Ep 2: Summer Fly Fishing in Colorado, with Jay Scott
The host of the Jay Scott Outdoors Podcast, Jay Scott is a well-known name in the hunting world, but he’s also an avid fly fisherman. Jay spends his summers in central CO chasing beautiful wild trout. In this episode, we discuss Colorado’s heavy snow year, fishing the Roaring Fork Valley, and the world-famous salmonfly hatch.
Instagram: @jayscottoutdoors
Website: http://jayscottoutdoorspodcast.com/
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Intro
You're listening to the Wild Initiative podcast network. Learn more and check out all the shows at the wild initiative dot com.
Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, where we talk all things fishing, conservation, and the outdoors. Today on the show, I'm joined by Jay Scott, host of the Jay Scott Outdoors Podcast. All right. Welcome to episode number two of the Fish Untamed Podcast. Today I'm talking to someone who's probably familiar to most of you, and that's Jay Scott from the Jay Scott Outdoors podcast. Jay spends a lot of his time hunting down in Arizona, but he also spends his summers up here in Colorado fly fishing. So we had a great time talking about some of the larger rivers in central Colorado and floating them with some of the local guide services and the world famous salmon fly hatch that happens here every June. So if you've ever considered coming out to Colorado to hit some of those larger rivers, the roaring fork or the eagle or if you've ever wanted to come out and hit the salmon fly hatch in June, this will be a great one for you. So without further ado, here's my chat with J. Scott.
Jay
Cool. Well, I'm looking forward to coming on with you.
Katie
Yeah, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. I don't know if you remember me, but I had messaged you on Instagram back in the day asking for elk hunting tips.
Jay
Yeah. How did that go?
Katie
I didn't get any but I did have a couple encounters which I considered a success for my first year out.
Jay
Awesome. Are you still at it? Still doing it?
Katie
Yeah. I have a first season rifle tag this year and then archery deer starting next weekend.
Jay
Oh, awesome. Looking forward to that. Awesome. Now, where are you living?
Katie
I'm in Lakewood. Just outside Denver.
Jay
Cool.
Katie
I'm pretty familiar with the area that you live in during the summer. I think over in the Carbondale, Basalt, Eagle area. Am I right?
Jay
So yeah, I'm kind of between Carbondale and Basalt, which is about halfway between Glenwood Springs and Aspen. And right here in the Roaring Fork Valley. So yeah, I get a lot of really good fishing. We had high water this year. So it was, it was an interesting year for sure.
Katie
Yeah, I usually do at least one or two trips over to like the Frying Pan and the Roaring Fork each year, but I didn't go this summer. thinking about going this fall but how was it this summer after such a snowy winter?
Jay
You know once the water came down which you know to be honest it really didn't get what I would call fishable and kind of the levels that I like until probably about August 1st which is crazy usually we're fishing you know last week of June it was really really good so it was hard to wait that long. I wanted to go and fish right here in my home waters, but was able to go to the green multiple times and catch an amazing cicada hatch there and did the Gunnison Gorge, which was fantastic, and the Eagle and a bunch of other different rivers. It was a little bit of an interesting year as far as just timing, wanting to get out there sooner and kind of had to wait. I was like a little bit of a cooped up dog, but yeah, once it started, it was fun.
Katie
probably gonna last pretty late into the fall then too.
Jay
Yeah you know I gotta head over to the Aught6 Ranch here September 1st so Saturday morning. But quite honestly probably some of the best fishing of the year is you know gonna be over the next 60 days. So pretty neat to come off a year last year where it was so dry and droughty to you know such a great snowfall year. You know it's great for the fish, it's great for everything, the water is just awesome.
Katie
Have you been over to the ranch at all so far?
Jay
Yeah, so I've been over there. I got back from my Gould's Turkey hunting in May. We come from Arizona around May 15th and we're here for the summers. I was over there June, July, and August. I made several trips over there checking trail cameras and just checking conditions. Interesting, it's been, I don't know about where you've been, but such a dry August. August has been very, very dry, not only in Arizona, but pretty much everything that happens down there kind of moves up here the next day or two. And here in the Roaring Fork Valley, it's just been virtually no rain at all. And then over there at the Ot Six Ranch, very, very dry. Now conditions look pretty good in the high country, but kind of down by the ranch house and some of the lower country, it's pretty dry, But we had a great winter, so I can't complain.
