Ep 173: Fishing Interior Alaska, with Oliver Ancans
Oliver Ancans is a hunter and angler who spends a lot of time in the Brooks Range and interior Alaska. In this episode, we talk about fishing seasonality in interior Alaska, how to access fishing spots on the road system, how to book a bush plane, rod selection, techniques, and the importance of keeping wild places wild.
Instagram: @olleyeh
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing in the backcountry. This is episode 173 with Oliver Ancans on Fishing Interior Alaska. Well, I start every episode by getting a background on my guests and how they got introduced to the outdoors and specifically into fly fishing. I saw that you said that you've been a lifelong fly fisherman, so I'd love to hear how you got introduced to the sport in the first place. I'm going to talk to you about the sport.
Oliver
Yeah. So my dad kind of introduced me when I was really young. I think I was three. And I threw a picture up on my Instagram when I was, you know, three and, you know, held in a fly rod and catching some stocked rainbows out in Bozeman, Montana at a buddy's at a buddy's pond. He kind of, you know, would stock them with nice rainbows. So my dad and I would go out there and throw hopper flies to him. And, you know, that's kind of where I got started. And then I asked him, you know, later on down the line, like, you know, because he's an outdoorsman, I guess. You know, he's a bird hunter and my mom likes to, you know, be outside and hike and do all these things. But I kind of asked him, you know, what happened and where, you know, where I derailed from just kind of being a general outdoorsman to turning into just a specific thing and which is fly fishing. And he said, I don't know. He's like, you grabbed it and just ran with it. And and that's kind of where, you know, that was it. That's all you ever want to do is go fish. And whether it was fly fishing or conventional fishing or, you know, anything, he's like, you know, you just grabbed it. And I don't know what happened. I don't know where that came from. You know, no one in our family is like that. So, yeah, I just kind of grabbed a hold of it and I was lucky enough to move to Alaska, which, you know, is a blessing because it's amazing here. And, you know, kind of the fly fisherman's, you know, kind of paradise. So I took off from there and it's been, yeah, that's where it's been, you know, just kind of chasing that, chasing fish and everything.
Katie
So what does fly fishing as a three-year-old look like? Like I'm picturing a kid just kind of like smacking your rod against the ground or against the water and not going very well. So like, I don't know, did he like throw a hopper on the end of a line and, you know, let you have at it or was there helping or I'm just selfishly curious if I ever take a three-year-old fishing, you know, how do I do it?
Oliver
Yeah, I, you know, I don't know. He, you know, kind of taught me the basics. And I think he said, I kind of just picked it up. You know, I don't, I don't really, you know, I don't remember that much. I just see the pictures and everything. So, but, um, yeah, he just kind of grabbed or he kind of taught, you know, the basics and he said, I picked it up quickly and it kind of just ended up coming natural. And, you know, I'm sure as a three-year-old, you know, casting is, is challenging. Um, even for a 40 year old man, that's just starting or woman, you know, just starting casting can be challenging. So I'm sure there were challenges. And I remember getting a hook in the ear cause I was running around behind him while he was casting and, you know, trying to control a three-year-old, I'm sure, you know. But yeah, he said, I kind of picked it up, picked it up pretty quick. And, and that's, yeah, that's kind of kind of where it started. So yeah, I think just kind of having just basic fundamentals with casting is, you know, and be able to being able to pass that. So he must've been a pretty good teacher.
Katie
Yeah. Maybe it's partially like how much you were drawn to it. Cause it does seem like some kids just have like that bug, you know, you know, some kids really need to watch their dad do it or, or in some cases, even like their dad doesn't it and they have to kind of move out of the house and discover it on their own. And some kids are just like born with that bug. I was the same way. Like my family didn't really fish, but I just like wanted to be on the water. And I wonder if kids who have that bug just kind of naturally take to it a little bit faster because, you know, the fastest way to get a fish is to learn how to do it. So that makes sense.
Oliver
Yeah. And I watch, you know, the videos now of these, you know, people taking their kids fishing and their kids are young, young. And they're like, I mean, their casting is awesome. And like, you know, they're able to get it out there. And, you know, that stuff's really cool. I like watching that stuff, watching like the next generation of kids, you know, and, you know, it raises the next generation of, you know, conservationists and everybody and people that care about the resource. And it's great to start them young. And like it's, you know, I think those videos usually get, you know, hundreds of thousands of views with these little kids casting. It's really cool. You know, it's awesome. So.
Katie
Is fly fishing what took you to Alaska or did you head out there for another reason?
Oliver
I was active duty military. Okay. So, yeah, I was stationed in New Jersey and then I got stationed in, I got lucky enough to get orders to Fairbanks. So I was in Fairbanks for eight years and yeah. So, yeah, I just got lucky with military and, you know, you put enough, you tell people enough times you want to go to Alaska and, you know, be able to work out.
