Ep 15: Project Healing Waters, with Eddy Wittry
Eddy Wittry was, until recently, the Program Lead for the Denver chapter of Project Healing Waters, a non-profit dedicated to helping disabled veterans through fly fishing, fly tying, and rod building. This program benefits vets suffering from both physical and mental disabilities by transitioning them back into civilian life at their own pace, using the therapeutic qualities of time on the water casting a fly. Eddy has grown the Denver program dramatically in just a few short years, and hopes to continue increasing the number of volunteers and volunteer hours to make a positive impact on the veterans who have served our country.
Website: https://projecthealingwaters.org/
PHW Instagram: @phwff
PHW Denver Instagram: @phwff.denver
PHW Denver Facebook: /PHWFFDenver
-
Intro
You're listening to the Wild Initiative podcast network. Learn more and check out all the shows at thewildinitiative.com.
Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed podcast where we talk all things fishing, conservation, and the outdoors. Today on the show, I'm joined by Eddie Wittry with the Denver Program of Project Healing Waters. All right, welcome to episode number 15 of the Fish Untamed podcast. Today I'm joined by Eddie Wittry, who until recently was the program lead for the Denver chapter of Project Healing Waters. And for those who don't know, Project Healing Waters is an organization created to help disabled veterans when they return from service back into civilian life. I'm going to keep this section a little short and sweet today because I did find that Eddie did a much better job of conveying the mission of Project Healing Waters and how much of of a difference it's made in the lives of many veterans. So I'm gonna just kind of cut this off here and let Eddie take it away. So without further ado here is my chat with Eddie Wittry. Yeah so I usually just start off by asking a little bit about your background particularly as it relates to fishing and I guess in this case what what kind of drew you to this position?
Eddy
I quite frankly you know I'd spent so many years teaching my kids how to fish and Most years I'm on the water about 50 days. And so I'm a fish head. It's what I do. It's if I'm not fishing, I'm tying. And so for me, kind of what this was all about was my kids went to college and I was at the ISC show and I saw a booth and it said, hey, we help veterans. And so I walked over and listened to what they did. And quite frankly, it was introducing somebody to fishing is like being on the sticks and having somebody in the front of the boat and trying to get them to load a rod, right? And it was something that was really natural to me. And so what drew me was, is that I had capacity since my kids were spending all my money at universities.
Katie
So it sounds like you transitioned from teaching them to trying to find a new helpful outlet for your desire to introduce more people to fishing?
Eddy
Right, just to share. You know, people who are fundamentally drawn to fishing have a degree of optimism, right? I mean, what really defines fishers, I think, is what could happen this next cast and what could happen with a drift a little bit farther over, what could happen. It's sort of that intellectual curiosity crossed with a real humility that you're trying to fit into a fish's world. As you know, they can trick us a lot. For something that has the brain half the size of a pea, it's a little bit intimidating to think that we can't always win. I think in this world, we always want to be at cause. think that when you fish you're you're neither at cause nor are you at effect your job is to fit in and I I find that really really appealing
Katie
So was this you said you came across a booth and I assumed this was for Project healing waters and did you just get to talking with them and and say like hey, I want to this is something I want to do I want to volunteer
Eddy
I did. I just signed up and then I had a buddy of mine with me and I his kids were the same age and they were off at college and I said Randy you're signing up for this and I signed him up.
Katie
That's awesome. Do you want to give a quick elevator pitch about Project Healing Waters and then we can jump into some of the finer details of it?
Eddy
Sure Project Healing Waters is a real unique rehabilitation program and anybody that has a VA rating of any percent for any reason qualifies and as a participant which is what we call the men and women in the program, they get, at no cost to them, they can learn how to fish, go on all kinds of trips. We did 50 trips last year and 25 were in the state and 25 were not, and they stretched from Alaska down to Belize.
Katie
And this was something that you had written down, but I wanted to clarify, is this just for the Denver chapter that those numbers come from, or is this many chapters?
Eddy
No, no, just Denver. There's four or five chapters in the state and there's about 100, about 200 nationwide.
Katie
Okay, so and you are the, you started as a volunteer but now you are the program lead for Denver?
Eddy
I happily, this year found a new program lead.
Katie
Oh nice.
Eddy
I've been involved with the program for eight years and it's Stephanie Harridge and she's a super capable young, hardworking, just the right fit for doing this kind of work. And she's now the program lead. It turned it over at the end of the summer.
Katie
Okay, I bet that'll take a little bit off your plate then to kind of open it up.
Eddy
About 25 hours a week. So it's inconceivable to most people that to pull the Denver program off, it's more than 10,000 volunteers.
Katie
Wow, and that's across how many volunteers?