Katie
Yeah, we were just talking about that, I think yesterday here, how all through June and July, we were like, this feels like spring, which we usually don't even get much of a spring out here. And we're like, everything's so green. And then yesterday we were like, it hasn't rained in a couple of weeks. And it was raining every day for months, it seemed.
Jay
Yeah, it's made the hopper fishing actually really, really good. Sometimes we'll get those big rains and it kind of knocks those hoppers down. but August that hasn't rained hardly at all, literally here at all, that the Roaring Fork Valley, the fish are actually eating hoppers on the fork, which is not, I mean, I would say I haven't caught a ton of fish in years past on hoppers, but a lot of that too is that I'm not fishing August 25th 'cause the water's come down, now it's at great levels and so they are still eating hopper, they're eating hoppers right now.
Katie
So just for a little background, want to talk about how you got into it? I know you're mostly a hunting-focused podcast, but every summer I look forward to hearing all your fishing episodes because they come out. If you just want to give a little background on how you got into hunting and fishing and then what you do now with the podcast and everything.
Jay
Yeah, so how many hours do we have?
Katie
As long as you need.
Jay
I'm kind of a story of... I was one of those kids that wanted to hunt and fish ever since I was a little kid. My grandma actually bought me a field and stream. I come from a ranching background and on that side bought me Field and Stream Magazine, Outdoor Life Magazine, and I was the kid that would always crease the little corners in the magazine on the little tips or this out of the other on, you know, the secret fly or, and I didn't even know what all that meant. I was also the kid that would go into a tackle shop and, you know, stick my hand in the, you know, the plastic worms and, you know, feel them and just like, oh man. And I was any chance that I got to go fishing, I soaked it up, but I wasn't exposed to it a lot. That's why I love to take kids fishing now. I love to take new people fishing and get them into the sport. I was one of those that wanted to get into it, but I didn't really have as much of the outlet that I would have liked to have. But at an early age, when I did get to go fishing, I was the kid that stood on the side of the bank with the Zebco 33 reel. I had my bobber and I had everything all lined up, because I had read about it in a magazine. Then, I'd see the guy go by with the boat, had the outboard motor. Then, I'd watch him come in in 4 or 5 hours, and he'd have a big stringer of trout. I was just like, "Man, if I could just get in that boat, I just want to fish!" And so for hunting and fishing, I've just had a passion since I was a little kid and very grateful for some of the people that were able to expose me to it and take me out. And the passion for hunting and fishing both run as deep as it ever has. And literally, my wife would say that I am like a kid in a candy store. Every day I get to fish, hunt, do whatever. I just love it. So I'm constantly thinking about where I'm going to fish next, what I'm going to fish, how I'm going to do it, what I'm going to do better. And the same thing with hunting. So it's just a great-- and living in Arizona, it's a very arid state. It's not the most opportunistic state like, say, Colorado here. So probably, oh, 15-- well, it's been longer than that, probably close to 20 years now. I've been trying to spend the summers in Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, those types of places where I could fish as much as possible.
Katie
Yeah, it sounds like the perfect escape. Once it gets super hot down in Arizona, just come up into the mountains and kind of get to be in the outdoors year-round. You ski too a little bit, right?
Jay
Yeah, I snow skied as a little kid growing up, probably until I was 20 years old, maybe just 22 or so. Then I laid off for 20 years. I say I went to work and then about two years ago, we bought this place here. We'd been renting in this valley for like eight years and the place that we were renting came for sale. So I bought it and was able to ski last winter and or the winter before and then this last winter, I only got seven days in. That's a whole nother story, but I just love snow skiing as well. You know, I'm one of those guys, I'm all in whatever I do. I go just a hundred miles an hour and go as hard as I can. Uh, and not necessarily from a skill level, but more just from a passion level, just go for it. And so, yeah, I enjoy snow skiing as well.
Katie
It's nice. It fits right in with all the other seasons. You know, there's not much else taking up your time and, uh,
Jay
that's exactly right. It's a great filler. Um, you know, with fishing season, people always ask, you know, would you rather hunt or fish? I'm like, don't make me choose. and you know it's funny this summer I've actually picked up golf again. I used to golf in high school and college. I actually went had a small golf scholarship and played a lot of golf and then gave it up for 20 years while I was working doing my real estate business. I've picked it back up this summer and just really enjoying golf as well. I'm constantly doing something for sure.
Katie
That's great. Just keeps you out and about.
Jay
It keeps me out of trouble is what it does.
Katie
Do you do much fishing at all down in Arizona or is it pretty strictly separated? You save the fishing for when you come up here.