Katie
Well, it sounds like it worked out because I know Alaska, I've never been there, but I know Alaska is kind of like a fly fisherman's paradise. And I know that's what we're going to mostly talk about today. But what part of Alaska are you in these days? I'm down in Anchorage. Okay. Yeah. The guy who hooked us up said that you'd be great kind of talking about interior Alaska. And I actually talked to somebody last week about the Tongass. And it sounds like they're kind of different places. I mean, Alaska is absolutely huge. So I'm sure there's like a wide variety of terrain. But what's the terrain like that you, you know, you fish typically? And how does that compare to like the rest of Alaska if someone's just picturing a giant state like how much of this or how much of the state does like your kind of uh terrain cover
Oliver
so I think if you were to start you know if you were to picture Alaska everybody thinks of mountains you know it's a big mountain there's a lot of snow a lot of ice um interior is you know it's not really like that um a lot you know interiors there's obviously a lot of snow and winters are super long but it's relatively flat um if you were to if you were to say like you know it's almost kind of like like in North Dakota or like the UP, you know, in Michigan is like, there are, you know, there's some hills and there are some, you know, little mountains and stuff, but, um, down by down in Anchorage, you know, and I fish all over the state, you know? Um, so, but down in Anchorage, you know, it's super mountainous. Like I just went hiking today and like, it was like a, you know, just straight up the side of a mountain, you know, it's like, you know, it's kind of varies and Alaska is really cool that way as it has all these different opportunities and you go north and kind of looking at grayling and, you know, some Arctic char. And then, yeah, you come down to Anchorage and it's mostly rainbow trout and there's grayling down here too. And there are more, you know, Arctic char, but yeah, it's, it just kind of varies in like the Tongass, like you mentioned, that's a rainforest. And then, you know, we start going out West and it's kind of tundry and there's not many trees, you know, you go out towards like the Aleutians again, it's tundry, not many trees, but you know, there are mountain ranges throughout that area, those areas too. So yeah, I mean, down here, it's mostly rainbows. And yeah, you can start leading into other species as you kind of push further out though. So.
Katie
I always like to ask people about kind of the seasonality. I think that's a good way to kind of frame how the fishing is, especially in somewhere like Alaska where you've got migratory species coming in. Like it's going to really change here like throughout the year. So walk me through kind of what the seasonality around you fishing wise and we'll kind of dive deeper on, you know, like the weather and the daylight and all that too. But, you know, what species are you able to target at each time of the year?
Oliver
Oh, you can kind of, there's certain rivers that kind of stay open. So like the Kenai, for example, it's like, it's fishable all year except for the trout closure, which is May through like mid June. And it closes down for the trout spawn, which is awesome. And then you kind of lean into salmon start coming into like May, you're looking at some, uh, you're getting some Kings in and then June, it kind of picks up for, um, June, July kind of picks up for Kings. Um, and then you start getting pinks and, um, start getting pinks and chums and, and, uh, and sockeye. And then, um, a little bit later, the coho start to move in like end of July, but the salmon runs typically happen pretty quick. Um, and then the steelhead runs start to pick up in like late September. You start getting into some steelhead and there's a couple of spring runs, but those are usually got to fly around for those. And then they do close those like most of the road system stuff is closed for steelhead in the spring, which is which is really important, I think, too. But and then grayling pretty much anywhere there's open water. You know, you have a shot at catching the grayling and they're pretty opportunistic. So any little dry fly, anything that looks like a bug, they'll probably grab it. And then the rainbow fishing. Yeah, as far as road system stuff goes. Yeah, you're like, if you can get in open water where they're, you know, everything locks up typically, you know, about now. We're, you know, and it's, you know, September, November, you know, end of November, you're looking at most rivers are pretty well locked up right now with ice. There's a few, you know, going down south. And if you're brave enough to stay out west, you know, you can get into some rainbows yet. But most of that stuff is kind of slowing down. So, yeah, our season is short. But, you know, yeah.
Katie
Is winter kind of dead? Like, you find other things to do in the middle of winter?
Oliver
Yeah, I typically lean into ice fishing pretty hard. And we're, you know, all over the place with ice fishing. But there's opportunities, you know, to go try. But fishing slows way down. It's so cold and honestly fishing below, trying to fly fish below freezing is, it's fun. But, you know, the fish are slow. I'm slow. You know, I don't want to move around that much. So, you know, it's more of a social thing at that point. You're kind of making a fire and hanging out, go make a few casts, then defrost all your stuff again and go out and try again. So.
Katie
Sure. What are you ice fishing for typically? Is it like pike fishing or are you still fishing for like rainbows and things like that under the ice?