Eddy
That's a great question. On the rolls, there's probably 300 who are pretty active. There's probably a core of about 50 that are super active. But in between, there's different avenues, right? There's outings or fishing trips, right? There's rod building. There's fly tying, and then there's casting and rigging, right, so really learning techniques and reading bugs. So the program runs year round. So all winter we're building rods and tying flies, and then spring, summer, and fall we're in the water.
Katie
And is there any specific qualifications you need to become a volunteer or just an interest in helping people? Do you need to have a certain fishing ability or anything like that?
Eddy
Yeah, there's probably-- if you listed off the qualifications, one is you have to have a genuine desire to make a difference or to help. You have to be able to untie a rat's nest. You have to be able to get a fly out of a tree, and you have to have a real desire to net a fish. And if you can do those things, you're qualified.
Katie
OK.
Eddy
And quite frankly, what most people think in their first conversations, they believe that they have to have guide capability. And they don't, right? That's not- that's what it is. We have a one-to-one ratio on moving water. So you're literally working-- even if it's a group trip, you're gonna be working all day with a participant, usually with a second rod. So as you're trying to, you're seining and trying to figure out the bugs and trying to dial in, right, you're moving between rods. Or if it gets stuck in a tree, which happens a fair amount with new fishers. And what you really, and a one-on-one situation, and somebody in one day on the water learns as much if they were on five days on the water, right? Because you have somebody right there with you.
Katie
Now do the veterans get paired up with somebody at random or do they get to choose their quote unquote mentor guide? Does it depend on whether they fished before? Can you get somebody who maybe has already fly fished and they want someone who actually does have more guide capabilities to teach them more skills?
Eddy
Yeah, well I would say that it's not as premeditated as that, what happens is that, and I won't go into the planning process, but there's tons of hours that go on to really setting up the day or the weekend or whatever the trip is, the logistics. And then you have a pre-trip meeting and everybody talks about sort of the abilities before you ever get on the water, before you leave on the trip. And then there's a natural pairing up of people that are really good working with newer fishers or gender-wise also pair. Like absolutely have women fishing with women, men fishing with men. I mean we absolutely cross over but we just try to our whole just the whole motive and the whole aim is to make people comfortable.
Katie
Right. So do you want to talk a little bit about kind of the benefits that a vet would get from a program like this and maybe also talk about what goes into a typical trip like from start to finish and then maybe follow that up with some of the benefits that you see from these trips and where they get them.
Eddy
Well, because I think most people listening would rather get to the benefits right away. I'll give you the benefits and I'll tell you how we get there. Okay. So, the absolute fact is that when you're on the water and you're doing one cast, one drift, right, one fish right now, what happens to you is you get into present time. And if you think about present time and the concept of present time, in those moments, nothing else matters, right? The past doesn't matter. If you're overcoming an injury, the injury doesn't matter because it's this opportunity to be at present time. And if you think about, you know, the different world religions and the different things that they do to get into present time because it's a very spiritual place. Now, it happens on a river and it's beautiful and that helps a ton. But the absolute fact is, is the more that I put you in present time and the more that I the past becomes less of an issue trip after trip after trip and that's what happens. There's you know, we have a lot of traumatic brain injury. We have a lot of you know, you can look at most people that have a disability rating and you would never know. You would you would never know. You would never know that their back has third-degree burns on it. You'd never know that they have titanium in their skeleton. You'd there's all these things you'd never know. But the absolute level of violence that exists today in war and daily and no Letting up in places like Afghanistan and Iraq it it gets It really takes a hold the past takes a hold of the present and so when you fish or rod bill or Tie flies it gets you in present time and then you're you're in the company And of a bunch of people that have a similar experience, right? Because if you consider you have a combat veteran who's on the battlefield when then he wakes up in a medical hospital Their whole life changes so dramatically and then they get pushed into the civilian world Where they never thought they'd be at that moment and so being in the community of people that have their same sense of humor, which is very unique and and in that same shared experience they get right back to the comfort of that.
Katie
Yeah, I'm sure that you know, I've heard from vets that you know, it can be a little jarring to be so close to a group of people that's not your family and then to be taken away I mean, it's it's almost the equivalent of being taken away from a family that you've spent you know possibly years with so I'm sure this is a good way to kind of recreate that back in the civilian world, hopefully in a in a better environment now they can maintain these relationships without all the hardships of war. So I'm sure the social aspect must be just as big as fishing or even the focus on a single activity, just having that social bond with people who've been there before.
Eddy
Yeah, and I would tell you, I don't know that it would be better, and I'm not being critical, but I'm just saying most, if you ask them, "Would you rather be back where you were before you got injured or medically retired, almost to a person, they would say yes. And so I think in the civilian world, we have this feeling that, oh, gosh, now you're with all those people and you don't have the threat. In their world, right, the ability to support and to save lives of one another is such is such significant work and really fulfilling in ways that are really tough for civilians to understand. I think it's a great comfort, but most, if asked, would say, "Gosh, I wish that wouldn't happen and I could have finished my tour or I could have finished my career."