Jay
Yeah, as arid as our state is in Arizona, we do have some really good fishing with Lee's Ferry. We fished it a ton and over a time period we fished a lot. We have some small creeks and lakes and that kind of thing, but compared to Colorado, it's nothing like what we have here. opportunity in Colorado and Jackson Hole, Wyoming and wherever we end up going is way better than Arizona. Arizona has taught me a lot about fishing, too. I can't complain.
Katie
Yeah, for sure. Do you guide fishing as well or is that just hunting?
Jay
I'd have to go back to give you the exact, but about 20 years ago I got my hunting and fishing guides license in Arizona. And the reason I got a fishing guides license is because it didn't cost me any more money and all I had to do is take a fishing test. I thought, well, I'm here. I might as well just get them both. But I've never taken an actual guided fishing trip, so to speak, in Arizona. And I'm not a licensed guide in Colorado for fishing, mainly just fish with family and friends. My big joke now is, "I'll row the boat all you want, but you're tying your own flies and you're getting your own fish off the hook." If people can't do that, then they need to stay home and they laugh. I am a licensed guide, but I'm not an active guide as far as fishing. Just hunting.
Katie
Sure. And you do real estate as well, right? Professionally?
Jay
Real estate is my main business. When I graduated from Arizona State University in 19, I got my real estate license right out of college in 1997, and I worked really, really hard in selling residential land in Northeast Scottsdale, kind of a Northeast part of Phoenix, and worked that market really, really hard from 2007 to 2008 when the market crashed, and was fortunate to have good timing and be in the right place at the right time. And then when the market crashed, was able to make some really good investments in some single family rental homes and other things, when the market had buying stuff at 10 cents on the dollar, 20 cents on the dollar. So from a real estate perspective, the reason I'm able to do a lot of the hunting and fishing and stuff that I do is basically based directly are attributed directly to the success that I had in real estate. I'm not near as active as I used to be. I still do a few deals here and there. I'm a real estate junkie so I'm always looking. I'm always messing with it. There was a period of time from '07 to '08 where I was just hot and heavy. I still hunted and fished just as much pretty much but I worked a lot.
Katie
Yeah, I'm sure it's got to be stressful trying to maintain a job but then also trying to
Jay
keep those passions alive. It's a lot easier when things are stable. The beautiful thing was the real estate business was pretty much, I didn't do much acting as an agent. I was basically representing myself and buying and selling properties. I was my own worst enemy in that I had a million things going but I still had to go fish and hunt and do all the different things. I could do it. My wife would tell you I'm a workaholic. I work a lot. A lot of people see all my hunting and fishing and they're like, "You don't work at all." I'm like, "Well, I mean there's several ways to skin a cat but I like to stay busy for sure."
Katie
I was gonna actually mention that between your hunting, fishing, golf, skiing and actually having a job.
Jay
Sounds pretty recreational, doesn't it?
Katie
You have a lot going on.
Jay
One of the things with being a hunting guide, I was able to take the passion of hunting and become a professional guide. It allows me to be in the field a lot and kind of justify to myself the amount of time that I spend with my podcast. It's just an extension of what I do. My wife says, "You're talking to your buddies on the phone all the time about hunting and fishing, so why not just talk to them on a podcast?" I thought, "Oh, that's a good idea." That's just been an extension of what I do every day.
Katie
Yeah, and I feel like your podcasts are pretty thorough. Listening to yours, they're very information heavy. You'll go dive into one specific unit or just have guys come on who know so much. I usually listen to my podcasts at a higher rate of speed but I need to slow yours down sometimes to take it all in.
Jay
Well it's one of those things. I hope to not put too many people to sleep but I'm super information heavy and education heavy. interview people and I love being able to pull little nuggets and gems of information out of people and I feel like I'm pretty good at that. I kind of have a niche for it. Um, a knack for it, I guess I should say. Uh, and I've had some phenomenal guests and it's just been a real blessing to be able to, you know, help people. And, um, so I, I love doing it and it's, uh, you know, it's one of those things that I feel like information and education go a long way. I'm not an entertaining guy. My wife says I have a radio face. We're doing here a video podcast so we'll see how that goes. The podcast is just a great way for me to talk about the things that I love to do and pick people's brains and try and extract as much useful information for other people that I can out of it.
Katie
Yeah, that's kind of how I got pulled into this as well. I also have the site I post on weekly. It's just a good way. A couple months ago, I severed a tendon in my foot. I was boot-ridden for a while and couldn't really do much. It was really nice to have an outlet for me to feel like I was still interacting with what I want to be doing even if I can't actually be out there. It's just really nice. On any given day, I'm probably not going fishing, but I can still pretend I am.
