in a newsletter.
Jeff
Yeah. Like writing about something, whatever cool fly fishing thing and putting it in my mailing list. To me, it's just, "Okay, it's a task. It's content." Which you should not think that way. This is your business. This is what you're doing. You should be detached. It's annoying. When I'm writing music though, the placement of the words are very important. I'm a lyricist. I love writing lyrics. The notes are great and the chords are great, but really I really like writing the lyrics. So in a way, I am very anal about that part of it. It's just how the words sit and the phrasing and things like that. I really am particular about that. But writing for a newsletter or a blog or something, oh my gosh, just shoot me right now.
Katie
Do you usually get your inspiration when you're out fishing? Do you just have ideas where you're just like, "Oh yeah, that's the thing. That's what I'm going to write a song about next."
Jeff
Yes. Yeah. Sometimes. I think what happens is it's kind of like taking a vitamin or taking any other pill. At the moment you take it, you don't know what it's doing for you. But a couple hours later, you're like, "Oh, I don't feel pain anymore." That's really how fly fishing is. So I go fly fishing and it's really like, um, I, I was in a, um, a pretty bad car accident when I was 11 years old, a drunk driver hit us. And so I actually walk with a limp and it's very difficult for me to, to wait in water. It's getting, it's it's. As I'm getting older, I guess, but it's, I have limited function of my left leg. Okay. I like, I'm not like on a cane or anything, but I get very tired. So waiting is actually pretty physically exhausting on me. But, um, so when I go fishing, it's not like I'm relaxing, really focused on, you know, what it's like when you're fly fishing, you can't really think about a lot of other things. You're only thinking about fishing. So it's kind of like taking that vitamin or that pill. It's like kind of painful. I enjoy it. I love it. And then like, I get home that night and I'm like, wow, I really have a clear head. You know? So sometimes when I'm on the water, I'm not thinking like, Oh, this will be a great song, but it's when I'm home, when my mind is clear and I'm like, okay, because I went fishing, I took that vitamin, I'm feeling better now. It's not like right when I go.
Katie
That's a good point because I go fishing to relax. But when I'm out there, it's like I'm just sitting on shore, staring at the clouds, relaxing. I'm usually hyper-focused on something. I spot a fish and I'm stuck on it. The other day, I was planning to leave at a certain time and then I saw this one trout rise and I stayed for the next 20 minutes casting for it and never saw it again. I didn't even know 20 minutes had passed because I was so laser-focused. It's hard to say relaxing. But the moment I left, I was just at ease. Anything I've been stressing about earlier that day had to be pushed to the wayside for me to be that hyper-focused for so long. And then you come back and you're like, "I don't even know why I was that worried about it to begin with."
Jeff
Right. It all kind of seems silly. But like I said, it's more like at the time I'm on the water, I'm not really that relaxed. But when it's afterwards or a couple of days even, I'm a different person when I go fishing.
Katie
I think it's probably just because once you're mindset of, you know, I've got all this stuff to do or I'm super stressed. It's hard to get out of that because anytime you think, well, I'll just think about something else, like it just comes right back. But having that barrier of you don't have time to think about anything else, it kind of stops you. You know, it stops the mind from being able to keep sinking back into that. So, I think it just kind of reset. It's just a reset, you know?
Jeff
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So, that's I've been working, I've been writing an album for like two years and I got plenty of songs for it. But those songs are like, it's not just fishing. I don't write just fishing songs. So this one will be more of the mainstream, I guess, and folksy. And I got a couple fishing songs and stuff. But Life is like, it's funny because I hear writers like Taylor Swift, which I know a lot of people laugh, but I think she's a really good writer. And she's really young. I know you're smiling.
Katie
I think I remember you mentioned this on your podcast.
Jeff
I think so. It's so stupid. And I hate that I feel this way about Taylor Swift, but she's good. Ryan Adams, I don't know if you know who Ryan Adams is, but he covered the entire album in 1989.
Katie
That's what I remember you mentioning because I looked it up after you said it.
Jeff
What do you think? What did you think of it? it. It's brilliant, right?
Katie
It sounds so different when someone else singing it.