Katie
That's a good point. I'm sure that's probably what forms those bonds in the first place, too, is being in that environment together and going through those things together.
Eddy
We have great, I'll just say one thing, we have great, great volunteers that are absolute 100% civilians and have no military background at all. It's not that you have to be in the military to serve the military. It's not that you have to be a part of a group to serve a group. Because we have fabulous volunteers that have had not one day of military training.
Katie
So how much do you think the actual fishing matters compared to like you said focusing on a single goal? Because I think that's why a lot of people get into fishing is you know even if you're just stressed from work you know you can go out after work and suddenly all that matters is that one drift and keeping an eye on that fly. So that of course translates well to if you're trying to get over anything any sort of you know stress in your life having that single focus for even just a couple hours can be really helpful. think is related to that versus just the I feel like inherently calming nature of being on a river and you know being in nature where it's quiet and calm like do you think the the fact that it's fishing plays much of a role or do you think it's the the single-mindedness of it while you're there?
Eddy
I think it's fishing right I think it's I think it's the the hyper focus on the activity in a beautiful place.
Katie
Okay.
Eddy
Right I mean we we carp fish a lot too over the last couple of years we've really moved into a lot of a lot of warm water. I mean we have a great great real supporter of the program who gets us on some wicked, wicked water and hygiene. You know on 243 as you're going towards Longmont, I mean you're going towards Lions I should say, there's a great lake system in there with some of the most beautiful bass you've ever seen, big bass And we do a ton of water work on, you know, with bass. We we carp fish a whole bunch and we saltwater fish and we and we cold water fish. So I think I think, you know, on a trip when everybody puts their gear up and hangs their waders up and sits and talks, I mean, that's a really special time. And you can't really recreate that in any other place. There's something about being away from home and being away from the work of home and being a good spouse or being a good parent or whatever and just being that has that has giant role so the camaraderie plays a huge role but the fact that fishing mostly happens in beautiful places it it certainly is a bonus
Katie
Right, definitely doesn't hurt to be in a beautiful mountain setting. So do do the vets get to choose where they go on these trips because it sounds like you do some pretty exotic trips too
Eddy
yeah well a couple of things. um A guy named Dale Hartman does a fantastic job setting up the calendar for the year. I'm a water booker, so I'm constantly on the search for new water. One of the ways that people say, "How can I help? How can I help?" If you have a piece of water that you're really adept with, that's a great way to be one of the sponsors of a trip. If you have private water, that's a great way to get involved. What happens is we build a trip calendar and 45 days out before a trip we put out an invite to everybody on the membership. We say, "Hey, these are the characteristics of this water in this trip and this is the skill ability." Most every trip just about anybody could go on. Some of them are high altitude and some of them are more difficult. We call them big rod trips, saltwater trips. You have to get some saltwater training and pass to be at a competent level to be able to double haul in the wind, which is kind of hard to recreate, but certainly the skills of double hauling to be able to head out. There's a few trips that are limiting, but most trips are good for anglers of any ability, and we set them up that way. Really our big first thing is how do I get you on the water the first time? Because we'll invite people to join us five, six times, and they won't join. And our number one competition is the couch, right? If you have physical challenge or you have some emotional challenges and you don't like crowds, you don't like this, or do I really want to do it? And having only been a man, I can only speak for being male, but men don't very much like to start into something where they think they're going to look stupid. I mean, let's just call it like it is. And so we do all kinds of things to make somebody comfortable and put them on water. That's why we love warm water so much, right? I mean, bluegills are the gateway drug to fly fishing.
Katie
Oh yeah.
Eddy
I mean, you catch 30 or 40 bluegills, I don't care how big, rough, tough marine you might be, you get a big smile on your face and it's hard to get it off. And so we do different things to get, to show people that it's doable and that it's not elite and it's not, 'cause you know, it carries a lot of, I mean, we have some, every kind of military, foreign military in the world, but we have a lot of badasses, right? And the thought of fly fishing, are you kidding? That's for a bunch of wimps. And so just getting somebody on the water the first time to feel the electricity that comes from a fish up through monofilament and into a fly line, you can't describe it, right? Right. But once you have experienced it, it's amazing how the roughest, toughest people wanna put the rubber pants back on, that's one of my guys called the rubber pants and the rubber boots, and get out there and try it again. And that's the fun of it, right? We try to make it so it's really approachable.
Katie
Yeah, I'm sure the warm water helps not only because, know like you said bluegill are just a ton of fun to catch but it probably I know I feel like most people have have gone fishing at least you know once in their life not fly fishing necessarily but you know most kids have thrown a spin rod out somewhere and there's a good chance it was for something like bass or bluegill whereas I could see that you know hearing that you're going trout fishing for the first time could be a little overwhelming if you've never gone trout fishing before which is you know very likely a kid may have never gone fly fishing but those those those vets may have fished for bass or bluegill even if it was years ago and on a spin rod that's at least something they can connect with and say like oh I remember having a good time doing that.