Jay
Yeah, I mean, it's awesome to talk about the things you love for sure. How's your foot now?
Katie
It's better now. I'm still in physical therapy, but I've resumed most normal activities. I was using that medical boot as a waiting boot for a while though. It was foamy and it would suck up all the water and got really...
Jay
I'm sure.
Katie
I just couldn't wait anymore.
Jay
Can you say the word mildew?
Katie
No, I thoroughly dried it out each night. Where have you been fishing recently? What’s your main river?
Jay
The Roaring Fork is probably my main river here. We've got about 40 miles of Roaring Fork from Aspen down to Glenwood Springs. Then it joins the Colorado there. There's probably another 40-50 miles from Glenwood all the way down to Parachute or below that. And then, you know, the Eagle River Valley, which is the next valley over. It's kind of the Vale Valley. I fish the Eagle River a lot. And then, like I said, this year was a phenomenal year up at the Green River below Flaming Gorge. I try and make two or three trips up there a summer. It's only a four-hour drive from here. And the Cicada Hatch this year was, I mean, it was something that I, it's the best Cicada Hatch fishing I've ever seen. It seemed like every trip I went, it just got better and better and better. Friends over there that guide, they were saying they were catching fish on cicadas all the way through July, which is rare. The fish there at the Green River, it's a tailwater and they're really big fish. They see a lot of flies, but if you're able to get the fly in the right spot and throw what they're eating, they'll just come up and smash it. If you've never been to a cicada or a true cicada hatch, I highly recommend the Green River. It's phenomenal. And then the Gunnison Gorge, we did a trip down there, caught the salmon fly hatch just perfect.
Katie
Yeah, so I was going to ask if you got to fish that.
Jay
Yeah, I try and hit that every year. You know, I've had some unbelievable mentors, guides, buddies of mine, Eli and Hunter and Keaton and Jake Kepler, some of those guys that have, you know, kind of took me under their wing and kind of showed me the ropes of that local water. You know, the salmon fly hatch, what's amazing about that, Katie, is the golden stones are going off at the same time as the salmon flies. And you know, there's Black Canyon anglers and then Gunnison River Expeditions. Those are kind of the two main guide services that'll take people down the Gunnison Gorge. I highly recommend that to people. And if you can get a trip with Eli and Hunter, Jake, or Keaton, and they work at those two companies respectively, I highly, highly recommend the Gunnison Gorge trip. This is an amazing place. It's from Chukar Trail down to Pleasure Park. It's about a 14 mile float, which a lot of the guide services, they'll split it up in two nights in the canyon, three days of fishing. We stayed, we just did a one overnight there And a lot of times I'll just do it all in one day and just do a 14 mile float. But we pack my, I've got a little nine foot six or nine foot eight, five foot wide raft that it's 110 pounds of frame. And we break it up between the frame and the raft and take all our gear down there. And I row and my buddy fishes, depending on which buddy's here. And it's just an amazing place. You gotta do it if you haven't done it.
Katie
I haven't done it. I'm jealous of your ability to float. I was thinking maybe you were going to say that you went with those guide services. I feel like he does it enough that it sounds like he's got access to something on his own.
Jay
I went with them and they showed me the ropes. I highly recommend Black Canyon Anglers and Gunnison River Expeditions. If you could get any of those four guides, I know them personally and they're fantastic. They're way better at it than I am. They know the fish, they know the fishery, they know everything about it. I highly recommend them. It's an amazing place. Usually we'll make a trip up to Wyoming and fish around Jackson Hole. We didn't this year just with the water being high, just timing and everything. It just didn't work out.
Katie
Have you fished anywhere else in Wyoming? I've only hit the Casper area,
Jay
Yeah, so I've fished all around Jackson Hole. I've fished the South Fork of the Snake, which is in Idaho up over Driggs. It's an amazing river below Palisades Reservoir. It's actually in Idaho. And then the upper green river, which is about an hour south of Jackson, is an amazing fishery. And that is the same green that flows into Fontenelle Reservoir that then flows into Flaming Gorge Reservoir that then creates the ABC section that I was talking about on the Cicada Hatch. So the upper green is a crazy, amazing river as well. Starts out as this little river like most, and then just turns into the Green River. It's a big, big river.
Katie
Going back to the Salmon Fly Hatch, what are you usually catching on those and what sizes? Roughly.