Oliver
Yeah, there's. um you know we have a lot of opportunity for rainbows and uh Alaska fishing game uh department fishing game stocks a ton of lakes with rainbows um but and then we you know we'll go do some pike fishing and stuff um but my big thing is is lake trout um we we target lake trout a lot and there's some awesome lake trout fishing up here um but it's challenging I mean every you know the big thing about Alaska is the access and that's what makes it so cool is the access is challenging and kind of turns into an event it's like you want to have a snow machine you want to have you know certain pieces of gear and and um you know that's all part of it so the access is pretty difficult but um you know if you know somebody here or live here you know you gather all the gear that you need you know you get out but there's plenty of plenty of rod system stuff you can go go ice fish to you know and catch rainbows and there's some lake trout that are accessible by the road system too um so yeah but yeah you catch pike char cradling you know kind of everything through the ice everything you can catch in the summer you can generally catch in the ice and there's even opportunities to catch like some salmon through the ice which is kind of crazy you know like that guys will every now and again stick a um like stick a like a spawned out sockeye through the ice. it's pretty weird
Katie
So are they ice fishing like on the rivers?
Oliver
yeah I mean the rivers freeze here and they're mostly safe. Um, but, uh, the sockeyes will kind of be, you know, they'll kind of be in like, um, you know, in like river outlets and lakes. So they'll kind of hang out there where they would spawn. And then you're, you're generally fishing for the other species. You're not trying to target the salmon. Um, you're not trying to mess with spawning salmon. That's kind of the, you know, kind of a rule, you know, don't mess around with spawning salmon, but, um, you know, it happens. So, you know, it's always kind of a weird thing. So, but yeah, you're generally targeting like burbot and and uh pike and in arctic char and stuff and rainbows
Katie
I’d love to hear a little more about the access mostly because um a lot of times in the context of Alaska I feel like people are talking about it you know somebody's traveling to Alaska to fish and they may be going with a guide and so there's there's you know you you fly to this airport you catch this bush plane you go to this camp you set up base camp and then they either fly you around or they boat you around or whatever it's kind of like taken care of for you and i'd love to hear the perspective of somebody who lives there who is just like trying to get out in the back country and go fish these places on your own, which might be more applicable to somebody who wants to travel up there but doesn't want to book like a kind of a package. They want to figure it out on their own. What is access like? Like what are the options that you're taking advantage of? Obviously, you mentioned the road system, but how often are you using things like the snow machine, like a boat or a float plane or anything like that? Like, you know, what are the access options like for somebody who just wants to go out and fish on their own?
Oliver
Access is, you know, and that's part of what makes Alaska great, right, is the access is tough. And, you know, that's why you can go somewhere for 10 days and not see anybody. Yeah. Or even see footprints, for that matter. You know, you can. So as far as what we do, I mean, we spend a lot of time in bush planes and spend a lot of time on snow machines to get out to these places and time signs it's sometimes it's 20 30 mile rides on a snow machine um you know to go out and ice fish these places um again and that's just like a you know a little tag to that it's like that's you know people that like winter they like winter because it opens up you know opens up different things um with a snow machine but anyways um yeah as far as um if somebody were to want to come up here I would recommend the first time you kind of go you know kind of go with a guide and you can kind of take notes and and figure out um if you're going way out um you know you need to be familiar with the country and be comfortable around bears and be comfortable around these you know this wildlife because you know even a moose can give you you know give you trouble um so you need to go with somebody that's comfortable and has a clue. I definitely would recommend if you don't if you're used to just kind of fishing road system stuff maybe in the lower 48 like go with some if you're coming up here like definitely go with somebody that kind of knows you know kind of has a clue a little bit um so you know the biggest part of that is kind of planning and doing a lot of research um you know figuring out where you want to go and where the takeouts are going to be and our put-ins and takeouts and where the bush plane's going to drop you and how far your float is um so diy in Alaska um there's a lot that goes into it you know i'll you know i'll admit that and and not every trip is smooth and a lot of times we'll get bumped off trips and and everything because of weather so um being flexible um having the right gear or being able to make what you have work is kind of the most important part to that um you know not to make it sound um it's not impossible it's it's far from impossible It's very doable for, you know, I'd say just about anybody. But, you know, having that knowledge and going out with, you know, with a lodger guide the first time is probably a good idea just to get some kind of grasp on what you're going to be experiencing. But, yeah.
Katie
How limited do you think someone would be if they stuck to only a car? Like if they came up there, either drove up there or they came up there and rented something, how much are they missing by being stuck to the road systems versus kind of having the flexibility of something like a float plane? Like, can they still get a pretty good experience? Or are you like, if you're coming to Alaska, you want to get, you know, this other experience?