Eddy
Absolutely and and for a volunteer and somebody's been doing it for many many years there's five words that that keep you coming back and it's this program saved my life and it you know it looks like fishing and it smells like fishing and it kind of walks like fishing But it's really an incredible form of rehabilitation
Katie
So let's jump back and talk about what goes into a trip, you know start to finish What does a trip look like? how long does it last? What are the day-to-day activities? Everything about a trip.
Eddy
Yeah, so An invite goes out and people sign up and every trip is staffed by you know the volunteers sign up and then the participants or the veterans sign up and And on every trip, we try to take 50% of the vets on that trip who've never been on the water before, been on a trip with us at least before, and then 50% who have. And so that's how we keep mixing new people in.
Katie
And roughly how many people go on a trip? How many vets?
Eddy
Our trips span from four people to 20 people.
Katie
Okay.
Eddy
Like we'll go to Crystal Lake, and TU always helps us, and we have a whole bunch of people, or we'll go to Rainbow Falls, so great sort of entry waters, you know, where there are fish, or bass trips or big trips. But I would say a standard trip's probably four to six participants and four to six volunteers. When we're floating rivers, it's a one to two, right? So you might have two volunteers, right? And four participants. It just sort of matters. The reason we believe in pairing up one to one is it's just for safety, right? As a guy that's done a fair amount of guiding, one to two running between two rods, you can help, but you really, when somebody is a person who could potentially be at risk, could faint, fall face forward in the water, one to one is the right way, and it's also the right way for somebody new to really keep switching rods out and get that one out of the tree, they continue fishing or whatever it might be.
Katie
Right.
Eddy
Okay, so then- Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't chronologically. So 45 days out, invite goes out, about a week later, people are chosen. So if it's a trip for four participants, four participants are chosen and two standbys are chosen, alternates, and then they set up a pre-trip meeting. They talk about the trip. they see what gear people need. You don't have to have rods or you don't have to have anything. Even if they need waders, we supply all that. Then we set up and agree on the sort of rally point where we're gonna meet at what time and where, whether it's the Cabela's lot up North or it's up 285, you know, at a park and ride or the lots outside of Morrison. And then we meet up and we all jump in cars. The volunteers typically drive. If a vet really needs to drive, we've got guys that have been in the backseat of Humvees that have done four flips in the air and somebody else was driving and it doesn't make them super comfortable having other people drive. So it's not any heavy handedness. If somebody wants to drive, God love them, let them drive. And so then we drive to the place. If it's a place we're staying, of course, unloading luggage and that sort of thing. So with that day trip, we'll go to the water, sort of get set up, if it's float tubes, you know, whatever it might be. And then we fish, break for lunch. On warm water trips, it's fun to have a barbecue. There's something about having a hot hamburger at Bass Lake. It just feels real fun, or veggie burger. And then fish through the afternoon and then load up and come back on a day trip, On a multi-day trip, we're out of town, so we'll have to secure licenses in advance. And if we're out of state, stay at places, get up, fish the next day. We rarely fish more than three days in a row, usually two. So a drive-out day, two days on the water, and a drive-back day.
Katie
And then you mentioned this before, I think. And I assume this happens mostly on the multi-day trips. But I assume there's- whether you're actually staying- I don't know where you guys stay, but whether it's an actual campfire or the equivalent of a campfire where everyone can sit around and talk, I assume there's a lot of just talking about either their prior experiences as a member of the military or just about their day on the water.
Eddy
Yeah, absolutely. And you know what's also kind of fun is that people in the military love to rib each other. Right, they love, oh. And so, you know, the Army guys are picking on the Marines for using crayons to write their name. And the Army guys are picking on the Navy guys for being wimps. And the Air Force guys for never getting dirty. And they go back and forth. And it's all in good fun. And it's what they did when they were in active duty. Right? And so those times in the evening are really special. And we don't camp much. We pretty much have- there's a lot of lodge owners that let us stay for free. We try to, in every market, employ a guide. So at least one of the people on the trip is really familiar with the water. But then everyone else is volunteer. And we provide all the food. We cover all gas for our volunteers. And so the whole objective, I mean, it's amazing how we run that many trips and that many places for as little money as we spend.
Katie
And so you're entirely, you guys don't make any money. You said that everybody in it is a volunteer.
Eddy
Yeah, in fact, the only paid positions with Project Healing Waters are at the headquarters and it's about 10 people and they administrate almost 200 programs. So it's a monstrous volunteer effort.
Katie
Okay. Now, where do you, do you just raise money through like fundraisers or?