Jay
Usually, I mean, those Salmon Flies throughout the stage of the hatch, they can kind of come in anywhere from like a 4 to 6 to 8. So you're throwing something that's 2 inches long, usually like a Flush Floater, you know, which is a type of fly that Umpqua, the company Umpqua sells. It's called a flush floater salmon fly. And, you know, you throw it out there, you slap it on the water. You throw it in close to the canyon walls. A lot of times you're coming down river and you can actually see where a fish has grabbed a salmon fly and splattered water up on the wall. So you look for that. And so you can kind of cast about two feet in front of that. and that same fish is going to come hit your fly.
Katie
So I assume that there's sheer canyon walls straight down into deep water. Obviously, it sounds like you can camp in certain areas as you go down, but a lot of it's just that sheer cliff?
Jay
Well, there's definitely a main canyon section. But within the canyon section, there is areas where it's alluvial and it's opened up. And there's maybe a couple of small little tributary-type drainages or creeks that come in and you get grassy banks and some of that stuff. So it's not all canyon walls out of the 14 miles. And then also, above where everybody puts in on the Gunnison Gorge, there's, I don't know exactly, but I think there's another 15 miles above that that's in the National Park that's all for wade fishing. Basically you just wade and that water comes out of Blue Mesa Reservoir. And that can also be an amazing fishery with some access points. Like you can drive to the east portal and that's out of Montrose on the way to Gunnison. And, you know, you'll get those salmon flies that start down low, all the way down below Pleasure Park above Delta and they'll run all the way up the canyon and then they'll run the whole stretch and I'm guessing it's close to 30 miles all the way up to the head Canyon, almost up to the dam there at Blue Mesa Reservoir. So Gunnison River is an amazing fishery for sure. A lot of brown trout. Was known for rainbow trout a long time ago, and then they got whirling disease, and then the browns have really, really taken over.
Katie
Yeah, that's what I picture when I picture the salmon fly hash, is a lot of big browns. What time of year does it usually-- is it usually about two weeks long?
Jay
Yeah, those guys that taught me the ropes could probably tell you better. Normally it's prime for about two weeks. But if you're starting the progression of the hatch way down river where the water -- you've got the north fork of the Gunnison, you've got the Gunnison, it's got big muddy water basically. And so it's not extremely fishable till those bugs really kind of get in the canyon. But I would say from start to finish, about two weeks is a good guess for sure. And it's usually like the about the 5th of June till about the 25th of June, if I had to guess. I mean, you'll see sporadic bugs in late May and you'll see sporadic bugs probably in the early July. And then, like I said, the crazy thing is the golden stones are also coming off at the same time and they're virtually the same size. So you could be throwing a golden stone or you could be throwing a salmon fly and those fish, they'll smash it for sure.
Katie
And I assume there's really no point to fishing anything else during that. They're keying in on those big bugs.
Jay
Yeah, once they kind of get a feel for that, they're keyed in. was interesting from what my guide buddies told me is that the nymphs, the fish were so keyed in on the nymphs it took them a while to want to take the dries because the salmon flies you know are crawling, they're the largest of the stonefly and they're crawling out of the river bottom onto the shore to dry their wings and become an adult that the fish just start eating the nymph like crazy below the surface. It took them a while to get on the dries, but then once they get on the dries, they're on them pretty good. It's interesting here in the Roaring Fork Valley, we're known for our Green Drake Hatch. This year, with the water being so high, it kind of made the drakes -- it's water temperature related -- but the drakes just poured off from below Glenwood like it's Silt or Newcastle all the way up and you know at any given time usually there's a progression of a hatch it starts down low and works its way up and every you know every day or so it's moved up a half mile or so. This year it was kind of like drakes were going off at all times it's sporadic times for sure.
Katie
Huh I've fished drakes on the Roaring Fork a couple times only up like in Aspen area where it starts to get pretty pretty small. Do you fish it up there at all or are you more like a big river down lower toward Glenwood?
Jay
I like it all but you know the interesting thing about the roaring fork is it's a true freestone river so I mean you get up by Aspen and it takes on a whole new kind of you know pocket water you know like Jaffee Park and above there where it's pocket water and and kind of a small creek, small stream, although it's not called the Roaring Fork for nothing. I mean, it roars, you know, a small river, but it really can kick out some water. And then you get further down by Glenwood and it's, you know, a wider river and, you know, more glassy and smooth. And, you know, so it just kind of depends what kind of mood I'm in.