Jeff
Oh my gosh but I'm Ryan Adams fan but whatever. So so she's really good but like it's it's funny cuz like the older you get like you like you're when you're really young, Katie, you're too too young to be nostalgic, right? Like, I don't have any memories or I don't I don't wanna have like these places I used to go to when I was a kid kid, cause I'm still a kid, you know, I think back to like some foods or smells or things that it's like, okay, this is Texas, you know, I grew up here, you know, I can smell a kolache right now and Shipley donut, like that takes me back, but you only have those as you get older, you only, you only reminisce, um, things in the past. And so if you don't have a past or you're young, like you, you don't have the nostalgia, you know? So as you get older, um, like I'm 39 and I have some nostalgia now, like I have some things I long for that weren't there when I was 22 years old. I remember in the 80s they came out with new coke and everyone freaked out. I'm like, "Well, what's wrong? Don't you want it new? You know, don't you want new? No, I want my coke." I drank it and I never understood that now that I'm older. So the words that are coming out in the lyrics, I'm really excited about because they're topics and ideas that you can only get when you're older. Like I can't explain it. And then when I'm 60, I'll probably be other, like John Prine is one of my favorite, and he's an old dude, you know, and he's an amazing writer. And he's a really old guy. So like, I can only imagine he's better. So that's what I was saying that, I said I was saying this, I hate Taylor Swift 'cause she's so young and she's so damn good at writing lyrics, but like, like how can you do that? Like how? I don't know, but anyway, so that's kind of a rant, but I do write songs about fly fishing. part of who I am. And sometimes there's some things in my songs that only if you fly fish, you'd understand. Parachute Adams, I got a song called Parachute Adams and it's really sweet and his friend Crazy Charlie. So if you fly fish, you get it. You know what I mean? But if you don't fly fish, you think, "Oh, that's a pretty cool song. This guy, Parachute Adams, you know.
Katie
It’s funny to think about what non fly fishermen think when they hear things like that because I remember I was trying to write a post about you know like basic trout flies or something like that and I wanted a picture of parachute Adams that you know and I didn't have a nice enough setup to get a good picture myself, so I was like, I'll just go to Google so I then I you know, switch it to labeled for fair use or whatever. So that's gonna really limit what comes up and suddenly was a bunch of like dudes jumping out of planes and I was like I guess these guys are parachute Adams Adamses but like you don't even think about the fact that you say to somebody else it doesn't even register what you're referring to.
Jeff
Yeah but in the niche like like the fan base is like holy cow that's so awesome but yet someone who doesn't fish can listen to but I mean it's really cool this guy like like parachute Adams. I got about named my band Jeff Troutman and the parachute Adams and like that's and people be like oh that's just a cool name the people who are flying and it would totally like attract those that crowd because they're like parachute Adam that's pretty freaking sweet you know
Katie
I wanted to mention that my favorite song growing up was Fish and Whistle
Jeff
Okay
Katie
Because my dad listened to a lot of John Prine so that was that was my favorites growing up and I recently played it and my boyfriend now has been listening to it so it's like back to relive all the times that was playing as a kid.
Jeff
Oh my gosh, John Prine is a genius. Like he has on his new album, Sea of Forgetfulness, I think, he has a song called Egg and Daughter Night and it's so brilliant. Like it's so good and I'm just like, can I just have those lyrics, please? Can I? Some of the lines, yeah. So check out Egg and Daughter Night if you like, if you at all like John Prine.
Katie
Yeah, I haven't heard much of his new stuff so I'll have to check it out.
Jeff
It's good. It's good stuff. He's a good writer. I hope I'm that way. I think he has a little bit more hair than I do but not by much.
Katie
You can work up to it.
Jeff
I'm working up to it.
Katie
So is your podcast on a hiatus right now? Are you between seasons?
Jeff
Yeah, we're between seasons. We'll be back the first weekend. I think it's October 6th so we'll be back. We did this last year. We're we have for season three we're doing our YouTube channel so we already have our YouTube channel up we just started doing it we just basically dumped all of our audio files on there and this season three because the thing is is Bill and I get a little crazy like I've known Bill since since 2002 okay so I've known Bill for like 17 years and when we get together we don't even drink like like we're just goofy you know you think we're drunk or something so but we get together kind of goofy and so we have to edit stuff out like some of the stuff is like just like we we went on a rand you probably heard the asian carp episode where we're talking about build a wall
Katie
I did I almost wanted to ask about Asian carp tonight and I was like I don't know if I should bring it up
Jeff
We beeped out that whole word through the intro just because we're like you don't want to offend the Asian carp, you know build a wall, you know to keep them out So that's like my I mean we don't go like create, you know, most of the time it's safe for work We try to keep it safe for work but what we're doing is all of our content our intros and outros and stuff will be unedited on our YouTube channel and We're kind of going or just kind of stuff out there So that's what's different than our podcast like that. You download for your iPhone or whatever the YouTube channel. We're just like unedited We're building like I put a picture up on our Instagram today Of us working on we're like building the studio out And the basement like you don't see behind the scenes like there's like crazy Tonka trucks and stuff everywhere because my kids playroom I've converted like those YouTube studios. So But yeah, so that's that's kind of what we're doing So between seasons like last year between season one season two, I added bill as a co-host. We changed up our website And it was really good for me because you know, like you said, you know it's a lot of work and have a family and a job. So I take off a few weeks but we're still working. That's the thing is like we're still working on projects. We got a couple new products coming out and so we're off. October 6th we'll be back and if you subscribe to our YouTube, you'll see content and also our mailing list is still going out.