Oliver
Well, I'd say that depends, you know. If you're looking to come to Alaska and catch salmon and catch trout and catch grayling, that seems to be high on people's bucket list is the Arctic grayling. And there's really big ones here. It is 100% doable by car. If you want to come up and rent a car and drive around and fish the road system stuff, there is an awesome road system. Road accessible rivers and streams and everything. lakes and um you know you can definitely get away with like a um you know with like an inflatable raft if you can do like lots of day floats and lots of different things um you know there's a lot of opportunity um from the road system so I guess it depends on what you're looking for is if you're looking for um to come to Alaska and catch fish you can it's 100 doable um by vehicle um and you know there's lots of run on cart things up here and um but if you're looking to go not see anybody for 10 days, you're probably going to want to go a little bit further out. And that's, you know, and that's as easy as coordinating a bush plane. And, you know, the pilots will kind of know, you know, it's up to you. It's up to the individual to pick which river you're on, you know, which river you want to go to. And, but if you ask, you know, a bush plane company in that area, I mean, that's the biggest part is finding one in that, you know, within, you know, that has reached to those rivers that you want to go to, you know, they'll know where you need to be picked up and the kind of gear. They can kind of give you some recommendations on the gear that you would want to bring. And a lot of them do raft rentals too. But definitely make sure you can at least row a raft if you want to come up and do a DIY farther out float.
Katie
How does somebody find a bush plane to go to where they want to go? Like say they've looked at a map or they've read articles online and picked a place they want to go. How do you get from that to like, I've got a plane to take me there? Is there like a service that coordinates all these bush planes? Are you just kind of like randomly reaching out to people, like the closest company you can find to that area? Like I would have no idea where to start.
Oliver
Yeah. You like, let's say you want to fly, you know, you're kind of looking at rivers around Bristol Bay. You know, you'd be looking in like, you know, you kind of Google, you know, bush plane, bush plane companies in like King Salmon. And then there's lots of companies in King Salmon that will that will take you out. And it's as easy as calling them and emailing them. Definitely you want to get on that pretty early in the year. They don't really, once they're full, they'll stop taking calls and stop taking emails. And you just, well, they'll just kind of ghost you. So, you know, you kind of got to have your plan together. Come January, February is like, you know, you kind of want to have your plan together and then make sure you get on their books because they do pick up pretty quick. But yeah, it's as easy as picking your river and then kind of finding the town with some substantial infrastructure around it, like Bethel or Dillingham or whatever. You kind of want to pick, you know, call like Google bush plane companies there, and then it should give you some list of companies that you can fly with.
Katie
Are there places that are too remote for a bush plane to take you to? Like, are you kind of like having to pick areas near some sort of settlement that has a bush plane company or, you know, like I have no idea how far a bush plane can, could like reasonably take you. So, um, are there like dead zones on the map that you like just won't find somebody to take you to?
Oliver
I haven't found any, um, maybe like, maybe like way Northwest, but even still there'll be some, there'll be something I'm sure. Um, and I, you know, honestly, I don't know how far a bush plane can realistically take yet. No, the cost just gets, you know, the cost can get pretty astronomical because they charge by hour or so. Um, you know, I think, you know, the farthest that we've kind of flown is like two hours one way. Um, and that's usually up to like, usually up to like the top of drainage and then we'll float down and then we'll end up being closer to, um, kind of where they'll, where they'll be able to come pick us up. Um, so yeah, as far as the reach of a bush plane, I mean, that probably depends on the kind of plane and everything. And, you know, yeah, as far as but I think I think most places are pretty accessible by plane, you know, which is which is good. You know, it lets people see.
Katie
When you get dropped off at the top of a drainage and like float down and get picked up somewhere else, are you just kind of coordinating with them ahead of time? Like this is our takeout point and this is the day that we expect to be there. And you just show up there and, you know, a plane shows up and picks you up. Is that how that works?
Oliver
Yeah, well, they'll usually tell us where, you know, where they can land a plane. And sometimes that involves us clearing a gravel bar, like kind of making a runway. So we'll kind of help that though, like, say, this is where we're going to pick you up on this gravel bar, because they've most likely flown over that river at some point in the year. And they said, you know, this gravel bar, you know, at this water level is okay for us to land, to land a cub on or land a Cessna or something. and then we will go down and make sure that that gravel bar doesn't have any roots or big rocks or anything that can damage the plane and then they can usually pick us up there sometimes it's a float plane depending on if they're picking us up in the lake or you know if the river's slow enough to land you know if it doesn't have a lot of current they can usually land a you know bush plane on area a float plane on it but yeah it kind of depends you kind of just got to roll with the punches. But they'll usually tell us where they can pick us up.