Katie
Right. And the, going off what you said about it, definitely roaring. I can attest to that. And when I think of some of the hardest rivers to wade, in terms of how slippery they are, the rocks in that river are just round and extremely slick. And I've gone through there more than once, arms linked with other people. So if someone goes out, then everyone's there to catch them, especially when the water's high.
Jay
Yeah, and right now, those rocks are so, so slick. And over the next couple of weeks, I imagine they're going to be getting even more slick with the moss and such on them. Up high, there's not a lot of moss on the rocks because the water's-- the gradient is-- the water's going fast enough that the moss just can't grow. But down from, say, Carbondale down to Glenwood, there's quite a bit of moss. And the rocks are very, very slick. Interesting, this year in-- let's see, it must have been around 4th of July. First time this ever happened to me, rowing in my big boat. I just took a friend of mine's kids for a fun float. and we floated from the ranch here where I live down to West Bank, which is about halfway between Carbondale and Glenwood. We were middle of the river and I kept hearing what I thought was rocks rolling. Well, it was, it was the rocks on the bottom of the river literally going (imitates rock rolling) and felt like, they sounded like they were going faster than the 13-foot raft I was rowing. So that was the first time I've ever actually heard rocks consistently rolling in the middle of the river. you know, it was, I want to say that day it was flowing at like, I don't know, 7 or 8,000 CFS and those river rock were, it was amazing to hear and it was so cool. Just sound like literally you were rolling rocks down a cliff face.
Katie
Yeah, that's crazy. I would, you know, obviously you were in a boat but definitely don't want to get in the water when that's happening.
Jay
I'm sure the fish were like, "What the heck is going on?" and hugging the bank tight, trying to just survive. That actually was really good, I think, for the fish this year. They got a big, long break between what we call mud season and the water was so high for so long. The fish are pretty healthy and hot and we had some really good fishing once the water came down.
Katie
I'm wondering how the high alpine fish are doing. There's been a couple lakes that have just iced out. I don't know if there's still any ice on them but in the past couple weeks I know some were still losing their ice which just seems like they're not gonna get a very big window this year.
Jay
Yeah that's true I've had some buddies that have done quite a bit of fishing for you know in high mountain lakes for cutthroat and stuff and said it's been a fantastic year but yeah some of those really really high lakes definitely that those fish are probably feeding like crazy because they've been cooped up for all spring and then they know winter's coming.
Katie
Not far off now. I guess it depends on how this winter goes. It could start in December, it could start in October.
Jay
Yeah, it's crazy right now. It feels like old-timers call it like an Indian summer where it's just hot. Normally, by about the 15th of August in this valley, we'll have overnight lows in the high 30s, low 40s. I mean, it's been like 52 to 55 for, seemed like the last month. So yes, I feel fall coming, but it's still really, really warm. I mean, normally it's like 75. It's, you know, it's still 88 to 90 degrees.
Katie
Yeah, I've seen a couple trees down here starting to slightly change their colors. And I'm like, I think you're a little premature 'cause it seems like there's not much sign of cooling down yet.
Jay
Yeah, we'll see how that goes. You know, this valley is an amazing valley to see the leaf change. Especially up by Aspen, you get just unreal. And then going over towards Gunnison, anybody ever looking to go look at some awesome Aspen leaf change, color change, drive that Kebler Pass, basically from Carbondale up by Redstone over the top, going into Crested Butte. just amazing forest of aspen that's just out of this world.
Katie
Yeah, we've gotten caught in a couple traffic jams going over Kenosha Pass the past couple years because that's already a busy place to go hike and everything during the summer. I've been stuck in hour-long traffic jams just because people are crossing the road up there trying to get back and forth between the different sides of the trail.
Jay
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Katie
I know it's awesome when you can, like I said, we usually go over to the Frying Pan usually once or twice a year. Lately we've been doing it more in the fall just because the crowds are a little lower and it's a little cooler out. But that canyon just lights up in the fall. You know the sun on the red canyon and all those leaves.
Jay
So my buddies over there that fish it quite a bit say that the green drakes have already started. The PMDs are really going. but the drakes, you know, they'll expect them all the way through September. So if you can get out there, I know you'll probably be doing some elk hunting, but the drakes, they're saying it's gonna be a phenomenal drake year over on the Frying Pan.