Eddy
All kinds of different ways. We do fundraisers. We have one big, big fundraiser we do with Mountain States Lumber and Building Materials Dealers Association. They're fantastic. They provide the lion's share of our operating budget. but I mean just today, there's a business every year that gives us $5,000, a business person. Writes a check every December for $5,000. But you know, $300 in our program totally funds a veteran for a year on the water.
Katie
Oh wow, okay. That's less than I thought it would take.
Eddy
Yeah, and for in-state trips, you know, we're pretty good at raising money And so we try to have some pretty sexy trips. And again, to get more people off the couch. Some of you say, I'd love to go to Alaska. I'd love to fish Pyramid Lake. We had at Pyramid Lake-- and I'm not going to get my numbers exactly right- but I know that we had four fish over 15 pounds, four cutthroats. And I know that we had like 20 something over 20 inches. So having those kind of headliner trips is a great way for somebody to say, man, I want to go there. Right? Right. And we go to Montana a bunch. We go to Wyoming a bunch. We go to New Mexico. We went down to Galveston and did Redfish this year. We went to Belize for a week. Unbelievable. And this was our first year actually to do a casting blast. were out of Thermopolis we actually had a fishing and duck hunting trip.
Katie
Oh that sounds fun.
Eddy
Yeah, good way to get your feathers.
Katie
Right, for the fly tying session. Do you want to talk about that real quick because it's not just fishing. You mentioned that they do ride building and also fly tying and I assume those are also you know for people who are interested in in those things.
Eddy
Right.
Katie
But how do those trips go?
Eddy
Yeah we do beginning fly tying. We give somebody the basic skills, you know, it goes in a good beginning flight time class, you get about 85% of the skills, you talk about 85% of the bugs, right? And then in the intermediate class, we have different guest tires, right? So if somebody says, how can I help? Well, you can come and be a guest tire. If you have some flies of some notoriety, you know, we'd love to have and we've had some phenomenal guest tires. But those classes run all winter, they start usually about September, and they'll run to the spring and then rod building we built over 60 rods last year and again it's no cost so you build your own rod as a participant you fish with it I mean it's a lot of fun to tie flies and catch your first fish on your own flies but it sure is a lot of fun to have it in a rod that you built as well.
Katie
I just finished building my first rod and I haven't gotten to fish it yet but I'm I'm itching to and I I agree I think I'll feel more satisfaction using my own rod than my own fly. I think just the amount of time that you put into it I think you just feel that connection. So I'm sure that's also a positive impact not to take away from fly tying but you can tie you know two dozen flies at a time. I'm sure that there's there's a very rewarding feeling for somebody who's who's come I assume to multiple sessions and put time into that rod to then take it and catch a fish.
Eddy
Actually it's really worth talking about. First off the fly tongues have been run for over ten years by a guy named Ralph Rhodes and he's tireless and selfless and putting together all those kits for each class right so you put together ten kits with all the materials all the hooks everything somebody needs to be able to go after the class and tie their dozen you can tie over a hundred flies all covered by the program and when somebody completes all the classes we actually give them the vise
Katie
oh that's cool
Eddy
Yeah, and so, but in rod building, it's also pretty amazing. We have both nationally, we have national winners as beginners in rod building and fly tying, because we have really great instructors. Pat Higgins is a professional rod builder, has worked a ton with Cerebella and a bunch of other companies. Cerebella is always good to us. They always provide volunteers. JP's always there. And what they do is build a rod in three classes.
Katie
Oh, okay.
Eddy
Yeah, and Pat really knows how, you know, rod building classes were traditionally six or eight weeks. And that's it's hard to keep somebody's interest. Pat teaches the basics in class one, you know, in class two, you're wrapping and then class three, you're gluing. And it's all of a sudden, in three weeks, you've got your own rod. And again, all covered by the program. And it's, it's a it's an amazing experience. And when somebody completes a rod, we also give them a real and we give them line, because giving somebody a rod is sort of giving somebody a bicycle without tires, you know,
Katie
just giving them something else to buy.
Eddy
Right. And so literally from that class, they have their own rod at their own time. Good goes back to bluegills to chase bluegills.
Katie
You know that's a good point though because I did find myself when I was doing mine it was hard to pull myself away from it and there were times where I hit a step where I had to wait you know I had to wait for the glue to dry or wait for something to happen and I was like itching for it to finish up so I could move on to the next step so I could I could see that doing it in just three sessions might be more appealing than having to wait months for it to actually finish.
Eddy
It is.
Katie
What are some of the actually there's something else I want to get to first. Do you notice that people get more, I don't know if I want to say emotional or mental benefits from the program or do you also see physical benefits? Because I assume there's a wide range of disabilities, anything from a physical disability to PTSD and I think the emotional benefits are pretty obvious but fly fishing is also physical activity.