Katie
I know this is going to vary based on company and how far you're flying and everything, but what would be a typical cost that you are spending on a bush plane flight? I know you said you've flown up to about two hours. If you're personally booking a trip, what would be your average the cost of a single flight?
Oliver
Hmm. Man, you're usually averaging probably $1,500 per person, depending on... Yeah. And it can, you know, that goes cost. The cost of those trips, it adds up quickly, I'd say. But yeah, the flight itself, you know, anywhere from $700 to $1,500 to maybe $2,000, depending on how many people you have and how much stuff you have and how many flights you need. So it kind of depends. But I go average per person, you know, plan on spending $1,500. So, yeah.
Katie
So you're not doing weekend trips. This is like, you're probably going to turn this into a bigger excursion if you're going to book a bush plane.
Oliver
Yeah, usually a week to 10 days.
Katie
Okay. Yeah. Gotcha.
Oliver
Sometimes two weeks. Yeah. And that's, you know, we want to spend lots of time out there too. So that's a big part of that.
Katie
Of course. I mean, yeah, if you're going the whole way out there, you want to stay out there. You mentioned bears a little bit. You know, how much of a concern are bears up there and what are you doing for protection?
Oliver
I mean, bears are bears. You know, they're around. It's Alaska and there's lots of them. The biggest part is being smart and confident and hoping that you don't have a problem bear. And we've, you know, only had one false charge, you know, like false charge. And it was actually with my wife off the road system and Kodiak. And that was kind of eventful and scary. But otherwise, you're, yeah, I mean, I would definitely bring something, you know, I'd rather have a 44 and not use it. And, you know, then not have it, need it type of deal. Bear spray is all right. But I would definitely rather carry a pistol just for some peace of mind. You know, the fact of the matter is, is if a bear wants it, he's probably going to get you. And that's where your buddy's gun comes into play. So that would definitely make sure everybody has, you know, everybody's carrying just to carry. Get used to using it. Hopefully you don't need it and you shouldn't need it. And fishing game, if you shoot a bear that's not doing anything wrong or false charging you a fishing game, you'll be in some trouble. So definitely that's where the experience comes in is, you know, being able to read, kind of read the bear's behavior and read what they're doing and whether or not they're going to actually try to get you or not. So, yeah, that's why I said going with somebody that has some experience around the wild animals here is pretty important. So being able to kind of read those animals is real important. But, yeah, definitely bring a pistol.
Katie
Back to the fishing a little bit, but still touching on gear. What typical rod reel setup are you using? I know it's, it probably varies a little bit because you have such a wide variety of species, but, um, if you had like one kind of all around rod, is there a rod that can handle the whole spectrum of fish that you're targeting? Or do you kind of have to have a couple of different setups? And if so, what are they?
Oliver
You, the seven weight is kind of like the Alaska workhorse. So if you come up here with a couple of seven weights, um, you're going to be able to do most things. Um, and even depending on how proficient of an angler you are, you can land, you know, you can land a 30, 40 pound King on a seven weight, um, relatively quickly. Um, you know, it just kind of matter, you know, it just kind of matters. Yeah. I mean, I would say seven weight, if, if you need a rod for Alaska, seven weights, your seven weights, your game. Um, you know, if you're targeting smaller species, like a four, uh, for grayling and stuff was great too. Um, but yeah, primarily a seven, if you're, yeah, if you're going to run a, if you're going to run one rod a seven weight with a floating line. And you're, yeah, you're going to be all set. And then you don't have to spend a ton on a reel. Yeah, having a nice reel is great, but you know, you can get away with, you know, you get away with a Redington Behemoth, let's say, you know, it's just a hundred, you know, 110 bucks, you know, and it's going to be great. You know, you don't need anything else.
Katie
Is an eight weight just overpowered for some things or I'm just, I'm, I'm more just like surprised you didn't go with an eight weight. Cause I feel like most people I know would jump from a six weight to an eight weight and they skip the seven weight. Like I don't hear about the seven weight as very often. So the fact that you like pinpointed seven makes me think that there's something that is turning you off from eight. And I'm trying to figure out what that is.
Oliver
Just, I don't know. Um, I have a couple eights. Uh, I have lots of eight weights, I should say. And I don't really use them. Like I don't, they're fine, you know, and, but you can do most of the things that you need to do here with the seven. Um, and then catching, you know it still makes catching like an 18 you know 18 to 20 inch rainbow um you know it still makes it fun so um yeah like a seven is a good mix it's it's the right mix I think um interesting so yeah you can overline it with an eight weight rod if you want to you know if you want to or with an eight weight line you should say um you know if you want to throw some like bigger like little bit bigger streamers I know like the dalai lama is real popular like a real popular fly here um so you can kind of over line that if you want to but most lines I think these days kind of come about a line size heavy anyways so um yeah it's just seven weight with a seven weight floating line is is really all you'd need um and you can run beads you can run streamers you can fish mice you know you can kind of fish you know a little bit everything with that so yeah yeah it's yeah I mean I fish a six regularly too and I fish a five and I fish them all but um the eight I don't got much heavier than a seven. I don't know why, but you know, it's kind of been named the Alaska workhorse. So that's kind of, and it kind of holds true.