Katie
Yeah, I remember I think you had mentioned on the podcast that you were going to do an unedited YouTube channel. I remember thinking I got to sign up for that when it comes out. I think that's going to be a good time.
Jeff
It's fun.
Katie
Does Bill fish too?
Jeff
Yes, he does. He does fish. He just started with me. I got him on to it a couple years back. I do a trout camp in the spring and fall of every year where I take these corporate refugees into the wilderness and we go fishing. They're guys that are in the business world kind of like I was and we just go fishing. Bill was on one of those trips and we just we've just been really good friends like you cannot get a better person than Bill and Mike dude you gotta just come on like come on the podcast and he's just got a great sense of humor and he fishes and he's getting better he's getting better like he's he's I am marginally better than he is he's starting to catch up because he's not he's not married and so like he has a lot of time on his hands. So, you know, so he's like, it'd be way better. That was the joke we had a couple of weeks ago. Like you're going to have your own podcast called more remote, more pressure, less pressure because you're like better than me.
Katie
Remoter, less pressure.
Jeff
Yeah. Remoter, less pressure.
Katie
Well, tell, tell Bill that I would gladly subscribe to his podcast if he came out with one.
Jeff
I'll tell him that he'd get a kick out of it.
Katie
So what do you-- you said you fish for trout. Do you fish for anything else over in Michigan?
Jeff
Oh, yeah. Trout I fish when it's cooler. Right now we're fishing for smallmouth-- smallmouth on the Flat River over in Lowell, Michigan. So during the warmer months, we go for more of the warm water species, which I mainly just go for smallies. Bluegill-- I love catching bluegill on the fly. some carp. Those are the kind of fish we're chasing right now. And then when it cools off, so here in another month or two, we'll start the trout thing up again once it starts getting cooler. I mean, we did the hex like this year. Last year did the hex, which is for trout at night. I don't know if you're familiar with the hex hatch. And then the brown drake. I did the brown drake this year. I did the hex last year, both with Brian Kosminski up at True North Trout. Those are cool, because you fish at night, which is really weird. But it's a lot of fun.
Katie
I've never gotten to experience any of the big hatches back east, because I really only fished warm water. I am from Pennsylvania originally. So I grew up with smallmouth and walleye and pike. And we're talking about the nostalgia thing. And that was actually something-- I was home for the 4th of July. And I picked up a spit-- because I grew up spin fishing, like most people did. I picked up a spin rod and went for all those pieces again and I had like an absolute blast. Like I didn't want to trade it out for a fly rod just because it's just nice to go back and do what you did growing up. But I didn't really fish for trout until I came out here and so I kind of separate those two things.
Jeff
Yeah so you get it. You get the nostalgia thing. You know you're getting some age on you know.
Katie
Back in my day.
Jeff
Back in my day we fished with rods and reels. Well, cool. Well, thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it, Katie.
Katie
Yeah, this is a great conversation. You're just so much fun to talk to.
Jeff
Cool.
Katie
But do you want to feel free to plug anything where people can come find you? Any social media or your album, where they can get your album or anything like that?
Jeff
Sure. So, RemoteNoPressure.com. All of our socials are on there too if you scroll down. We're really pushing our mailing list. We're adding a lot more value to that to people who…
Katie
Oh yeah I hear it’s really well written.
Jeff
Oh, thank you. Thank you. It is it's a it's just a work of art really everyone that we've cut out. No, we are really we're really upping the game there because the algorithms change so much so like Facebook. I don't even really focus on Instagram is our main one, but the the algorithms can change So if we have your if we have your email address Then that really keeps us in touch. So but you can sign up for emailing our email us that remote no pressure calm Jeff Troutman, you just Google it or ask Siri to play the music And that's my songs about fly-fishing album and then are my new single How long which is a song I wrote back in 2002, but I like I love the song So how long is out was just released and those are all the major platforms. So yeah
Katie
Alright, awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on and hopefully chat soon.
Jeff
Yeah, no problem. Thanks.
Katie
All right, and that'll do it for episode number five I'm going to keep this section a little short today and instead close it out to one of Jeff's songs called "Sixth Street Dam."
Sixth Street Dam by Jeff Troutman plays
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