Katie
All right, yeah, I'd love to make it over there. I think we're not gonna make it over until probably late October. We go and do the pumpkins where, you know, people leave pumpkins all through the cane and everything. It's just nice to be out there when there's fewer people. But by that time, I feel like there's kind of a hodgepodge. sometimes we'll still be getting some PMDs coming off depending on how warm it gets. Some streamer fishing. I don't know. It's like a hodgepodge time of year, I feel like, depending on how the summer goes.
Jay
There's some huge fish in that river, too.
Katie
There are. Unbelievable. I feel like my average fish size has gone down there over the years. I first fished it in, I think, 2012. I feel like at that point, it was almost every fish I caught out of that river was pretty large. In the past two or three years, I've noticed some smaller ones. Maybe 10-ish inches. I feel like it was a bit smaller than I had in the past.
Jay
That is a good sign. If the fish are smaller, you probably have a lot more fish that are naturally reproducing. It's a double-edged sword. The fish are smaller, but there's probably some good reproducing going on there. That's a good thing.
Katie
I've also tried to commit more to trying to fish dries there.
Jay
That could be a huge part of it. If
Katie
you want to catch the big ones, you should probably stay subsurface a little longer.
Jay
Down and dirty.
Katie
There are so many pockets in that river that you can just spot and just watch your dry just drift right over it. I'd rather do that.
Jay
You know, it's funny, fly fishing, at least speaking for myself, you go through stages where you just want to catch every river, catch every fish in the river. Then you want to catch them all on streamers. Then you want to catch them all on dries. You know, it's, it's, it's, that's the thing I love about fly fishing is there's so many aspects to it. No matter what you're using, you can figure out a way to catch them. And, and, you know, part of the strategy and the tactic of, you know, the setup and, you high stick and whatever. Now with the Euro nymphing craze, there's just so many ways you can be a total junkie and that's why I like fly fishing. I tend to lean towards being a streamer junkie and being a dry fly junkie myself. But there was a time I used to just love to go down and dirty and nymph like crazy and catch every fish in the river. So there's a time for everything I guess.
Katie
It's kind of a choose your own adventure every time you go out. I wouldn't say that I only subscribe to one thing or the other, but when given the choice, I like to throw dries. Most days, especially in the pan, I start the morning with a couple nymphs down below. I do streamers occasionally, but that's probably my least used fly.
Jay
There's just something about whether it be dries or streamers for me, watching fish come and hitch or fly, you know, whether it be a slow take on a hopper, you know, a sporadic, you know, catastrophized or, you know, a sipper on a mayfly. And then, you know, you get those fish chasing streamers, that visual aspect, you know, I'll fish a, I'll fish a streamer that I can see over fishing a streamer that I'll catch more fish on just because of the visual aspect, you know, fish a white streamer that I can see a fish chase rather than fish a dark, even though maybe the day that, you know, going to call for a dark just because I love to watch the visual aspect of trout feeding on my fly specifically.
Katie
Yeah especially those waters over there they're so clear you can often you know watch a fish rise over and over and over again and you get to know I feel like you to know that fish you know you could be sitting there for half an hour trying to get into you know if you finally do get it you're like it's a very satisfying feeling to know which fish you're going after.
Jay
Yeah you know I learned that when I was in New Zealand I I was over there for two weeks and got to fish nine days. And it's a totally different story over there because there's very few fish. You're hunting for the fish. You're trying to watch and find the fish. And you may go a half mile and there not be any other fish. And then you may get a shot or two at that fish and he spooked and you got to go another half mile to find a fish. So we have it pretty good here, I think in the West and the numbers of fish and the size of fish that we have. We have some amazing rivers here in the West.
Katie
Yeah, I've been hearing that about New Zealand. My friend's going there in a month or two and she's looking forward to it, but we were talking about it. I was like, I think, you know, there's, it's supposed to be like you get one or two shots a day at fish, but if you do catch one, it's gonna be the biggest fish you've ever caught. Did you have any luck down there?
Jay
Yeah, we caught some really big fish, really big brown trout. And, you know, I'd love to go back. I keep telling my wife I'd like to go back for like a month or more where I can really spend time and not feel like I'm rushed. You know, I felt like before I was there for two weeks and did fish nine days, but you know, I would love to go for like a month and fish, you know, 15, 18 days, but feel like I could space it out and, you know, really give it my all on the days that I was fishing. But if you get a chance to go, it's unreal place for sure. We were on the South Island and crystal clear water in most of the places we fished. There are just some absolute giant fish there.
Katie
Did you take a guide or is that a place you can do DIY? I picture it being hard to figure out because there are so few opportunities, but it also sounds like maybe you just walk until you find one.