Katie
Fair enough. You mentioned a bunch of different techniques there, and I'm sure we could talk for like three days straight about all the different ways you can catch fish in Alaska, but just kind of like high level, what are kind of the common techniques you're using for the kind of the big categories of fish, you know, salmon, steelhead, rainbows, grayling, you know, what types of techniques might you be employing for these different species?
Oliver
Personally, um, I like swinging flies. Um, I like fishing two handers. I like, um, you know, I love fishing Skagit lines and Scandi lines and stuff. Um, so if I, if I had to pick, um, I would fish a two hander and swing flies. Um, but you know, running back to, you know, if you were to run, you know, say like a, like a two 50 grain, you know, short skagit head on your nine foot seven weight um you can swing flies you can fish mice you can fish you know you can do all these different things with that you know with that setup um it you you would be doing yourself a disservice to come up here and not bring beads um it's you'll catch fish without them um but because there's so these trout if you're trout fishing we'll say we'll stay with trout fishing um or i'll stay with trout fishing um you'd be doing yourself like they're so dependent on the eggs and um that source of protein that um you definitely want to bring a rod uh that's capable of throwing beads you know there's no two ways around it um yeah that's you know so definitely but like going back to seven weight you know you can do everything with it you can swing your flies you can throw beads with an with under an indicator you can throw you know dry flies um so yeah my personal preference is swinging flies but um yeah you kind of need to be able to do everything if you really want to maximize your your uh your experience here how much mousing do you do we do a lot of mousing a lot and it's very very fun
Katie
is that mostly for rainbows
Oliver
yeah and you can throw top water for dollies and stuff too. We’ll throw like, you know, pink walks and gurglers and stuff like bright orange gurglers for for dollies. And they're pretty, again, pretty opportunistic, like grayling, like they'll come up and hit stuff. And that's really, really, really awesome. But, yeah, we do a lot of mousing, particularly kind of I mean, you can mouse midday and watching those fish come up is epic. I mean, it's awesome. You know, noon, high sun, and you watch it, 24-inch rainbow, come up and grab a mouse. It's pretty epic. But, you know, fishing them at, you know, at dusk too is, it's a little bit more productive. You know, you get those bigger fish a little more comfortable. There's less shadows, less shadows in the river. So we kind of fish them, you know, fish a lot of mice at like dusk and stuff. But yeah, I spend the whole summer mousing, you know, until the bead drop and like, until it's really heavily bead season. which is like August. Yeah, I'm fishing mice.
Katie
What time is dusk for you that time of year?
Oliver
10, 11 o'clock at night.
Katie
And what time is dawn?
Oliver
Like 2 a.m.
Katie
Wow.
Oliver
Yeah, we'll fish all night. It doesn't really get dark. So kind of fish all night. Yeah, it's kind of fun. Everything looks like a bear at one o'clock in the morning. So shadowy, you know.
Katie
Out of curiosity, what is your schedule like these days in early November? Is it already dark for you at 4 o'clock PM?
Oliver
I'm just looking outside right now. No, it's, you know, dusky. It's getting there. Yeah, we're running out of light pretty quick.
Katie
I'm actually surprised it's not already night for you because we're getting dark here in Colorado at 5 something now. So I'm actually surprised that it's not like more of a difference. I'm sure as the season goes on, the difference increases. So it's kind of interesting that it's still light.
Oliver
Yeah. Yeah. We kind of line up, start lining up with your guys's time about November. And then after that, it's all just dark.
Katie
Is that tough to deal with in the winter? Do you do well or not well with so much nighttime?
Oliver
I think everybody gets a little down. I think that's pretty normal. But having an outlet for it is, is the biggest thing. So be, you know, knowing that you're going ice fishing or knowing that you're going snow machining or skiing or whatever you like to do in the winter. Um, having winter hobbies is important, is important. Um, staying, staying inside in the winter, um, it's tough to get out, you know, it's cold and dark. Um, but, uh, you got to get out. You have to go outside. Like you can't get around it. You got to go outside. You got to do stuff. Um, you got to find something you like to do, walk the dog, whatever it is. So if you have something that you like to do in the winter, you'll be okay. So take vitamin D. I feel that way even around here.