Eddy
Yeah, I would tell you that the CEO of the program is a guy named Todd deGrosier and he's a colonel, Marine Corps is medically retired, real significant injuries, especially traumatic brain injuries. And he used to spend hours in these rehab classes, putting bolts together and getting his, his, his motor skills back and he, he had really bad vertigo. And he had to learn how to play the guitar. There was all these occupational therapy kind of things. And then as he was introduced by the program, his counselor said, I want you to go fishing. And he was like, Could you please write a note for my wife so she knows I'm telling the truth.
Katie
Prescription for fishing.
Eddy
Yeah, but but for hand I for balance for coordination. There's actually a ton of physical benefits Especially brain injuries are so difficult to come back from and so frustrating and It's a fantastic way to do it
Katie
Do you wanna talk a bit I've got a list of things that you wanted to mention and one of the things is that you you never ask Veterans about their disability unless they choose to bring it up. So you just want to talk about that a little bit?
Eddy
You bet. We have a really neat way to sign up somebody connecting with the program on a cell phone through an API Where I'll be out someplace. Let's just say I'm at a biker ball just as perhaps and And I see it a veteran or I see a marine hat or I see and I'll walk up and I say hey "Have you heard about Project Healing Waters?" And they'll say, "No." And say, "Well, if you know anybody "that has any disability rating to any percent, "they can come and fish with us for free." And we have trips from Alaska to Belize and you don't have to know a thing. And we ask through people. And then that person will often say, "Well, I've got a rating." And I'd say, "Well, here." And I take my phone out and I put in 42828. And I type in PHWFF and I hit send and it says, please give me your email and I hand my phone over and they enter their email and now they're immediately connected. They see all of our correspondence. They see all of our invites. They see all of our programming. And so on the sidelines, they can see if they like this program or not. Right, at the show, right? I know at the ISC we signed up over a hundred people. I know at the fly fishing show we signed up about that many. And we just take the friction out, literally as on a cell phone. You're texting to a phone number, a shortened phone number, 42828. And then you put in PHWFF as the text, you send it out, it immediately says, welcome to Project Healing Waters, give me your address, we'll get you on the email list. And by doing it in that way without friction, right, and without coming up to somebody and say, do you have a disability rating, right? It's just not a very polite way to do it. But when you ask group people, or no, I don't, but I say, well, here, let me get you on the mailing list so you can refer them to us. And it's funny how many guys sign up their buddies and their buddies sign up them. We were at a pre-trip meeting and when it's somebody's first trip, we say, how'd you find out about us? And he said, well, Joe signed me up. And then I said, "Well, Joe, how'd you find out about us?" He said, "Well, Eric signed me up." So a lot of times guys joking with each other will sign each other up, or sometimes seriously really want them to enjoy. It's a benefit, right? We have a great debt to the people who have served us to do our very best to help them in civilian life. And gosh, I have people say, gosh, I only have 10% hearing loss. I have 10% rating, it's for hearing loss. I really shouldn't fish with you. And I say, you should absolutely fish with us. And they say, why? And I said, because you'll be in the company of other people that would really benefit from knowing you. I can afford to fish. And I don't need it for free. And I was a real successful investment banker. And I'm retired. I shouldn't sign up. And I say, yes, you should. because you could be a great mentor to somebody who's making their way into the civilian world.
Katie
So do you find that people, um, I'm sure this is, uh, this varies, I'm sure, but do you find that people come on a couple trips and, um, I don't want to say are, are healed after that because I think that would be not doing it justice, but, but find that they have gained the benefit that they want and are ready to move on. Or do you find that people come back for years and years and turn it more into a lifestyle that they continue with permanently?
Eddy
I'd say it's about half and half. I would say half the people really get involved with the program and we see them for years. The other half really fall in love with fishing and they go all the time on their own and they form all these friendships and they fish as much, well way more off of our trips than on our trips, with new friends that they have in the program. Somebody said to me once, I've been around a lot of volunteer organizations and I've never found so many quality volunteers that really want to help. I think that that's what surprises people, what surprises people especially in the military. There's so many civilians that really want to truly share this experience with them and have them catch the disease of wanting to be on the water all the time. And liking to look at rod racks on cars and that that shared experience. And, you know, we don't make it overly like mysterious or gosh, we're, I mean, not a one of the volunteers is tasked with healing anybody, right or rehabbing anybody. They're tasked with having a safe comfortable fun trip. That's pretty fun volunteerism.
Katie
I think you made a good point that it kind of has to be a very selfless group of people just because comparing it to some of the other fly fishing or fish related non-profits, let's just say Trout Unlimited, obviously I have no problems with Trout Unlimited, but you could be getting into that kind of for a selfish reason. I like fishing, I really want to have better water to go fishing in and more fish to catch. But in this case, if you're volunteering, you're not improving the fish stocks for your own good. If you volunteer, you kind of have to have 100% focus on helping somebody else. There's really no, I don't want to say no benefit for you because I'm sure that the volunteers do get a very high level of satisfaction out of helping people and I'm sure they make lasting relationships. But it doesn't come from a place of wanting to improve anything for their own lives. It comes from a place of wanting to improve other people's lives.