Jay
I actually went all the time with a guide the nine days that I did fish. I actually booked a trip to the best of New Zealand fly fishing. Um, and this goes back to 2005. So it's been quite a while, but we, we, we had a amazing trip, uh, and it was very well planned out and the guides were fantastic and I think it is a place where you could go and do some DIY. Again, I think it's probably a place where if you could go for a month or so, and really devote the time to just kind of messing around and a little bit trial by air type of thing. When you go on a shorter window, you feel like if you're just blowing a day, it's hard to take. The Kiwi guys were fantastic for sure.
Katie
I was in New Zealand in 2014, I think. I was there because I had been studying abroad in Australia. I just took a quick trip over there for eight or nine days. Unfortunately, the trip was not for New Zealand. The trip was for studying abroad. So I wasn't planning my time or anything, but I was super excited to fish. And then right before I left, I was like, wait a minute, it's the opposite of the Northern Hemisphere. And I got there and it wasn't just that the fishing wasn't good that time of year. It was that it was mostly closed because it was fawning season. They wouldn't let you fish for them. So I got to fish in one of the lakes I was near. I didn't catch anything. I was just kind of winging it because I wanted to give it a shot. I didn't catch anything and I'd encourage anyone going to remember that the seasons are not the same as they are here.
Jay
Ben: Yeah, for sure. That's one of the nice things when it's cold here. You can go down there and it's warm and vice versa. That's cool that you studied in Australia. I haven't gotten to Australia yet, but it's definitely on my list. Bekkah:
Katie
I keep hearing more and more about Australian fly fishermen.
Jay
I do too.
Katie
Fishing for like Murray cod and all the stuff they have over there. That'd be a cool thing to check off the list.
Jay
Definitely.
Katie
Well, Jay, I can let you get going soon because I know we've been going for a while here. If there's anything else you want to mention about fishing in the Glenwood area or about your hunting services or real estate or anything, feel free to throw out some plugs for yourself.
Jay
Well, anybody that's out there listening, if they're not familiar with this Roaring Fork Valley or the Eagle River Valley, with the towns of Vail, Aspen, Glenwood Springs, it's a fantastic area, even over at Gunnison or down to Montrose. There's so much fishing in central Colorado and southwestern Colorado. I highly encourage you guys to just come out and check it out. There's lots of great fly shops, lots of great guides this area. And, you know, lots of resources where you could get on and find a lot of places to fish DIY as well. So, you know, we've got, like I said, the Green Drake hatch, you know, in this valley, you've got phenomenal caddis hatches as well. So, to all your listeners out there, come check it out. It is a beautiful area. And, yeah, just want to thank you for having me on and congratulate you on the success of your podcast. It's awesome to see you doing well and flourishing with this venture of yours. So that's really, really cool. And yeah, you know, if anybody wants to hear any more about I guess they can come on Instagram at J Scott Outdoors. And then I also have a podcast, you can find it on iTunes, J Scott outdoors podcast. I just appreciate you thinking of me and I love chatting, hunting, and fishing. Hats off to you for doing this great podcast that you do.
Katie
Thanks, I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on and I would definitely encourage anyone to go check out your podcast too because it's a lot of hunting but there's also a lot of really good fishing tidbits right in the middle of the summer there.
Jay
Yeah, you know a couple years ago I did one that I still get a lot of comments on. I don't know if you listened to it, Katie. I did a floating down the river on the Green River. I mic'd up my friend who's a guide with Spinner Fall Guide Service, Colby Crossland and still get comments about a cool podcast where I was fishing and my friend MJ was fishing and Colby was, you know, basically guiding, doing his guide talk. We're buddies, so he wasn't guiding, but, you know, like throw it here and this and that and the other and it made for a really exciting podcast episode from what people tell me.
Katie
Yeah, I do remember that one. That was pretty cool. You've done a couple of those live on the water ones. Anyone who wants to go join on a trip with you guys, just go listen in on those ones.
Jay
Sounds good. Well, I really appreciate you having me on. God bless you and keep up the great work.
Katie
Yeah, thanks. You too, Jay.
Outro
All right, and that'll do it for episode number two. If you liked what you heard, go ahead go over to the Wild Initiative podcast. That's where all my episodes are coming out right now, so go ahead and subscribe there. And my episodes will also live on fishuntamed.com in addition to weekly backcountry fly fishing articles. You can also find me on Instagram @fishuntamed or on Go Wild under my name, Katie Burgert. And I will be back here next week. So until then, have a good one.
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