Katie
We don't even have that extreme night, but people who don't ski or snowshoe or something in the winter, that's just a lot of months to kind of be hunkered down. It's fun for a little bit to kind of hunker down and watch movies or whatever, but then eventually start to go stir crazy. And I'm always like in awe of the people who actually just do that for like four or five months straight before they thaw out and go back out in the summer again. And it just, it must be even more extreme for you up there that I'm sure a lot of people, like they probably do go a little bit stir crazy.
Oliver
Yeah, I think so. I mean, maybe the people that don't, maybe, you know, they like video games or something, you know, and that's totally, that's totally cool. You know, if that's what you like to do, then that keeps you busy. Great. But yeah, it's not for me. So I like to be outside.
Katie
Do you do any like fly tying or anything like that? That is kind of like what you can do, do when when it's dark and you're indoors but still kind of keeps you I don't know engaged or excited about getting back outside I tie a ridiculous amount of flies
Oliver
I probably tied two dozen flies today I just like that's I'm in kind of my end of October first week in November is kind of my like two-week hibernation where I'll kind of like decompress from because fall here is crazy it's like you have hunting season you have steelhead you have big rainbows like you're doing millions of different things trying we have a wood stove so i'm cutting wood and doing all these things and um but the last you know those that two week period is like i'm kind of hunkered down and like just kind of hanging out decompressing and getting ready for ice fishing everything and so I tie flies constantly I mean you know more of these two weeks than any other time of year but I still probably tie a dozen to two dozen flies a week and just kind of hang out and you know I love time flies. So that's kind of my, you know, afternoon activity. Yeah, I feel the same way.
Katie
We also have like a crazy hunting season that goes through kind of October, early November. And then, you know, ski season here doesn't pick up much until kind of mid-December or later. Like you can go, but it's not super worth it. And so there's a period of time in between where it's like, all I want to do is just like be home and finally like soak up being able to relax a little bit. It's kind of a needed like recharge time in like mid to late November. So I feel you there. I saw in your info ahead of time that you have kind of plans to get up to the Brooks range and do some fishing and hunting. Tell me about that. Like what, what opportunities are there for you up there that you're looking forward to?
Oliver
So we're kind of been tentatively planning a trip. We've gotten bumped off it, heading out toward like Ambler for, there's a really cool river up there that's got she fish in it. And that's not, that's, you know, I've caught a couple, I've caught a she fish kind of in town in Fairbanks, but I really have been trying to get to that river for a while. So we're going to push pretty hard next year. We got bumped off of weather two years ago or dumped off because of weather two years ago. But I think this next year, we're going to push pretty hard and kind of make that our target trip among the other things. And then on top of that trip, You know, there's lots of, you know, that's kind of where you can go catch some big dollies. There's like giant dollies. A lot of those are sloped dollies. And then there's dollies like that down here too, down near Anchorage, I should say. But, you know, those real big ones that aren't, you know, messed with are usually up there. So that's a favorite spot for us to go up there and target those big dollies. And then monster grayling. You know, you really have a good shot of getting a grayling over like 20 inches up there and they hit, you know, they'll hit a six inch streamer. They're ridiculous. And then on top of that, the hunting, you know, you're looking at if you're if you draw a muskox tag, there's muskox up there. There's a lot of caribou. There's, you know, you still get the moose and grizzly bears and everything. So there's lots of stuff to lots of stuff to do up there. So, you know, I try to get up there a couple of times a year. It's not as hasn't been as much since I moved from Fairbanks. I haven't been able to get up there as much, but I always do try to get up there every year because it's just I mean, it's crazy. Like you're floating down a river and you, you know, you look up, you're in a valley and the mountains just like come right to the riverside. And like you're just kind of watching like doll sheep as you're, you know, floating down this river and you're not really caring about what's in the water at that point. you're just like, wow, this place is insane.
Katie
That’s a good transition to, we're going to talk about, you did mention Ambler, and we talked beforehand about how this, you know, things are changing so fast, and what's being decided today or voted on today, like, might not be relevant in a little bit, especially when this episode comes out, but just in general, kind of the idea of keeping these places raw and wild, like you've described it, I know that's, like, near and dear to your heart, so I'd love to just give you an opening to talk about that, and, you know, generally just kind of keeping these places the way they currently are, because there's not that many left on earth that people get to go and enjoy that, that kind of like raw beauty.