Eddy
I agree with everything you said. Everybody's, and I can say, I hate absolutes, but I would tell you that everybody who gets involved has a genuine desire to make somebody's life better. And fishing is just a vehicle. That's all fishing is, is just a vehicle to do that. What I'd say in the same thing is I think a lot of people are surprised that they meet a lot of really great people, right? That are volunteers once they get to know each other and they've never known each other before. They're headed up to Montana together, they're doing all kinds of things. And so I think it's the quality about giving a shit about somebody else. And I say that in a harsh way. But the reason I do is it's across everybody of you volunteers, they really give a darn, right? They really and when you're around those kind of people, right? You know, when you're working on a stream improvement, and you're cleaning up the stream or doing this or that, or, and TU is really good to us, by the way, I mean, David and those guys are great to us. It, you know, to your point, you're kind of doing it to make it better kind of for yourself and but you're still around a bunch of people that are trying to make something better. I think the difference is when you're in a group of people who have a common love of fishing, but they really want to make something better for somebody else. It's unusual. And I would tell you that for the first five years I volunteered on the program, I went on one trip, my work, almost exclusively, was foundational around org dynamics and how to make it grow and scale. It's not all about being on the water either. If somebody's especially good at Salesforce, gosh, we always need people in that. If somebody's especially good at events, if somebody likes logistics, we have somebody that maintains our storage locker. She has a perfect inventory. keeps track of the rides coming in and out. We have AEDs, high-value equipment. We have water-activated PFDs that are checked in and out. That's a logistics job, right? That's not a sexy going on the Green River around Siskiyou, right? It's the work of the work. When all those people come together and bring a set of gifts that they can share and that they can actually do the work around, there's just a lot to be done.
Katie
Have you had any vets come back to volunteer after being in the program?
Eddy
Tons. What our encouragement is fish with us for a year. Because I have vets that come in day one and say I want to just be a volunteer and I go look enjoy the program, fish with us for a year, be among your your peers and figure out what makes a good trip and a bad trip, right? And then you'll be a much better volunteer.
Katie
Yeah, that's a good point. I'm sure it's kind of a win-win. It benefits them in that they get to enjoy the program without, you know, the, the stress of volunteering for a year, but also I'm sure that that makes them more valuable to the next person that they're going to go help.
Eddy
Absolutely.
Katie
Have you, um, has, has Project Healing Waters ever thought of, and I just thought of this because you had mentioned earlier that a lot of the vets do kind of feel a little bummed is not you know probably the right word but they feel like they didn't finish what they started you know they went into the military and now they're back in civilian life and that's not where they had wanted to be. Has Project Healing Waters thought about ever incorporating a volunteer aspect similar to Trout Unlimited let's say like stream restoration where it would give the opportunity to feel like they're giving back. Because I'm sure, like you said, people have wanted to come in and volunteer right away. And I'm sure that comes from a place of wanting to continue what they started and helping people. Has there been any thought of providing that as an option where maybe you already know how to fish and now you want to feel more like you're giving back instead of feeling like you are taking up someone else's spot on a fishing trip, but maybe you could go on stream restoration or something else that's still related to fishing but you can still kind of have the satisfaction of feeling like you gave back.
Eddy
Yes and no. Yes in that we have volunteer opportunities among the waters that we fish to help landowners sometimes or to we have volunteer things that we'll put out an invite for and say, "Hey, would you like to do this or that?" And we absolutely do that. But the 501(c)(3) is super focused on what we do, right? And so, and there's, without getting overly wordy on it, when you stay in your lane and you do really, really good work at what you're really tasked to do, you generally do a better job.
Katie
Sure, yep.
Eddy
And so we try to stay in our lane. We have a lot of referring agencies to get people free wheelchairs, to get, I mean, we can be an outlet for a lot of things, but we really try to stay in our lane in terms of what we deploy person power against. But it's not to say that we haven't, and we have. I mean, we've even had different times seasonal opportunities. Colorado Native came to us and said, "Hey, we've got this, we're running this production line, and they're great guys, they're great supporters of the program and course guys." And we said, "We've got a great paying job. That's a couple of shifts over these three or four days, where we could take 10-15 people, cleared it through the national organization, because it's off strategy for us, but it was a real fair living wage and they had a great time. They said some of the hardest workers they've ever had on the line. Guys got picked up a little holiday money. It happened right around the holidays. And so, but in general, we pretty much stay in our lane. We'll make people aware of things, but you know, being good at, it's like great startups when a startup super focused on what they exist for and what they're out to do, they're far more successful than really creeping out into a lot of different areas.
Katie
Yeah and that makes sense too. I mean with there are a lot of other opportunities you know you know if someone could go to Trial Unlimited if they if they want to be more on the volunteer side but I just wasn't sure if any of the vets had expressed an interest because you had mentioned that they sometimes you know don't don't feel like they should be in the program and it sometimes seems like maybe they want to feel like they're helping more but but you make a good point that you know if you want to do it well.
Eddy
You're absolutely right. I mean the common thread among 95% of all vets is they want to give back to a program that's given to them. So you're spot-on. But we have we have enough to do within ours. We can give them stuff to do.
Katie
Do you just want to kind of end by talking about how either if you're if you're a vet or if you're somebody who wants to volunteer what the what the of steps are to get involved in what you can kind of expect along the way of the process?
Eddy
You bet. First thing I'd love to say is thank you. When you gave, when you dropped me a note and said, "Hey, can you come on and talk to us about this?" I'm really, really, really dedicated to this program and the good that it does. And so it's people like you that really help us with awareness, right? Our biggest challenge isn't money, right? it's enough awareness that we can get as, the program has grown from a roles about seven or eight years ago, about 50, and our mailing list today has 1500 names on it.
Katie
That's incredible.
Eddy
So, and it's through some scaling things. And so the very first thing I wanna say is thank you for giving us this time. And I'll tell you how easy it is to sign up. As either a vet or a volunteer, or just somebody that wants to know more about the program, take out your cell phone and the telephone part you put in 42828 that's 42828 and when you do that and then in the message area what you're gonna text you put in PHWFF stands for Project Healing Waters Fly Fishing PHWFF you hit send and it'll ask you for your email emails are never shared we have a constant contact database we really covet it and care for it you can unsubscribe at any time start to read on the sidelines kind of about what we do. And where we need help, right? Is anything that somebody wants to do in the organization. And then from a general public standpoint, we have all kinds of people that run their own fundraisers for us right? The ski train. Every spring, there's a group of guys that do a great job on that. We've, we've got the big event around Veterans Day. We've got people that do donations. We have people that say I want you to fish on my my ground. And so anybody that really has any desire to help, there's a way to get involved and to help.
Katie
Okay so that's pretty pretty open. You don't need to have a specific you know very fly-fishing focused skill set. You could just basically have a desire to to help and there'll be a spot for you if that's the case.
Eddy
I'd say over half the people that join us have never cast a fly rod.
Katie
Oh wow, I wouldn't have guessed that.
Eddy
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, they're curious about it or the VA, we're really, really highly regarded by the VA as an effective, efficacious method and so there's murmurings about us And you know, it's a daunting sport, right? If you don't have a mentor in fly fishing, there's very few weirdos like me that just wanted to learn and flogged around. And I remember years ago, I used to bring a 12 pack of beer to my local fly shop an hour before close on Friday nights when nobody was there. And I had my Whitlock book and I learned all my bugs, right? And I learned them by the currency was beer and nobody was in the shop. And I learned all my bug groups over about a six week time. And you know, nobody does that today, right? You have somebody that takes you, right? And they start to teach you nuts and they put you in the right place. And if you don't have somebody like that, you generally don't go into fly fishing. And when you have somebody like that or an organization like this, it's attainable. There's no cost, no cost to the veteran at all. And for a volunteer, any costs that you incur are covered. And when we raise money, it gets sent all back to the national organization and then by receipts only and approval from the program lead, do you get paid back? But everybody gets made whole. And so it's just, it's very pure of intent. I always joke with sponsors that we'll never be the organization that ever embarrasses them 'cause we don't have any money. So that's a good point. Well, it's great to talk to you. And thank you so much for this time.
Katie
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on. I'd encourage anyone who either is a vet and wants to join or who just has a little extra free time in their week and wants to help out. It sounds like it's really easy to get involved. And I'd encourage anyone to take you up on that.
Eddy
Thank you.
Katie
All right, thank you, Eddie. All right, and that'll do it. As always, if you liked what you heard, go ahead and go over to the Wild Initiative Podcast. You can subscribe there and get my shows bi-weekly on Thursdays, as well as all of Sam's other shows throughout the week. You can also find all my episodes on fishuntamed.com in addition to backcountry fly fishing articles. You can find me on social media under my name, Katie Burgert on Go Wild or at fishuntamed on Instagram. And I will see you all back here in two weeks. All right. Bye, everybody.
Note:
These transcripts were created using AI to help make the podcast more accessible to all listeners, including those who are deaf or hard of hearing, or anyone who prefers to read rather than listen.
While I’ve reviewed each transcript to correct obvious errors, they may not be 100% accurate. In particular, moments with overlapping speech or unclear audio may not be transcribed word-for-word. However, every effort has been made to ensure that the core content and meaning are accurately represented.
Thank you for your understanding, and I hope these transcripts help you enjoy the podcast in the way that works best for you.