Oliver
Yeah, I think, you know, I'll start by saying that I think most of us probably agree with some sort of progression. And, you know, we all understand the need for minerals and mines. And, you know, that's, that's important, too. But these, like you said I mean there's not many places like you know like these left and to take that away you're kind of removing like the heart of what Alaska is um and it's wild nature um and I think that's a just an insane disservice to to the state um you know I i think I think we need that still we need to know, even if people don't get to visit and go do these things, knowing that that still exists and that that opportunity is there, I think is just unbelievably important. Um, sorry. I think that that is just unbelievably important. Um, so yeah, Hey, it's, it's frustrating because you kind of walk that line, right. Of knowing that we need these minerals and where the mines and everything you know the proposed mines and mining areas but these places are two it's one of one-of-a-kind places and you can't we need that as as humans we need to know that there's wild you know wild places and be able to go visit those wild places um so destroying those for you know where we can potentially get these minerals from other other places I think is just it it doesn't make any sense um so yeah we we need these we need these areas and on top of that you know the the Alaska natives that rely on these areas you know they're a risk because you know the the dam or the mine tailings and and everything like you're you're looking at potentially destroying you know these like these runs of fish and changing the ph balances of the water and destroying these you know these these runs of fish that those Alaska native communities rely on so there's a lot of factors that play into why they shouldn't why these particular projects shouldn't happen um and I yeah I mean yeah I mean from somebody that loves these areas and has visited them visited them many times you know it would just be you know unbelievably you know it'd be terrible to see them destroyed by, you know, mining, you know, mining communities and roads and everything. I think they should be left alone and left to what they what they should be, you know, which is wild.
Katie
And like I said, this could potentially be out of date by the time this comes out. But what what currently are like what are the things on the table at the moment that are kind of the biggest threats?
Oliver
So there's like the ambler proposal. And I know that today or currently, not today, but currently, you know, that project was kind of set in motion. And so that's one of the projects. And that's a 211 mile road that crosses, you know, a ridiculous amount of streams and rivers and everything. And will affect a lot of different, you know, a lot of different fish runs and wildlife migration patterns and everything. um and then there's like the roadless rule um which kind of opens up the tongas national rainforest to um to logging um and you know so um and then there's like uh uh like this is sitting a road um and that's another road that um will cross a bunch of rivers and disrupt you know and that one's kind of important too because it kind of you know will disrupt you know or the king like king salmon are struggling um throughout the state um and that will disrupt those um that will disrupt those those you know the few remaining kings um that are you know trying to get uh trying to establish themselves back into these rivers so you know all the work that jod and limited and every all these different organizations that have done you know they're going to run into so many more issues trying to re-establish these populations um and then it just kind of adds like the need for a lot of protection and everything for these areas so it's it's kind of yeah I mean like they should just be left just just they should just be left alone you know so those are a couple other projects and obviously pebble mine you know is a big one that keeps popping up every every 10 years but I think we've done a pretty good job of squashing that one currently so um but yeah just keep fighting these you know these projects and if you care about an area definitely speak up you know um you know, don't just let it happen. Yeah. I'm bummed that we have to keep talking about this.
Katie
But I'm also simultaneously glad that people are talking about it. And I'm sure, I'm sure most of the people who listen to this show don't need to be convinced. But, you know, maybe talk to the people in your life who, who aren't super into the outdoors about the importance of it too. Cause like, you know, it's, it's obvious to us, you know, like what's a bad idea, but there's probably a lot of people out there who don't think about this on the regular because they're not deeply embedded in it. So I guess that would be like my call to action is like talk to your friends and family who aren't as passionate and get them to speak up as well. Because yeah, it would be pretty devastating to lose things like this that don't go back. Like you don't turn them from a parking lot or a road back into wilderness. Like that's not going to happen. It's a one-way street. So I appreciate the message on that. Where can people find you if they wanted to, you know, check out your social media or anything like that? You're welcome to plug anything you want before we get wrapped up?
Oliver
I have Instagram kind of on and off these days. But my Instagram is Oli A. It's O-L-L-E-Y-E-H. But I mean, social media is, if you don't look me up on social media, it's a great place to find out what's going on here in Alaska. I'm looking at Trout Unlimited Trout Unlimited Alaska's page. I'm not associated with Trout Unlimited anymore, but I really support what they're doing. So that's a great place. If you want more information, follow their page. They have a ton of information and they're constantly telling people what's going on and who you need to contact if you don't support these projects. So yeah, that's a great page to look up.
Katie
Awesome. Well, Oliver, thanks for doing this. I wish you the best of luck on your trips coming up for SheFish and whatever else you have coming up in the Brooks Range. But just thank you for taking the time to chat with me today.
Oliver
Thanks, Katie.
Katie
All right, that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. If you want to find all the other episodes as well as show notes, you can find those on fishuntamed.com. You'll also find the contact link there if you want to reach out to me. And you can also find me on Instagram at fishuntamed. If you want to support the show, you can give it a follow. on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcasting app. And if you'd like to leave a review, it would be greatly appreciated. But otherwise, thank you all again for listening. I'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. Take care, everybody.
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